That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Have you not heard of exploration before? Having big zones with spots not occupied by quest mobs/hubs is perfect for that. As soon as exploration is completely removed by "utilizing every spot in a zone" the game simply becomes a directed grind (moreso than it already would be).
Yes exploring empty zones is very fun.
That isn't what I'm talking about. I'd improve upon my reading comprehension if I were you. FYI the large zones arent completely empty and are meant to be explored (shh don't tell anyone)
Hmm not sure if i was clear but my point was WoW at release did not have any thing to explore in those zones (Azshara, sithilus etc), content was added in later patches including quest hub. No way can you compare WoW at its current state (6 years of content) with Rift.
That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Have you not heard of exploration before? Having big zones with spots not occupied by quest mobs/hubs is perfect for that. As soon as exploration is completely removed by "utilizing every spot in a zone" the game simply becomes a directed grind (moreso than it already would be).
Yes exploring empty zones is very fun.
That isn't what I'm talking about. I'd improve upon my reading comprehension if I were you. FYI the large zones arent completely empty and are meant to be explored (shh don't tell anyone)
Hmm not sure if i was clear but my point was WoW at release did not have any thing to explore in those zones (Azshara, sithilus etc), content was added in later patches including quest hub. No way can you compare WoW at its current state (6 years of content) with Rift.
Yes, that is very true. I know what you mean about Azshara... however I'd rather have a zone in there that I could check out if I wanted (even if its purpose wasn't apparent yet) than have a tiny, limited world. I hated walking anywhere in Rift because something would aggro you EVERYWHERE and it did its best to discourage exploration. The only place I really ever explored was deep under the ocean.
WoW on release had tons of "blank space" which I guess was fun to explore just in case that blank space had something. Rift can easily add more land (I hope they do). Btw who made the maps for comparison?
However, as someone's who has played 1-max level many times in WoW... the quests are not more original than Rift.. the stories aren't better... you guys sound like the DAoC vets claiming daoc had perfect balance in pvp.
Rift has issues but lets not put on rose colored WoW fanboy glasses. What will hurt Rift in the end will probably be WAR style herpderp nerfs and the watering down of their more unique classes. Not the amount of land a player must traverse. My prediction anyway.
If I had my way I'd have a few mega servers with multiple starting points, few more races and better class balance.
There is no discussion. In another thread, it was shown that the complete world of Rift fits into 1/3 of Kalimdor (or Eastern Kingdoms for that matter).
Here is the "scale" to compare just one basic WOW continent with the complete world of Rift. This means the basic WOW alone was 6x the complete world of Rift. Add all the expansions and many more dungeons and BG's and you end up paying for 12 times less content.
For the rest you're nitpicking on words. Of course you can level 6 by leveling 6 different zones in WOW from 1 - 60. You not only have 2 continents for those 60 levels you also have around 2 to 3 choices in which to level per continent.
Everyone can see for themselves : By sheer volume and variety, there is hardly an argument.
As for the quality of the quests: story based, changing lore based and changing worlds through phasing don't show up at all.
Neither has the game underwater quests or flying quests, which all add up to ... variety.
That's the difference.
Again, taking things out of context. This map is a comparison of actually game size, it is a comparison of player base size. You will note the scale on the side comparing 11+ million players to 4+ million players. I am not saying Rift has that many players, I am pointing out that this map comparison was taken out of context and used improperly.
If you compare the maps on the same play scale then my original comment about the playable map in Rift being 1.5x that of Eastern Kingdoms is still valid. Taking an arbitrary map and using completely out of context does not make your point.
There is no discussion. In another thread, it was shown that the complete world of Rift fits into 1/3 of Kalimdor (or Eastern Kingdoms for that matter).
Here is the "scale" to compare just one basic WOW continent with the complete world of Rift. This means the basic WOW alone was 6x the complete world of Rift. Add all the expansions and many more dungeons and BG's and you end up paying for 12 times less content.
For the rest you're nitpicking on words. Of course you can level 6 by leveling 6 different zones in WOW from 1 - 60. You not only have 2 continents for those 60 levels you also have around 2 to 3 choices in which to level per continent.
Everyone can see for themselves : By sheer volume and variety, there is hardly an argument.
As for the quality of the quests: story based, changing lore based and changing worlds through phasing don't show up at all.
Neither has the game underwater quests or flying quests, which all add up to ... variety.
