You know it's a copy of a superior brand wrapped in a shiny coat of hype. You know it is actually inferior. But if you keep telling yourself it's a good car, in your tiny little brain, you will start to believe it actually is even though everyone in the street is making fun of you behind your back.
The only difference here is that Trion is asking FULL PRICE for the Hyundai, which makes it even worse.
I gotta say the Hyundai Sonata with the turbo charged engine is one sweet ride! If you can't enjoy a car like the Sonata because it has the Hyundai tag on it, then you're lame and need to get over yourself. I'm sure other car enthusiasts wouldn't want to spend there time with you or even give 2 hoots for what you'd have to say either. Now if I can only translate this over to the MMO genre...
If we want to compare Rift to WoW, since the cars analogy is old I'd use another: Rift to WoW is like the HK416 to the M4A1. The HK 416 is not in any way innovative, but it's virtually superior to the M4A1 in every way except weight(like questing in Rift is inferior to questing in WoW), they feel almost the same to operate. But the HK 416 is still regularly get trashed by M4A1 and non AR fanboys, the former because....well....because they're M4A1 fanboys and there're just too many of them, the latter because they don't like AR style rifles.
If we want to compare Rift to WoW, since the cars analogy is old I'd use another: Rift to WoW is like the HK416 to the M4A1, the HK 416 is virtually superior to the M4A1 in every way except weight(like questing in Rift is inferior to questing in WoW), they feel almost the same to operate. But the HK 416 is still regularly get trashed by M4A1 and non AR fanboys, the former because....well....because they're M4A1 fanboys and there're just too many of them, the latter because they don't like AR style rifles.
Now apply this to rift.
Hey!! No fair highjakin my highjacked thread! This is a gearhead thread now not a gun show. Although I must say I personally like the Heckler better. And you do know the idea there are 'just too many of them' is subjective based solely on how much ammo you have at your disposal.
However, just because i like the HK better does not in anyway infer that I like WoW over Rift. If you put half the people I see in one place in Rift in one place in WoW it would crash the server. Yesterday we had a Jacob invasion in Freemarch and there had to be at least 15 full raid teams running around at the same time working it. WoW just isn't capable of handling the concurant users in the same locale that Rift can, sorry but it just can't.
your sentence is a bit incomplete, so let me fix that:
Sandbox do not sell ...
if made by an indie company due to low budget and therefor missing features, content and advertising
if too puristic and made by a sandbox fundamentalist
if pvp-ffa everywhere and made by a pvp-fundamentalist
the worst statement in MMO-interviews is: "we took the best out of all MMOs",
because first, they take over the biggest mistakes from all MMOs since 2005: the basic design principles set by WoW and EQ2 in these old days: linearity, refinig, accesability, short fights, low need for tactics, planning and strategy, no conflicts .... all overdone dramatically. nothing against the rest: there are some cool features in theme-parks, no doubt.
i am fully convinced that the theme-park is a dead end. boring and repetitive as hell. the sandbox might be a base for starting, but not appropriate for the mass market in its current state. nevertheless, a real innovative MMO should throw most design principles from the theme park away, remember what made sandboxes fun and start thinking from there again. the industry just came to the wrong conclusions in 2005 after analysing the old games. so they replaced the old mistakes by new ones. instead of keeping the old strength and adding new ones.
so RIFT made everything right from their point of view and fully wrong from mine.
PS: btw, the 2nd worst statement is: "we got something for everybody". this guarantees a bad game!
Wow, you let these guys go and they will go all on topic in no time huh. All arguing again and stuff. Disappointing isnt it? Really though, when did we get on the sandbox vs themepark again??
