Housing and indepth crafting.. if a mmo has both of these like SWG HAD... Im hooked for life.
Screw up the game and the economy.. HOUSE FOR SALE!
You need to play Vanguard. Or you would if the pr**ks at Sony hadn't deserted the game. My mind boggles and gets annoyed when I think of how good that game is, and how much better it could be if phony Sony could put even 10 devs on it.
BA****DS !! They screwed SWG and Vanguard !! I'm really not sure if I could play anything else of theirs now, I'm sure they bought Vanguard to let it die so it wouldnt be competition for EQ-Next or whatever it's called..
Housing and indepth crafting.. if a mmo has both of these like SWG HAD... Im hooked for life.
Screw up the game and the economy.. HOUSE FOR SALE!
Ryzom has it all.
Dude, I'm playing Ryzom too and I like it a lot, but don't post false advertisements, especially to SWG vets.
I won't argue on the crafting, but being able to purchase an instanced apartment is so far, far away from what you can do in SWG. Far.
As for the economy, it barely exists. In this game, it will take you one second to ask for low-mid level stuff, and people will trip over themselves to give you the best stuff for your level. It's harder for you to go to the player vendor (because people generally don't put stuff up for sale) than to ask for it, free. And this is with complete strangers.
The higher level stuff, people trade between guild members or friends. The currency doesn't have any value except for buying and feeding mounts.
Ryzom is a great game, but don't tell SWG vets that it has everything that they want.
I don't think open world housing really has a place in MMOs unless it can be burned or destroyed. Instanced housing works fairly decent, since it adds replay value for some people and doesn't annoy those who don't want anything to do with housing.
I agree and disagree with you thinktank. In an open world PVP game like Darkfall, I completely agree open world housing and cities should damageable. In a PVE centric game, I do not think housing should be destroyable. I think it should vary from the style of the game.
Having a crafting house full of all your resources and components and crafting stations, then a hall of some sort for your vendors. No other game has come close to the social aspects of this game. Its crafting and housing still are second to none.
Personally I see no value in "housing". In my mind, it qould take a lot of resources for like 12 million peeps to have a house. And, since most all the world is in the client side of the MMO ... (like all the art and positioning and etc) then there would be like a constant updating process going on (for persistent housing any way). I guess instanced housing would be ok as the only one affected should be whoever is "in" the house at the time or owns it.
I mean when I log off my char(s) go to never never land .... and I can't see um anyways. I have a friend who always lays his char down on a bed in an inn before logging off. Of course the char is standing on the bed when he logs back in (yea I am talking wow). I laugh at him. However I do make sure my char is in a "rest" zone (unless it is a maxed out one) for the double xp thing ...
Next after housing maybe a wife/husband and some kids .... we already have pets ... LOL
Love having a house in game, my favorite is SWG! One of the reasons i stuck with game so long in fact. I hope future games will look and swg housing and imrpove upon that.
I love the idea of real world housing but my problem with it is two-fold.
One, having acres and acres of abandoned houses really isn't a good thing. My thought on this is that houses in general should deteriorate if players cancel their subs. If they resub it stops the detioratioin but they then need to spend time building it back up. If they are unsubbed for a while then they could just lose the plot. That's my take on it anyways.
Otherwise you have plots that will never be used and abandoned structures that might just stand there.
Two, are there really going to be enough plots in the game world for thousands upon thousands of houses?
I love the idea of civilized areas and areas that are not civilized. But given that these games worlds aren't really too large, I wonder if thre really can be enough room for everyone without completely wrecking the landscape.
Which MMOs don't have decay/loss for open world houses/plots on inactive accounts? To clarify, I'm not saying none don't, but asking which one's don't.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Another fan of SWG housing. I love that game. You would think that their housing model would have been seen in other games by now. It's really sad. Having your own space, and space others can come inside and see and meet you, is AWESOME. Great article.
The problem with real world housing is the clutter it causes across the game world. Developers can't fill their games with interesting content if every open square inch of the map is covered with houses. It makes the game feel cluttered and abandoned (due to all the neglected properties). Still, I think that open-world housing can be done in a way that works... it just has to be mixed with instanced housing as well.
Consider this: the new MMORPG on the block offers a limited number of open-world housing lots. Areas where both individual houses and even some player cities can be built. These spots are very limited and are very expensive to own and upkeep. This means that only the most dedicated players and guilds who REALLY want these spots will get them. Also spread some open-world guild halls throughout the world in major cities that other players can see and be in awe of. At the same time offer cheaper instanced housing that still must be accessed through a real world location. For instance, a big apartment building with an elevator that takes you to your instanced domicile (or some fantasy equivalent of the same idea). These instanced houses are still "located" on the world, so the cities should not become ghost towns.
