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General: GDC 2011: Salem Report
SBFord
Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
Paradox Interactive announced Salem not too long ago and, since then, very little has come out. Devs were on hand at this year's GDC and MMORPG.com Managing Editor Jon Wood had the chance for a sit down meeting with Salem's team. Jon found himself "jaw droppingly surprised". Find out why in Jon's GDC 2011 Salem report. Let us know your thoughts in the comments below.
It isn't often that I'm surprised by anything that I hear at the Game Developers Conference. Sure, there are always announcements and interviews, and it's always entertaining, but I honestly can't remember the last time that I was left completely bumfuzzled by a game company's description of an upcoming game. That is, until the other day when I walked into meetings with Paradox Interactive and they told me the premise behind an upcoming MMO called, Salem.
Read more of Jon Wood's GDC 2011: Salem Report.
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Comments
Well assuming that HnH actually is the alpha of Salem (which I doubt except in maybe a spiritual sense), it's still an alpha. I think it should be interesting at the very least.
game actually sound interesting and it defnitely is innovative, i dont think that has ever been done before, the other thing is you can actually kill someone offline i read in another article, that is gonna be interesting.
That's sorta what I meant by a spiritual alpha. But even if HnH is final, I would really hesitate to say how representative of Salem's final state it is.
Paradox are making an MMO? Could this be the best news for the genre I have heard in a long time?
Well, yes.
.
This kind of games need to have smooth launch(i know in princilble all games need smooth launch but with permadeath and crafting its a must) and i mean finished and almost bug and lag free also devs need to make sure that cheating is to limit, means that game is realy tested so all exploits and other kinds of cheats brought to a very minimum or with this kind of penalty like permadeath it will be over before it begins if not tested enough.
This is very exciting a game with perma death i realy hope it succeed im intrested in this game.
I only hope that the trolls and haters understand that this game is for fans of harsh penaltys and leave there hate somewhere else.
I for one will follow this game see how it developes
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Well i will admit,i was expecting the "jaw dropping" part to be weak at best,i was wrong
Ok first of all,i do like the IDEA of permadeath,but it has to be extremely well thought out,not just a simple mechanic and that's it.
I also LOVE the idea of an extremely in depth crafting game,but this part needs soooo many answers ,like rarities,mechancis,is their failures ,does it craft realsitically or like other games where it is fake,auto crafting?MUCH worse,is it offline crafting?
Open PVP,i do not like and do not agree with now ,tommorrow or next year or 100 years from now,it takes too much design effort and to be frank ,i do not feel any of these develoeprs know what they are doing.it needs to have implications and MOS Tof all it REALLY needs a system that is 100% cheat proof,and since i have not seen a single game designed as cheat proof,it pretty much means ,cheat=win in PVP.You also need to account for uneven latency and possible ZERG design.I am hardly impressed with PVP if you are allowed to zerg me with 5 players on 1.
I also do not like when i hear you NEED to be aware in a PVP world,that is only 50% of the eqaution as the higher level player needs nothing to worry about,it is the noob or lower level that needs to do all the worrying.This type of game design really makes me wonder about the quality of the developer,they MUST understand that this type of design means nobody will join a month later knowing they could be obliterated by every single player on the server with ease.
The ONLY way PVP works is if it is totally 100% even terms combat,such as Ut99 or quake style pvp and you actually suffer long term damage that needs time to repair ,this means you would be susceptible to death from other players as you would be injured.
I see MANY other fails for this design as well,like people creating alt accounts so they can kill them to gain rewards and advance their player quickly through pvp.How about warping away just before dying?How about RMT?Not such a good design if people can just RMT buy super powerfu larmour and weapons to own PVP.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Screenshots and video of Salem.
http://daeity.blogspot.com/2011/01/paradoxs-new-salem-mmorpg.html
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
I don't see how they can avoid hackers/exploiters in todays environment unless the game is very simple. People make money finding loopholes nowadays and i can't remember the last online game not hit by some form of exploiting.
Haven and Hearth is probably the most addicting MMO game I've ever experienced, its pretty sweet. Just a 2 man team started the project and it has a decently large fanbase willing to put up with all sorts of annoying crap that comes with an alpha.
The crafting system is unique and the combat is different and hard. Different and hard are good things, it makes it more player-skill based then character-stat based. Salem's jump up to my number two list of upcoming games to play, behind GW2.
Very interesting information on this game, even if the setting is a little on the unconventional side.
I'll definitely be interested in hearing more about this game.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
Griefers and gankers everywhere have just wet themselves in antici......(SAY IT!!!).....pation.
It's going to be interesting to see how devs will address that issue.
Nothing in life is to be feared, it is only to be understood. - Marie Curie
The Permanent Death seems good to a point - that is IF you do not lose ALL your Dead character has accumulated over time - items Armour etc. They should make the player get all the goods from the old Char as an Inheritance after Death......LOL....or some such thing.
As for the Full on PvP with no PvE in the game - not Impressed - I like to PvP when it is 'My Choice' not in a "Free for All Kill"
And as for Gankers - I do not feel that should be a problem in a PvP game - if you play PvP then expect to get Ganked! After all that is partly what it is all about - how on earth can you play a PvP game then QQ about being Ganked?
I for one will not be playing this game - what a shame - it sounded very interesting but for the PvP
I am an Abstract sort of Creature
Who Dislikes any sort of Restraint
If you try to pigeonhole me
I Will Break Free!
Paradox are going for a real setting. They're going for realism. One thing the pilgrim settlers in America did not have was the freedom to go about playing against environment and ignoring the natives.
