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Rift, not a cut down version of the real truth
I thought I would give a fair and balanced preview of what you can expect from Rift.
First off the game is akin to WoW, but it is not WoW. I constantly see the term WoW Clones and rip off of WoW. Well if you really want to break it down, WoW stole everything from EQ, which was taken from UO and Meridian 59. So really there are no original ideas and to compare games to WoW is a bad idea and unfair to the developer. However, for the people who are interested let's do some comparisons anyway. I am sure I'll get flamed for it, but hell I am looking to give you all a balanced view point.
What makes Rift like WoW?
1. Well, the controls are almost exactly like WoW's set up. Which is a good thing, smooth controls help a game at launch so why break it if it works?
2. There are talent trees like WoW, or should I say like Diablo, since that is where WoW got it? However, Rift has "roots" which are abilities gained from the amount of points put into a tree.
3. Resource mechanics are similar. Rogues get combo points, warriors get "holy power" or attack points, mages get "runic power" or charge, and clerics get buffed based stacks that can be spent. Similar to paladin Seal of Truth mechanic but a little more to it. Other than that, rogues and warriors use a focus/energy, mages and clerics use mana.
4. They have target of target UI and Focus similar to WoW.
5. They have instances for dungeons and raids, and groups are 5 people while raids will be 10 and 20.
6. They have armor and weapons, with color coded rareness. Maybe I am going to far now, lol. I think you all get the picture.
7. Crafting system is very similar in the way it works.
8. PvP is very similar, there are battle grounds and all of that.
9. Similar Achievement system and titles
As far as I am concerned none of this is really bad. Again why fix something that isn't broken.
So, now let's see what Rift has that WoW doesn't.
1. A more varied class system. Clerics can heal, DPS and Tank. Rogues can support heal, DPS and tank. Warriors can support buff, DPS and tank. Lastly, mages can heal, DPS and support buff. One key thing, you only NEED four characters to play any class combination in the game. No longer do you need ten characters to play all the different classes.
So, some of you are saying "well that kills replay-ability". Honestly, I have yet to see that. In fact with their system they can make the replay-ability even greater by adding new talent trees down the line or souls as they call it.
2. Dynamic content. Rift doesn't just have group quests like Warhammer, these "rifts" spawn dynamically throughout the world and can even take over control points and fight each other. By fight each other I mean if a "death rift" and a "life rift" spawn next to each other they will fight for control over the area. Also, at higher levels, a player can spawn a rift on the other factions territory, which brings in a whole new form of PvPvE aspect to the game.
3. I will admit I have not been able to play all the dungeon content. However, the first dungeon you come across at level 17 or 18 is by far the most innovative dungeon I have seen in an MMO. The dungeon itself was epic in size, so no quick 10 minute runs at the appropriate level, as well as having interesting and interactive quests right inside. Mind you this is the very FIRST dungeon.
4. Dye system. Enough said. Come on Blizzard, you really need to catch up.
5. Crafting system works similar to WoW, but in Rift you can add special components to make your gear better while adding enchantments or runes. This is all from the get go, no at level 40 or 60 like with jewel crafting.
6. Way better graphics. Well to be fair it not really better, it's just different. WoW has great graphics. Rift just has different and in most opinions better. One thing that Rift does over WoW is there are actual modeled graphics for Chest and Pants. This allows different armors and more variations.
7. Even though PvP battle grounds are similar, Rift has more potential for open world PvPvE. Basically opening rifts right on top of your enemies and watching them get slaughtered.
8. Mounts from the start. No waiting till 20. You have the money? Then you get a mount. If you get the collectors addition you start with a mount.
9. Level 50. This is a big deal. In WoW you have to get to level 85!!!! This is serious time investment just to get to the real game. Which in WoW is end game content like raiding and rated BGs and arenas. Well in Rift the max level is 50 and if I am not mistaken, the developers are looking at a lateral advancement system instead of just adding more levels on to the game. Why is this a good thing? Well, your raid content will always be viable, where WoW has level 60 raiding content no one will ever see. Also, you never have to worry about getting gear from a dungeon and saying, "damn I spent all that time raiding and now those greens one level lower are better? WTF!"
10. A collection system for finding out histories and the story behind the Rift world.
Ok, as you can see there are a lot of things Rift has that WoW does not. But, what does WoW have that Rift does not? Let's take a look.
1. Mature end game content. But Rift will get that.
2. Flying mounts. I know Rift will have it, but no one knows for sure if it will at launch.
3. Proven server stability and all that. Well, Rift is one of the most stable beta's I have ever seen. When WoW was in beta and at launch they had horrible issues. No one seems to remember that.
4. More varied class mechanics. Rogue combos, warrior rage, paladin holy power, death knights runic power and runes, druid's boomkin system, priests new system, hunter focus and pets, and warlock soul shard system. WoW does have a lot of mechanics, sometimes too much and sometimes just right.
5. Customizable UI and Addons. Rift allows you to customize your UI but not through addons just yet. I do know they will be adding the ability for mods in the future. But they are focusing on launch and smooth ride.
