SWTOR Lazy Crafting "Best of Both Worlds"

gwbrew · March 2011

I loved SWG's crafting system.. did it need a little work? sure.. but overall the best crafting in a game that doesn't have a server reset (A tale in the desert) and looks decent to the eyes (Wurm).. Crafters.. real Crafters.. those that would spend years to do nothing other than walk around and gather and make.. test and try.. poke and bang are being ignored.. yes ignored.

This system of "best for both worlds" isn't best for both worlds.. When is an MMO in this day and age gonna get it. Crafters .. real Crafters..want to be major classes.. not secondary skilled. I was thrilled to hear someone was going to be taking the SW name away from SOE and hoped that they would make a killer game with a killer crafting system too boot..

The fact that one can let their associates on board go out and collect needed good to craft.. takes away from true crafting.. Stop this trying to have it both ways crap.. I'm sorry but you either have a game where crafting is a major class that builds complicated and time consuming items worthy of the vendor... or you just have crap people can make and really does nothing for an economy.

Having it both ways.. isn't having it both ways.. It is really only having it one way.. The PVE/PVPer that wants to run run run through the levels to see who can be the most bored the quickest.

Sorry Bioware, but you are missing an opprotunity to be great.. but instead you are choosing the lazy way..

I want to see crafting stations/harvestors/changing minerals/rare minerals... etc DECAY!!!!!! There is no good economy without an item loosing something eventualy.. It's just reality as a part of death.. If we didn't have decay irl we wouldn't need much.

I don't want to be stuck with a watered down version of "Having it both ways" nobody wins there..How about we have it one way.. Major class: Artisan: ->progression.. building useful stuff.. NOT Jedi Knight the crafter.. that just been played out WAY too much in MMOs.

immodium · March 2011

Voted for Happy with direction SWTOR is taking.

I have heard the devs mention if you want to be an expert/master crafter where your goods are more sought after than others, you can.

Which sounds great.

Caskio · March 2011

The crafting in SWTOR reminds me of crafting in Grand Fantasia. That was the only crafting I actually enjoyed.

I played SWG for years and I hated crafting. It was too complicated to get into and do well. Plus I hate item decay. I hate losing an item I worked hard for but lost because I forgot to insure or died too many times and couldn't prevent it.

sJenksFTW · March 2011

But you don't HAVE to let your companions go gather for you. If YOU want to go gather and craft everything you can. But some of us like crafting to support our playstyle, not actually having it BE our playstyle. So I went with happy with current direction it is going.

JuJutsu · March 2011

Easy vote; current direction is best.

nomss · March 2011

I think the OP have typo there, it should be What instead of Why in the poll question.

gwbrew · March 2011

Yes.. What .. not Why.. I can't edit it either, sorry.. I am not the best forums poster.

Sovrath · March 2011

I voted Old School SWG with decay. EVE's crafting would also be a pick.

Why? Especially because I hate crafting?

Because crafting has to be something more than just "somethign else to do". As long as I can make my money gathering materials or selling vendor trash and don't have to invest time in playing the market (I'm through with that from my L2 days) then I don't mind buying from players.

But my thought is that only dedicated or die hard crafters should be able to make higher end impressive gear/items.

Another thought that I've always had was allow players to customize their items. Some cosmetic things could be done (a la this neverwinter nights trainer I had way back) and if the gear has stats then allow the crafter to pick certain stats and maybe even push certian stats while taking minuses that force a real decision.

So not "oh I'll maximize strength but minus intelligence" for a warrior unless a minus in intelligence really affected what the warrior could do.

Robsolf · March 2011

In terms of the different ways crafting can be done, I'm good with SWToR's direction.

But I hope that crafting makes for a great deal of item customization, as it did with SWG. You could make weapon barrels, batteries, etc, and they could have many different properties and buff your weapon in many different ways. Different color clothes, armor, etc.

If they went with an SWG-ish system, I'd be happy with that, too. But I'm just glad that it sounds like there's not going to be a big material grind where I'm crafting X number of useless, underpowered widgets to get crafting XP. That just seems like a waste.

Sovrath · March 2011

Originally posted by Robsolf
In terms of the different ways crafting can be done, I'm good with SWToR's direction.

But I hope that crafting makes for a great deal of item customization, as it did with SWG. You could make weapon barrels, batteries, etc, and they could have many different properties and buff your weapon in many different ways. Different color clothes, armor, etc.

If they went with an SWG-ish system, I'd be happy with that, too. But I'm just glad that it sounds like there's not going to be a big material grind where I'm crafting X number of useless, underpowered widgets to get crafting XP. That just seems like a waste.

Well, one of my issues with crafting (in order for me to actually do it) is the collecting of bits to make bits that are put together to make more bits until you have an item.

It's very tedious to my tastes. So that is why I like the npc gatherer idea in SWToR.

But that's just lowering the barrer that exists in some games in order for me to try my hand at crafting.