That's the difference.
Again, taking things out of context. This map is a comparison of actually game size, it is a comparison of player base size. You will note the scale on the side comparing 11+ million players to 4+ million players. I am not saying Rift has that many players, I am pointing out that this map comparison was taken out of context and used improperly.
Lol, that is Mil (should be Mi) as in miles, not million players. Haha I'm sorry but I'm actually laughing out loud... "the world this this long so it has THIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIS many players!"
Rift is boring to me because of one thing : quests, ok i lied its more then one. I'm tired of uninspired quests, I could complete 3000 quests in EQ2, here i can't complete 100, something is very wrong with the quest system to me. It doesn't encourage me to quest at all.
Also, i've played since headstart, I'm level 47 i haven't quested much at all and not played a lot at all. the levelling is extremely fast if I enjoyed questing I easily could be 50 in 3 weeks with normal play time of a mmo.
I think around 900 quests with killing mobs and doing the dungys atleast once will get you to 50 without any grinding at all. also what worries me is the future at 50, what happens theres no need to do quests at all, theres re- running expert modes, raiding and looking for rifts. That sounds terribly boring in my estimates.
This has done nothing new at all, Rifts will get used to fast, theyre allready familar by me, the soul system can be a good thing but it's also a bad thing, for me its better off without, as theres no need to make alts because of it as it stands, aswell you don't feel as "special" everyone has got your role covered, we are all equal in this game and no individuality. all tanks are equal, the rogue tanks as good as the cleric, the cleric tanks as good as the warrior etc perhaps a bit more diversity is needed or thats what I think. At the lower levels this isn't obvious but at te higher levels expect most people to have this all covered.
The crafting is boring too no surpises there, a good mmo all around is EQ2, in all instances i did with EQ2 there was a lot of banter ex people would joke at you for being a ratonga/ froglok/ troll/ ogre/ halfling, perhaps it's just my unlucky self but in Rift it feels as the party is AI they never talk just when they leave, It's a lifeless feel even in rifts there is no talking only on chat channels and warfronts is there any life.
Rift lacks any feel to it, it just shows you that we're going to be grinding for gear at the end and the journey isn't even close to fun. the only "fun" diversions they have at the moment is warfronts (PVP) "sigh" & crafting.......
Rift is boring to me because of one thing : quests, ok i lied its more then one. I'm tired of uninspired quests, I could complete 3000 quests in EQ2, here i can't complete 100, something is very wrong with the quest system to me. It doesn't encourage me to quest at all.
Also, i've played since headstart, I'm level 47 i haven't quested much at all and not played a lot at all. the levelling is extremely fast if I enjoyed questing I easily could be 50 in 3 weeks with normal play time of a mmo.
I think around 900 quests with killing mobs and doing the dungys atleast once will get you to 50 without any grinding at all. also what worries me is the future at 50, what happens theres no need to do quests at all, theres re- running expert modes, raiding and looking for rifts. That sounds terribly boring in my estimates.
This has done nothing new at all, Rifts will get used to fast, theyre allready familar by me, the soul system can be a good thing but it's also a bad thing, for me its better off without, as theres no need to make alts because of it as it stands, aswell you don't feel as "special" everyone has got your role covered, we are all equal in this game and no individuality. all tanks are equal, the rogue tanks as good as the cleric, the cleric tanks as good as the warrior etc perhaps a bit more diversity is needed or thats what I think. At the lower levels this isn't obvious but at te higher levels expect most people to have this all covered.
The crafting is boring too no surpises there, a good mmo all around is EQ2, in all instances i did with EQ2 there was a lot of banter ex people would joke at you for being a ratonga/ froglok/ troll/ ogre/ halfling, perhaps it's just my unlucky self but in Rift it feels as the party is AI they never talk just when they leave, It's a lifeless feel even in rifts there is no talking only on chat channels and warfronts is there any life.
Rift lacks any feel to it, it just shows you that we're going to be grinding for gear at the end and the journey isn't even close to fun. the only "fun" diversions they have at the moment is warfronts (PVP) "sigh" & crafting.......
"This has done nothing new at all, Rifts will get used to fast, theyre allready familar by me, the soul system can be a good thing but it's also a bad thing, for me its better off without, as theres no need to make alts because of it as it stands, aswell you don't feel as "special" everyone has got your role covered, we are all equal in this game and no individuality. all tanks are equal, the rogue tanks as good as the cleric, the cleric tanks as good as the warrior etc perhaps a bit more diversity is needed or thats what I think. At the lower levels this isn't obvious but at te higher levels expect most people to have this all covered."
