You can find somewhat similar data vis-a-vis Rift from Steam as well as from Xfire. Not that it would actually mean anything, but the data is consistent. The number of people playing Rift through Steam has gone from roughly 16,000 concurrent users at peak to around 9,000 users it has at the moment. With Steam this quite likely tells from the reduced hours played by an individual player.
You also have to take into consideration what day is compared with what day. Weekend evenings tradtionally have higher peaks than weekdays. Is the number of Steam users per game something that you can see via a weblink, or how can you determine these concurrent Steam users?
You can find out these statistics from here. The stats are counted based on the last 48 hours from which it counts the peak concurrent users at a given moment. The number is fairly steady for most of the other games (e.g. Civilization V) which would suggest that atleast some kind of a decline in interest can be seen amidst Steam users but as I said this hardly is any evidence from plummeting numbers.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Firstly not everyone uses Xfire and secondly its notorius for grossly missleading numbers.
Does everyone who vote also answer voting polls? No, they do not.
You dont need everyone to use XFire to validate its data. What is important is how well the XFire users represent the general population that play MMORPGs.
I have not seen any data showing they represent or does not represent well the general population so I would very much know where you get the data that it is "notorius for grossly missleading numbers".
I would imagine Xfire would be used a lot more by the younger audience that is attracted to games like AoC and Aion. Rift with its traditional EQ1/EQ2/VG background would appeal to a more traditional and older audience and likel;y would not represent itself well in comparison on Xfire to games that are more aimed at the kiddie audience like AoC. But it can be very useful in showing treands while not a good estimator of overall subs. But agian it can be a good barometer of the overall health of a game.
EQ1/EQ2/VG background? LOL
Rift is much more similar to WoW than any of those games.
More over, what is in Rift that makes it not a kiddie game? There is nothing remotely complex or hard in this game so I dont see how a 10 year old cant excel in it.
Originally posted by MMO.Maverick Is the number of Steam users per game something that you can see via a weblink, or how can you determine these concurrent Steam users?
Steam dusnt give an accurate number either, as most games require steam to be running whilst for Rift for instance it dusnt.
Because the game takes itself a bit more serious than does some other games. Making a game 'hard' or 'complex' does not make it better than another. EQ EQ2 and VG were not any more difficult than Rift or WOW. Like Rift, they just took themsleves more serious.
Can I have an example of how you think that Rift takes itself more seriously than WoW and how do you think that it is in the same catagory as VG? Rift is far more similar to WoW in just about every way.
I would imagine Xfire would be used a lot more by the younger audience that is attracted to games like AoC and Aion. Rift with its traditional EQ1/EQ2/VG background would appeal to a more traditional and older audience and likel;y would not represent itself well in comparison on Xfire to games that are more aimed at the kiddie audience like AoC. But it can be very useful in showing treands while not a good estimator of overall subs. But agian it can be a good barometer of the overall health of a game.
EQ1/EQ2/VG background? LOL
Rift is much more similar to WoW than any of those games.
More over, what is in Rift that makes it not a kiddie game? There is nothing remotely complex or hard in this game so I dont see how a 10 year old cant excel in it.
With Hartsman being the lead dev coming from EQ2 and many devs from Vanguard and EQ1 the game has a traditional eq1/eq2/Vanguard model set around around raiding endgame. There are Warhammer elements and much from WoW. But there is a large base of devs and players from EQ and VG because of Hartsman.
Much of the early development and the Alpha shard was domintaed by Vanguard players. Almost all of the first Alpha guild invites went to Vanguard guilds. Fallout, Trinity, BoTs, HA, Xanadu, Silky Venom, etc. Alpha which was limited to about a 1000 total invites up until around January was predominatly Vanguard players. Post release the game is dominated by WoW players but its roots from devlopers and testers are EQ1/EQ2/Vanguard.
In regards to AoC it was designed and marketed for the kiddies. With shallow simple combat, gore, profanity, nudity and blood it was a child's dream game. I agree with you that Rift lacks complexlity amd difficulty But it still has a background and connection to more traditional MMOs and an older playerbase.
