I would personally love it if a game was made with no stealth at all or very limited. I think WAR did a good job making stealth 30 seconds on with 30 second CD. Stealth is still a big advantage in WAR but not OP and at least you know when a rogue goes stealthed they only have 30 seconds to strike you or hide. Also it makes it much more strategic for the rogue because they have to use their stealth with prudence and judgement.
Rift sin rogues just remind me of WOW rogues. OP and cocky because of it.
Rift give assassin what is theirs ,perma stealth.Warhamemr was so good yeah ,and now maybe 100 k poeple , play that broked game.Open world pvp is about killing and not fare fights.Fare fights you make in duels.
A couple points.
Unless you have played WAR much you won't understand just how good the balance and pvp in that game really is. Balance isn't perfect but in general much better than any other mmo on the market. Say what you will but it's true especially when it comes to stealther mechanics. A short stealth time makes it strategic for both the rogue and the prey because it simply put ADDS a MECHANIC. Perma stealth just makes it too easy for the rogue and give the prey little to do besides wait to be attacked and possibly get griefed for as long as the rogue wants on his terms and time limit.
That being said. I understand the open world pvp is not supposed to be fair. I have a 80+ WL in WAR and trust me when I say if i find a RR 60 or lower it is bad news for them no matter how hard they try.
My point is still the same. So many stealth classes post these videos making it look like they are some bad ass when the truth is it's easy as pie to gank with a stealther. I have watched 5 different sin rogue videos in the last 24 hours after getting ganked a couple times last night and if i do play Rift I will probably roll a sin rogue so that I'm not the victim myself. I was hoping Rift would be like WAR and give no class perma stealth but I now see that they have.
But I make no bones about it it's easy to play a perma stealth rogue. Always has been and always will be.
There is something absurd with someone popping in and out thin air right in front of you.
You want to use stealth? Use the freaking environment, not some magical ability.
Necro's are crazy powerful. Necro's have an ability called sould purge that heals and dps at the same time both themselves and their pet. It hit's like a truck and heals for bucket loads.
I was somewhat shocked when I tried a necro. You better have an interupt ready when you see them channel towards you because not only are they going to heal to full but also they are going to burn you alive.
When I first used the soul purge I thought to myself "How did the dev's seriously think this ability is OK?" Soul purge makes a pyro mage look like a school girl when it comes to pvp.
I don't care what anyone says. Balancing RIFT is going to be a huge challenge with the variety involved. There are so many combo's that as soon as they balance one combo another will spring up with OMGWTFPWN in it's wake.
The one saving grace I see is that at least every class has the option to switch to any other class easily so as soon as one players learn to take advantage of a certain combo at least other players can switch to that combo to be competitive. It's like having flavor of the month but at least every one can jump onto the band wagon and not be stuck with a crappy class.
I have a necro/warlock and 0 point chloro 3rd soul, and I did ok against most people in pvp, if I had spell charge up, I was better off being jumped when I was fighting a mob. If someone jumps you while your cold, you are dead basically before you can really power up that soul purge for the most part. I always try to keep some charge and continually fight things, just to be ready when I know people are around.
I also get smashed by rogue classes, I often get maybe one spell of when jumped or none and am dead...People that know they are going to go pvp can get their pvp soul up, but someone that is out doing pve, they usually don't have a bunch of purges or anything else up.
Something I have not seen many people talk about, but it is an incentive that will keep people doing rifts/invasions/footholds, the rewards you get that are instant cast are very nice for pvp, not all can be used for pvp, but some can. At 27-30 I had a instant click piece that did 500 dmg and healed me for 500 instantly. It let me when some battles that I would not of won with my necro....You don't get a ton of them, and they have a long cool down, but it is somethingthat is very nice to have, and I imagine people will try to get an asortment of these for pvp....Their is dmg absorption type ones ect...
I don't think anyone really knows whats op, or not....You are the first that I have seen to say the necro is, they are very good at pve, but it seems most cloth casters don't seem to fair too well in open pvp from what I have seen. The biggest complain I have seen is rogue souls dmg, and cleric healing....So I mean thats 3 main types, out of the 4....So maybe its not that bad.