Anyway, just wanted to point out that SAAB was not always owned by GM and isnt any more again.
woops i forgot they sold saab, my bad. just trying to have some fun in between eternal never ending impassioned discussion over polarizing talking points.
the struggle to free myself from restraints becomes my very shackles
your sentence is a bit incomplete, so let me fix that:
Sandbox do not sell ...
if made by an indie company due to low budget and therefor missing features, content and advertising
if too puristic and made by a sandbox fundamentalist
if pvp-ffa everywhere and made by a pvp-fundamentalist
the worst statement in MMO-interviews is: "we took the best out of all MMOs",
because first, they take over the biggest mistakes from all MMOs since 2005: the basic design principles set by WoW and EQ2 in these old days: linearity, refinig, accesability, short fights, low need for tactics, planning and strategy, no conflicts .... all overdone dramatically. nothing against the rest: there are some cool features in theme-parks, no doubt.
i am fully convinced that the theme-park is a dead end. boring and repetitive as hell. the sandbox might be a base for starting, but not appropriate for the mass market in its current state. nevertheless, a real innovative MMO should throw most design principles from the theme park away, remember what made sandboxes fun and start thinking from there again. the industry just came to the wrong conclusions in 2005 after analysing the old games. so they replaced the old mistakes by new ones. instead of keeping the old strength and adding new ones.
so RIFT made everything right from their point of view and fully wrong from mine.
PS: btw, the 2nd worst statement is: "we got something for everybody". this guarantees a bad game!
In your minority opinion that is. Most people players and developers in the world do not argree with you.
Well, in my opinion, this guy speaks the truth. How many more we'll need to become a majority?
Eve, sandboxes and about 90% of the other comments have no real bearing on the OP about first impressions.
For me I didn't play during the beta though I had a key and invite for it but I have started in the head start and I'm finding that the game plays smoothly except during a few peak periods when there are just way too many people running around. The rift public quests have been a blast and the ability to join a public group without having to ask or be blessed by some power mad gamer is great.
The quests have been fairly standard but if you actually take the time to read the text and keep up with the storyline they provide quite a bit of background lore. There have been one or two minor pathing bugs and the like but nothing to stop me from completing a quest and they all seem to be set at about the right level for the target players.
I have had a couple of client crashes which were mostly at the end of sealing a rift encounter but once restarted and logged back in I still go my rewards so that was well done and I expect they will fix the issues as they go along and a couple of patches have been pushed out already.
All in all except for the slightly longish queues (and I have had longer ones in WoW and other games) the start has been pretty good.
seriously? when MORE people agree with you then dont?! simple math friendo. You do understand that the VAST majority of people who play mmo's do NOT agree with you right? Sub numbers speak the truth. Other wise these kinds of games would not sell. But they do.
you assume, that these people playing the standard theme-park do really like, what they play. actually, a lot of them play, because there is nothing better on the market or they cant imagine something better. no doubt, as i already said: todays sandboxes are not competitive.
but that doesnt mean, that you could not make a better game, coming from sandbox-principles and adding theme-park elements or vice versa. after ArchAge and GW2 are launched, we will know a bit more about this theory.
for me is clear, that staying with the wow-design-principles and launching just another theme-park of this kind like RIFT, leads this industry nowhere. same counts for another puristic simulation like XSYON or another world-wide arena like MORTAL.
This is like having an argument over food at the McDonalds; you cannot reason with fast food junkies, they need their fix. And although they’ll feel better for a while, in the end everyone knows that what they are doing isn’t in the best interest of themselves.
Everyone has a choice? Everyone sure has. But let’s keep it that way. Imagine your whole city filled with McDonalds, KFC, Wendy’s PizzaHut, like, where is the real choice then? At some point gastronomes will raise their voice about it.
My first impression of r(mt)ift was at the forums at beta one. At least now I understand why they didn't address the heaps of discourteous accounts/usernames. They needed their one (derp) million mark. My first ingame impression…McDonalds.
.Seriously? you honestly believe that? All these millions of players across multiple mmo's from all over the world only play these games because there is nothing better? really?
sure, this is how our worldwide economy works. people buy your goods until somebody offers something better. ask GM and others in the car industry, how dangerous it is, to stay with old design principles.
ask Mercedes and BMW in Germany about hybrid cars. they all laughed about this approach and said "no we will stay with our classic engine and tune them a bit". they have been proven wrong by painful losses.
hybrid is a nice concept btw. thats perhaps exactly what we need: a hybrid MMO.
Originally posted by blueturtle13 Originally posted by Stormscion so pure sandbox means it has steap learning curve ? wtf are you talking about look like disgrunted elitist bitter veteran from eve.... eve is as sandbox as it gets.
