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It is time to embrace the new
ThomasN7
87.18.7.148Member CommonPosts: 6,690
Thats right, no more fedex quests, no more riding on a mount that takes 20 min to get from one place to the next and definitely no more Everquest clones. Since Cataclysm I put some faith back in the devs and tried to give some new content such as Cataclysm, Rift, DC Universe and I find the mmo genre still to be a disappointment.
Lets start with WoW. First of all the way Blizzard has changed their game with the way quests are done is disturbing not to mention they still have a ton of fedex quests it is also way too easy to level in WoW now. Within less than a week I was able to achieve level 31 with very little effort. I only spend may 2-3 hours a day if that but the only real time I can put more hours if I wanted to is the weekends. WoW is just boring, too repetitve and way to simple.
Next we have Rift. Ok i was excited about the rift events but here is the problem, they are boring as hell. All they are is just waves of mobs you have to kill and that is it. it is dull, boring and enough with the crap ton of fedex quests please. The game is way too easy to level and don't tell us that you want us to level quickly because all the content is at end game. That statement is a bunch of nonsense and anyone with half of a brains knows it is as well.
DC Universe can be fun at times and it is more fun than Rift and Cataclysm but the game seriously lacks content. How anyone can charge a monthly fee for this game is mind-boggling at best. You can finish the game within less than a month with little to no issues. Yeah they added some content since release but is is still not enough to justify a monthly fee for this game.
So pretty much I am done playing mmos that are too simple, lack content and want to clone another game. It is time to embrace new mmos like The Old Republic and Guild Wars 2 because they bring new and fun features like story driven quests instead of the same old fedex quests. The Old Repulic will be a mission based story mmo which i find much better than the old way of doing things. Guild Wars 2 brings story and dynamic events which will be so much better than what Blizzard, Trion and SOE is serving us. Just tired of the same old same old, it really is time for a change for the better.
Comments
What you say is just how I feel.
In with the new.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?
I can't help but think GW2 could be the future of MMOs, but I'm still a little dubious it will provide a challenge any more so than the likes of Rift or WoW. I'm jut so looking forward to the removal of the quest grind and the return to exploration that maybe I just won't mind anyway.
Rift was awful and it left me fearing for the future of MMOs that I might want to play. I followed that game for months, from the opening of the forums to beta, and I never got the impression that Trion were going for such a shallow and linear game as they did. They had such an amazingly talented team that to shrink MMO content to it's most basic form was a discredit to the experience of that team.
It's all the good reviews that Rift is getting that continues to worry me, to be honest. Everywhere you look Rift is getting 8/10, 9/10 and even 10/10 (although that is mostly overly biased player reviews). People like Rift for some god awful reason. They like to be held by the hand and told where to go. They like content to be simple and rewarding. This is why dull, linear and boring MMOs are thriving. I do think that because they have been fed this rubbish for so long that they are used to it though. They expect it, and can they change if MMOs start to move away from questing and simple content?
I'm going to cross my fingers and hope that GW2 takes the genre firmly by the throat and gives it a good squeeze, that it alters peoples perspectives to look to explore rather than be led and that it goes someway to erasing the quest from this genre. I don't care about it beating other MMOs, because there's room for many, but I want this new formula to be successful so that other devs think to do away with questing.
This doesn't mean that I think quests can be done away with totally. There's still room for some, but not as many as has been the current trend. I've had a firm eye on Archeage for sometime now, and I wouldn't want to see it take a beating because questing, which it will invariably have some of, has been given a negative sheen. There is reported to be much more in AA and there are some quests that can be fun, like I said.
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Wow. A thread where I agree with and relate to EVERY SINGLE POST so far that is in it.
Bring on the new.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Only 2-3 hours a day spent in a video game? You poor thing!
I'm inclined to agree with you but the amount of times you said it was too easy to level kind of put me off. Longer leveling time doesn't mean a game has more content. Its more about enjoying the time you put into the game rather than getting more time out of the game.
I heartily agree MMOs need something new. Howevever, not everyone agrees what that new thing or things should be. I for one would like to see non static worlds. The lack of any type of simulation of plausible world challenges makes these games boring in the long run. The other thing that makes these games boring is the complete focus on combat. Every character becomes a one dimensonal persona in the end- you are either a fighter of some sort (either weapons or magic hardly matters) or you support the fighters (healers). That is it as there really is no room to be anything else. Crafting in most games is a complete afterthought and there are no other meaningful ways to play or affect the world. Any changes that are made are only made by the developers. What the players do or fail to do does not matter at all. Failure and success are meaningless except for some experience and gear and at the end of the day everyone can max out on both if they grind (and pay) long enough.
