Had i been a newcomer,reading this article,i'd have thought i am being told of a different game..a radically different game. Only i have been there,and know better. Was about to wonder, how many do you think you have fooled Tom? But sadly,i'd hazard more than enough..
I'll go back to wow when it stops over catering to the facebook gamers who whine about playing... 10man loot can never be equal to 25man loot. And I do not want to see same color/gear for 10 and 25mans. Gear sets should look different depending on your game commitment.
I likee the idea of what a pervious person was saying: normal instance, normal raids for the casuals. Heroic Instances, Heroic raids (and gear/stats should show it) for the hardcare guild. Less eppics pleas. They should feel special...
I'm glad they made Cata, 'cos after 6 years of playing WoW they finally did something so crap it made me leave the game for good.
Before Cata came out I took the plung and paid for 6 months subs. I have never done that before. I thought of all the new stuff I'd be doing and thought I'd been here for 6 years, no reason to think they'd mess it up. WRONG. My healer druids got scewed over and that made me pay my priest that didn't feel scerwed over but made me quest what the hell I was doing. I maxed all my 3 chars, profs and all. I had 5 months left on my subs and left. I enjoyed almost none of the content. There was no way I was gonna relearn how to play my healers in a more efficient way after having baby mode for so long. I decided best thing I could do, was to leanr to play something else. After all, if you're gonna learn to play again, it may as well be something new.
I did miss WoW for a week or two, but now I'm more than over it. The only reason I'm here posting is because I recieved the email from MMORPG.com and saw that it mentioned CATA.
People, who got six years out of the game... why be bitter? Just move on already. Everything dies. There are so many new MMO's coming out this year. Branch out.
$15 a month won't buy you a life, but if you're as worked up as some of you are it might just take it away.
Cheers.
You will never reach your destination if you stop and throw stones at every dog that barks ~ WC
People, who got six years out of the game... why be bitter? Just move on already. Everything dies. There are so many new MMO's coming out this year. Branch out.
$15 a month won't buy you a life, but if you're as worked up as some of you are it might just take it away.
Cheers.
Sad thing being $15 a month DID buy some people a "life." Now they feel that "life" is being taken from them.
It's a Jeep thing. . . _______ |___| \_______/ = |||||| = |X| \*........*/ |X| |X|_________|X| You wouldn't understand
What they SHOULD have done is change progression to make it easier for more casual players to see endgame content, while keeping the challenge there for the more 'hardcore' raiders.
Right now, its: Normal Dungeons - Heroic Dungeons - Raids - Heroic Raids
It should be changed to: Normal Dungeons - Normal Raids - Heroic Dungeons - Heroic Raids
This would allow more casual folks to actually SEE endgame content (for story purposes and such), while keeping the challenge/increased rewards there for those who want it. Obviously, there should be some overlap for those who want to skip normal raids and go straight for heroic dungeons, but normal dungeon gear should be sufficient for the 'regular' raid content.
Grinding up normals to run heroics, then grinding heroics to run raids just isn't fun. I've already run those dungeons 500 goddamn times, now I have to run the 'harder' versions 500 more times just to have a chance to see how the story progresses? No, thank you.
this is a good idea actually. I only do normal dungeons and would like to see the raids in normal mode. I dont care about the gear, i rather prefer to see the whole story unfold. I am tired of the gear score drama. also would be great if they added a new server. I haven't played for a couple of months so I dont know if eventually they will add more servers.
What you are describing here is Guild Wars, not World of Warcraft. The problem you seem to keep going back to is a purely player choice problem. You are sitting in a city when there is a world around you that you can explore and kill things in. Heck, there is even a new tradeskill that gives you something to fly around and do while the queue is ticking.
Really I understand your point of view to most of the stuff you said in the full quote of this, but I was trying to give mine from the perspective where mmorpg means a big game world where people do stuff, out there, which defines the game and the genre. Instancing everything meaningful does not make a game bad, WoW is not a bad game imo, but saying "The actual world of Azeroth remains one of WoW’s strongest assets" is a bit too much, in a game that centers around stuff that you could do just fine by lobby only.