Noone said anything about a steep learning curve defining weather a game is a sandbox or not. Not sure who thinks EVE is hard lol it isnt. Also EVE is as sandbox as it is. Not as it gets. Second life is more of a real sandbox. As is Tale in the Desert or Wurm or hell even minecraft. There are restrictions to things you can do in EVE it isnt 'total' freedom. Not even as much as it used to be. Nice quote from Tobold: CCP stated that over 80% of the EVE players never leave safe empire space. And over the years there has been a lot of PvE content added to EVE. For me it isn't obvious that you can count all EVE players as "sandbox players", as obviously a good number of them is mostly engaged in activities like agent missions, which aren't fundamentally different from running quests in a themepark MMORPG.
It's easy to understand why over 80% of Eve players are like that. The risk of leaving the safe sectors is so sever at times. You can items you spent literally months or years working on or toward. That's crazy.
Comments
I gotta say the Hyundai Sonata with the turbo charged engine is one sweet ride! If you can't enjoy a car like the Sonata because it has the Hyundai tag on it, then you're lame and need to get over yourself. I'm sure other car enthusiasts wouldn't want to spend there time with you or even give 2 hoots for what you'd have to say either. Now if I can only translate this over to the MMO genre...
If we want to compare Rift to WoW, since the cars analogy is old I'd use another: Rift to WoW is like the HK416 to the M4A1. The HK 416 is not in any way innovative, but it's virtually superior to the M4A1 in every way except weight(like questing in Rift is inferior to questing in WoW), they feel almost the same to operate. But the HK 416 is still regularly get trashed by M4A1 and non AR fanboys, the former because....well....because they're M4A1 fanboys and there're just too many of them, the latter because they don't like AR style rifles.
Now apply this to rift.
so pure sandbox means it has steap learning curve ? wtf are you talking about
look like disgrunted elitist bitter veteran from eve....
eve is as sandbox as it gets.
Mortal in body
Eternal In Will
Damn work MacBookPro! install Widows quicker so I can play!
Hey!! No fair highjakin my highjacked thread! This is a gearhead thread now not a gun show. Although I must say I personally like the Heckler better. And you do know the idea there are 'just too many of them' is subjective based solely on how much ammo you have at your disposal.
However, just because i like the HK better does not in anyway infer that I like WoW over Rift. If you put half the people I see in one place in Rift in one place in WoW it would crash the server. Yesterday we had a Jacob invasion in Freemarch and there had to be at least 15 full raid teams running around at the same time working it. WoW just isn't capable of handling the concurant users in the same locale that Rift can, sorry but it just can't.
your sentence is a bit incomplete, so let me fix that:
Sandbox do not sell ...
if made by an indie company due to low budget and therefor missing features, content and advertising
if too puristic and made by a sandbox fundamentalist
if pvp-ffa everywhere and made by a pvp-fundamentalist
the worst statement in MMO-interviews is: "we took the best out of all MMOs",
because first, they take over the biggest mistakes from all MMOs since 2005: the basic design principles set by WoW and EQ2 in these old days: linearity, refinig, accesability, short fights, low need for tactics, planning and strategy, no conflicts .... all overdone dramatically. nothing against the rest: there are some cool features in theme-parks, no doubt.
i am fully convinced that the theme-park is a dead end. boring and repetitive as hell. the sandbox might be a base for starting, but not appropriate for the mass market in its current state. nevertheless, a real innovative MMO should throw most design principles from the theme park away, remember what made sandboxes fun and start thinking from there again. the industry just came to the wrong conclusions in 2005 after analysing the old games. so they replaced the old mistakes by new ones. instead of keeping the old strength and adding new ones.
so RIFT made everything right from their point of view and fully wrong from mine.
PS: btw, the 2nd worst statement is: "we got something for everybody". this guarantees a bad game!
played: Everquest I (6 years), EVE (3 years)
months: EQII, Vanguard, Siedler Online, SWTOR, Guild Wars 2
weeks: WoW, Shaiya, Darkfall, Florensia, Entropia, Aion, Lotro, Fallen Earth, Uncharted Waters
days: DDO, RoM, FFXIV, STO, Atlantica, PotBS, Maestia, WAR, AoC, Gods&Heroes, Cultures, RIFT, Forsaken World, Allodds
woops i forgot they sold saab, my bad. just trying to have some fun in between eternal never ending impassioned discussion over polarizing talking points.
the struggle to free myself from restraints becomes my very shackles
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
Well, in my opinion, this guy speaks the truth. How many more we'll need to become a majority?