Firstly not everyone uses Xfire and secondly its notorius for grossly missleading numbers.
Does everyone who vote also answer voting polls? No, they do not.
You dont need everyone to use XFire to validate its data. What is important is how well the XFire users represent the general population that play MMORPGs.
I have not seen any data showing they represent or does not represent well the general population so I would very much know where you get the data that it is "notorius for grossly missleading numbers".
According to xfire Aion (multiple months since the last contentupdate) is currently more actively played in the West than EvE Online and has half the population of the just recently released Rift.
If anyones think these numbers add up to represent reality of the whole western MMORPG genre, then he'd aswell should not bother about player statistics at all .... or should stop trolling.
Actually there is large user base who in Europe/NA which play in Korean Aion servers.
Firstly not everyone uses Xfire and secondly its notorius for grossly missleading numbers.
Does everyone who vote also answer voting polls? No, they do not.
You dont need everyone to use XFire to validate its data. What is important is how well the XFire users represent the general population that play MMORPGs.
I have not seen any data showing they represent or does not represent well the general population so I would very much know where you get the data that it is "notorius for grossly missleading numbers".
According to xfire Aion (multiple months since the last contentupdate) is currently more actively played in the West than EvE Online and has half the population of the just recently released Rift.
If anyones think these numbers add up to represent reality of the whole western MMORPG genre, then he'd aswell should not bother about player statistics at all .... or should stop trolling.
Actually there is large user base who in Europe/NA which play in Korean Aion servers.
Neither is it "large", nor is it even affecting xfire because the Korean Aion client isnt supported by xfire.
Well Zorndorf deleted all posts of his sockpuppet account Kre01 anyway. So this thread will die soon and the topic only touched in a new thread to get rid of all arguments contradicting his point.
Hmm i thought it was or could be added manually since i knew a few people playing it and they have Xfire listing them as recently playing AIon.
Anyway Xfire seems to be holding steady for Rift with no gain or losses, where as both WAR/AoC showed drop in hour 1 month after release.
I would imagine Xfire would be used a lot more by the younger audience that is attracted to games like AoC and Aion. Rift with its traditional EQ1/EQ2/VG background would appeal to a more traditional and older audience and likel;y would not represent itself well in comparison on Xfire to games that are more aimed at the kiddie audience like AoC. But it can be very useful in showing treands while not a good estimator of overall subs. But agian it can be a good barometer of the overall health of a game.
EQ1/EQ2/VG background? LOL
Rift is much more similar to WoW than any of those games.
More over, what is in Rift that makes it not a kiddie game? There is nothing remotely complex or hard in this game so I dont see how a 10 year old cant excel in it.
With Hartsman being the lead dev coming from EQ2 and many devs from Vanguard and EQ1 the game has a traditional eq1/eq2/Vanguard model set around around raiding endgame. There are Warhammer elements and much from WoW. But there is a large base of devs and players from EQ and VG because of Hartsman.
Much of the early development and the Alpha shard was domintaed by Vanguard players. Almost all of the first Alpha guild invites went to Vanguard guilds. Fallout, Trinity, BoTs, HA, Xanadu, Silky Venom, etc. Alpha which was limited to about a 1000 total invites up until around January was predominatly Vanguard players. Post release the game is dominated by WoW players but its roots from devlopers and testers are EQ1/EQ2/Vanguard.
In regards to AoC it was designed and marketed for the kiddies. With shallow simple combat, gore, profanity, nudity and blood it was a child's dream game. I agree with you that Rift lacks complexlity amd difficulty But it still has a background and connection to more traditional MMOs and an older playerbase.
One of the funny things about these forums is that no matter which game´s forums you visit, they will have some opinion that óverall´their game caters to a more ´mature´audience.
Rift is basically an identical clone of WOW. They marketed towards wow players, they include everything exactly like WOW has,.... And FYI.. the guys who made WOW were heavy raiders in EQ1.. which means they are very very old .... ha. Therefore, based on your arguments, they made the game for older players, right?