Necros have been OP in every MMORPG I tried. Not sure why but maybe because they are so popular so the devs intentionally make them powerful so not to dissapoint.
But back on topic. Good vid but I must say I am dissapointed by the animation of the Rogue. It looks like he is just wailing his arms rather than some nice choroeagraphic moves that we are getting spoiled with these days.
I guess you have never played AoC then where its counterpart was named demologist, the start of AoC, the demologist had been nerfed so much to shit it was basicly useless vs anything.
Necros have been OP in every MMORPG I tried. Not sure why but maybe because they are so popular so the devs intentionally make them powerful so not to dissapoint.
But back on topic. Good vid but I must say I am dissapointed by the animation of the Rogue. It looks like he is just wailing his arms rather than some nice choroeagraphic moves that we are getting spoiled with these days.
I guess you have never played AoC then where its counterpart was named demologist, the start of AoC, the demologist had been nerfed so much to shit it was basicly useless vs anything.
uh what? AoC has a Necro class and it is, or atleast was when I played, very powerful both in PvE and PvP.
I could melt 4 levels higher MOB in couple of seconds. Much higher DPS than anything i tried in Rift. And has heals too.
Yet there were players (clerics) that stood trough full onslaught - and i didnt see their health bar move by a little.
And they could kill me in couple of hits...
Rift has many things going for it. But PVP balance is not one of them.
Pvp balance is a myth..it does not exist anywere, assassins might easy kill some specs and die to other specs its working as intended, there are thousands of variables in skills, spells, talents, souls, classes its impossible to balance the pvp to every class can kill any other class...
Its rock paper scissors
Its not
Sin can easily get drop on Mage , or another Rogue.
But there are class combination in Rift (like one i mentioned before) that are seriously OP - unlike any MMO I ever played
It is not meant to be balanced for 1v1. Classes/roles have counters to them, so a cleric will likely survive against some classes and kill them easily, but a voidknight will stomp a healer (as it will kill their mana pool in 10 seconds).
Remember, this game is made for group pvp, none of this pansy 1v1 class balancing.
Yes and no
1 voidknight can shut down 1 cleric
But you need 2 to shut down 2
Now
Both without mana have nothing else than their AC and attack power. Yet cleric hits and tanks as good as any warrior
So 15 clerics would easily dominate 15 void knights , and for that mater , anything that is put in their way.
That is the failure of Rift class balance
Soon you will see only clerics on PVP battlefields
I smashed some clerics on my necro, and they were equal or 1-2 levels higher than me....I also had close to full spell charge at the time, but I was making sure to fight mobs, so I would have better survivability. They couldn't outheal my damage. Was it a good pvper? No idea... I also lost to a cleric that was 2 levels higher than me, but had them close a couple times....Rogues usually smash me....I killed a warrior, but I also used a rift reward to tip it into my favor, but the guy was a little higher level.
I have been decent against everyone buy rogues, and they irk me, but if I am honest with myself, usually a rogue is supposed to be the anti-cloth caster class.
Necros have been OP in every MMORPG I tried. Not sure why but maybe because they are so popular so the devs intentionally make them powerful so not to dissapoint.
But back on topic. Good vid but I must say I am dissapointed by the animation of the Rogue. It looks like he is just wailing his arms rather than some nice choroeagraphic moves that we are getting spoiled with these days.
I guess you have never played AoC then where its counterpart was named demologist, the start of AoC, the demologist had been nerfed so much to shit it was basicly useless vs anything.
uh what? AoC has a Necro class and it is, or atleast was when I played, very powerful both in PvE and PvP.
When the game first got released, no the demologist which relied on dots and the pet was awefully shit and unplayable at best.
Though im not even gonna buy Rift my self, the game bores me to death, tired of lvl'ing up games with go here X and kill X type of mobs and return quest, rince and repeat until your endgame lvl.
Rift brings nothing new to the game , except maybe a little for the soul tree's where you can choose between so many different but that still just looks like the talent tree's of WoW with some modification, graphic looks abit like Warhammer Online, has abit of AoC as well in it , and abit of WoW, not to forget one of the developers came from Mythic who made Warhammer.