All in all, I think some combination of both ideas is the way to go. It would not lead to an overly-cluttered map and it would allow everyone to experience housing. The really dedicated players who want to show off would be able to do so and everyone else would still be required to visit the major cities to access their homes.
In some games, I spend more time decorating my house than I do playing. If I do play, it's to farm for furniture or money for furniture.
"I am the harbinger of hope. I am the sword of the righteous. And to all who hear my words, I say this: What you give to this Empire, I shall give back unto you." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I
Only way MMO housing would really work is to have all of the homes and shops already in the game world and part of the NPC controlled towns, available for purchase by players.
Think of the Fable game series - you don't build a house on a plot of land, you buy the house, customize it, call it your home.
What would this do for the MMO genre?
1. No clutter - no abandoned cities ala SWG, UO.
2. Doesn't drive players out of populated areas into their own private hubs - all these houses already in populated NPC cities/towns so there will always be player traffic: always feel alive.
3. Player stops subbing? House goes back on the market, no one purchases? NPC's take over again.
4. Gives you open world housing in a MMO without all the cr*p we see in both open world and instanced housing in other games.
Full customization inside, outside the house would still have to somewhat "match" the surrounding neighborhood to keep up the asthetic, but it also gives players more options.
Want a nice home in the middle of a bustling city? Done.
A quiet cabin in a small village? Done.
Tie it into the crafting system in the game, you can purchase NPC owned blacksmith/whatever shops, run them as your own store (even keep the NPC's as employees!)
I guess a lot of it would be decided by how large the game world actually was and what kind of world it was. As always, all systems in a MMO are intertwined, you simply cannot create one without fully realizing the implications and interdependencies it has with every other system in the game.
Honestly I could go on and on, and I probably will in a blog some day soon - but you get the general idea.
i liked how there.com handled hosuing you had 2 options. 1 was ther own pre placed housing communities. the roof floors windows and ceiling were all customizables and you had a huge drop rate for custom objects. you could also have weather sound and lighting changes. then there was the porta zone...they came in varying sizes and you could place them anywhere in world even over existing world housing. again all with customizable environments sounds etc
I loved SWG housing. I would go out of my way to build my little cabin at some far out remote location that had the remoteness and stunning views as I "needed".
One of those locations, a small island I gave to a buddy of mine (I was moving to a larger island to setup a guild complex). He later sold that "land" for a ammount that was more than me, my cousin and my buddy's bank accounts combined.
And we played all the way up to the NGE.
But I admit, SWG's housing had its flaws. Mainly because proper developement stopped before launch, and the failsafes and secondary options never got into the game.
Basicly, there never were a option besides building your alotted housing slots to the max.
There were no storefronts you could rent in the cities, there were no bank expansion you could rent, there were no rentable crafting stations in the cities, simply said... You had to build in the iron ring if you wanted the possibilities housing gave...
There were no other options or choices...
And when the noobie devs halted the decay... Urban sprawl became a nightmare.
I think a lot of us are forgetting all the pointless random buildings in NPC cities that served no real purpose in SWG. They were only there for eye candy and provide lag. I think those buildings could have served a better purpose as instanced apartments. The buildings in the major city on Corellia would have been more than adequate.
Then you have space stations that could have been used in this manner as well. It's not like it would have taken a lot to recreate the inner workings of a space station considering they spent time on multiplayer ships.
Today's developers either don't get it or are just really, really lazy. Housing that is integral to the virtual world has an enormous impact on immersion. This instancing, apatrment style housing just isn't even worth the effort to implement. Most games have cities in them that can hardly even be termed as third world villages. Put neighborhoods of housing around the core cities, just like we do in real life and guess what, you have a thriving center of socialization, trading and a great place to find groups. Now, when you run around a city, you actually feel like it is a city, where your home is actually part and parcel of the virtual world.
I was talking about one specific game (SWG) and specific cities (i.e. Coronet if I remember correctly).
I was discussing an alternate idea to having essentially a bank that you can decorate and possibly look out a window and see some landscape. Imagine the view on the top floor of those buildings.
I also found those houses around the major NPC cities didn't blend. All they turned out to be were merchant houses and served no other purpose. I did not like having to dodge houses on my speeder to go somewhere, risking getting stuck. I am sure a lot of us went AFK following someone on our speeders and got stuck because of the cluttered houses around NPC cities. This was my experience and some probably had better ones.
