Sales really determine quality. That's why all the shitty blockbuster movies get big money in the box office, while all the good independent movies are released in small, art theaters? You mentallity makes me cringe. I'm certainly not a fanboi of any game right now. I just prefer it over Kesha and The Black Eyed Peas.... I mean Rift.
Nonsense, don't put words in my mouth with strawman arguments that I never said.
What I'm saying is that fanboism is fanboism no matter which game it's about, and that one game's hater is another game's fanboi. People tend to mix up 'personal taste' with 'quality'.
As for the sales/sub figures and the poll, yes, to me it'll be interesting to see in how much the mix of preferences of the mmorpg.com community will compare to the larger MMO community. I'm pretty sure there is a difference, the only question I'm curious about is how much different.
EDIT: oh, in case you thought my former post was a direct comment on your post that came right before, it was not. My former post was a general observation.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
While Rift ist likely the more polished game on release, I'd have to say Xsyon. Simple because I can see something novel and interesting coming out of that game; something that can benefit the genre as a whole. Rift on the other hand contributes nothing, imho. And I am old enough to remember the times when games where not all about getting better items in order to get into dungeons to get better items to then get better items... so the concept of Xsyon appeals to me, polish or no polish. If enough people show their support (financially), this game can turn out pretty good, I reckon.
I play LOTRO in subscription mode. I can't stand the free mode limitations. Hopefully AoC will stay subscription mode as well, or otherwise it'll follow a hybrid model as LOTRO. EQ2 I subscribe as well. The rest, I don't care.
Yep no question AOC will follow the same "freemium" model
And it will be good.
You can not believe how many players are running now in champions
Heh, the irony. Xsyon fanbois appear to be even bigger fanbois than Rift or DCUO ones. People seriously lack the ability to self reflect.
It wil be interesting to compare the poll result with the actual sales and sub numbers of Rift and Xsyon, I guess we'll see how much the general MMO playerbase differs from the small secluded group of MMO posters here on the mmorpg.com forum.
Lol , you really can't compare those two games not even in terms of what constitutes "success" subscription-wise.
Considering the production costs of those two games, 500k subs for Rift would be a so-so result... while the 5k or so Xysom got is a massive success that took the devs by surprise and now they're having to upgrade servers and whatnot.
Imo this 40% vs 20% result is a massive win for Xsyon considering that those two games are not even in the same league by far. Xsyon never tried to be an AAA title - it is a niche game and it's devs are realistic with that. They were never aiming for mils of subs and thats why their production costs are so low.
Lemme put it this way. Which movie is more succesful - indie production which costs $500k but returns 20 mil or a hollywood blockbuster costing $200 mil which grosses 300? One gives you 4000% return and the other 150%... Even though the blockbuster made "more" money I know which movie I'd choose to invest in.
As for "Xyson rabid fanbois"- I don't see em. Where are they? Show them to me please? I mean, Xyson is a mostly unfinished and work-in-progress game that manages to do some basic features very well but both the devs and "rabid fanbois" pretty much admit it. I never saw any post anywhere, either on the official site or the forums where anyone claimed that the game is anything other than what it is. No one is claiming that it is the "be-all and end-all", no one is saying that it is perfect in any way. I really can't understand the hate towards these fictional "rabid fanbois". I thought that you're maybe shilling for Rift but there is no competition between these two games cause they're simply in completely different leagues/genres whatever - no one is going to leave one for the other just like no one is going to stop drinking Coke for eating hamburgers. So what's the score here?
Lol , you really can't compare those two games not even in terms of what constitutes "success" subscription-wise.
Considering the production costs of those two games, 500k subs for Rift would be a so-so result... while the 5k or so Xysom got is a massive success that took the devs by surprise and now they're having to upgrade servers and whatnot.
Imo this 40% vs 20% result is a massive win for Xsyon considering that those two games are not even in the same league by far. Xsyon never tried to be an AAA title - it is a niche game and it's devs are realistic with that. They were never aiming for mils of subs and thats why their production costs are so low.