Sin can easily get drop on Mage , or another Rogue.
But there are class combination in Rift (like one i mentioned before) that are seriously OP - unlike any MMO I ever played
Nothing is op man ,i give you a kind advice "learn 2 play" first,than talk.You just dont know nothing about class balance and who is op or not.
Except you only died once for every 8 fights. Doesn't exactly sound even. 4 deaths every 8 fights would mean other classes are equal.
l2Rogue is more like it.
It's obvious with that music in that vid that you were all full of yourself thinking you're so awesome for using stealth and stuns. The video would've been more compelling if you weren't all about yourself and included times when you died, showing that there is some sort of strategy or gameplay involved rather than just relying on rogue tactics.
Is there any class you had trouble with consistantly? I remember in WoW when playing rogue warriors would win against me about as often as I beat them. Any classes like that in this game that can compete in 1v1 or do you just gank your way through all of them?
Same "constant-circle-strafe+jumpin-kiddie-pvp" (=mostly jumping clothies who quest) with 1:1 WoW rogue gameplay we've seen on warcraftmovies for 5+yrs.
Originally posted by VoIgore Same "constant-circle-strafe+jumpin-kiddie-pvp" (=mostly jumping clothies who quest) with 1:1 WoW rogue gameplay we've seen on warcraftmovies for 5+yrs. Next one please.
lol'ed.
i did not want to say/comment, but i had the same thing in mind when i first watched the video.
im reading a lot of "this" needs to be balanced. Trion is NOT balancing classes for PvP. they are balancing classes for PvE. Even then there is a video from a fan site that did an interview and the guy they interview said there will be OP specs but oh well and hopes people find them.
i remember reading how sabas were over powered, my ranger kills faster then the saba can. now with sabas charges being able to be dispelled they are even weaker. The only thing i find odd is how much my ranged weapons are parried, not dodges or missed but parried. thats some fast skills to parry a gun or bow.
I would personally love it if a game was made with no stealth at all or very limited. I think WAR did a good job making stealth 30 seconds on with 30 second CD. Stealth is still a big advantage in WAR but not OP and at least you know when a rogue goes stealthed they only have 30 seconds to strike you or hide. Also it makes it much more strategic for the rogue because they have to use their stealth with prudence and judgement.
Rift sin rogues just remind me of WOW rogues. OP and cocky because of it.
Rift give assassin what is theirs ,perma stealth.Warhamemr was so good yeah ,and now maybe 100 k poeple , play that broked game.Open world pvp is about killing and not fare fights.Fare fights you make in duels.
A couple points.
Unless you have played WAR much you won't understand just how good the balance and pvp in that game really is. Balance isn't perfect but in general much better than any other mmo on the market. Say what you will but it's true especially when it comes to stealther mechanics. A short stealth time makes it strategic for both the rogue and the prey because it simply put ADDS a MECHANIC. Perma stealth just makes it too easy for the rogue and give the prey little to do besides wait to be attacked and possibly get griefed for as long as the rogue wants on his terms and time limit.
That being said. I understand the open world pvp is not supposed to be fair. I have a 80+ WL in WAR and trust me when I say if i find a RR 60 or lower it is bad news for them no matter how hard they try.
My point is still the same. So many stealth classes post these videos making it look like they are some bad ass when the truth is it's easy as pie to gank with a stealther. I have watched 5 different sin rogue videos in the last 24 hours after getting ganked a couple times last night and if i do play Rift I will probably roll a sin rogue so that I'm not the victim myself. I was hoping Rift would be like WAR and give no class perma stealth but I now see that they have.
But I make no bones about it it's easy to play a perma stealth rogue. Always has been and always will be.
Guild Wars would be the most balanced PvP game to exist. thats all its really there for.
I was talking to a buddy the other day and we were trying to figure out which was the first MMO to give rogue's invisibility instead of stealth. I think it was DAoC but I might be wrong.
The current state of "stealth" in MMOs is certainly nothing like I imagined it back in the pen&paper days. It made sense that casters had invisibility since they were extremely squishy and that rogue's had a lesser version since they weren't.