6. Dungeon Finder, which Rift will have in the future.
7. Lastly, I want to just say all the matured game content that comes with years of being around. Like epic items, tier gear and server stability.
Yes WoW has a lot of stuff that Rift does not and Rift has a lot of stuff WoW does not. I am sure I missed some things that people will point out. But these pretty much make or break any MMO.
So, Rift is like all the other games out there. The developer did it smart. They made a game anyone can come to and play without feeling out of place or like they have to relearn everything. There are some innovative things like Dynamic content in the open world, and there are things that are just like the number one MMO. I say "good", because it is always best to take what works and leave out the bad. If you make a game to alien then no one will play it, so being completely innovative on every aspect will ruin your chances in the gaming market.
I hope this post gives everyone a better view of what to expect from Rift. I was really tired of seeing, WoW+Runes of Magic+Warhammer+Lineage+DAoC+EQ+UO+SWG and so on. This is not how you give people an idea of what to expect and then claim its unbiased. Anyway, I probably will not respond to any posts but I will be reading what you all think or have to say.
- Sigreth
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Great post. I avoided the beta because I had a great feeling about Rift, so I'm excited for Thursday.
Nice write-up. I think the big thing is that in the long run, Rift won't be considered better than WoW. It won't be considered as worse either... just an alternative. At least that is how I see people claiming in due time.
Stopped reading here, because that's not entirely true.
While it is true WoW has no unique features of its own, it didn't copy EQ so much as it did dumb it down. I'd be thrilled if Rift were an EQ clone, but that's not true. It models itself on WoW, which has so fewer features than EQ its amazing knowing that WoW had more devs than EQ did.
Also, EQ did not get its features from UO or Meridian 59. All 3 of those games were as different as night and day, something that can't be said for modern MMOs. Those games all had original ideas independent of one another. Modern WoW clones do not have this.
Can't wait till Headstart on Thursday....
"It would be awesome if you could duel your companion. Then you could solo pvp".--Thanes
Probably because a WoW clone has a much (much) larger target audience than an EQ clone would.
.. But in a good way.
Sadly companies keep making this mistake. The people in WoW are playing WoW, they don't want another game exactly like it. LotRO, Aion, AoC, and all the other clones proved this when they failed to even reach the subscription levels that EverQuest had in 2002.
Then let's enjoy the upcoming games that DO try to be bold, even if it means a slight chance at failure.
EQ spiked at 550k mid 2004. During 2002, they were in the 425-450k range (from 2001 to mid 2006 they were above 400k).
LotRO spiked around 275k mid 2009.
Aion spiked around 4m third quarter 2009.
AoC spiked around 700k mid 2008.
Something that is often left out in regard to comparisons made about the EQ numbers is the number of games that were available at the time compared to how many games there are now. The market is saturated - massively saturated - in comparison. So generally reflecting upon EQ numbers is fruitless...
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Several key points.
EQ had those subscribers at a time when the tech to run these games was fairly hard to come by, and the MMO market wasn't very well known.
Two, there were actually quite a great number of MMOs at the time. There were actually MORE successful MMOs then than there are now. Right now, you have ONE MMO running the show, back then you had 5-6.
Third, EQ was steadily GROWING when it spiked in 2004. AoC's 700k was right after launch. It's down in the 200-100ks right now. Same boat for Aion and LotRO. They are shrinking games. LotRO barely managed to avoid the financial failure of AoC because it had some curious fans leftover from the Middle Earth Online days, which left soon enough after it became clear that Turbine had NGE'd MEO.
AoC was a commercial failure. Aion was a failure in the west as well. LotRO was strung along, neither flourishing or failing. And this is because they do NOTHING new.
During that 2002-2004 period:
EQ ran in the 400-450k range.
UO ran in the 200-250k range.
DAoC ran in the 200-250k range.
FFXI would spike at 500k or so.
SWG would spike at 300k or so.
Lineage got up to around 3.25m or so.
There were not that many games that broke 200k subs.
During that period, it is estimated that there were 4-6m subs.
Subs are no longer a valid estimate of what a game is doing because of the combination of "F2P" games as well as alternative payment methods. Many of WoW's numbers come from active accounts as opposed to active subscriptions.
One can go to the Games List here, select released games, sort by date, and see how saturated the market is in comparison to that 2002-2004 range.
The EQ numbers are for a time when there was a smaller market and when there were fewer games. The rough numbers cannot be used in comparison to current games.
The 425k subs in 2002 was about 10.6% of the marketshare. The 450k in 2004 was around 7.5%.
With the 100k or so they had at the end of last year, they may have been pulling around 0.48% of the market (for subs, not accounts). Around 25% of their numbers from 2002, but not even 5% of the marketshare they had at the time.
Both AoC and LotRO have more subs than EQ currently does (Aion always has). Note, this does not include the LotRO F2P players.
