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pay to win epidemic
TomWoodrow
Member Posts: 49
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?385631-Bullroarer-LOTRO-Store-Updates-3-9-11
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?385633-Feedback-Bullroarer-LOTRO-Store-Update-3-9-11
join us on seastone (btw no cash shop to run your bank account dry)
http://forums.riftgame.com/showthread.php?83070-Lotro-Players&s=d555bfc9e2f4d22851c5359cb80e5b27
Comments
It already was there, the tomes that permanently improves your abilities with absolutely ridiculous drop rate, but with a kinda cheap price at the store.
REALITY CHECK
Sometimes people are very affected by these things.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
yup but they are adding a lot more including LI items that are clearly pay to win even to the most avid LOTRO fanboys out there
join us on seastone (btw no cash shop to run your bank account dry)
http://forums.riftgame.com/showthread.php?83070-Lotro-Players&s=d555bfc9e2f4d22851c5359cb80e5b27
It was very entertaining seeing some of the die hard fanoys that poo poo'd on those of us that warned about what F2P will really mean and what it would become, crying in that official thread about the store update.
People have been warning about this for months, not surprised and this update will dramaticaly change the core playerbase as it will chase off many long time players were all that are left are those that embrace the store and what it means.
Lotro and Turbine are no longer playing with the big boys and are relegated into the realm of cheap, sell their soul, F2P games.
Hopefully this game meets a swift death so that someone down the line can make a game befitting of Tolkeins beautiful world.
i agree 100%
join us on seastone (btw no cash shop to run your bank account dry)
http://forums.riftgame.com/showthread.php?83070-Lotro-Players&s=d555bfc9e2f4d22851c5359cb80e5b27
http://www.moddb.com/mods/merp-middle-earth-roleplaying-mod
Just sayin'
If it is items that affect the balance of pvp fights then I can understand the problem otherwise I dont see how it is anyone elses business how I choose to play my pve game(some people have more time to spend behind a computer where others need to spend it at a grindstone somewhere earning an income to pay the bills).If it is pve stuff I find it falling into the category of MYOFB and play the game the way you want to play it-dont buy the stuff and enjoy your stress free life and dont worry how someone else wants to play their game.
This is the typical "response" from pro ftp players.
At what point does it stop being a game and just become a casual, visual social network?
Dont take my word for it fine, but wait until the mainstream population gets wind of this, its only being talked about on the test server forums,. When it hits you will se just how many "care" about the trivializing adn monetization of a core gameplay mechanic like the LI system.
I have to say that I think I tired an earlier version of this mod. there wasn't a lot to it at the time but I remember looking off of the top of Minas Tirith and thinking to myself that I was getting a greater feeling of being in middle earth than any time in LOTRO.
It was quite a profound experience.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I haven't played this game since Christmas Eve but all the additions seem to be more of the same stuff that was already in the store...except for the legendary item packages. All of which seem to be customizations ..so you can have an item more fitting your class and style of play. They just don't seem like play-to-win additions. Maybe I'm missing something.
I have to thank you Sovrath for introducing me to this actually. Unfortunately the old build is 'offline' at the moment, but they say a new build should be released soon. When I watch the trailer, and you walk through Bree, I feel like I'm actually in the Bree of my imagination.
I've also seen trailers where they've modded combat to allow for mounted attacks. It's pretty sweet.
It's innovation. Maybe someday they'll catch up to the other F2Ps and flash advertising like...
"Hurry buy uber-leet potions from cash shop, half-off for a limited time only".
Its pretty obvious you didnt read the store update thread in the OP by your first response. Thats why you get called out on generic pro store response "Some of us dont have the time to play ......blah blah blah"
Well....what does that have to do with store exclusive content? ............nothing, thats what.
Im not pro or anti store. I am agaisnt Turbine going back on stated intentions for the store, I am against pay2win, and thats what Lotro is turning into.
Do you have a LI?
