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GW2 questless system: epic win or epic fail? (POLL)
Elikal
Member UncommonPosts: 7,912
We all know this quest hub system is so yesterdays news. I think almost all of us crave for something new. So when I read about the new GW2 system I was of course excited. You just get into a region, and stuff is happening around you. Sounds very cool.
However, if you played enough MMOs you always see that some innovations sound very great on paper but play quite lame in reality. Take the migrating mobs from Dark and Light. It sounded like an awesome idea to reading about it, like a less stagnant world. In reality it just was a hassle never to know where to go and what to do.
It is where I am a bit on the fence with GW2 lack of quests in the traditional sense. Can this stumble over the conservative nature of MMO gamers? Maybe many prefer this simple old fashioned quest system? Maybe people just prefer to go to some hub and get their quests and they feel overwhelmed otherwise? Or are we all easily being able to slip into the new system? What do you think?
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Comments
Stuff going on in the world with or without you and the world itself being much more dynamic and changing is a very big plus.
But I do think large amounts of people will need or will want the guidance ("omgIneedtolevelupquick!!!"), and that is where the scout npc's and the UI "dynamic event log" and map reminders come in. It will bring people to the action faster, but the down side is that you are, in a way, still working through a "shopping list" in each zone, like in normal quested games.
There won't be much of a problem with "not knowing where to go" I expect.
Personally I don't like all that guidance at all so I hope on the things which Meowhead suggested in another thread: being able to disable it in the ui and really going out there and stumble on things which you didn't anticipate on at all.
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I think a variety would be best. The new events sound great, but there should be more subtle traditional quests too (meaning, old MMO quests, not the tasks we have in modern MMOs). Quests are revealed by just talking to NPCs and maybe they have a secret/quest for you to do that takes you far and wide. Not for the purpose of leveling really, and not even for the promise of reward, but to learn some lore and see some sights, which is what quests used to be about in MMOs.
I still think migrating mobs would be a great idea, I don't know what the problem was in Dark and Light, maybe their game systems just didn't work (I remember many not working). A little exploring never hurt anyone.
It can has that covered with the personal stories
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Not sure about next gen but it most certainly a step in the right direction for mmos.
I remember questing in EverQuest and having to ask the right question to receive a response. Usually just asking about something or someone they mentioned could open up a quest to you. Made things more interesting. When I saw "I,Robot" and the holographic projection of Dr. Lanning, it reminded me of the NPC quest givers in EverQuest. I hope I'm not the only one.
Darkpony casts 'Summon Meowhead'! *poof*
Well, at least one thing I know is that there are supposed to be 'hidden' event triggers... events that start off by things like people finding something hidden behind a waterfall. Which is an example they've used a couple times, which means that everybody who paid close attention pre game launch is probably going to be seen running full force and bouncing off of every waterfall in sight, haha. They say they're even going to add in new event content stealthily in patches and just not tell people.
I hope they really end up supporting it, and that's a robust feature of the game, stealth-new-events.
So far as questing goes, I know they have the personal story, which does seem a lot more like the traditional quests (Except with some player choices... nothing evil, but 'Oh, I only have enough time to save the burning orphanage or burning hospital, which one do I save?' type grey choices, at least...)...
So far as story lore and everything goes, it seems that gaining traits will be an interesting part to that too. I have no idea HOW you find out how to gain traits, but one example they gave was fighting 5 swordsmen to gain a trait you can slot in that improves your sword skills. ... or Elementalists are supposed to find tomes of knowledge and things.
No idea how that will all work out, but there's a lot of chance there to fit in all the lore you'd expect from a robust, fully fleshed out MMORPG background. ... they've got a pretty big writer team, and I'm sure they have to have been doing SOMETHING for the past 5 years. It would be weird if all the interesting background information only ends up being transmitted through the blog articles. :P
Well i have played my share of MMOs and there is one thing we all gamers know realy with almost every MMO; it is hard to step away from that traditional questing system because its so basic and fundemantal. Idk about the majority of you al but when i read all of GW2's innovations i was and still am very excited. To have a game where the action is apparent and is going on all around you? Sounds like a very big plus in my books i vote very excited and know this should be a partial reasoning for its success and hype thus far and hoping for it to still be there with its release.
Has everyone forgot there will be personal story quests in the game too? They are for those that need guidance through the game.
I think the idea is fantastic, I'm more worried about the execution. I've only seen a limited amount of these DEs but they are really just traditional quests that you just *happen* to come across. I'm hoping its done in such a way that the novelty of the "dynamic" execution of these quests won't wear out after doing my 50th quest where instead of killing 30 centaurs trying to attack a town, I'm instead killing 30 lizards from attacking an orchard.
Next gen? Hmm, possibly, a step in the right direction for sure.
Yet another reason this game is standing out i need to start making a list and i may most definitely use that feature. I mean i am so tired of the quest systems everyone uses i dont know about rift and all because i havent bought it but from WoW and Lotro i have played those i mean i cant log back onto LOTRO because im overwhelmed with useless go here kill that quests and i cant log onto WoW because cata killed that pretty much its a bore. I am counting down the days for this game to come out qand im excited about the quest system with a personal story quest..awsome anyone know a good game until it comes around? haha
If it truly scales like they say it will, then I think it will be fabulous. Dynamic events that can actually be done solo / duo / trio all the way up to raid sized and rewarded fairly for it will be a nice change of pace. Rift attempted to do this, but their rifts not only suck in scaling, but soloers get the the major finger when it comes to rewards from them. So, here's to a new game mechanic that will hopefully provide lots of fun no matter your play style with a reward system that is also satisfying for non-raiders.