While your preference for older games and general disdain for newer games is well chronicled in your posts, what you consider to be failure does not explain the continued existence of the newer games and how well they are doing in a saturated market - a saturated market during an economic depression at that.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
I don't think anyone in their right mind would call AoC "doing well" nor LotRO which was forced to go FTP to save itself. Half of the companies involved in AoC's development went bankrupt. Mythic is all but gone due to how poorly WAR performed. The evidence is there, clear as day, that clones don't work. Considering the massive amount of money that went into these clones, combined with the MASSIVE marketing budgets as well... they're on financial shakey ground. With a market of people DYING for something different, to the point where they'll even look at the negligable differences between games like LotRO and WoW, and see them as two entirely unique and individual games... MMOs should be doing a lot better. But they aren't, because developers are just cloning WoW. The only GROWING MMOs on the market are those NOT copying WoW (Darkfall, EvE).
@ garvon3
I agree there's lots of ppl out there looking for something else. All those ppl are not looking for the same thing tho. This forum is a great indicator of that. Ppl want something new, they have no idea what they want really and whenever someone tries to be innovative it ends in a mess, so far.
This is an incredibly important distinction to make, and for this discussion, I'm glad it was made. Like many MMO's I have played, my World of Warcraft Account is still active, my subscription is not, and I've vowed to never sink another penny into that game, and attempt to dissuade anyone whom I care about from doing so.
I submit to you a quotation with one substitution to be made, Science for Inovation.
Albert Einstine once said: "If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called science, now would it?"
Fantastic Post. A++ sir.
Forced to go F2P to save itself? So it was not because DDO showed an increase in profit from F2P? Even CO increased profit from going F2P. LotRO was doing fine before going F2P. Warner Bros is making more scratch from taking LotRO F2P.
What a complete misunderstanding of what is going on...I'm speechless.
Even to the use of the term clones and stating they do not do well. WoW is a clone. One can hardly argue against it having done well over the years...
AoC was a mix of a bugfest, vaporware, and a game that could not run on many gamers' machines - it was doomed. That is not a reflection upon anything other than failure on FunCom's part.
As for WAR, lots of awards there, no? You state Mythic is all but gone - but you leave out a keypoint. It is EA Mythic. Oh wait, they changed that to BioWare Mythic. Oh wait, they changed that again. The Mythic that put out WAR is not the same Mythic that put out DAoC. Mythic was already done when EA took over.
Even EVE has taken a hit on subs of late, and to state that Darkfall is growing...lol, I mean - c'mon, seriously?
edit: Still, in the end - if you are going to label any game that came out after WoW that uses standard features that existed prior to WoW as a WoW-clone... there really is no point in wasting any further time trying to discuss anything.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
WoW still modeled itself off of EQ, much in the same way Rift takes what works in WoW, and makes it better.
Crafting is similar, but better because there's augmenting for example.
Rifts add vastly new game dynamics to the game by introducing public encounters, strongholds, and invasions.
A dynamic class system where you can mix and match 3 out of 8 specs per your class at a time.
Armor dyes.
etc.
Trion has added and improved on a lot of things Blizzard could have done with WoW, but instead slacked off because they're the current industry giant.
I didn't know that. Does that mean that a group of players can go deep into enemy territory or enemy strongpoint and then like dump a dozen rifts on them ?
That's a nifty open world PvP warfare mechanic if that's true.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
The most valid point in this whole thread. Blizzard only reports account numbers NOT subscruption numbers. So anyone that thinks there are 11 million people playing WoW are wrong. That is the number of accounts people created to play WoW. Blizzard won't ever release subscription numbers, especially now . . . how would that make them look? Can't go from 11 million to 5 or 6 orwhatever the number is and make anyone happy, except WoW haters.
Gaming since Avalon Hill was making board games.
Played SWG, EVE, Fallen Earth, LOTRO, Rift, Vanguard, WoW, SWTOR, TSW, Tera
Tried Aoc, Aion, EQII, RoM, Vindictus, Darkfail, DDO, GW, PotBS
Dynamic class systems are nothing new. Armor dyes are nothing new. Invasions are nothing new. WAR, Tabula Rasa, and Darkfall all had invasions.
There's a key difference between modeling yourself after something (WoW to EQ) and just copy and pasting almost the entire game (WoW to Rift) with small tweaks. Sadly both games are doomed to be poor because they still have all the inherent flaws of EQ that are only solved by layering on instances instead of good game design.
first of the Class system is not that varried and eventually there is going to be cookie cutter builds. In fact I say theres less diveresity in rift as theres only 4 classes which means only 4 armor sets really.
In WoW theres 10 classes that can modified 3 ways each and each class has its own armror set.
Rift just allows you to jump between a healer DPS, tank at a whim but with out having specialized gear to make you look different.
Whether they are "nothing new" or not with regards to MMOs in general wasn't the point. The point was that they are features that WoW does not have.
Rift takes a lot of the things from WoW that work, and then also adds additional mechanics and features, some new and some old with regards to MMOs.
Rift isn't copy and pasting WoW anymore than WoW copy and pasted from EQ.
I agree with you Ceridith.
Why do some of these people think WoW was the first to do anything.
from where I stand and look at WoW I see parts from other MMOs that they took from,
Please continue discussion of game comparisons in the stickied thread for that purpose. http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/306250/READ-The-Rift-World-of-WarcraftWarhammerEtc-Comparison-Thread.html
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