"The reason I enjoy WoW is because it isn't a lack of content, but more the difficulty of the current content." It's true, if you love instances/raids most, WoW is a paradise. If you are looking for other stuff to do in a mmorpg fashion, out there, and maybe non instanced, there's basically nothing for you in WoW after leveling. It's all trivial, like professions and such that you grind up, you cant compare them to the only meaningful content that is done 100% instanced PvE and PvP.
Talking of GW in sense of upcoming games as I said, I dont know how guild wars 2 will turn out, but at least it's trying to provide openworld content with events where random people or a bunch of friends stumbles on and you have to find out what's going on and then solve the situation, and you can have multiple outcomes. Just to name one, and that's a huge one. It alone gives a huge purpose for the open world besides leveling. Even at max level you want to go out there and find all kinds of odd situations and events to complete and face the consequences. In WoW I know what's out there without even going there, as sure as I know that meaningful rewards comes from instanced/raid badges as gear and gear.
Again I want to say I really dont think or say WoW is a bad game, it's a great game, but it's also a game where if you loose interest in instances, you realize there's nothing left. It has plenty of instances in all shapes and sizes so it's all good as long as you like them, but still, even if it's one of the best definitions of a succesfull game, it's not the best definition of a mmorpg. It's a great game, but a simple mmorpg. Blizzard has said them self they have so big core flaws in the engine they cant really develop and expand WoW as much as they'd like to (the perfectly static world for one, phasing as emergency aid), and they also said they have adressed this in Titan for a lot more flexible engine and experience, cant wait for that for one.
It's kind of funny since I just started playing WoW with some friends after having not played it since release and Desolace post-Cata is the only zone I entirely skipped intentionally on my up from 1-60. Started a few missions there and just hated it.
Man, looking back at this is something else. I remember playing DAOC and starting to hear people say WoW all the time. Had no idea what they were talking about. Then a guildie told me and got me in the beta. I tested in the beta for a few months,
(I say tested...not just play4free) didn't like the cartoonishness of it and still liked DAOC's gameplay better. Then WoW came out, my entire guild quit, so I followed. Quit a month later.....5-6 years later and WoW is some huge mutant gorilla on the block that overshadowed and killed pretty much every other MMO out there. Who woulda thought it?
It'd be great if Blizzard added an in-game damage meter so that people who don't know any better can see how they perform compared to thers and maybe realize just how far behind they are andm hopefully, encourage them to improve.
Someone doing 5k dps in a heroic has no idea how bad that is unless they see that the rest of the group is doing twice that.
No offense, but players like you would probably be every bit as happy playing a console game. Keep repeating the same content over and over until you know exactly what to do at every second of every encounter and then can execute it perfectly. Somehow this gets equated to "skill." Unfortunately, it's not, it's learning something by rote and then perfecting it, like good penmanship. If the term "skill" can be applied to gaming in any context, it would be in regards to being able to react to an unexpected situation, assess what the challenges are and quickly devise a successful strategy to overcome it.
THIS is what's lacking in WoW....totally. Blizzard designs their encounters to be beaten a specific way using strategies the devs have devised and the players have merely discovered. The key making it any fun at all is to have things more random and allow the players to be creative in overcoming the situation, rather than just following Blizzard's script.
This sounds like it comes from a place of inexperience with content that is actually difficult. Sure, there are strategies out there for tackling bosses, but those are often created by players. Have you ever raided and defeated a boss before wowhead gives you the step-by-step guide? What about defeating a boss while it is current without a completely stacked raid?
That whole concept aside, how would you plan on implementing a system like this? Would each boss have a set number of mechanics from a pile of choices? Wouldn't that just mean that the raiders would have to figure out which mechanics they were going to deal with? So you want players who have to tackle mechanics on the fly? Try raiding new content with no guide. That's exactly the time I like playing WoW the most.
Figuring out a boss before the mechanics are posted in detail is what makes the game fun for me. If you think that scripted encounters aren't fun and don't require skill, I'm not sure what MMOs you would like.