P.S. I can't help but love a mechanic that rewards you for exploring. I'm so sick of games that actually punish you for exploring by killing you instantly if you move beyond the one tiny single area designated for your level or the ones that virtually lack exporation at all with their single path, railway progression.
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I'm cautiously optimistic about everything GW2. With the whole "personnel story" concept, I'm hopeful there will be plenty to do from day one. Looking forward to some mountain climbing myself. If anybody can pull this off it's Arenanet.
The major difference I personally see between a dynamic event and a quest is that... well, a dynamic event is something you can actually see happening, and that has an impact.
Yes, I understand that centaurs will attack the town again LATER, but that's sort of the way the world works in reality as well. You don't hear police officers saying 'What? ... but we caught a criminal in this city LAST week. Why the heck are we doing this again?'. Especially in a war zone, the back and forth actually makes sense and has a sort of context.
Usually when I get a quest in an MMO, it's either totally, verifiably false (Ogres are attacking the town! ... what... you mean the ones standing around in the daisy field, with a line of players killing them as they stand there?), in some sort of instance, or phased.
Dynamic events actually take place in the world, and can be taken from context. (Hey. Bandits are attacking that farm. I guess I should do something about... nah, who am I kidding? I'm too busy, I'll let somebody else handle it).
... okay, that last quote points out that some people WON'T do things, and maybe DEs have the possibility of feeling overwhelming (Gah, so many things to do, so many people to save, and I swore I saved that guy from monsters yesterday... I just want to look for gold ore...), but they're always a choice, rather than a requirement.
It's a massive step forward in presentation, at least (In my opinion).
Yeah, curious to see how fleshed out things will be myself.
I love depth and diversity and 'unknowns'. Nothing kills a new mmorpg for me faster than having the feeling you've seen and done most of it and know exactly what to expect for the things you haven't touched yet. I remember playing WOW and EVE for the first months and really having the feeling that the game is a behemoth with so much to do, to learn and to discover that it is almost humbling, I crave that feeling now.
Also hoping to train many, many gaits.
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This is the one thing I am most excited about in GW2 and I am very intersted in how it turns out to be.
It is the first thing I tell somebody when I tell him/her about GW2... the normal questsystem is something that has truly pissed me off for a very long time. Just go there and help them, damn it! Oh no I don't have that quest...
Furthermore I believe that it will bring players together much faster. I am really excited to try this out... and I would love to explore the trigger for events.
About that guidance and scout system.. if I'm correct, in the second demo, there was a lot less fog uncovered (and events for that matter), when someone talked to a scout, than in the first one. So that means the scout shows only the main direction a player must go to progress and leaves some areas and events hidden for exploration. Correct me if I'm wrong tho.
Eat me!
Well, you can't be sure before you try it.
The grass looks greener on the other side, especially when there is a hot lady laying down on it :-)
Thing is, I will either like it, or hate it. It does sound cool, when I saw the last vids where they explain about the dynamic questless progression system I was all excited.
But quests is all I know in mmos when we talk about pve advancement, so it could hit me in a very negative way too.
I do appreciate the devs for trying this out on a big mmo!
The problem is too much chaos will turn plenty of people off. Personally I'm all for it, but those that QQ constantly in Rift now about their Quest Train being derailed by Invasions, will be your biggest problem. Hopefully there are more like minded for chaos/dynamic events vs. those that want to check in- know where to go for an hour and check out.
Anet has to work within the limitations of it being a game and those expecting constantly new non-repeatable events to happen - need to check out real life. I hear it's awesome.
No I'm completely there with you, I think the way they present quests in GW2 will be possibly the crowning achievement of the entire game (in my opinion at least). While I expect some quests to be repeated a number of times, as they said events are on a cycle, I'm just hoping that I won't be doing the same things in each area.. that they kind of switch things up a bit.
Of course you won't be able to remove kill, gather and fed'ex quests here, but I hope that the change in presentation will be enough that after I've done my 100th kill quest that it still feels new and dynamic. I'm pretty optimistic about this kind of system as well as TORs though, they both seem to give you enough choices in quest objectives to where you don't feel like you're stuck with that laundry list the old MMOs stick you with.
Honestly, I'm skeptical. Phasing looked interesting on paper but clearly isn't somehing I enjoy, nor do I consider it a positive direction for future MMOs. Beyond that is a we'll see how it goes.
Anything that makes the PvE more enjoyable for me is most welcome.
So sick and tired of mob/quest grinding that all mmo's have these days.
"If I had a d*ck, I'd go get laid. But we can do that next best thing... Let's kill people."
The reason why people like me complain about the invasions is that it focuses on one play style, raiding. If I don't feel like raiding, there's little else to do until the event is over as it gets in the way of everything. Unlike GW2's method which is to have it scale from solo and up. That way you have all play styles covered without alienating anyone.
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I can't vote on that.
In theory is it the best idea in a long time. No full quest journals, no doing 10 quests at the same time, no running on and off to the same questgiver 15 times to be asked to kill 10 of a slightly larger creature every time.
But the idea is unproven, we are talking about large scale here, not just a few PQs or rifts that opens up once in a while. I don't know if this really can keep us busy or not, and neither can anyone here.
We need to try it first, any vote is useless yet, noone of us really know how fun this will be for years.
It certainly won't work if it's a closed in, single path world. It's going to need to be large and expansive and explorable for this to even have a chance at working.
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I very much like the idea so I guess it's all up to how Anet will put it to work.