The 'quest' thing that the OP mentioned is right on. The original meaning of a quest was something epic, something a few people might do once in a lifetime and they certainly did not all center around killing things. If you had a rat problem on your property, would you ever think about it as a quest? Would it be your life's goal to exterminate said rats? in RL, this would be a task not a quest and most of us would find no fun doing it. For me, the same applies when some random NPC in a game asks me to take care of his rat problem.
Until there are games with some basis in a believeable reality, there will be nothing new in MMOs. These games don' t need to be totally realistic but it would be nice to enter a game world that isn't frozen in time with NPCs asking me to help with their chores.
I look at threads like this and reflect. I wonder why I spent so much time in the past playing MMO's. I understand they can be an escape from reality for a time and gives one something to do in their free time. Still what should a person expect?
It's not as if the genre is brand new. It's not easy to come up with new ideas either. If you are looking for many new ideas after the market has matured you are going to be very disappointed. I've got some news for you, all the new MMO's released in the future will be basically the same way and have quests you are familliar with. Oh, some will be more polished, but the idea will be be same.
IMO, MMO's have run their course and peaked. There are going to be many more that fail than in the past. Fewer and fewer will survive. Unless there is a reputation or a niche following, most MMO's will disappear and go the way of the dodo bird.
I'm looking foward to GW2 like many others but I dont expect it to be all that new -- beyond no monthly fees
another game I want to try is Jeff Strains zombie mmo
old interview
http://www.destructoid.com/jeff-strain-talks-undead-labs-and-its-console-zombie-mmo-155866.phtml
"When I say MMO or RPG to you right now, you probably think fantasy.
You probably have certain expectations for how the mechanics work... there's this overwhelming template for how you play these games," he says.
"I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing, but by changing platforms and changing genre and having a fresh perspective you can go shake up some of the fundamentals of how the game is played.
"One of the things that is key in [the zombie] genre is really giving players a sense of purpose that is not just kill monsters and level up," he tells us.
Strain says that you will have to be defending your town, especially at night when the hordes come, but that as you build your town you should also build a sense of safety. However, you will also be able to run out into the land of the dead in order to get special items, supplies, or other things that are needed for survival.
"The game is going to really encourage you to go out for all kinds of different reasons," adds Strain, "and when you are out in the world and walking through the streets, or small towns or shopping malls it will be very easy for the game to give you that sense of you versus the masses or the hordes.
It is important to state that this is not a horror game. You have to have a purpose and you have to believe you're trying to survive for a reason and that is why you have a safe base."
EQ2 fan sites
So you think upcoming MMORPGs are going to be golden and magical, while you feel existing MMORPGs (in all their varied gameplay types) all suck.
That's sort of an odd viewpoint isn't it?
By the sound of it, it's extremely likely that you'll be disappointed in ToR and GW2.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
That's a pretty bold/false statement. The gaming industry is all about new innovations that improve on the old, yet still great games including the MMORPG area. GW2 is what my hype is centered around right now and I've even dedicated a site to it. In the previous installment it took a lot away from the traditional playstyle of the MMO genre. In GW2 there are a LOT of new dynamics that will probably pull a LOT of people in, whether they're an MMO fan or not, and it's also sticking to/improving upon many traditional aspects.
I don't think that they will be some "golden" or "magical" experience, but they will definitely be a new and welcomed one.
Note that I'm assuming the person who started this thread is okay with the games, but wants a change. If they are in fact 100% let down with what's on the market, I'll certainly agree with your statement.
<GamerTen.com> <A GW2 Fansite>
I believe they already tried the real world in Vanguard, and look how that turned out. I'm not saying it wouldn't work because Vanguard would have worked if the dev team had been on the ball, and listened to their own wants instead of those of the community insiting things needed changing. Vanguard has probably left a mark on many though, as has the oher great open world game that was SWG. The big changes to SWG, in the form of the NGE, left its mark on MMOs, and has probably left developers wondering if that sort of game is really worth the monetary effort.
It's not all doom and gloom for the real world feel though. Have a look at Archeage.
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Well this is the same as people saying we're bored of MMOs because we might not like the current. It's never as simple as that.