AkuheiKoyi · March 2011

I vote for and liked the SWG with decay. It gives crafters a better feeling they are wanted and needed at all times by supplying the community ever more. Now the only thing that makes this null though, are the high end raid gear that makes everything else obsolete, and I think that should not be the only means of acquiring high level gear. It should also be possible to craft it if you're not one that enjoys raiding.

Ratero · March 2011

I personally LOVED the way SWG did bio engineering so you could gather your own dna, enzymes and energy then put them in a huge tank which allowd you to create pets with actual stats with the possibility of mutations. This one feature complelled me to play SWG since it was so complex, exensive to do and at the same time was like a surprise when you got a great pet.

kegtap · March 2011

Originally posted by Sovrath
But my thought is that only dedicated or die hard crafters should be able to make higher end impressive gear/items.

Does player manufacturing have a place in the game economy?

DE: Crafting is a passion of mine. We're not EVE. We're loot based, but we're past WoW, more complex and a lot of social of interaction. To get gear, you'll either be pounding end game or gathering a network of crafters.

They won't be the sole source but a viable option to get the best gear in the game.

I voted for liking the direction swtor is going. The option is there to create the best gear in the game and most likley the die hard crafters will be the only crafters making it.

Sovrath · March 2011

Originally posted by kegtap

Originally posted by Sovrath

But my thought is that only dedicated or die hard crafters should be able to make higher end impressive gear/items.

Does player manufacturing have a place in the game economy?

DE: Crafting is a passion of mine. We're not EVE. We're loot based, but we're past WoW, more complex and a lot of social of interaction. To get gear, you'll either be pounding end game or gathering a network of crafters.

They won't be the sole source but a viable option to get the best gear in the game.

I voted for liking the direction swtor is going. The option is there to create the best gear in the game and most likley the die hard crafters will be the only crafters making it.

My comment is more of a comment on crafting in general. If that's how SWToR is going then that's very good. but I see too many players who have top levels, top gear, top crafting, top gathering top, top top.

So it goes to that line "when everyone is special no one is". I'd like to see games go back to where people can differentiate themselves.

AkuheiKoyi · March 2011

Originally posted by Sovrath
So it goes to that line "when everyone is special no one is". I'd like to see games go back to where people can differentiate themselves.

EQ Tunnel in Commonlands...damned skippy! Those were the days, shouting for SoW, selling pristine bear pelts to the few crafters that could make bags. Community is everything!

deniter · March 2011

I voted for the old SWG style crafting. If crafting really was a big and meaningful trade in this game, I'd actually get interested of this game. Otherwise it's just 'meh'.

gwbrew · March 2011

Exactly..If everyone can produce the same quality goods.. why have crafting? Just make the finished item drop somewhere so it can be bought and sold on an AH. If you are going to have crafting.. make it to where crafters depends on other crafters and the economy to produce higher and lower quality items depending on demand.. People starting off can only afford lower quality goods.. people who are raiding, should be able to bring their gear to a craftsman to have it altered.. maybe it doesn't fit properly.. (One size fits all drops) There is a lot that can be done in the way of building a PVE/PVP game around crafting.. versus building crafting around a PVE/PVP game.. my OP point was.. "Having it both ways" is not a win for people who want a game to be Major classed as Crafter.. if you don't have that there is no real point in having crafting.. which takes us back to the start of this paragraph.

kegtap · March 2011

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by kegtap

Originally posted by Sovrath
But my thought is that only dedicated or die hard crafters should be able to make higher end impressive gear/items.

Does player manufacturing have a place in the game economy?

DE: Crafting is a passion of mine. We're not EVE. We're loot based, but we're past WoW, more complex and a lot of social of interaction. To get gear, you'll either be pounding end game or gathering a network of crafters.

They won't be the sole source but a viable option to get the best gear in the game.

I voted for liking the direction swtor is going. The option is there to create the best gear in the game and most likley the die hard crafters will be the only crafters making it.

My comment is more of a comment on crafting in general. If that's how SWToR is going then that's very good. but I see too many players who have top levels, top gear, top crafting, top gathering top, top top.

So it goes to that line "when everyone is special no one is". I'd like to see games go back to where people can differentiate themselves.

I can totally agree with that.

montin · March 2011

I remember playing the first day SWG came out and making my very own droids. Sure it was buggy as hell, droid making at least. But it was fun and I say that as one of the people who thinks of crafting as a major class. Indeed I'd prefer to level up a crafter than have to kill stuff. Anyway I digress. As for this new take on star wars, I'm simply going to wait until its released. Buy the game and give it a try for myself.

Until them. Death to all jedi.

gekkothegrey · March 2011

Xyson has the right idea for this not sure if they have the money to pull it off though. I do love the idea of animals going in and

out of season, weather affecting the way you have to hunt or fish them. I really wish a major mmo would try this or at least give

swg style crafting. I am playing EQ2 which has better crafting and housing then 99.8% of games, but its still not where it

should be. I wish EQ3 would have the kind of crafting Xyson is trying to do. The problem is everyone is trying to make a wow

clone thinking they will be the next one to get millions of subcribers, but they are forgot how wow got that many. At the time wow

came out most mmorpgs came out very unfinished, and not polished wow was so they did something different. Now however

its not enough to just be polished ie "rift" which will face dive after first month imo, someone with the money to do it right

needs to try to do some things different that other mmos do not have, and that will be the mmo that gets and keeps millions

like wow.