Now, player cities between NPC cities were believable and served a purpose, with shuttle ports, cantinas, mission terminals, medical facilities, etc. I cannot believe I am still talking about a dead game...
Comments
You need to play Vanguard. Or you would if the pr**ks at Sony hadn't deserted the game. My mind boggles and gets annoyed when I think of how good that game is, and how much better it could be if phony Sony could put even 10 devs on it.
BA****DS !! They screwed SWG and Vanguard !! I'm really not sure if I could play anything else of theirs now, I'm sure they bought Vanguard to let it die so it wouldnt be competition for EQ-Next or whatever it's called..
Sorry for going off topic but they p*ss me off !!
Dude, I'm playing Ryzom too and I like it a lot, but don't post false advertisements, especially to SWG vets.
I won't argue on the crafting, but being able to purchase an instanced apartment is so far, far away from what you can do in SWG. Far.
As for the economy, it barely exists. In this game, it will take you one second to ask for low-mid level stuff, and people will trip over themselves to give you the best stuff for your level. It's harder for you to go to the player vendor (because people generally don't put stuff up for sale) than to ask for it, free. And this is with complete strangers.
The higher level stuff, people trade between guild members or friends. The currency doesn't have any value except for buying and feeding mounts.
Ryzom is a great game, but don't tell SWG vets that it has everything that they want.
Good article. About the housing, im waiting for ArcheAge. I believe it will have everything u wish.
Count me among the supposed minority who oppose player housing. It's something that I don't want in the games that I play.
I don't think open world housing really has a place in MMOs unless it can be burned or destroyed. Instanced housing works fairly decent, since it adds replay value for some people and doesn't annoy those who don't want anything to do with housing.
I agree and disagree with you thinktank. In an open world PVP game like Darkfall, I completely agree open world housing and cities should damageable. In a PVE centric game, I do not think housing should be destroyable. I think it should vary from the style of the game.
SWG /sniff.
Having a crafting house full of all your resources and components and crafting stations, then a hall of some sort for your vendors. No other game has come close to the social aspects of this game. Its crafting and housing still are second to none.
Just adding something here for open world housing and decay.
Why stop there? Require construction materials. And allow decaying, ownerless houses to be torn down for their free materials.
Once upon a time....
Personally I see no value in "housing". In my mind, it qould take a lot of resources for like 12 million peeps to have a house. And, since most all the world is in the client side of the MMO ... (like all the art and positioning and etc) then there would be like a constant updating process going on (for persistent housing any way). I guess instanced housing would be ok as the only one affected should be whoever is "in" the house at the time or owns it.
I mean when I log off my char(s) go to never never land .... and I can't see um anyways. I have a friend who always lays his char down on a bed in an inn before logging off. Of course the char is standing on the bed when he logs back in (yea I am talking wow). I laugh at him. However I do make sure my char is in a "rest" zone (unless it is a maxed out one) for the double xp thing ...
Next after housing maybe a wife/husband and some kids .... we already have pets ... LOL
If Ya Ain't Dyin, Ya Ain't Tryin
Love having a house in game, my favorite is SWG! One of the reasons i stuck with game so long in fact. I hope future games will look and swg housing and imrpove upon that.
Which MMOs don't have decay/loss for open world houses/plots on inactive accounts? To clarify, I'm not saying none don't, but asking which one's don't.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Another fan of SWG housing. I love that game. You would think that their housing model would have been seen in other games by now. It's really sad. Having your own space, and space others can come inside and see and meet you, is AWESOME. Great article.
The problem with real world housing is the clutter it causes across the game world. Developers can't fill their games with interesting content if every open square inch of the map is covered with houses. It makes the game feel cluttered and abandoned (due to all the neglected properties). Still, I think that open-world housing can be done in a way that works... it just has to be mixed with instanced housing as well.
Consider this: the new MMORPG on the block offers a limited number of open-world housing lots. Areas where both individual houses and even some player cities can be built. These spots are very limited and are very expensive to own and upkeep. This means that only the most dedicated players and guilds who REALLY want these spots will get them. Also spread some open-world guild halls throughout the world in major cities that other players can see and be in awe of. At the same time offer cheaper instanced housing that still must be accessed through a real world location. For instance, a big apartment building with an elevator that takes you to your instanced domicile (or some fantasy equivalent of the same idea). These instanced houses are still "located" on the world, so the cities should not become ghost towns.