Lemme put it this way. Which movie is more succesful - indie production which costs $500k but returns 20 mil or a hollywood blockbuster costing $200 mil which grosses 300? One gives you 4000% return and the other 150%... Even though the blockbuster made "more" money I know which movie I'd choose to invest in.
As for "Xyson rabid fanbois"- I don't see em. Where are they? Show them to me please? I mean, Xyson is a mostly unfinished and work-in-progress game that manages to do some basic features very well but both the devs and "rabid fanbois" pretty much admit it. I never saw any post anywhere, either on the official site or the forums where anyone claimed that the game is anything other than what it is. No one is claiming that it is the "be-all and end-all", no one is saying that it is perfect in any way. I really can't understand the hate towards these fictional "rabid fanbois". I thought that you're maybe shilling for Rift but there is no competition between these two games cause they're simply in completely different leagues/genres whatever - no one is going to leave one for the other just like no one is going to stop drinking Coke for eating hamburgers. So what's the score here?
I can compare whatever I like, especially if it's measurable things like sales and sub numbers. The fact that you don't/want to compare like that doesn't mean that I shouldn't.
Having a huge diff between the poll numbers here on mmorpg.com and actual sales/subs means to me that the proportion of sandbox gaming posters on mmorpg.com is far larger than the proportion of sandbox gamers in the total of the MMORPG player base. Which is hardly surprising, since this is the place where a lot of disgruntled, jaded MMO gamers gather in search of a new game, and the sandboxing gaming crowd is on average the most disgruntled and frustrated one, having been the least serviced the last 4-5 years. And it sure explains the direction of a lot of discussions and debates: a lot of this crowd dislikes themepark games and would love nothing more than if that subgenre as a whole would fail so that their flavor of MMO games can have its spotlight as main MMO subgenre.
As for 'fanboism', you're right, I see little true biased, blind favoritism among Xsyon fans... just as little true biased, blind favoritism as is present among Rift fans, DCUO fans, SWTOR fans, WoW fans, etc. 'fanbois' is just a term haters often unjustly throw around describing normal fans of a game they themselves dislike, hence the quotes I use as a term that others are eager to call regular fans so. Or let me change your quote into something that clarifies it that's equally valid:
As for "Rift/DCUO rabid fanbois"- I don't see em. Where are they? Show them to me please? I mean, Rift/DCUO is a mostly themepark styled game that provides themepark MMO fun in its own way but both the devs and "rabid fanbois" pretty much admit it. No one is claiming that it is the "be-all and end-all", no one is saying that it is perfect in any way. I really can't understand the hate towards these fictional "rabid fanbois".
There you go. People's fannish (or 'fanboish') liking a game is equal of nature and intensity, no more, no less, whether it's Xsyon, Rift, DCUO, WoW or any other MMO.
The fact that you'd even think yet again that I'm shilling for Rift is just plain funny. If I was one of those people that so hastily like to judge themepark fans as 'fanbois' I'd say that such kind of thinking is a clear fanboi sign. But I'm not, so now it's just merely funny how off the mark that thought is.
Originally posted by Lobotomist
Originally posted by Xasapis
I play LOTRO in subscription mode. I can't stand the free mode limitations. Hopefully AoC will stay subscription mode as well, or otherwise it'll follow a hybrid model as LOTRO. EQ2 I subscribe as well. The rest, I don't care.
Yep no question AOC will follow the same "freemium" model
And it will be good.
You can not believe how many players are running now in champions
Although there's no question that going 'freemium' will boost AoC subs, I fail to see how this could be done like LotrO or EQ2. AoC has a lot less regions and quest content than those 2 games.
I don't know how CO is doing it, btw. Just gone F2P with an itemshop?
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Yes, you go ahead and compare the subscriptions numbers of the two games, make sure you compare the sales & marketing budgets of the two developers too.
Yes, you go ahead and compare the subscriptions numbers of the two games, make sure you compare the sales & marketing budgets of the two developers too.
That’s because there isn’t one. It is, however, mildly amusing that someone would use subscription numbers as a metric of quality and success whilst paying no attention to the enormously differing sales & marketing budgets of the two respective developers.