In any event. Xfire shows trends overall for a game. The amount of hours played at launch are much more than normal, so even if the chart appears to gradually go down, it probably has as much to do with people just not putting in as many hours as it does to subscription losses. The one really intersesting thing will be to look at next week, when people have to resubscribe. If there is a huge drop on that particular day (compared to the same day of the week, one week earlier) then that is a sign that people didn´t resubscribe. But again, you have to take xfire for what it is... it is a gaming communication device.. mainly used by people who play a lot of different games. The ´locust´effect is much higher amoung xfire users than it is everyone else (playing a game for a month).
The bad thing about Rift.. all I keep hearing is the word ´boring´... It is polished.. but it is boring and has no replay value for alts.
Rift is basically an identical clone of WOW. They marketed towards wow players, they include everything exactly like WOW has,.... And FYI.. the guys who made WOW were heavy raiders in EQ1.. which means they are very very old .... ha. Therefore, based on your arguments, they made the game for older players, right?
Just because they were heavy raiders in EQ1 and made WoW don't meen they made it for the older players. EQ1 and WoW were totally different.
I played EQ1, UO, SWG and DAoC all b4 WoW and instead of playing WoW I opted to play Lineage 2 which many of the hard cores went to. WoW just went the way of big gain with out little loss, the insta gratification started and now has ran out of control. Hell if you want to go a step farther monoply has more play time and excitement than any game being produced lately.
Because the game takes itself a bit more serious than does some other games. Making a game 'hard' or 'complex' does not make it better than another. EQ EQ2 and VG were not any more difficult than Rift or WOW. Like Rift, they just took themsleves more serious.
Can I have an example of how you think that Rift takes itself more seriously than WoW and how do you think that it is in the same catagory as VG? Rift is far more similar to WoW in just about every way.
Here is a hint. Every player who plays a game thinks ´that game´ is more mature than other games out there. I say the same thing about WOW.. I think it is for mature adults because it allows us to jump in, play for 30 minutes and accomplish something significant ( insta-porting to dungeons, relatively fast dungeons etc were all designed to allow older players to play in short amounts of time). In other games, I have to log in, spam to find a group, wait for the group to get to the dungeon.. and maybe 20-30 minute later actually start the dungeon, which requires an hour to complete... so if I want to make any progress with my character, I have to have 90 minutes at least to play other games. In WOW, most dungeons I can be done with in less than 30 minutes from the time I first log in.
If you go on the AOC forums, they will say their game is geared towards ´mature adults´because it uses lots of blood effects and has nudity....
But no matter how you slice it, almost every person will say their game is ´more mature´ than other games...
Because the game takes itself a bit more serious than does some other games. Making a game 'hard' or 'complex' does not make it better than another. EQ EQ2 and VG were not any more difficult than Rift or WOW. Like Rift, they just took themsleves more serious.
Can I have an example of how you think that Rift takes itself more seriously than WoW and how do you think that it is in the same catagory as VG? Rift is far more similar to WoW in just about every way.
Here is a hint. Every player who plays a game thinks ´that game´ is more mature than other games out there. I say the same thing about WOW.. I think it is for mature adults because it allows us to jump in, play for 30 minutes and accomplish something significant ( insta-porting to dungeons, relatively fast dungeons etc were all designed to allow older players to play in short amounts of time). In other games, I have to log in, spam to find a group, wait for the group to get to the dungeon.. and maybe 20-30 minute later actually start the dungeon, which requires an hour to complete... so if I want to make any progress with my character, I have to have 90 minutes at least to play other games. In WOW, most dungeons I can be done with in less than 30 minutes from the time I first log in.
If you go on the AOC forums, they will say their game is geared towards ´mature adults´because it uses lots of blood effects and has nudity....
But no matter how you slice it, almost every person will say their game is ´more mature´ than other games...