As far as console games so, they do not offer the same group co-op experience that I enjoy, sorry.
So at level 85, what's fun is doing the same dailies over and over, while you wait to do the same raid/instance, over and over, to get gear that will be obsolete the day the next expansion comes out, however many years that may be? Three responses to this : A) see above; if PvP were to break out a little more often, that would make things a lot more interesting...unfortunately, most people just sit around and whine about the nasty hordies killing the auctioneers and; C) don't you get any sense of futility from all that?
I do not get a sense of futility. I enjoy new challenges and getting rewarded for overcoming those challenges. Why play any game that has expansions if you don't like upgrading your gear. Every game out there, when expanded, offers new content and new items/powers that replace the old ones. If you think that it is worthless, don't play it. But, honestly, you can't use upgrading as a reason the game isn't fun.
If you want PvP to break out more often, I'm not sure how to help you there. Battlegrounds and Rated BGs/Arenas are more fun now than in the past (for me). The changes to the MS debuff and addition of different mechanics for healers and dps really makes it a challenge. Sure, some teams are over-powered, but balancing such a complex system is pretty difficult, from what I've noticed.
Ummm....flying around Azeroth, time sinking your day away for 2 minutes of activity when you get to your destination is somehow fun? I don't even have a level 85 yet, mainly by choice (sort of my way of protesting how much of a failure Cata turned out to be) and I've seen every bit of the world content except some of Uldum, which I haven't bothered with because I lost interest. I already have my Explorer title, why bother? And even if I took the 10 minutes to fly over that little bit, what do I explore then?
Haha, I'm going to top here then. This paragraph shows that you have just not experienced the 85 content. How can I accept an honest opinion of something you've just experienced vicariously through other players and posts on forums. The dungeons and raids at the end game are so much different than they were in previous expansions. If you play them, you'll realize that skill really does factor in to how much you accomplish.
If you really want to come back and tell me that the grind isn't worth the outcome, at least reach and experience that outcome before you tell me how terrible it is.
What you are describing here is Guild Wars, not World of Warcraft. The problem you seem to keep going back to is a purely player choice problem. You are sitting in a city when there is a world around you that you can explore and kill things in. Heck, there is even a new tradeskill that gives you something to fly around and do while the queue is ticking.
Really I understand your point of view to most of the stuff you said in the full quote of this, but I was trying to give mine from the perspective where mmorpg means a big game world where people do stuff, out there, which defines the game and the genre. Instancing everything meaningful does not make a game bad, WoW is not a bad game imo, but saying "The actual world of Azeroth remains one of WoW’s strongest assets" is a bit too much, in a game that centers around stuff that you could do just fine by lobby only.
I agree that much of the things I enjoy could come from a lobby. I also agree that the world is not the game's strongest asset. Although, the update to the 1 - 60 world was (I think) one of the best updates they've done to the existing world.
"The reason I enjoy WoW is because it isn't a lack of content, but more the difficulty of the current content." It's true, if you love instances/raids most, WoW is a paradise. If you are looking for other stuff to do in a mmorpg fashion, out there, and maybe non instanced, there's basically nothing for you in WoW after leveling. It's all trivial, like professions and such that you grind up, you cant compare them to the only meaningful content that is done 100% instanced PvE and PvP.
Ok fine, I'll agree here too. Although I think you'd be hard pressed to get me to agree that it should be worked on more. I like the amount of time they spend on making meaningful and difficult encounters in pve. If they spent time trying to make more stuff for the world explorer or some other niche I'd be a bit miffed.
Talking of GW in sense of upcoming games as I said, I dont know how guild wars 2 will turn out, but at least it's trying to provide openworld content with events where random people or a bunch of friends stumbles on and you have to find out what's going on and then solve the situation, and you can have multiple outcomes. Just to name one, and that's a huge one. It alone gives a huge purpose for the open world besides leveling. Even at max level you want to go out there and find all kinds of odd situations and events to complete and face the consequences. In WoW I know what's out there without even going there, as sure as I know that meaningful rewards comes from instanced/raid badges as gear and gear.