That’s because there isn’t one. It is, however, mildly amusing that someone would use subscription numbers as a metric of quality and success whilst paying no attention to the enormously differing sales & marketing budgets of the two respective developers.
Sounds a bit defensive and typical fan behaviour to me. Mind you, nothing wrong or bad with that: you see it in fans of Rift, DCUO, WoW, Xsyon or any game, the need to defend their choice of game against 'attacks'.
I find it mildly amusing though that someone feels the need to justify or explain away any difference in sub numbers by pointing towards the 'enormous' difference in sales and marketing budget: as if Trion is currently spending millions on advertising or as if when millions of dollars was spent on marketing Xsyon, that Xsyon then would suddenly have 500k-1m subs after launch. It's mildly amusing, because all that really interested me was the difference between the mmorpg.com community and the larger overal mmo gaming community in their taste, the former not being representative for the latter.
However, the OP was about who would choose what to play, the OP poster being slightly biased towards Xsyon, but nevertheless, let's go back to the OP topic, shall we?
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I hope Xsyon does not go the way of Roma Victor - barely playable until Exodus. Plus both games are quite expensive (Box price+standard P2P)... ok, still better than P2P+cash shop.
I am currently busy with Uncharted Waters online, so I may skip the release day of both games.
there is no reason to compare it to the Shannara books. a better analogy would be something like the movie 'The Postman', to compare Xyson to.
I am one of the few people that actually really liked The Postman.
I love the idea of Xsyon, but I'm very concerned about the graphics and server stability and whatnot. It looks like the kind of indie game that could either be great in 6 months or just totally fail, kind of like Mortal Online.
I really wish a big gaming company would make a medium to high budget sandbox game. It's obvious the demand is there.
I'll be keeping up on it but in the meantime I'll probably be playing Rift.
Number 1 thing with games is they have to work. Then you can get into how inventive or fun they are. Rift will definately work. Xsyon- I'm not sure. I'm very wary of another Mortal Online debacle.
I really wish a big gaming company would make a medium to high budget sandbox game. It's obvious the demand is there.
I think there is. Themepark design philosophy has its limits and can only go so far. Of the currently available sandbox MMO's besides EVE, Xsyon looks to have the most potential to fill that niche and satisfy a certain part of sandbox gamers, since SWG can't do that anymore.
However, it's not an AAA title. I suspect ArcheAge and World of Darkness might answer to those requirements of being an AAA sandbox title.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Sounds a bit defensive and typical fan behaviour to me. Mind you, nothing wrong or bad with that: you see it in fans of Rift, DCUO, WoW, Xsyon or any game, the need to defend their choice of game against 'attacks'.
I find it mildly amusing though that someone feels the need to justify or explain away any difference in sub numbers by pointing towards the 'enormous' difference in sales and marketing budget: as if Trion is currently spending millions on advertising or as if when millions of dollars was spent on marketing Xsyon, that Xsyon then would suddenly have 500k-1m subs after launch. It's mildly amusing, because all that really interested me was the difference between the mmorpg.com community and the larger overal mmo gaming community in their taste, the former not being representative for the latter.
However, the OP was about who would choose what to play, the OP poster being slightly biased towards Xsyon, but nevertheless, let's go back to the OP topic, shall we?
The lady doth protest too much. You sound very defensive and typically fanboy-esque in nature. Mind you, there’s nothing wrong or bad with that. You see it in fans of Rift, EQ, WoW, Xsyon or any game, the need to defend their choice of game against 'attacks'.
Mildly amusing that someone cannot simply recognise the impact that market budgets have on subscription numbers, after all, if that influence was negligible then firms like Trion, Blizzard and NC Soft wouldn’t engage in such unprofitable practices. By the way, count the number of glossy Rift adverts you see on this website alone during your next session compared to the number Xsyon adverts you see anywhere on the internet regardless of website.
However, it's not an AAA title. I suspect ArcheAge and World of Darkness might answer to those requirements of being an AAA sandbox title.
World of Darkness is to be sandbox?
That a fact or conjecture?
Conjecture. We know nothing of WoD except that it comes from CCP.