I complain about Rift solidly. I know I do, but I feel I need to. The game was awful and has really hurt the genre in my mind. I couldn't play it for any amount of money.
I'm not bored of MMOs though. I love MMOs and nothing else really comes close in gaming. I just want to see something new and invigorating.
I noticed you changed your post, and removed the final comment. You realise how bold and untrue a comment it was, then?
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Sorry for showing fanboyism here, but I think the GW2 approach to dynamic events is one of the greatest thoughts ever. A real world. . . I dunno about that. A fantasy world that is ever changing however will probably do the trick. I think a long awaited change is finally making its appearance in games like Rift and the upcoming titles. That change is the one of breaking away from click npc, kill five rabbits, turn in quest via click npc. Click npc, collect 6 herbs, turn in quest via click npc. That creates a very static playstyle that the majority of people will tire of and not even read the lore anymore, unless you're a diehard who is in love with everything about a game.
<GamerTen.com> <A GW2 Fansite>
Two-three hours is nothing compared to the majority.
If it weren't for the races, I would've burnt on WoW the first day. I have a love for the old-school fantasy setup and that caused me to play for the little time I did.
I wholeheartedly agree that WoW is far too boring now. When I hop inside a dungeon, I find myself just following a crowd (or leading), seeing something and going through the static things in my brain to kill that something. There's no "whoa! that just happened!" for me in WoW whatsoever. I have more of a "why can't I fight awesome/brutal mobs the entire time?" thought going on.
<GamerTen.com> <A GW2 Fansite>
I never did like the word fanboyism, but I probably could have been grouped in that category in the past over titles such as Vanguard and EQ. That dosn't matter terrifically though, because I think you're right about GW2's dynamic events. They do seem very promising and have the scope to really open out the world to an explorers paradise.
ANet are yet to really delve in to the crafting side of things, but I don't get the impression that the game will allow you to be anything in a way that SWG or Vanguard did, or Archeage promises. The mini games in cities will add a new side to the game other than combat but I have a feeling that might be it. It's not all bad though if the combat is great and compelling, which I think it could be.
SWToR, I am starting to realise, is adding the other thing that MMOs need, and that is story. There is another thread on the front page of this forum where someone suggests an MMO based on the film Labyrinth. It really got me thinking that the story is very often overshadowed by the combat and prgression side of things in MMOs. Just look at the current questing model and the comments coming out of games like Rift and you will see that people barely even bother reading quests anymore. Consider that Rift actually had some great lore prior to release, that is being passed over due to ingame linearity, and you can see the story needs to fight back.
Change is needed and GW2 is a making a very good start by changing the quest mechanic that has gone as far down its path as it can.
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As with RIFT and DCUO, ToR and GW will each take some new steps. They will not be gargantuan, giant leaps away from genres norms.
If the OP is dissatisfied with the new steps of previous games then it's extremely likely he will also discover that exact same dissatisfaction with the new releases.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
You really can not compare the steps ToR and GW2 are taking with what Rift has done. Rift really hasn't changed all that much. Their dynamic events are PQs and their quest content is more linear than much that has come before. The only thing that is slightly new is the class system, but that is lost to the fact the game is so linear and shallow and doesn't really require such an evolved system.
ToR is putting the story back in MMOs and GW2 is removing an over used aspect of MMOs. They're both changing things radically.
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(Underlined italicized emphasis is mine.)
The only part I disagree with is that somehow only brainless (or brain-deficient) people want to reach endgame faster.
There are two types of players, to sound all noble and crap (to sound less nobile), those that enjoy the journey, and those that enjoy the destination.
I enjoy the destination. There's nothing that makes me or you better than the other. It doesn't matter how fast you CAN level as long as they provide enough content on the way, perhaps with a menu based exp-lock. No special "Visit this npc" crap but a simple on/off switch in the menu that lets you decide how fast you can level, with content along the way solves both our problems.
Otherwise, well said.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
He as so many live for this whine they make the classic mistake thinking next themepark will be different, but time after time find out its same old boring gameplay come to forums and keep whine and whine saying they never will play such games again or quit but after a week they are back and repeat same thing over and over again lol. They keep playing keep whining they love it and hope others agree with them so they feel good.