There is a big misconception shining through your argumentation. MMORPGs have never been about running a dungeon, they have been about social interaction. That is what made the older games great, and even the classic WoW could be called a MMORPG - at least for a while, a litttle bit, you know...
Imho the games you want to play are singleplayer games with an online lobby modus. There is nothing mature about that. I never before read WoW and mature in one sentence, really ;-)
On the other hand, there are these guys who log in for social interaction - they hate these instant ports to dungeons, and groups assembled by an algorithm - because that takes away everything they want from their online time. They don't care about that shiny new robe, it's only bits and bytes, but getting all the way there with your friends, joking around in teamspeak and chatting with known guys from other guilds, that was the stuff that made mmorpgs enjoyable for them.
Two different points of view, and imho the latter one sounds more mature than the carrot game that wow is.
Comments
You can find out these statistics from here. The stats are counted based on the last 48 hours from which it counts the peak concurrent users at a given moment. The number is fairly steady for most of the other games (e.g. Civilization V) which would suggest that atleast some kind of a decline in interest can be seen amidst Steam users but as I said this hardly is any evidence from plummeting numbers.
I don't know anyone who uses xfire either, it is still a poll though, anywhere between 4 and 6 would seem reasonable.
@Harkkum: Ah, I see it tracks very few MMORPG's, a shame. Still, thanks for the link, very handy
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Does everyone who vote also answer voting polls? No, they do not.
You dont need everyone to use XFire to validate its data. What is important is how well the XFire users represent the general population that play MMORPGs.
I have not seen any data showing they represent or does not represent well the general population so I would very much know where you get the data that it is "notorius for grossly missleading numbers".
My gaming blog
EQ1/EQ2/VG background? LOL
Rift is much more similar to WoW than any of those games.
More over, what is in Rift that makes it not a kiddie game? There is nothing remotely complex or hard in this game so I dont see how a 10 year old cant excel in it.
My gaming blog
i don't use Xfire, I play mmo's.
currently I'm playing RIFT, for six month at least. enjoying it VERY much and i HATE wow.
i keep my Eve sub alive as well for when i'm bored of fantasy.
I have never understood why people use xfire, how many more im services to we need.
That being said, I could easily see them loose half there poplulation, after the initial surge. its the nature of the beast.
I know I have dropped off recentlyt thats mainly becuase of SHogun 2 though. Strategy war games are my first love.
Steam dusnt give an accurate number either, as most games require steam to be running whilst for Rift for instance it dusnt.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
Can I have an example of how you think that Rift takes itself more seriously than WoW and how do you think that it is in the same catagory as VG? Rift is far more similar to WoW in just about every way.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
september and october?
With Hartsman being the lead dev coming from EQ2 and many devs from Vanguard and EQ1 the game has a traditional eq1/eq2/Vanguard model set around around raiding endgame. There are Warhammer elements and much from WoW. But there is a large base of devs and players from EQ and VG because of Hartsman.
Much of the early development and the Alpha shard was domintaed by Vanguard players. Almost all of the first Alpha guild invites went to Vanguard guilds. Fallout, Trinity, BoTs, HA, Xanadu, Silky Venom, etc. Alpha which was limited to about a 1000 total invites up until around January was predominatly Vanguard players. Post release the game is dominated by WoW players but its roots from devlopers and testers are EQ1/EQ2/Vanguard.
In regards to AoC it was designed and marketed for the kiddies. With shallow simple combat, gore, profanity, nudity and blood it was a child's dream game. I agree with you that Rift lacks complexlity amd difficulty But it still has a background and connection to more traditional MMOs and an older playerbase.
Actually there is large user base who in Europe/NA which play in Korean Aion servers.
Hmm i thought it was or could be added manually since i knew a few people playing it and they have Xfire listing them as recently playing AIon.
Anyway Xfire seems to be holding steady for Rift with no gain or losses, where as both WAR/AoC showed drop in hour 1 month after release.
One of the funny things about these forums is that no matter which game´s forums you visit, they will have some opinion that óverall´their game caters to a more ´mature´audience.