Eve, sandboxes and about 90% of the other comments have no real bearing on the OP about first impressions.
For me I didn't play during the beta though I had a key and invite for it but I have started in the head start and I'm finding that the game plays smoothly except during a few peak periods when there are just way too many people running around. The rift public quests have been a blast and the ability to join a public group without having to ask or be blessed by some power mad gamer is great.
The quests have been fairly standard but if you actually take the time to read the text and keep up with the storyline they provide quite a bit of background lore. There have been one or two minor pathing bugs and the like but nothing to stop me from completing a quest and they all seem to be set at about the right level for the target players.
I have had a couple of client crashes which were mostly at the end of sealing a rift encounter but once restarted and logged back in I still go my rewards so that was well done and I expect they will fix the issues as they go along and a couple of patches have been pushed out already.
All in all except for the slightly longish queues (and I have had longer ones in WoW and other games) the start has been pretty good.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
you assume, that these people playing the standard theme-park do really like, what they play. actually, a lot of them play, because there is nothing better on the market or they cant imagine something better. no doubt, as i already said: todays sandboxes are not competitive.
but that doesnt mean, that you could not make a better game, coming from sandbox-principles and adding theme-park elements or vice versa. after ArchAge and GW2 are launched, we will know a bit more about this theory.
for me is clear, that staying with the wow-design-principles and launching just another theme-park of this kind like RIFT, leads this industry nowhere. same counts for another puristic simulation like XSYON or another world-wide arena like MORTAL.
played: Everquest I (6 years), EVE (3 years)
months: EQII, Vanguard, Siedler Online, SWTOR, Guild Wars 2
weeks: WoW, Shaiya, Darkfall, Florensia, Entropia, Aion, Lotro, Fallen Earth, Uncharted Waters
days: DDO, RoM, FFXIV, STO, Atlantica, PotBS, Maestia, WAR, AoC, Gods&Heroes, Cultures, RIFT, Forsaken World, Allodds
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
This is like having an argument over food at the McDonalds; you cannot reason with fast food junkies, they need their fix. And although they’ll feel better for a while, in the end everyone knows that what they are doing isn’t in the best interest of themselves.
Everyone has a choice? Everyone sure has. But let’s keep it that way. Imagine your whole city filled with McDonalds, KFC, Wendy’s PizzaHut, like, where is the real choice then? At some point gastronomes will raise their voice about it.
My first impression of r(mt)ift was at the forums at beta one. At least now I understand why they didn't address the heaps of discourteous accounts/usernames. They needed their one (derp) million mark. My first ingame impression…McDonalds.
sure, this is how our worldwide economy works. people buy your goods until somebody offers something better. ask GM and others in the car industry, how dangerous it is, to stay with old design principles.
ask Mercedes and BMW in Germany about hybrid cars. they all laughed about this approach and said "no we will stay with our classic engine and tune them a bit". they have been proven wrong by painful losses.
hybrid is a nice concept btw. thats perhaps exactly what we need: a hybrid MMO.
played: Everquest I (6 years), EVE (3 years)
months: EQII, Vanguard, Siedler Online, SWTOR, Guild Wars 2
weeks: WoW, Shaiya, Darkfall, Florensia, Entropia, Aion, Lotro, Fallen Earth, Uncharted Waters
days: DDO, RoM, FFXIV, STO, Atlantica, PotBS, Maestia, WAR, AoC, Gods&Heroes, Cultures, RIFT, Forsaken World, Allodds
Nice quote from Tobold:
CCP stated that over 80% of the EVE players never leave safe empire space. And over the years there has been a lot of PvE content added to EVE. For me it isn't obvious that you can count all EVE players as "sandbox players", as obviously a good number of them is mostly engaged in activities like agent missions, which aren't fundamentally different from running quests in a themepark MMORPG.
It's easy to understand why over 80% of Eve players are like that. The risk of leaving the safe sectors is so sever at times. You can items you spent literally months or years working on or toward. That's crazy.