They get special abilities, called legacies, which basically dramatically improve a classes skill (which are the main way of doing damage or things in combat in the game). These are generated completely at random, from two different pools.
The catch is, most of these are completely worthless. Like you might get a legacy that boosts your skill that lets you run faster. So you have to constantly acquire new LIs over and over and over until you get one that doesn't suck (and you don't know this until you level it up to level 30)
Beyond that, since the level cap is fixed at 65 , your LIs basically are your character's power progression. Want to hit harder? The only way is maxing out a legacy for a skill that does more damage.
So in essence, the only way to max our your characters power is to max our your LIs. And how do you do that? Well, there is still always the grind (which is awful), but now you can spend your way at the Turbine cash shop. Ka-ching! Ka-ching! Ka-ching!
And beyond that, the grind is bad but basic LIs drop like water. But the good LIs, the second (and in the patch, first) age rlics are very hard to get and/or expensive. So only the richest of players can afford to grind through. Most people just have to make do, or give up and use a non-LI, or stick with a 3rd age that is vastly inferior.
So the only option for most people is the cash shop.
Had Turbine really wanted to address this problem (which is a big one), they would have done something like made the LIs work like Skirmish soldiers. With that, you can customize your solider the way you like. Sure, you need to grind a bit to get some of the options for it, but it's not bad at all.
Instead, Turbine went the item mall route. Unless you pay, forget about having a decent LI (unless you spend your life in the game, which I guess is what most supporters do).
(And to the poster above me, there already are uber healing potions in the game...)
R.I.P. City of Heroes and my 17 characters there
The point alone that in the end-game you need to play a lot to improve your skills marginally (let's say 20 hours to improve +1%, another 20 hours for +0.5%, then another 20 hours for +0.3%,... and so on) is all right. What's wrong with this system is, that you may spend a few days farming for something, which then turns out to be totally useless for your build. Then you repeat the whole process, and you again get useless legacies, and then again and again and again. It's extremely demotivating.
The system could be made in so many better ways, that it's shocking to see they chosed basically the worst possible way, where you get random legacies (from a pool of legacies that mostly contain legacies you don't really need or want).
REALITY CHECK
Well thanks to Dredphyre for reposting the link.
As far as this whole "pay to win" thing, it's a bit of a gray area.
"yes" on the surface you have to pay through the store to get added slots to your L.I.'s. My first thought was "ouch babe" where are you going with this.
Except that all players get turbine points, whether they pay a sub or not.
so one can make the decision to use their points to update their L.I.'s without paying a dime. Of course that's the theory. In practice it does invite people to pay for more points in order to make the update.
Still, if one wanted to avail themselves they just have to wait until their points acrue.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Do you have a LI?
They get special abilities, called legacies, which basically dramatically improve a classes skill (which are the main way of doing damage or things in combat in the game). These are generated completely at random, from two different pools.
The catch is, most of these are completely worthless. Like you might get a legacy that boosts your skill that lets you run faster. So you have to constantly acquire new LIs over and over and over until you get one that doesn't suck (and you don't know this until you level it up to level 30)
Beyond that, since the level cap is fixed at 65 , your LIs basically are your character's power progression. Want to hit harder? The only way is maxing out a legacy for a skill that does more damage.
So in essence, the only way to max our your characters power is to max our your LIs. And how do you do that? Well, there is still always the grind (which is awful), but now you can spend your way at the Turbine cash shop. Ka-ching! Ka-ching! Ka-ching!
And beyond that, the grind is bad but basic LIs drop like water. But the good LIs, the second (and in the patch, first) age rlics are very hard to get and/or expensive. So only the richest of players can afford to grind through. Most people just have to make do, or give up and use a non-LI, or stick with a 3rd age that is vastly inferior.
So the only option for most people is the cash shop.
Had Turbine really wanted to address this problem (which is a big one), they would have done something like made the LIs work like Skirmish soldiers. With that, you can customize your solider the way you like. Sure, you need to grind a bit to get some of the options for it, but it's not bad at all.