Rift is basically an identical clone of WOW. They marketed towards wow players, they include everything exactly like WOW has,.... And FYI.. the guys who made WOW were heavy raiders in EQ1.. which means they are very very old .... ha. Therefore, based on your arguments, they made the game for older players, right?
In any event. Xfire shows trends overall for a game. The amount of hours played at launch are much more than normal, so even if the chart appears to gradually go down, it probably has as much to do with people just not putting in as many hours as it does to subscription losses. The one really intersesting thing will be to look at next week, when people have to resubscribe. If there is a huge drop on that particular day (compared to the same day of the week, one week earlier) then that is a sign that people didn´t resubscribe. But again, you have to take xfire for what it is... it is a gaming communication device.. mainly used by people who play a lot of different games. The ´locust´effect is much higher amoung xfire users than it is everyone else (playing a game for a month).
The bad thing about Rift.. all I keep hearing is the word ´boring´... It is polished.. but it is boring and has no replay value for alts.
Rift is basically an identical clone of WOW. They marketed towards wow players, they include everything exactly like WOW has,.... And FYI.. the guys who made WOW were heavy raiders in EQ1.. which means they are very very old .... ha. Therefore, based on your arguments, they made the game for older players, right?
Just because they were heavy raiders in EQ1 and made WoW don't meen they made it for the older players. EQ1 and WoW were totally different.
I played EQ1, UO, SWG and DAoC all b4 WoW and instead of playing WoW I opted to play Lineage 2 which many of the hard cores went to. WoW just went the way of big gain with out little loss, the insta gratification started and now has ran out of control. Hell if you want to go a step farther monoply has more play time and excitement than any game being produced lately.
Years ago i used Xfire, but then i found other things that was much better then Xfire and quit using it.
Here is a hint. Every player who plays a game thinks ´that game´ is more mature than other games out there. I say the same thing about WOW.. I think it is for mature adults because it allows us to jump in, play for 30 minutes and accomplish something significant ( insta-porting to dungeons, relatively fast dungeons etc were all designed to allow older players to play in short amounts of time). In other games, I have to log in, spam to find a group, wait for the group to get to the dungeon.. and maybe 20-30 minute later actually start the dungeon, which requires an hour to complete... so if I want to make any progress with my character, I have to have 90 minutes at least to play other games. In WOW, most dungeons I can be done with in less than 30 minutes from the time I first log in.
If you go on the AOC forums, they will say their game is geared towards ´mature adults´because it uses lots of blood effects and has nudity....
But no matter how you slice it, almost every person will say their game is ´more mature´ than other games...
Lol Xfire!
I also have never used xfire, but play Rift. I am not really sure why people use xfire.
I can't see how the game isn't in decline...When you can reach level 50 after just 2 weeks. Like playing strawberry shortcake.
Played Wow, D and L, AOC, GW, Eve, Rift and many more insignificant games.
There is a big misconception shining through your argumentation. MMORPGs have never been about running a dungeon, they have been about social interaction. That is what made the older games great, and even the classic WoW could be called a MMORPG - at least for a while, a litttle bit, you know...
Imho the games you want to play are singleplayer games with an online lobby modus. There is nothing mature about that. I never before read WoW and mature in one sentence, really ;-)
On the other hand, there are these guys who log in for social interaction - they hate these instant ports to dungeons, and groups assembled by an algorithm - because that takes away everything they want from their online time. They don't care about that shiny new robe, it's only bits and bytes, but getting all the way there with your friends, joking around in teamspeak and chatting with known guys from other guilds, that was the stuff that made mmorpgs enjoyable for them.
Two different points of view, and imho the latter one sounds more mature than the carrot game that wow is.
Currently playing: EverQuest
Waiting for Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen
You rarely meet a "man" on here anymore...much less a "woman"... I would team up with the best of you... but that is hard to find...
Played Wow, D and L, AOC, GW, Eve, Rift and many more insignificant games.