Rogue stealth shouldn't be this ridiculous "always on" invisibility. They should be hard to detect but detectable nevertheless without having to resort to silly gimmicks like fireworks.
Say what you will about WAR and all their troubles but at least they made an attempt by making stealth a temporary ability. That (along with achievements, PQs, and melee clerics with "splash" heals) should be what gets copied by new games.
It's disappointing that Rift is also catering to the chicken-shit griefers out there by giving us WOW rogues.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
This reminds me... I was talking to a buddy the other day and we were trying to figure out which was the first MMO to give rogue's invisibility instead of stealth. I think it was DAoC but I might be wrong. The current state of "stealth" in MMOs is certainly nothing like I imagined it back in the pen&paper days. It made sense that casters had invisibility since they were extremely squishy and that rogue's had a lesser version since they weren't. Rogue stealth shouldn't be this ridiculous "always on" invisibility. They should be hard to detect but detectable nevertheless without having to resort to silly gimmicks like fireworks. Say what you will about WAR and all their troubles but at least they made an attempt by making stealth a temporary ability. That (along with achievements, PQs, and melee clerics with "splash" heals) should be what gets copied by new games. It's disappointing that Rift is also catering to the chicken-shit griefers out there by giving us WOW rogues.
Yeah it's weird when you think about it. Basically WoW-type rogues get invisibility, the ability to reenter stealth in battle (not sure if Rift rogues can do that), top-notch CC, top-notch damage, and let them wear medium armor.
This reminds me... I was talking to a buddy the other day and we were trying to figure out which was the first MMO to give rogue's invisibility instead of stealth. I think it was DAoC but I might be wrong. The current state of "stealth" in MMOs is certainly nothing like I imagined it back in the pen&paper days. It made sense that casters had invisibility since they were extremely squishy and that rogue's had a lesser version since they weren't. Rogue stealth shouldn't be this ridiculous "always on" invisibility. They should be hard to detect but detectable nevertheless without having to resort to silly gimmicks like fireworks. Say what you will about WAR and all their troubles but at least they made an attempt by making stealth a temporary ability. That (along with achievements, PQs, and melee clerics with "splash" heals) should be what gets copied by new games. It's disappointing that Rift is also catering to the chicken-shit griefers out there by giving us WOW rogues.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
When I was playing the beta the other night and I did get ganked twice by this pair of rogues they logged onto their defiant toons to taunt us in region chat...............no one responded and they said "You guys are no fun."
Can they be more stereo typical griefer/rogues? This is exactly the kind of player rouges are made for. At least Trion only made 2 rogues have access to stealth and only 1 with perma stealth, though you know every kiddy will roll a sin so they can think they're the shiznit in there own little mind.
I would gladly pay an extra 5 dollars a month to play rift without perma stealth rogues.
I remember when WAR advertised that they would have no stealth classes..........I guess the griefers have enough market pull to make sure every game gets a cowards class huh?
Personally I have never rolled a rogue as a main toon. I plan on playing Rift for a month or 3 just to take time up until GW2 comes out where I will most certainly play a Elementalist or Guardian. I am seriously contemplating rolling a Sin rogue though tomorrow just to be the griefer instead of the griefed for once in my life. At least I won't be that rogue that kills a clothy over and over again. (I killed the rogue once while he tried ganking a cleric and he camped me at a quest hub for 10 minutes) I'll have a heart unlike most 16 year old angy adolescents. Just saying.
This reminds me... I was talking to a buddy the other day and we were trying to figure out which was the first MMO to give rogue's invisibility instead of stealth. I think it was DAoC but I might be wrong. The current state of "stealth" in MMOs is certainly nothing like I imagined it back in the pen&paper days. It made sense that casters had invisibility since they were extremely squishy and that rogue's had a lesser version since they weren't. Rogue stealth shouldn't be this ridiculous "always on" invisibility. They should be hard to detect but detectable nevertheless without having to resort to silly gimmicks like fireworks. Say what you will about WAR and all their troubles but at least they made an attempt by making stealth a temporary ability. That (along with achievements, PQs, and melee clerics with "splash" heals) should be what gets copied by new games. It's disappointing that Rift is also catering to the chicken-shit griefers out there by giving us WOW rogues.