I won't argue that it is conjecture. That said, we have more reason to believe it will be sandbox based on A) the setting and it's gaming history and b) CCP has done sandbox pretty darn well.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
However, it's not an AAA title. I suspect ArcheAge and World of Darkness might answer to those requirements of being an AAA sandbox title.
World of Darkness is to be sandbox?
That a fact or conjecture?
Conjecture. We know nothing of WoD except that it comes from CCP.
I won't argue that it is conjecture. That said, we have more reason to believe it will be sandbox based on A) the setting and it's gaming history and b) CCP has done sandbox pretty darn well.
Hope you're right there..
But having World of WARcraft without any war and Wahammer Online without any Warhammer has made me pretty sceptical of devs wisdom in these matters...
no matter what they do to xsyon or what people say..they will never get me to play that hulking turd of a game..and as for rift..looks more of the same but with mobs randomly droping outta the sky...i'll pass and wait for new...or i may have to give up on the genra altogether / sigh
However, it's not an AAA title. I suspect ArcheAge and World of Darkness might answer to those requirements of being an AAA sandbox title.
World of Darkness is to be sandbox?
That a fact or conjecture?
Since it's made by CCP, chances are pretty large that they stick with their strengths, it made EVE the success it is today. But nothing has been stated yet, that's why I said 'suspect'.
Originally posted by Vilander
(snips)
Mildly amusing that someone cannot simply recognise the impact that market budgets have on subscription numbers, after all, if that influence was negligible then firms like Trion, Blizzard and NC Soft wouldn’t engage in such unprofitable practices. By the way, count the number of glossy Rift adverts you see on this website alone during your next session compared to the number Xsyon adverts you see anywhere on the internet regardless of website.
Whatever you say, mate, it's all good. I already made my point to what really interested me in my earlier posts, you did the same in what you stand for, agree to disagree, and such.
Originally posted by odinsrath
no matter what they do to xsyon or what people say..they will never get me to play that hulking turd of a game..and as for rift..looks more of the same but with mobs randomly droping outta the sky...i'll pass and wait for new...or i may have to give up on the genra altogether / sigh
I'd say just wait until GW2, SWTOR, The Secret World, Firefall, ArcheAge, TERA and World of Darkness have come out. If there hasn't been any game you'd like to play among those, then you can still give up on the genre.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Comments
Nonsense, don't put words in my mouth with strawman arguments that I never said.
What I'm saying is that fanboism is fanboism no matter which game it's about, and that one game's hater is another game's fanboi. People tend to mix up 'personal taste' with 'quality'.
As for the sales/sub figures and the poll, yes, to me it'll be interesting to see in how much the mix of preferences of the mmorpg.com community will compare to the larger MMO community. I'm pretty sure there is a difference, the only question I'm curious about is how much different.
EDIT: oh, in case you thought my former post was a direct comment on your post that came right before, it was not. My former post was a general observation.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
While Rift ist likely the more polished game on release, I'd have to say Xsyon. Simple because I can see something novel and interesting coming out of that game; something that can benefit the genre as a whole. Rift on the other hand contributes nothing, imho. And I am old enough to remember the times when games where not all about getting better items in order to get into dungeons to get better items to then get better items... so the concept of Xsyon appeals to me, polish or no polish. If enough people show their support (financially), this game can turn out pretty good, I reckon.
Yep no question AOC will follow the same "freemium" model
And it will be good.
You can not believe how many players are running now in champions
Ahh so Champions Online has picked up since going F2P ? That is good to know.
Lol , you really can't compare those two games not even in terms of what constitutes "success" subscription-wise.
Considering the production costs of those two games, 500k subs for Rift would be a so-so result... while the 5k or so Xysom got is a massive success that took the devs by surprise and now they're having to upgrade servers and whatnot.
Imo this 40% vs 20% result is a massive win for Xsyon considering that those two games are not even in the same league by far. Xsyon never tried to be an AAA title - it is a niche game and it's devs are realistic with that. They were never aiming for mils of subs and thats why their production costs are so low.
Lemme put it this way. Which movie is more succesful - indie production which costs $500k but returns 20 mil or a hollywood blockbuster costing $200 mil which grosses 300? One gives you 4000% return and the other 150%... Even though the blockbuster made "more" money I know which movie I'd choose to invest in.