DeathTouch · March 2011

some of the crafting you all are talking about reminds me of DAoC's crafting. anything crafted decayed with use. as a spell crafter you put the stats on the armor. you had so much stat room to use, you could over charge the item and most of the time it went BOOOM! and so did you. hope you have a rez nearby or it was a corpse run.

I like the way eve is for everything being player made, dont like they way its done.

i would vote for the way DAoC did it. might be the same as others on your list that i havent played though.

Solestran · March 2011

I don't care for crafting, but I have to wonder why you crafting types keep crying about adventure games that don't focus more on crafting? Why not play games like Ryzom, A Tale in the Desert, Istaria, Eve, FFXIV and so forth that are essentially crafting simulators with adventuring on the side.

You do realize that crafting and adventuring are competing game styles? In order to make crafting meaningful, you have to reduce or even eliminate adventuring rewards and incentives to favor those of crafting products and components. Not exactly fun for the adventurer, don't you think.

Stop haunting adventure games to push your crafting agenda and just play a damn crafting game already.

DarkPony · March 2011

I love the idea that you get to have companions with specialisms in crafting, etc. That you get to send them out on missions to collect rare stuff and that they get to learn and get better at their trades along with you. You can always gather yourself as well (and in flash points there won't be companions to do it for you).

We have yet to learn the ins and outs of crafting: calling it lazy is jumping to conclusions I think. So far we have only got a glimpse of crew skills.

Managing your crew and their tasks is something that really adds meaning to companions (rather than just having them as sidekicks in combat), and they make your player home / ship a more lively place. I think it's genius to combine companions with crafting and gathering, but like I said, we'll still need to wait and see how crafting really pans out.

gekkothegrey · March 2011

Originally posted by Solestran
I don't care for crafting, but I have to wonder why you crafting types keep crying about adventure games that don't focus more on crafting? Why not play games like Ryzom, A Tale in the Desert, Istaria, Eve, FFXIV and so forth that are essentially crafting simulators with adventuring on the side.

You do realize that crafting and adventuring are competing game styles? In order to make crafting meaningful, you have to reduce or even eliminate adventuring rewards and incentives to favor those of crafting products and components. Not exactly fun for the adventurer, don't you think.

Stop haunting adventure games to push your crafting agenda and just play a damn crafting game already.

The reason for this is "A tale in the desert has very low end graphics and nothing but crafting" Eve is great but some ppl just can not get into a game you spend so much time only in ship" FFXIV really lol? That is just the worst game, I was so butt hurt over it I pre-ordered that game as I was a big FFXI fan, and I ended up playing the game for around 12hr and then cancel my sub". The others you mention I have not tried other then Ryzom but I do not remember much about that game.

Sovrath · March 2011

Originally posted by Solestran
I don't care for crafting, but I have to wonder why you crafting types keep crying about adventure games that don't focus more on crafting? Why not play games like Ryzom, A Tale in the Desert, Istaria, Eve, FFXIV and so forth that are essentially crafting simulators with adventuring on the side.

You do realize that crafting and adventuring are competing game styles? In order to make crafting meaningful, you have to reduce or even eliminate adventuring rewards and incentives to favor those of crafting products and components. Not exactly fun for the adventurer, don't you think.

Stop haunting adventure games to push your crafting agenda and just play a damn crafting game already.

Well, I don't like crafting either but I have to disagree with you.

they are not competing game types. Only competing in the way some games have implemented them.

For instance, In Lineage 2 all gear with the exception of some special items dropped by bosses (an earring, a ring, etc) was craftable. However, one could do a raid and there would be a chance that some of that gear would be present as a reward.

Of course there was risk in crafting higher lvl gear so raiding for it was a way that one could get a high end piece of gear without trying and, failing and losing half your mats.

Another thing you might consider (and if I was to make a game this is how I would do it) is that adventurers could get high end mats that are only obtainalbe through certain raids. These mats could then be used by a crafter to make high end goods.

So using dragon scales in armor or weapons, finding an old arcane sword that, when reforged/crafted could become something of value. Incnorporating alien technology into new weapons and armor or ship components, etc.

It's just that "certain" games have gone the route of "do a raid and get better gear".

Crafters should be supporting adventurers and adventurers should be bringing new and intersting materials to crafters so they can experiment with them.

musicmann · March 2011

Once again some people won't and didn't take the time to read on how TOR's crafting set's itself apart from alot of other mmo's. Sure it is not as detailed as SWG was but the system seems pretty flexible and as long as the crafted itmes are on par with other items that are obtainable from raids and pvp, then all is golden.

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