They spending more on forums then ingame just to troll, dont feed the whiny trolls:P
SWtor GW2 you will have same problems and i think SWtor is even worse then Rift and WoW mark my words.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
I would just like to comment to those who replied to my original post. I am not looking for a real world per se in a game. I think MMOs need some realistic elements to get better- some other goals rather than leveling, looting and unrealistic, boring tasks. I would liken it to reading a great piece of fiction whether that be a fantasy, horror or sci-fi. These books are great because the reader becomes invested in the characters. This happens because the characters themselves are interesting but also because the situations they find themselves in are believable. These worlds have their own set of rules of course but on the whole they are at least somewhat believable- or put another way, the reader is able to suspend disbelief. I mean what if after learning that he possessed the One RIng, Frodo teleported to Mordor with his allies who carried an army's supply of weapons, died several times due to enemies repspawning behind him, was continuously resurrected by Gandalf, dropped the RIng in the lava and then teleported back home with Sauron's armor as a trophy?
Of course, MMOs are a different medium than books and there will always be concessions for the sake of gameplay. The current crop of MMOs have done the exact opposite in that they have removed any aspects of realism. Characters don't need to eat, they are all immortal, travel is instantaneous or near so, killing something is everyone's main job and animals are carrying swords and gold. Without any danger of failure in any way and a ton of immersion breaking inconsistencies in both lore and gameplay, I find almost impossible to suspend disbelief yet that is what developers are asking us to do. Certainly some these games can be fun and there will always be a place for people who want these sorts of games but I think a next gen. MMO will have some aspects of a good book.
Dear OP,
The "new" is casual mmo gaming. Im not that old kinda, 33 but im old enough to remember that video gamers used to be considered a cult or whatever ya know.
I loved WoW because it offered casual playing with hardcore content. Of course over the years seeing how "easier" attracts more money it became that way. I personally believe and feel that the people making WoW what it is, those old and new have done an incredible job. We all have our preferences but overall WoW has been amazing. ~I quit a month after cata just need somethin different~
Anyways i myself love "hardcore" gaming but i dont think of grinding xp for months on end is "hardcore," well its not to me anyways. To me "hardcore" is the difficulty of the end game content really. I dont wanna get into all the meanings of "hardcore" tho, im just sayin.
Gaming has become an every day normal thing for damn near everybody on the planet and it just keeps growing all because of phone apps really, in my opinion.
WoW i think was the first major game to offer casual gaming with hardcore content.
Most of us dont want to spend 3 hours just running from one town to another, let alone 10 hours or more. I love the idea of those games but i think it needs to see some different implementation.
Also i notice you mention how fast leveling is, i think thats great as long as the content at level cap is plentiful and fun.
Anyways the major "new" games will definitely be faster paced. Embrace them.
Jeremiah 8:21 I weep for the hurt of my people; I stand amazed, silent, dumb with grief.
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Unless you get best-in-slot items in every slot and keep playing beyond that, you're actually a 'journey' player.
However I do agree with criticizing the bit of the OP's post you highlighted. It's pretty ridiculous to get hung up on whether or not progression occurs specifically in level form. Progression occurs in all these games at max level, or players would stop playing.
Because like I'm suggesting: all players are journey players. No player sticks around long after they've completed a game 100%, because when you're at the destination the game has nothing left to offer you.
Personally I feel it's pretty arbtirary and weird to define the journey as only the leveling part of the game. Especially with so many examples to the contrary.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
More power to you if you feel this isn't the exact same sort of step-evolution.
...don't be surprised when it isn't though. All games profess to be gargantuan leaps, but when they release we realize 99% of games aren't game-changers. Doesn't mean they can't be good solid fun, but the OP doesn't seem to be the sort to settle for step-evolution.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Good point.
The journey paraphrasing I used has been used in slightly different forms for a long time and can often be countered with an argument like yours. The completion of the leveling journey is the beginning of the endgame journey, unless you're an altoholic. The completion of the career journey is the beginning of the retirement journey. The completion of a crime spree is the beginning of an incarceration journey, or perhaps if you're a crime n00b, then it's the end of the journey period usually in 9mm, .45 or .223 calibers
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I'm glad, semantics aside, that we can agree. Games would also do better to read WoW's communities and pick up where WoW refuses.
WoW refuses to do level capped servers. Dig up the old talent trees etc etc. They all-but refuse player housing and guild housing, instanced or otherwise. They refuse to have a talent mean one thing in PVP and another in PVE, etc etc. I bring this up because tweaking/implementing these, with a friendly and worthwhile exp-lock system could be a profitable game for even some of the most ridiculed WoW clones.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.