As for "Xyson rabid fanbois"- I don't see em. Where are they? Show them to me please? I mean, Xyson is a mostly unfinished and work-in-progress game that manages to do some basic features very well but both the devs and "rabid fanbois" pretty much admit it. I never saw any post anywhere, either on the official site or the forums where anyone claimed that the game is anything other than what it is. No one is claiming that it is the "be-all and end-all", no one is saying that it is perfect in any way. I really can't understand the hate towards these fictional "rabid fanbois". I thought that you're maybe shilling for Rift but there is no competition between these two games cause they're simply in completely different leagues/genres whatever - no one is going to leave one for the other just like no one is going to stop drinking Coke for eating hamburgers. So what's the score here?
I can compare whatever I like, especially if it's measurable things like sales and sub numbers. The fact that you don't/want to compare like that doesn't mean that I shouldn't.
Having a huge diff between the poll numbers here on mmorpg.com and actual sales/subs means to me that the proportion of sandbox gaming posters on mmorpg.com is far larger than the proportion of sandbox gamers in the total of the MMORPG player base. Which is hardly surprising, since this is the place where a lot of disgruntled, jaded MMO gamers gather in search of a new game, and the sandboxing gaming crowd is on average the most disgruntled and frustrated one, having been the least serviced the last 4-5 years. And it sure explains the direction of a lot of discussions and debates: a lot of this crowd dislikes themepark games and would love nothing more than if that subgenre as a whole would fail so that their flavor of MMO games can have its spotlight as main MMO subgenre.
As for 'fanboism', you're right, I see little true biased, blind favoritism among Xsyon fans... just as little true biased, blind favoritism as is present among Rift fans, DCUO fans, SWTOR fans, WoW fans, etc. 'fanbois' is just a term haters often unjustly throw around describing normal fans of a game they themselves dislike, hence the quotes I use as a term that others are eager to call regular fans so. Or let me change your quote into something that clarifies it that's equally valid:
As for "Rift/DCUO rabid fanbois"- I don't see em. Where are they? Show them to me please? I mean, Rift/DCUO is a mostly themepark styled game that provides themepark MMO fun in its own way but both the devs and "rabid fanbois" pretty much admit it. No one is claiming that it is the "be-all and end-all", no one is saying that it is perfect in any way. I really can't understand the hate towards these fictional "rabid fanbois".
There you go. People's fannish (or 'fanboish') liking a game is equal of nature and intensity, no more, no less, whether it's Xsyon, Rift, DCUO, WoW or any other MMO.
The fact that you'd even think yet again that I'm shilling for Rift is just plain funny. If I was one of those people that so hastily like to judge themepark fans as 'fanbois' I'd say that such kind of thinking is a clear fanboi sign. But I'm not, so now it's just merely funny how off the mark that thought is.
Although there's no question that going 'freemium' will boost AoC subs, I fail to see how this could be done like LotrO or EQ2. AoC has a lot less regions and quest content than those 2 games.
I don't know how CO is doing it, btw. Just gone F2P with an itemshop?
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I purchased both. Xsyon more than Rift will I be playing
I self identify as a monkey.
Yes, you go ahead and compare the subscriptions numbers of the two games, make sure you compare the sales & marketing budgets of the two developers too.
/chuckle
I don't get the joke here...
He who keeps his cool best wins.
Xsyom has fallen into the standard sandbox trap of Sandbox = FFApvp so Rift for me.
At least Rift is giving us some character customization.
That’s because there isn’t one. It is, however, mildly amusing that someone would use subscription numbers as a metric of quality and success whilst paying no attention to the enormously differing sales & marketing budgets of the two respective developers.
Sounds a bit defensive and typical fan behaviour to me. Mind you, nothing wrong or bad with that: you see it in fans of Rift, DCUO, WoW, Xsyon or any game, the need to defend their choice of game against 'attacks'.