Sorry, but it's about damn time a developer chose to make an MMO that did not cater to the masses. I know there are other games that probably do, but I just love it when devs stick to their guns.
.
you had me at in depth crafting
you almost lost me at open pvp
and you definitely lost me at open pvp with permadeath
not only because i dislike being forced to partake in pvp
but how would you ever control the griefing in such a game
You really can't; even in games with strict rules on PvP, you just cannot really control it. Having it be free to play will only make the situation worse. On a happy note, now there is a game to point to for those people who pop up in every MMO forum screaming for FFA PvP and permadeath!
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
HnH deals with it fairly well, it's not about you, it's about your friends and allies. You will most likely die eventually but if they carry over some of the themes from HnH you inherit a bunch of stats based on belief preferences. HnH is not level based it's in incrementable stats.
Either way will be interesting to see how it pans out, there's some really neat systems going in HnH especially for it just being a java game, if your curious about this title go check out Haven and Hearth to get a better idea of some of the concepts behind it.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
the permadeath feature could change everything. strategies, tactics and the behaviour of players and the community at all. it also changes targets of the players. you could loose everything, also your skills. this means, that the main reason of living in this world cant be maxxing skills or getting rich, like in every other game. even if you just want to become a famous person, that ends with your death. what could stay is the reputation of the player himself. but his avatar is gone.
it will become interesting, to watch players searching for this new meaning of virtual life. a meaning in a virtual life with reincarnation. naked, but perhaps you could safe some of your properties via a testament. you may then also have some slightly better starting skills, according to your abilities in previous life.
in a pure sandbox you have to define the game by yourself. perhaps you should play the game not as a single (immortal) person, but as a family. the parents die and the son or daughter follows in his fathers footsteps. also a solid buddhistic basic attitude could help, in order to love this game
you should be prepared to not live just one life of an immortal hero. get ready to die. as a realistic consequence, avatars should age and die of old age anyways. the journey is is the destination. and this is something totally different. people who like to just login and have fun for an hour or two by porting to the next perfectly balanced and refined group instance should definately not consider to enter this world.
played: Everquest I (6 years), EVE (3 years)
months: EQII, Vanguard, Siedler Online, SWTOR, Guild Wars 2
weeks: WoW, Shaiya, Darkfall, Florensia, Entropia, Aion, Lotro, Fallen Earth, Uncharted Waters
days: DDO, RoM, FFXIV, STO, Atlantica, PotBS, Maestia, WAR, AoC, Gods&Heroes, Cultures, RIFT, Forsaken World, Allodds
Finaly game that really takes the death seriously. Darkfall is good for it's full loot open pvp, but permadeath makes everything so much interesting. Those anoying kids can be killed for good and he won't come back shouting some excuses. I'm really looking for this game.
"To live in the world becoming aware of the meaning of the world is like wandering about in a great library without touching the books."
"is expected to release in the US later this year"
And you think this game will have depth? Ah MMO's, especially ones with content take a rather long time to develop and you have to have content to have depth imo. Maybe the development team is a bunch of wizards. We will just have to wait and see, but I am a bit skeptical about the design and how fast they are pushing it out.
Nothing wrong with open world pvp and permadeath IF they design in the right set of consequences because you cannot depend on the game population policing themselves. Without a good consequence design, this game will tank big time.
yawn
i love the idea of a game like this, but sadly its going to drown itself.
this game is either going to tank due to mechanical problems, or quickly be overwhelmed by ganker guilds.
there will absolutely NO WAY to prosper or even survive on your own. this will not be about skill or patience, it will be about numbers, overwhelming, groundshaking, zerg happy numbers. there will not be any large scale battles. it will be raiding griefers paradise until one mega guild "wins" the server, and absolutely everyone else quits the game.
if you and your 5 best friends are out leveling/farming/crafting etc, and a group of 15 shows up, you are just not going to stick around. you are gonna run or log out. why risk your entire guilds life, in the hopes of killing 2-3 enemy gankers? no point in that.
if there was some way of equalizing the guild structure, and somehow "forcing" players to remain loyal to their guild/faction, it might possibly survive. but without raw numbers, there's just not going to be any reason to invest time, energy or attachement to a narrative where the hero gets gang raped to death every couple of hours.
i accept your challenge. ill have my guild of 65 descend on the game and lauch a campaign of death upon everyone we meet. ill have a rotating shift of 20 or so camping the newb zones, especially wherever newly made toons spawn.
are there multiple servers or just one? cuz we'd be really excited to grief the hell out of wolfless population, at least til people get wise and form up or get used to trying out new hairstyles.
the builders can still build, all the better, as its more fun to take away what people worked so long and hard to make. maybe we'll change our guild name to "zerholes of the universe" or something even more petty and stupid, just deflate whatever raging comes our way for purposely ruining everyone elses fun.
are there any features or mechanics in the game to stop a guild like mine? or is it just some abstract condemnation from "nice" players to keep gankers in check?
Trammel, Massachusetts anyone? Seriously, sounds like an interesting idea. I'll definitely be checking this one out.
Hahahaha
Dont be Naive son, there are villages of about 100 people that are 10x more experienced than you or your guildmates
People that can take 10 semi-newbies out single handed
And then you have the Russian crusade to deal with xD
"It has potential"
-Second most used phrase on existence
"It sucks"
-Most used phrase on existence
Open PvP - no PvE - Ganking - Griefing - Permadeath all gathered together into one game. A nice tidy little niche for those who revell in that sort of game. People like myself would not be welcomed except as fodder for the wolves. Glad to see it happen and won't be there. Hope it is successful for a number of reasons.