All in all, I think some combination of both ideas is the way to go. It would not lead to an overly-cluttered map and it would allow everyone to experience housing. The really dedicated players who want to show off would be able to do so and everyone else would still be required to visit the major cities to access their homes.
In some games, I spend more time decorating my house than I do playing. If I do play, it's to farm for furniture or money for furniture.
"I am the harbinger of hope. I am the sword of the righteous. And to all who hear my words, I say this: What you give to this Empire, I shall give back unto you."
-Empress Jamyl Sarum I
Only way MMO housing would really work is to have all of the homes and shops already in the game world and part of the NPC controlled towns, available for purchase by players.
Think of the Fable game series - you don't build a house on a plot of land, you buy the house, customize it, call it your home.
What would this do for the MMO genre?
1. No clutter - no abandoned cities ala SWG, UO.
2. Doesn't drive players out of populated areas into their own private hubs - all these houses already in populated NPC cities/towns so there will always be player traffic: always feel alive.
3. Player stops subbing? House goes back on the market, no one purchases? NPC's take over again.
4. Gives you open world housing in a MMO without all the cr*p we see in both open world and instanced housing in other games.
Full customization inside, outside the house would still have to somewhat "match" the surrounding neighborhood to keep up the asthetic, but it also gives players more options.
Want a nice home in the middle of a bustling city? Done.
A quiet cabin in a small village? Done.
Tie it into the crafting system in the game, you can purchase NPC owned blacksmith/whatever shops, run them as your own store (even keep the NPC's as employees!)
I guess a lot of it would be decided by how large the game world actually was and what kind of world it was. As always, all systems in a MMO are intertwined, you simply cannot create one without fully realizing the implications and interdependencies it has with every other system in the game.
Honestly I could go on and on, and I probably will in a blog some day soon - but you get the general idea.
i liked how there.com handled hosuing you had 2 options. 1 was ther own pre placed housing communities. the roof floors windows and ceiling were all customizables and you had a huge drop rate for custom objects. you could also have weather sound and lighting changes. then there was the porta zone...they came in varying sizes and you could place them anywhere in world even over existing world housing. again all with customizable environments sounds etc
so say we all
I loved SWG housing. I would go out of my way to build my little cabin at some far out remote location that had the remoteness and stunning views as I "needed".
One of those locations, a small island I gave to a buddy of mine (I was moving to a larger island to setup a guild complex). He later sold that "land" for a ammount that was more than me, my cousin and my buddy's bank accounts combined.
And we played all the way up to the NGE.
But I admit, SWG's housing had its flaws. Mainly because proper developement stopped before launch, and the failsafes and secondary options never got into the game.
Basicly, there never were a option besides building your alotted housing slots to the max.
There were no storefronts you could rent in the cities, there were no bank expansion you could rent, there were no rentable crafting stations in the cities, simply said... You had to build in the iron ring if you wanted the possibilities housing gave...
There were no other options or choices...
And when the noobie devs halted the decay... Urban sprawl became a nightmare.
I think a lot of us are forgetting all the pointless random buildings in NPC cities that served no real purpose in SWG. They were only there for eye candy and provide lag. I think those buildings could have served a better purpose as instanced apartments. The buildings in the major city on Corellia would have been more than adequate.
Then you have space stations that could have been used in this manner as well. It's not like it would have taken a lot to recreate the inner workings of a space station considering they spent time on multiplayer ships.
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Today's developers either don't get it or are just really, really lazy. Housing that is integral to the virtual world has an enormous impact on immersion. This instancing, apatrment style housing just isn't even worth the effort to implement. Most games have cities in them that can hardly even be termed as third world villages. Put neighborhoods of housing around the core cities, just like we do in real life and guess what, you have a thriving center of socialization, trading and a great place to find groups. Now, when you run around a city, you actually feel like it is a city, where your home is actually part and parcel of the virtual world.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
I was talking about one specific game (SWG) and specific cities (i.e. Coronet if I remember correctly).
I was discussing an alternate idea to having essentially a bank that you can decorate and possibly look out a window and see some landscape. Imagine the view on the top floor of those buildings.
I also found those houses around the major NPC cities didn't blend. All they turned out to be were merchant houses and served no other purpose. I did not like having to dodge houses on my speeder to go somewhere, risking getting stuck. I am sure a lot of us went AFK following someone on our speeders and got stuck because of the cluttered houses around NPC cities. This was my experience and some probably had better ones.
Now, player cities between NPC cities were believable and served a purpose, with shuttle ports, cantinas, mission terminals, medical facilities, etc. I cannot believe I am still talking about a dead game...