I find it mildly amusing though that someone feels the need to justify or explain away any difference in sub numbers by pointing towards the 'enormous' difference in sales and marketing budget: as if Trion is currently spending millions on advertising or as if when millions of dollars was spent on marketing Xsyon, that Xsyon then would suddenly have 500k-1m subs after launch. It's mildly amusing, because all that really interested me was the difference between the mmorpg.com community and the larger overal mmo gaming community in their taste, the former not being representative for the latter.
However, the OP was about who would choose what to play, the OP poster being slightly biased towards Xsyon, but nevertheless, let's go back to the OP topic, shall we?
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I hope Xsyon does not go the way of Roma Victor - barely playable until Exodus. Plus both games are quite expensive (Box price+standard P2P)... ok, still better than P2P+cash shop.
I am currently busy with Uncharted Waters online, so I may skip the release day of both games.
there is no reason to compare it to the Shannara books. a better analogy would be something like the movie 'The Postman', to compare Xyson to.
I am one of the few people that actually really liked The Postman.
I love the idea of Xsyon, but I'm very concerned about the graphics and server stability and whatnot. It looks like the kind of indie game that could either be great in 6 months or just totally fail, kind of like Mortal Online.
I really wish a big gaming company would make a medium to high budget sandbox game. It's obvious the demand is there.
I'll be keeping up on it but in the meantime I'll probably be playing Rift.
Number 1 thing with games is they have to work. Then you can get into how inventive or fun they are. Rift will definately work. Xsyon- I'm not sure. I'm very wary of another Mortal Online debacle.
I think there is. Themepark design philosophy has its limits and can only go so far. Of the currently available sandbox MMO's besides EVE, Xsyon looks to have the most potential to fill that niche and satisfy a certain part of sandbox gamers, since SWG can't do that anymore.
However, it's not an AAA title. I suspect ArcheAge and World of Darkness might answer to those requirements of being an AAA sandbox title.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
World of Darkness is to be sandbox?
That a fact or conjecture?
The lady doth protest too much. You sound very defensive and typically fanboy-esque in nature. Mind you, there’s nothing wrong or bad with that. You see it in fans of Rift, EQ, WoW, Xsyon or any game, the need to defend their choice of game against 'attacks'.
Mildly amusing that someone cannot simply recognise the impact that market budgets have on subscription numbers, after all, if that influence was negligible then firms like Trion, Blizzard and NC Soft wouldn’t engage in such unprofitable practices. By the way, count the number of glossy Rift adverts you see on this website alone during your next session compared to the number Xsyon adverts you see anywhere on the internet regardless of website.
Conjecture. We know nothing of WoD except that it comes from CCP.
I won't argue that it is conjecture. That said, we have more reason to believe it will be sandbox based on A) the setting and it's gaming history and b) CCP has done sandbox pretty darn well.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Hope you're right there..
But having World of WARcraft without any war and Wahammer Online without any Warhammer has made me pretty sceptical of devs wisdom in these matters...
no matter what they do to xsyon or what people say..they will never get me to play that hulking turd of a game..and as for rift..looks more of the same but with mobs randomly droping outta the sky...i'll pass and wait for new...or i may have to give up on the genra altogether / sigh
If this wasn't a skewed forum vote than it would be 99% Rift and 1% Xyson for sure!
Since it's made by CCP, chances are pretty large that they stick with their strengths, it made EVE the success it is today. But nothing has been stated yet, that's why I said 'suspect'.
Whatever you say, mate, it's all good. I already made my point to what really interested me in my earlier posts, you did the same in what you stand for, agree to disagree, and such.
I'd say just wait until GW2, SWTOR, The Secret World, Firefall, ArcheAge, TERA and World of Darkness have come out. If there hasn't been any game you'd like to play among those, then you can still give up on the genre.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Sandbox players will always be a minority even on the forums. They are however a vocal majority
I think they'd be less of a minority if a sandbox came out where long-term playing didn't allow you to mess with the progression of new players.
I know, I know, people say in Eve you can kill a fleet with your starter ship or something but I don't believe that is true.
There can be advantages, but when older players can interfere or basically totally prevent progression by new players, it'll always be a niche thing.
Mabye this Xsyon will be just the ticket since there's less focus on combat. Time will tell but based on what I've seen I wouldn't wager on it.