I'd like to see this idea in practice. It would really depend on how random these events really were. You know someone out there would power through the areas hunting for random events just to unlock their rewards. Would that mean less events for the casual player? Probably. But, like I said, I'd have to see it.
Again I want to say I really dont think or say WoW is a bad game, it's a great game, but it's also a game where if you loose interest in instances, you realize there's nothing left. It has plenty of instances in all shapes and sizes so it's all good as long as you like them, but still, even if it's one of the best definitions of a succesfull game, it's not the best definition of a mmorpg. It's a great game, but a simple mmorpg. Blizzard has said them self they have so big core flaws in the engine they cant really develop and expand WoW as much as they'd like to (the perfectly static world for one, phasing as emergency aid), and they also said they have adressed this in Titan for a lot more flexible engine and experience, cant wait for that for one.
This didn't mention anything about what they did wrong. How about the fact that once you hit 60 outlands and northrend feel like you are stepping back in time and it feels a complete waste to level from 60-80. Or how about how boring and dull endgame is because it hasn't changed at all and only caters to the overly hardcore raiding playerbase. To me these are glaring issues with WoW and it won't be FUN again until these 2 aspects are changed.
Buy this man a beer I thought Id have to read through a tonne of comments before I got to someone with this decent simple insight.
I would have stayed for a while if they had actually created new classes. Who gives a hoot about new races. That held my attention for about 2 hours...
I love to do alts in wow. I had two issues with 1 to 60 content in Cata.
1: You level to quick and out grow the content in the zone by the time your half done with it.
2: It was to easy and brought zero challenge.
It's a shame for I liked the lore and how the story flowed in each zone with the new quest lines. I didn't like doing green / grey quests that came along before I was half way done with the zone. My choices were to skip content to try and keep my quest orange and yellow to get some kind of challenge or stay in the zone and do the green and grey quests and be bored to death.
Both of these options were not to my taste so I quit. Thank god Rift came along and brought some spark back to the MMO game that has been missing for quite some time for me.
I actually bought the Cataclysm Collector's Edition and a two month gametime card... and haven't played yet. Maybe I'm just burned out on WoW, but the incessant dumbing down was really getting to me by Wrath. I enjoyed the class specific quests, and exploring the world, finding out of the way random questgivers in remote parts, or just attractive areas of the game to travel around. Now it's all too linear, and battlegrounds are all super quick mad rushes. I can't be bothered. I could be a bit odd here, but I enjoyed battles that were long epic fights in both battlegrounds and large raids.
In short - little by little over the years everything I enjoyed about WoW was removed :-(
But nevermind - I'm back playing EverQuest 1 on the new Fippy timelocked progression server, and having a blast. I'm not sure I'll ever return to WoW.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
A.) Ok fine, I'll agree here too. Although I think you'd be hard pressed to get me to agree that it should be worked on more. I like the amount of time they spend on making meaningful and difficult encounters in pve. If they spent time trying to make more stuff for the world explorer or some other niche I'd be a bit miffed.
B.) I'd like to see this idea in practice. It would really depend on how random these events really were. You know someone out there would power through the areas hunting for random events just to unlock their rewards. Would that mean less events for the casual player? Probably. But, like I said, I'd have to see it.
A.) It's not up to funds at least, I'm sure no one can argue against that, I mean, to work on something else too, something to support their open world (I like warcraft lore, the original one mostly, and I'd love to see the world more alive).
B.) I need to see it too, I dont know how it will turn out, but at the very least it sounds like something to look forward, if it works as they advertise it. If I see a village under attack, then defend it, and the villagers are thankful and nice, and I come there later, and it's overrun by -insert here- there could be even emotional factor to the event, which would be cool. Anyway, if the village gets attacked at all, to begin with, it's a step in right direction instead of villages that for guaranteed will never ever get hit by even the critters. That is, from immersion perspective. As we know static-everything works too but I'm sure there's a big audience for stuff like this too.
What they should have done was kept the old world intact for 1-60 then when you complete northrend and return to the old world then phase it to the way it is now in cata but with levels 80-100. They already have the quests and content of the cataclysm so it's just a matter of changing levels.