That shows to me you have not played this game or the classes you spek for that matter Justicar plays a lot different than paragon speced Warrior, its like saying druid tank in WoW is same as a paladin. So you want only one class to be tank and you want to wait 3 hours looking for one everyday to fill your group .
"The crafting is boring too no surpises there, a good mmo all around is EQ2, in all instances i did with EQ2 there was a lot of banter ex people would joke at you for being a ratonga/ froglok/ troll/ ogre/ halfling, perhaps it's just my unlucky self but in Rift it feels as the party is AI they never talk just when they leave, It's a lifeless feel even in rifts there is no talking only on chat channels and warfronts is there any life. "
Crafting is on par or better than EQ2 it is easier to level and make armor for yourself. It is no grind or a chore.
It seems to me you made up your mind that EQ is better than Rift and you are trying to justify that argument by playing MMOs. There is reason EQ2 was crushed by WoW it was more open and accessible to all players, if you want EQ2 like MMO you should go play Aion.
That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Have you not heard of exploration before? Having big zones with spots not occupied by quest mobs/hubs is perfect for that. As soon as exploration is completely removed by "utilizing every spot in a zone" the game simply becomes a directed grind (moreso than it already would be).
Yes exploring empty zones is very fun.
That isn't what I'm talking about. I'd improve upon my reading comprehension if I were you. FYI the large zones arent completely empty and are meant to be explored (shh don't tell anyone)
Hmm not sure if i was clear but my point was WoW at release did not have any thing to explore in those zones (Azshara, sithilus etc), content was added in later patches including quest hub. No way can you compare WoW at its current state (6 years of content) with Rift.
Yes, that is very true. I know what you mean about Azshara... however I'd rather have a zone in there that I could check out if I wanted (even if its purpose wasn't apparent yet) than have a tiny, limited world. I hated walking anywhere in Rift because something would aggro you EVERYWHERE and it did its best to discourage exploration. The only place I really ever explored was deep under the ocean.
Yes the aggro is known issue devs have said they are looking into it, they are toning down exposure buff in the next patch hopefully the aggro is next. If an MMO currently releases with empty zones if it will bashed remember vanilla WoW had big lvling quest holes (IIRC it was high 40s i had to grind undeads in EPL and there was no Mara at that time). Also read the article by our beloved Brad Mcquaid on how making a world too big is not good idea.
There is no discussion. In another thread, it was shown that the complete world of Rift fits into 1/3 of Kalimdor (or Eastern Kingdoms for that matter).
Here is the "scale" to compare just one basic WOW continent with the complete world of Rift. This means the basic WOW alone was 6x the complete world of Rift. Add all the expansions and many more dungeons and BG's and you end up paying for 12 times less content.
For the rest you're nitpicking on words. Of course you can level 6 by leveling 6 different zones in WOW from 1 - 60. You not only have 2 continents for those 60 levels you also have around 2 to 3 choices in which to level per continent.
Everyone can see for themselves : By sheer volume and variety, there is hardly an argument.
As for the quality of the quests: story based, changing lore based and changing worlds through phasing don't show up at all.
Neither has the game underwater quests or flying quests, which all add up to ... variety.
That's the difference.
Again, taking things out of context. This map is a comparison of actually game size, it is a comparison of player base size. You will note the scale on the side comparing 11+ million players to 4+ million players. I am not saying Rift has that many players, I am pointing out that this map comparison was taken out of context and used improperly.
Lol, that is Mil (should be Mi) as in miles, not million players. Haha I'm sorry but I'm actually laughing out loud... "the world this this long so it has THIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIS many players!"
Are they laying down or standing up? LLLOOOOLLLL hahahahaha
There is no discussion. In another thread, it was shown that the complete world of Rift fits into 1/3 of Kalimdor (or Eastern Kingdoms for that matter).
Here is the "scale" to compare just one basic WOW continent with the complete world of Rift. This means the basic WOW alone was 6x the complete world of Rift. Add all the expansions and many more dungeons and BG's and you end up paying for 12 times less content.
For the rest you're nitpicking on words. Of course you can level 6 by leveling 6 different zones in WOW from 1 - 60. You not only have 2 continents for those 60 levels you also have around 2 to 3 choices in which to level per continent.