Yeah it's weird when you think about it. Basically WoW-type rogues get invisibility, the ability to reenter stealth in battle (not sure if Rift rogues can do that), top-notch CC, top-notch damage, and let them wear medium armor.
Yes, a fully specced out Assasin rogue in Rift can spec into an ability that let's them re-stealth in combat.............................I just don't see why they have to give people obvious griefing tools.
Now not only can I gank people with impunity but I can also slip away if I start to lose and deny the defendent the kill. Then I can try again and again harassing the person over and over.
I played WOW years ago when I was young and had a rogue stun me and stealth over and over again for several minutes. Nice guy i'm sure.
I played WOW years ago when I was young and had a rogue stun me and stealth over and over again for several minutes. Nice guy i'm sure.
A WOW rogue can indeed sap you over and over without breaking stealth--he doesn't even have to restealth... I've had it happen to me many times when there were 2 or 3 of us holding an objective in a battleground... at least it was nice of him to let us know he was there...
But seriously... there is all this talk in all PvP games about a type of balance where class "A" can easily kill class "B" but class "B" can easily kill class "C" and "C" can kill "A"... there seems to be a lot of buy-in for that kind of system. So....
If a rogue can have always-on invisibility wouldn't it make sense for some other class to have an always-on detect rogue ability? Makes sense to me. Of course rogues would say "So what's the point of stealth then?" to which I would say "exactly."
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I can take the most underpowered class and make it a PvP king in a PvP video. I just edit out the million times I lose and keep the 20 victories I do get. Then add some homo'erotic techno from last years gay parade and go with it
Its not Sin can easily get drop on Mage , or another Rogue. But there are class combination in Rift (like one i mentioned before) that are seriously OP - unlike any MMO I ever played
Nothing is op man ,i give you a kind advice "learn 2 play" first,than talk.You just dont know nothing about class balance and who is op or not.
Except you only died once for every 8 fights. Doesn't exactly sound even. 4 deaths every 8 fights would mean other classes are equal. l2Rogue is more like it. It's obvious with that music in that vid that you were all full of yourself thinking you're so awesome for using stealth and stuns. The video would've been more compelling if you weren't all about yourself and included times when you died, showing that there is some sort of strategy or gameplay involved rather than just relying on rogue tactics. Is there any class you had trouble with consistantly? I remember in WoW when playing rogue warriors would win against me about as often as I beat them. Any classes like that in this game that can compete in 1v1 or do you just gank your way through all of them?
Plate warriros and clerics put me the most problems especial the rb/vb with that op flamespear/discharge. I died allot of times of course but i killed more than 200 people in open world just in beta 7.All classes have potential to kill me if they know what they doing.
Games with stealth just need better stealth detection algorithms. Stealth checks every second, with detection bonuses based on distance and position. At a certain range, if you are facing the rogue directly, detection should be about 95%. A rogue directly behind you, 5%. A rogue should never be able to count on standing 3 meters in front of someone, undetected. There should always be a small chance that if they sneak up perfectly, they will be discovered.
Once you detect a rogue, they should remain transluscent to you unless they retreat beyond, say, 15 meters. The rogue should not know that they have gone transluscent, unless they can guess it based on actions of their target.
That makes the game more exciting for the rogue, introducing some risk, and gives players who are alert to their surroundings or aware of the presense of the rogue a chance to counter through vigilance.
Another option would be to give everyone a Vigilance channeled ability. Focus all your attention on doing nothing but detecting a stealther and you get a large bonus for detection. This would still allow Rogues to sneak up and strike totally unawares foes, but then make it harder to hide from someone who knows you are there.
I was playing a warrior on the Defiant side and was jumped by a Guardian Rogue player and I just pummeled him to death - low armor is what hilled him. My Build was Reaver/Champion/Warlord. Even though he stunned me I was able to out DPS him after the stun wore off. He was 2 lvls higher than me.
If rogues would have more armor, then yes they would be OP but since you can kill them with paper (OK insert sarcasm here) I am not sure it is a big deal.