Instead, Turbine went the item mall route. Unless you pay, forget about having a decent LI (unless you spend your life in the game, which I guess is what most supporters do).
(And to the poster above me, there already are uber healing potions in the game...)
Thanks for explaining. i see now why this would piss someone off.
Barcrow's rundown is accurate,that is fact. It is also however very one-sided
We run and grinded and raided and farmed skirmishes for our LIs for years now..with no particular trouble..let alone that if you farm your mats for your profs while you level,if you do even less than half of the deeds,if you even only occasionally work the AH,by the time you are top,you will have more than enough money to just buy from AH,making money in Lotro is a joke..be it the item itself,or the mats you need to upgrade it/enrich it,won't go into details as some may not be familiar here, it is piss to acquire it. Bottom line is, no, you do not need the cash shop. It is there for those lacking patience, interest in the long run, or discipline enough to make themselves work for their gear. Its been clockwork for years before this [F2P},i will say again. And if this doesn't give people the right idea? Let me add just this more: Thsi game is so,but so easy to play,so non challenging compared to modern(ish) MMOS,it is a joke for hardcore players..joke.i love it,i been playing it for a long time now,but fact is fact..it is very easy. There is not much stopping you from getting to the top. Do not let it get into your heads that any of this cash shop things is an essential in order to be raid gear competitive,in order to solo the 'fat lewt' places,or whatever..far from it..It is in fact the easiest mmo i have ever played so far,and i been on all AAA mmos since daoc,barring only ff14. Lacking the money or will to buy from shop does not restrict in any way,whatsoever
I wasn't aware that it was such a hard task to get one's relevant stats to the 650 cap, with buffs and any kind of good gear. Especially when the new sets that don't bother with Radiance come out.
Important facts:
1. Free to Play games are poorly made.
2. Casuals are not all idiots, but idiots call themselves casuals.
3. Great solo and group content are not mutually exclusive, but they suffer when one is shoved into the mold of the other. The same is true of PvP and PvE.
4. Community is more important than you think.
It's not. There really isn't a "pay to win" epeidemic in LOTRO. There are some things that i don't think should be in the store because I think they should solely be player crafted.
Also, what do you win? Any item in the store can be obtained in game. Some are more rare and you either have to make a concerted effort to get them or buy them for a lot of in game money. For those who don't want to wait that is where they would go to the store.
Now, there are some items that seem store exclusive but we do earn points througout game play so it is possible after a longer time to get these by saving these points up.
LOTRO's f2p capitalizes on the idea that people want things "now" so they might not wait.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Pay2Win what? It's not that LotRo has real PvP (unless you think PvMP is PvP - to me it's a gank-fest and I'm not going to Evermoors).
Is players want to Pay2Win PvE, then go ahead and spoil the game for yourself and others (party members / kinship members). If someone in my parte would have all traits to 10, then I'd just leave him and let him play solo, because that's the only reason those boosts are there.
And cheap..? Dunno... IIRC they are 700TP, and that's about $5, right? You have about 15 traits you can raise and with an avarage of 5 raises till max around level 30, you'll need 75 of those, meaning $375 for only a couple of traits to the max. No offence, but I'll pass on that. Better get some (cheaper) XP pots and level to cap faster. At least, I guess the only reason to boost traits is to hit cap faster, right..?
honestly, you should be talking about things you do not understand. I have never seen so many inexactitudes about LIs in one post.
Good LIs are not buyable with TP or in theLOTRO store. Endgame Gear is not buyable in the LOTRO store. You need to work to get them, but now what, you pretend to have Second Age Weapons without making any effort? So what's the point of endgaming then?
as soon as the F2P announcement was made, I deleted the game from my computer. I will never play it again.
It's a damn shame, because I really liked LOTRO, for a themepark.
And I, along with many others, predicted this eventuality....and we were told that we didn't know what we were talking about, that the game wouldn't change, bla bla.
Few things are as predictable as corporate greed.