Everyone can see for themselves : By sheer volume and variety, there is hardly an argument.
Even in WoW there is still lot of empty zones (3/4ths of sithilus is a place holder) so your size comparison isn't valid unlike in Telera the whole map is used effectively. Heck by your logic WAR must be resounding sucess and has ton of content because it zones are about the size of vanilla WoW.
The point taken from WAR should be it is not how big the zone is how effectively you use it and having too many zones can dilute the player base especially when you have public quests/rifts etc (In cata they have redone the quests and grouped them so that players no longer even access half of Eastern kingdoms).
On the contrary: the complete maps are used in WOW since ... you can access any mountain by flying simply to it and so the space is even bigger. No longer bordered boundaries. You can access it all and don't need to follow a path in a straight jacket suffocated with mobs and fake borders.
Add the underwater places and you may say WOW has around 15 x more content and places to go to.
But this is all a blip on the radar. You pay more to have 15 times less content. That can only hold so long as everyone realises it.
The WoW map size compared to anything will seem big. Everything in WoW's world is big. The 'scale' they use compared to players is huge! Trees are insanely huge, most players are barely as tall as the fence posts. This allows them to fill all this space without having to actually put mobs there. In RIFT almos all of that space is filled with stuff to kill...and stuff that will kill you.
Fast clicking through text popups and following around an arrow on a map is boring regardless of how you slice it. WoW probably makes the model about as fun as you can make it with a variety of quest types and interactions... but its still damned boring.
SWTOR should be interesting. I'm looking forward to a leveling experience that actually tells a story worth listening to.
Comments
Hmm not sure if i was clear but my point was WoW at release did not have any thing to explore in those zones (Azshara, sithilus etc), content was added in later patches including quest hub. No way can you compare WoW at its current state (6 years of content) with Rift.
Yes, that is very true. I know what you mean about Azshara... however I'd rather have a zone in there that I could check out if I wanted (even if its purpose wasn't apparent yet) than have a tiny, limited world. I hated walking anywhere in Rift because something would aggro you EVERYWHERE and it did its best to discourage exploration. The only place I really ever explored was deep under the ocean.
-Computer specs no one cares about: check.
-MMOs played no one cares about: check.
-Xfire stats no one cares about: check.
-Signature no one cares about: check.
------------------------------------------------------------
-Narcissism: check.
Lots of silly in this thread.
WoW on release had tons of "blank space" which I guess was fun to explore just in case that blank space had something. Rift can easily add more land (I hope they do). Btw who made the maps for comparison?
However, as someone's who has played 1-max level many times in WoW... the quests are not more original than Rift.. the stories aren't better... you guys sound like the DAoC vets claiming daoc had perfect balance in pvp.
Rift has issues but lets not put on rose colored WoW fanboy glasses. What will hurt Rift in the end will probably be WAR style herpderp nerfs and the watering down of their more unique classes. Not the amount of land a player must traverse. My prediction anyway.
If I had my way I'd have a few mega servers with multiple starting points, few more races and better class balance.
Again, taking things out of context. This map is a comparison of actually game size, it is a comparison of player base size. You will note the scale on the side comparing 11+ million players to 4+ million players. I am not saying Rift has that many players, I am pointing out that this map comparison was taken out of context and used improperly.
If you compare the maps on the same play scale then my original comment about the playable map in Rift being 1.5x that of Eastern Kingdoms is still valid. Taking an arbitrary map and using completely out of context does not make your point.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/306052
Gaming since Avalon Hill was making board games.
Played SWG, EVE, Fallen Earth, LOTRO, Rift, Vanguard, WoW, SWTOR, TSW, Tera
Tried Aoc, Aion, EQII, RoM, Vindictus, Darkfail, DDO, GW, PotBS
Lol, that is Mil (should be Mi) as in miles, not million players. Haha I'm sorry but I'm actually laughing out loud... "the world this this long so it has THIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIS many players!"
-Computer specs no one cares about: check.
-MMOs played no one cares about: check.
-Xfire stats no one cares about: check.
-Signature no one cares about: check.
------------------------------------------------------------
-Narcissism: check.
Rift is boring to me because of one thing : quests, ok i lied its more then one. I'm tired of uninspired quests, I could complete 3000 quests in EQ2, here i can't complete 100, something is very wrong with the quest system to me. It doesn't encourage me to quest at all.