Games with stealth just need better stealth detection algorithms. Stealth checks every second, with detection bonuses based on distance and position. At a certain range, if you are facing the rogue directly, detection should be about 95%. A rogue directly behind you, 5%. A rogue should never be able to count on standing 3 meters in front of someone, undetected. There should always be a small chance that if they sneak up perfectly, they will be discovered.
Once you detect a rogue, they should remain transluscent to you unless they retreat beyond, say, 15 meters. The rogue should not know that they have gone transluscent, unless they can guess it based on actions of their target.
That makes the game more exciting for the rogue, introducing some risk, and gives players who are alert to their surroundings or aware of the presense of the rogue a chance to counter through vigilance.
Another option would be to give everyone a Vigilance channeled ability. Focus all your attention on doing nothing but detecting a stealther and you get a large bonus for detection. This would still allow Rogues to sneak up and strike totally unawares foes, but then make it harder to hide from someone who knows you are there.
I like these ideas. For the most part. Post em on the main forums - Trion is the kind of team that will consider it.
Games with stealth just need better stealth detection algorithms. Stealth checks every second, with detection bonuses based on distance and position. At a certain range, if you are facing the rogue directly, detection should be about 95%. A rogue directly behind you, 5%. A rogue should never be able to count on standing 3 meters in front of someone, undetected. There should always be a small chance that if they sneak up perfectly, they will be discovered. Once you detect a rogue, they should remain transluscent to you unless they retreat beyond, say, 15 meters. The rogue should not know that they have gone transluscent, unless they can guess it based on actions of their target. That makes the game more exciting for the rogue, introducing some risk, and gives players who are alert to their surroundings or aware of the presense of the rogue a chance to counter through vigilance. Another option would be to give everyone a Vigilance channeled ability. Focus all your attention on doing nothing but detecting a stealther and you get a large bonus for detection. This would still allow Rogues to sneak up and strike totally unawares foes, but then make it harder to hide from someone who knows you are there.
I like these ideas. For the most part. Post em on the main forums - Trion is the kind of team that will consider it.
You can see the rogue in stealth if he is in front of you like 1m.Stop the cry i wait you on Clodborne pvp EU to hunt you moar.
Comments
There is something absurd with someone popping in and out thin air right in front of you.
You want to use stealth? Use the freaking environment, not some magical ability.
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Wait until the real army start using camo suits that can do just that. Prototypes so far, but not impossible any more hehe. And no magic involved!
I have a necro/warlock and 0 point chloro 3rd soul, and I did ok against most people in pvp, if I had spell charge up, I was better off being jumped when I was fighting a mob. If someone jumps you while your cold, you are dead basically before you can really power up that soul purge for the most part. I always try to keep some charge and continually fight things, just to be ready when I know people are around.
I also get smashed by rogue classes, I often get maybe one spell of when jumped or none and am dead...People that know they are going to go pvp can get their pvp soul up, but someone that is out doing pve, they usually don't have a bunch of purges or anything else up.
Something I have not seen many people talk about, but it is an incentive that will keep people doing rifts/invasions/footholds, the rewards you get that are instant cast are very nice for pvp, not all can be used for pvp, but some can. At 27-30 I had a instant click piece that did 500 dmg and healed me for 500 instantly. It let me when some battles that I would not of won with my necro....You don't get a ton of them, and they have a long cool down, but it is somethingthat is very nice to have, and I imagine people will try to get an asortment of these for pvp....Their is dmg absorption type ones ect...
I don't think anyone really knows whats op, or not....You are the first that I have seen to say the necro is, they are very good at pve, but it seems most cloth casters don't seem to fair too well in open pvp from what I have seen. The biggest complain I have seen is rogue souls dmg, and cleric healing....So I mean thats 3 main types, out of the 4....So maybe its not that bad.
I guess you have never played AoC then where its counterpart was named demologist, the start of AoC, the demologist had been nerfed so much to shit it was basicly useless vs anything.
List of SOE lies
uh what? AoC has a Necro class and it is, or atleast was when I played, very powerful both in PvE and PvP.