That way you have more levels, more end game content and it preserves the storyline as well.
It'd be great if Blizzard added an in-game damage meter so that people who don't know any better can see how they perform compared to thers and maybe realize just how far behind they are andm hopefully, encourage them to improve.
Someone doing 5k dps in a heroic has no idea how bad that is unless they see that the rest of the group is doing twice that.
And in WoW is 99% percent based on gear (time sink) and 1% on skill.
Comments
Had i been a newcomer,reading this article,i'd have thought i am being told of a different game..a radically different game. Only i have been there,and know better. Was about to wonder, how many do you think you have fooled Tom? But sadly,i'd hazard more than enough..
I'll go back to wow when it stops over catering to the facebook gamers who whine about playing... 10man loot can never be equal to 25man loot. And I do not want to see same color/gear for 10 and 25mans. Gear sets should look different depending on your game commitment.
I likee the idea of what a pervious person was saying: normal instance, normal raids for the casuals. Heroic Instances, Heroic raids (and gear/stats should show it) for the hardcare guild. Less eppics pleas. They should feel special...
Is WoW one of those F2P games or something? Is it good?
I'm glad they made Cata, 'cos after 6 years of playing WoW they finally did something so crap it made me leave the game for good.
Before Cata came out I took the plung and paid for 6 months subs. I have never done that before. I thought of all the new stuff I'd be doing and thought I'd been here for 6 years, no reason to think they'd mess it up. WRONG. My healer druids got scewed over and that made me pay my priest that didn't feel scerwed over but made me quest what the hell I was doing. I maxed all my 3 chars, profs and all. I had 5 months left on my subs and left. I enjoyed almost none of the content. There was no way I was gonna relearn how to play my healers in a more efficient way after having baby mode for so long. I decided best thing I could do, was to leanr to play something else. After all, if you're gonna learn to play again, it may as well be something new.
I did miss WoW for a week or two, but now I'm more than over it. The only reason I'm here posting is because I recieved the email from MMORPG.com and saw that it mentioned CATA.
People, who got six years out of the game... why be bitter? Just move on already. Everything dies. There are so many new MMO's coming out this year. Branch out.
$15 a month won't buy you a life, but if you're as worked up as some of you are it might just take it away.
Cheers.
You will never reach your destination if you stop and throw stones at every dog that barks
~ WC
Sad thing being $15 a month DID buy some people a "life." Now they feel that "life" is being taken from them.
_______
|___
\_______/
=
|X| \*........*/ |X|
|X|_________|X|
You wouldn't understand
"BLIZZARD DID IT WRONG, THEY SHOULD DO IT MY WAY"...
Expected as much from the comments.
this is a good idea actually. I only do normal dungeons and would like to see the raids in normal mode. I dont care about the gear, i rather prefer to see the whole story unfold. I am tired of the gear score drama. also would be great if they added a new server. I haven't played for a couple of months so I dont know if eventually they will add more servers.
Really I understand your point of view to most of the stuff you said in the full quote of this, but I was trying to give mine from the perspective where mmorpg means a big game world where people do stuff, out there, which defines the game and the genre. Instancing everything meaningful does not make a game bad, WoW is not a bad game imo, but saying "The actual world of Azeroth remains one of WoW’s strongest assets" is a bit too much, in a game that centers around stuff that you could do just fine by lobby only.
"The reason I enjoy WoW is because it isn't a lack of content, but more the difficulty of the current content." It's true, if you love instances/raids most, WoW is a paradise. If you are looking for other stuff to do in a mmorpg fashion, out there, and maybe non instanced, there's basically nothing for you in WoW after leveling. It's all trivial, like professions and such that you grind up, you cant compare them to the only meaningful content that is done 100% instanced PvE and PvP.