Also, i've played since headstart, I'm level 47 i haven't quested much at all and not played a lot at all. the levelling is extremely fast if I enjoyed questing I easily could be 50 in 3 weeks with normal play time of a mmo.
I think around 900 quests with killing mobs and doing the dungys atleast once will get you to 50 without any grinding at all. also what worries me is the future at 50, what happens theres no need to do quests at all, theres re- running expert modes, raiding and looking for rifts. That sounds terribly boring in my estimates.
This has done nothing new at all, Rifts will get used to fast, theyre allready familar by me, the soul system can be a good thing but it's also a bad thing, for me its better off without, as theres no need to make alts because of it as it stands, aswell you don't feel as "special" everyone has got your role covered, we are all equal in this game and no individuality. all tanks are equal, the rogue tanks as good as the cleric, the cleric tanks as good as the warrior etc perhaps a bit more diversity is needed or thats what I think. At the lower levels this isn't obvious but at te higher levels expect most people to have this all covered.
The crafting is boring too no surpises there, a good mmo all around is EQ2, in all instances i did with EQ2 there was a lot of banter ex people would joke at you for being a ratonga/ froglok/ troll/ ogre/ halfling, perhaps it's just my unlucky self but in Rift it feels as the party is AI they never talk just when they leave, It's a lifeless feel even in rifts there is no talking only on chat channels and warfronts is there any life.
Rift lacks any feel to it, it just shows you that we're going to be grinding for gear at the end and the journey isn't even close to fun. the only "fun" diversions they have at the moment is warfronts (PVP) "sigh" & crafting.......
"This has done nothing new at all, Rifts will get used to fast, theyre allready familar by me, the soul system can be a good thing but it's also a bad thing, for me its better off without, as theres no need to make alts because of it as it stands, aswell you don't feel as "special" everyone has got your role covered, we are all equal in this game and no individuality. all tanks are equal, the rogue tanks as good as the cleric, the cleric tanks as good as the warrior etc perhaps a bit more diversity is needed or thats what I think. At the lower levels this isn't obvious but at te higher levels expect most people to have this all covered."
That shows to me you have not played this game or the classes you spek for that matter Justicar plays a lot different than paragon speced Warrior, its like saying druid tank in WoW is same as a paladin. So you want only one class to be tank and you want to wait 3 hours looking for one everyday to fill your group
.
"The crafting is boring too no surpises there, a good mmo all around is EQ2, in all instances i did with EQ2 there was a lot of banter ex people would joke at you for being a ratonga/ froglok/ troll/ ogre/ halfling, perhaps it's just my unlucky self but in Rift it feels as the party is AI they never talk just when they leave, It's a lifeless feel even in rifts there is no talking only on chat channels and warfronts is there any life. "
Crafting is on par or better than EQ2 it is easier to level and make armor for yourself. It is no grind or a chore.
It seems to me you made up your mind that EQ is better than Rift and you are trying to justify that argument by playing MMOs. There is reason EQ2 was crushed by WoW it was more open and accessible to all players, if you want EQ2 like MMO you should go play Aion.
Yes the aggro is known issue devs have said they are looking into it, they are toning down exposure buff in the next patch hopefully the aggro is next. If an MMO currently releases with empty zones if it will bashed remember vanilla WoW had big lvling quest holes (IIRC it was high 40s i had to grind undeads in EPL and there was no Mara at that time). Also read the article by our beloved Brad Mcquaid on how making a world too big is not good idea.
http://www.bradmcquaid.com/Brad_McQuaid/Blog/Entries/2009/9/22_Vanguard__Post-mortem_Part_4.html
Are they laying down or standing up? LLLOOOOLLLL hahahahaha
Remember Old School Ultima Online
The WoW map size compared to anything will seem big. Everything in WoW's world is big. The 'scale' they use compared to players is huge! Trees are insanely huge, most players are barely as tall as the fence posts. This allows them to fill all this space without having to actually put mobs there. In RIFT almos all of that space is filled with stuff to kill...and stuff that will kill you.
Fast clicking through text popups and following around an arrow on a map is boring regardless of how you slice it. WoW probably makes the model about as fun as you can make it with a variety of quest types and interactions... but its still damned boring.
SWTOR should be interesting. I'm looking forward to a leveling experience that actually tells a story worth listening to.