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I smashed some clerics on my necro, and they were equal or 1-2 levels higher than me....I also had close to full spell charge at the time, but I was making sure to fight mobs, so I would have better survivability. They couldn't outheal my damage. Was it a good pvper? No idea... I also lost to a cleric that was 2 levels higher than me, but had them close a couple times....Rogues usually smash me....I killed a warrior, but I also used a rift reward to tip it into my favor, but the guy was a little higher level.
I have been decent against everyone buy rogues, and they irk me, but if I am honest with myself, usually a rogue is supposed to be the anti-cloth caster class.
When the game first got released, no the demologist which relied on dots and the pet was awefully shit and unplayable at best.
Though im not even gonna buy Rift my self, the game bores me to death, tired of lvl'ing up games with go here X and kill X type of mobs and return quest, rince and repeat until your endgame lvl.
Rift brings nothing new to the game , except maybe a little for the soul tree's where you can choose between so many different but that still just looks like the talent tree's of WoW with some modification, graphic looks abit like Warhammer Online, has abit of AoC as well in it , and abit of WoW, not to forget one of the developers came from Mythic who made Warhammer.
List of SOE lies
The PvP killed he PvE....(in terms of nerfs)
partly reason why i quit WoW, constant nerfs/tweaks, to classes because a group of people whined about it.
Except you only died once for every 8 fights. Doesn't exactly sound even. 4 deaths every 8 fights would mean other classes are equal.
l2Rogue is more like it.
It's obvious with that music in that vid that you were all full of yourself thinking you're so awesome for using stealth and stuns. The video would've been more compelling if you weren't all about yourself and included times when you died, showing that there is some sort of strategy or gameplay involved rather than just relying on rogue tactics.
Is there any class you had trouble with consistantly? I remember in WoW when playing rogue warriors would win against me about as often as I beat them. Any classes like that in this game that can compete in 1v1 or do you just gank your way through all of them?
Same "constant-circle-strafe+jumpin-kiddie-pvp" (=mostly jumping clothies who quest) with 1:1 WoW rogue gameplay we've seen on warcraftmovies for 5+yrs.
Next one please.
Any 1 care to explain what the use of this thread is?
1. Are we supposed to debate strategies used in the movies?
2. Classes?
3. Spec?
4. Gear?
For the love of God tell me what this thread is about?!
lol'ed.
i did not want to say/comment, but i had the same thing in mind when i first watched the video.
im reading a lot of "this" needs to be balanced. Trion is NOT balancing classes for PvP. they are balancing classes for PvE. Even then there is a video from a fan site that did an interview and the guy they interview said there will be OP specs but oh well and hopes people find them.
i remember reading how sabas were over powered, my ranger kills faster then the saba can. now with sabas charges being able to be dispelled they are even weaker. The only thing i find odd is how much my ranged weapons are parried, not dodges or missed but parried. thats some fast skills to parry a gun or bow.
Guild Wars would be the most balanced PvP game to exist. thats all its really there for.
I was talking to a buddy the other day and we were trying to figure out which was the first MMO to give rogue's invisibility instead of stealth. I think it was DAoC but I might be wrong.
The current state of "stealth" in MMOs is certainly nothing like I imagined it back in the pen&paper days. It made sense that casters had invisibility since they were extremely squishy and that rogue's had a lesser version since they weren't.
Rogue stealth shouldn't be this ridiculous "always on" invisibility. They should be hard to detect but detectable nevertheless without having to resort to silly gimmicks like fireworks.
Say what you will about WAR and all their troubles but at least they made an attempt by making stealth a temporary ability. That (along with achievements, PQs, and melee clerics with "splash" heals) should be what gets copied by new games.
It's disappointing that Rift is also catering to the chicken-shit griefers out there by giving us WOW rogues.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Yeah it's weird when you think about it. Basically WoW-type rogues get invisibility, the ability to reenter stealth in battle (not sure if Rift rogues can do that), top-notch CC, top-notch damage, and let them wear medium armor.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
When I was playing the beta the other night and I did get ganked twice by this pair of rogues they logged onto their defiant toons to taunt us in region chat...............no one responded and they said "You guys are no fun."