Talking of GW in sense of upcoming games as I said, I dont know how guild wars 2 will turn out, but at least it's trying to provide openworld content with events where random people or a bunch of friends stumbles on and you have to find out what's going on and then solve the situation, and you can have multiple outcomes. Just to name one, and that's a huge one. It alone gives a huge purpose for the open world besides leveling. Even at max level you want to go out there and find all kinds of odd situations and events to complete and face the consequences. In WoW I know what's out there without even going there, as sure as I know that meaningful rewards comes from instanced/raid badges as gear and gear.
Again I want to say I really dont think or say WoW is a bad game, it's a great game, but it's also a game where if you loose interest in instances, you realize there's nothing left. It has plenty of instances in all shapes and sizes so it's all good as long as you like them, but still, even if it's one of the best definitions of a succesfull game, it's not the best definition of a mmorpg. It's a great game, but a simple mmorpg. Blizzard has said them self they have so big core flaws in the engine they cant really develop and expand WoW as much as they'd like to (the perfectly static world for one, phasing as emergency aid), and they also said they have adressed this in Titan for a lot more flexible engine and experience, cant wait for that for one.
Haters gonna hate.
It's kind of funny since I just started playing WoW with some friends after having not played it since release and Desolace post-Cata is the only zone I entirely skipped intentionally on my up from 1-60. Started a few missions there and just hated it.
Man, looking back at this is something else. I remember playing DAOC and starting to hear people say WoW all the time. Had no idea what they were talking about. Then a guildie told me and got me in the beta. I tested in the beta for a few months,
(I say tested...not just play4free) didn't like the cartoonishness of it and still liked DAOC's gameplay better. Then WoW came out, my entire guild quit, so I followed. Quit a month later.....5-6 years later and WoW is some huge mutant gorilla on the block that overshadowed and killed pretty much every other MMO out there. Who woulda thought it?
It'd be great if Blizzard added an in-game damage meter so that people who don't know any better can see how they perform compared to thers and maybe realize just how far behind they are andm hopefully, encourage them to improve.
Someone doing 5k dps in a heroic has no idea how bad that is unless they see that the rest of the group is doing twice that.
Doktar - 70 Troll Priest - Perenolde
Try to do better with all their boundaries. Whining is easy when you give no better solutions.
Doktar - 70 Troll Priest - Perenolde
Buy this man a beer I thought Id have to read through a tonne of comments before I got to someone with this decent simple insight.
I would have stayed for a while if they had actually created new classes. Who gives a hoot about new races. That held my attention for about 2 hours...
Back to Rift
You jest, surely?
How much easier does it need to be? Click a lever and the boss drops epics?
Our greatest glory is not in never falling but in rising everytime we fall.
I love to do alts in wow. I had two issues with 1 to 60 content in Cata.
1: You level to quick and out grow the content in the zone by the time your half done with it.
2: It was to easy and brought zero challenge.
It's a shame for I liked the lore and how the story flowed in each zone with the new quest lines. I didn't like doing green / grey quests that came along before I was half way done with the zone. My choices were to skip content to try and keep my quest orange and yellow to get some kind of challenge or stay in the zone and do the green and grey quests and be bored to death.
Both of these options were not to my taste so I quit. Thank god Rift came along and brought some spark back to the MMO game that has been missing for quite some time for me.
In short - little by little over the years everything I enjoyed about WoW was removed :-(
But nevermind - I'm back playing EverQuest 1 on the new Fippy timelocked progression server, and having a blast. I'm not sure I'll ever return to WoW.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
A.) It's not up to funds at least, I'm sure no one can argue against that, I mean, to work on something else too, something to support their open world (I like warcraft lore, the original one mostly, and I'd love to see the world more alive).
B.) I need to see it too, I dont know how it will turn out, but at the very least it sounds like something to look forward, if it works as they advertise it. If I see a village under attack, then defend it, and the villagers are thankful and nice, and I come there later, and it's overrun by -insert here- there could be even emotional factor to the event, which would be cool. Anyway, if the village gets attacked at all, to begin with, it's a step in right direction instead of villages that for guaranteed will never ever get hit by even the critters. That is, from immersion perspective. As we know static-everything works too but I'm sure there's a big audience for stuff like this too.
exactly
And in WoW is 99% percent based on gear (time sink) and 1% on skill.