Can they be more stereo typical griefer/rogues? This is exactly the kind of player rouges are made for. At least Trion only made 2 rogues have access to stealth and only 1 with perma stealth, though you know every kiddy will roll a sin so they can think they're the shiznit in there own little mind.
I would gladly pay an extra 5 dollars a month to play rift without perma stealth rogues.
I remember when WAR advertised that they would have no stealth classes..........I guess the griefers have enough market pull to make sure every game gets a cowards class huh?
Personally I have never rolled a rogue as a main toon. I plan on playing Rift for a month or 3 just to take time up until GW2 comes out where I will most certainly play a Elementalist or Guardian. I am seriously contemplating rolling a Sin rogue though tomorrow just to be the griefer instead of the griefed for once in my life. At least I won't be that rogue that kills a clothy over and over again. (I killed the rogue once while he tried ganking a cleric and he camped me at a quest hub for 10 minutes) I'll have a heart unlike most 16 year old angy adolescents. Just saying.
Yes, a fully specced out Assasin rogue in Rift can spec into an ability that let's them re-stealth in combat.............................I just don't see why they have to give people obvious griefing tools.
Now not only can I gank people with impunity but I can also slip away if I start to lose and deny the defendent the kill. Then I can try again and again harassing the person over and over.
I played WOW years ago when I was young and had a rogue stun me and stealth over and over again for several minutes. Nice guy i'm sure.
A WOW rogue can indeed sap you over and over without breaking stealth--he doesn't even have to restealth... I've had it happen to me many times when there were 2 or 3 of us holding an objective in a battleground... at least it was nice of him to let us know he was there...
But seriously... there is all this talk in all PvP games about a type of balance where class "A" can easily kill class "B" but class "B" can easily kill class "C" and "C" can kill "A"... there seems to be a lot of buy-in for that kind of system. So....
If a rogue can have always-on invisibility wouldn't it make sense for some other class to have an always-on detect rogue ability? Makes sense to me. Of course rogues would say "So what's the point of stealth then?" to which I would say "exactly."
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
PvP videos are pointless.
I can take the most underpowered class and make it a PvP king in a PvP video. I just edit out the million times I lose and keep the 20 victories I do get. Then add some homo'erotic techno from last years gay parade and go with it
Plate warriros and clerics put me the most problems especial the rb/vb with that op flamespear/discharge. I died allot of times of course but i killed more than 200 people in open world just in beta 7.All classes have potential to kill me if they know what they doing.
Everything can be resolved with violence.
Games with stealth just need better stealth detection algorithms. Stealth checks every second, with detection bonuses based on distance and position. At a certain range, if you are facing the rogue directly, detection should be about 95%. A rogue directly behind you, 5%. A rogue should never be able to count on standing 3 meters in front of someone, undetected. There should always be a small chance that if they sneak up perfectly, they will be discovered.
Once you detect a rogue, they should remain transluscent to you unless they retreat beyond, say, 15 meters. The rogue should not know that they have gone transluscent, unless they can guess it based on actions of their target.
That makes the game more exciting for the rogue, introducing some risk, and gives players who are alert to their surroundings or aware of the presense of the rogue a chance to counter through vigilance.
Another option would be to give everyone a Vigilance channeled ability. Focus all your attention on doing nothing but detecting a stealther and you get a large bonus for detection. This would still allow Rogues to sneak up and strike totally unawares foes, but then make it harder to hide from someone who knows you are there.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
I was playing a warrior on the Defiant side and was jumped by a Guardian Rogue player and I just pummeled him to death - low armor is what hilled him. My Build was Reaver/Champion/Warlord. Even though he stunned me I was able to out DPS him after the stun wore off. He was 2 lvls higher than me.
If rogues would have more armor, then yes they would be OP but since you can kill them with paper (OK insert sarcasm here) I am not sure it is a big deal.
I like these ideas. For the most part. Post em on the main forums - Trion is the kind of team that will consider it.
You can see the rogue in stealth if he is in front of you like 1m.Stop the cry i wait you on Clodborne pvp EU to hunt you moar.
Everything can be resolved with violence.