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Shadow Warrior
Well, I just wanted to let you guys know that after I had leveled my shadow warrior to Rank 40/76 in WAR I always thought the class was a mere shadow of what it could have been and always lacked the 'commando' feel I had hoped for when choosing the class.
Now in rift I just leveled a Marksman/Nightblade/Saboteur to now 38 and feel that this class is exactly what I expected the shadow warrior to be. It's not overpowered (maybe a little in PvP but all rogue/warrior souls are) but features what you'd expect from a guerilla-class. Running speed procs, 30 second stealth, long range damage, powerful CC, viable melee attacks, high fragility. A class that is extremely powerful when staying mobile and dead meat when caught off-guard.
The rift soul-system is definitely one of the upsides, just wanted to say something positive after all the criticism.
M
Comments
Anyone who thinks all rogue souls are OP in PvP is just ill informed. The only things currently even close to a good warrior or mage build is nightblade at level 50.
Sab is good in the lower levels. OP even. AT 50 though its not nearly as awesome as it was.
And almost no one who has any idea about rift pvp thinks MM is all that good since the last bit of beta. And compared to a Pyromancer at level 44+ an MM simply stinks.
Honestly after the last patch i've noticed a lot more balanceing in warfronts.. I'am playing 20-29 lvl warfronts though.. But still, i cant kill everything that walks anymore as a champion and my paragon build is actually viable now.. Shoot, i'am actually useing paragon more for pvp then i'am champion.
Currently Playing:
Rift + Starcraft II + Gears Of War 3 Beta
Well I've played the build to now 42, so I can't say anything valid about endgame with the rogue; I leveled a Pyro/Ele/Domi to 50 though and the class is a pure damager with very little ability to chase or flee; You can't expect a class combination like MM/NB/Sab to outdamage a pure mage-DPS build, since the combination is meant to be all about mobility and tactical movement (slow fields, ton o speed buffs, stealth, stealth-CC, etc)...
Anyways, I just wanted to state that the combination is what the shadow warrior should have been. SWs in WAR start to do decent damage, but they run as fast as anyone, have no stealth and shooting while in movement only for short range targets. Which made the class a complete disaster in RVR.
M
Whats your build specifically, if you dont mind me asking.
And what does MM do for CC/Dmg that a SAB heavy build, could not?
Nothing, choosing to invest into MM over sab is mainly a matter of more CC or more mobility imo. Going deep MM gives you the best anti-CC/mobility possibilities in rogue, probably even in game; COmbined with the ability to practically always pour damage while running at the longest attack range in game.
And my build atm is Nightblade13 up to improved twilight force and snatching dark malady, sabo 5 for 15% dexterity and snare field, deep into Marksman practically speccing every talent. Play style is sneak up on guys, minisap, snare, speed buff, keep at range, spam shots until dead (which isn't long since this build while not being a DPS monster does decent damage). If people break CC you've got a knockback, 2 instant snares, a CC-breaker and 70%run speed buff, another CC-breaker and you just have to get out of combat to get into stealth...
Up until now (level 44) there wasn't a single 1 on 1 which I couldn't escape from if it got fishy. No, not even champs.
M
MM gives almost no CC other than a root. The ranger snare is much better CC in that its longer and usable more often.
MM's main use outside of damage is its CC breaks and increase in speed. However the speed increases are not as amazing as one might initially think.
In PvE mobs typically run somewhere around 120% of player speed. You need both a snare and speed increase, ie. you need the ranger snare.
In PvP the classes you would want to kite, namely warriors, have many CC breaks and also have speed increases as well. Champions can easily have 2 while you only have your speed increase and probably one snare from ranger and a very brief root.
I played a ranger in Aion and in that game I felt I could kite pretty decently when done well or if I made a mistake a melee could catch up. The two rogue ranged souls do not stack up to the Aion ranger class. Not because they lack CC and speed, although they are pretty sparse. But namely because all their tricks are so easily countered.
Whiel I agree with the OP that, in theory, you can create a "better" version of the shadow warrior. When put into context it is roughly similarly effective as it was in WAR namely not very. Probably more fun to play as it gives you a few more options.
I laugh at rangers on my cleric. Literally laugh at them. I have been accosted by one while on my way to an instance. He kept trying to shoot me and then snared me. So I turned around threw on a HoT and blasted him a few times to 50% then I said "You wanna die its fine by me." At no point did I feel in danger because I was not in any danger. He was a nusance and nothing more. Hit him a few times and he goes away like a fly buzzing around you.
The same cannot be said of a mage or a champion I have to take them seriously. In my healing build I can still get away but they are not beneath notice the way a ranger or MM is. Only reason I even turned around agaisnt that ranger is he snared me (and I did not fell like busting my CC break). Otherwise I woulda simply kept running he could shot me all day and done nothing really. Not even put a significant dent in my mana.
Yea agreed; Distance rogues lack the burst and CC to nuke away any healer.
But, if I wanted to kill people, I'd spec a 'sin,
A full MM build has automatic runspeed increase when attacked, automatic stacking run speed increase when spamming a tier 0 attack and addionally an always available, stacking run speed increase finisher plus an all-CC-break and immune 70% run speed buff on a 30 second cooldown. If you fire all these up at maximum range (increased by 20% compared to any mage class btw) no warrior soul in the world will get you if you flee with these babies on board... You can literally reach something like 220% runspeed. And yea, if you really keep the speed buffs up, they indeed _are_ amazing.
For mere PvE btw you can go melee when solo mobs catch up, the tier 1 and 2 nightblade skills are more than enough to finish a solo mob in melee. Any class can btw, solo mobs are cake, as in any other game.
Unlike in WAR, where a shadow warrior in T4 is nailed pretty much all the time by melee classes.
So why spec this build: To get away from the murderous teenagers who roam the shard for kills, AND, to play tactical group PvP where suppression, distraction and stealth matter.
Oh, and by direct comparison between ranger and MM, why decide between the both of them? Just combine them.
M
If you want to range a majority of the time and not rely on a tank pet, you almost have to combine them both if for no other reason than simply for the ranger snare.
I dislike that. MM should have some way to get a decent snare. Perhaps it should be high in the tree.
The issue I have with ranged rogues who want to skirmish is that they don't really shirmish because they do not really threaten much. Running away is not that great.
Just changing their mechanics so that CP moves did 50% of their current damage and the finsihers did double the damage might make them more dangerous (or whatever the math would to have same DPS and better burst that you can chose your time and place to execute ).
A skirmisher needs to be able to build up and burst you. With much harder hitting finsihers that occasional crit on it would make people stand up and take notice.
I don't expect MM or ranger to do more damage. But they need to be a threat or they are not a skirmisher. The point of a skirmisher is to instill fear. You discombobulate them by running then occasionally hit them very hard. This may or may not kill them but it should cause them a large headache.
I am Assassin/Shadowblade. I demolish all I come across. And have a "vanish" if things get tough. 4 mobs same level is very easy. Everyone I jumped so far have either ended up fleeing OR dead. BOOM. I will pump the last 14 pts into Rifstalker.
I am currently 31 Assassin, 21 Bladedancer (charge!), and 0 ranger. I finish mobs & players off at every range. Crazy setup.
Happy gaming all.
PS; this spec aint worth it until you have 31 pts into Assassin; go Nightblade with a few pts into Ranger until then. Crazy that too.
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
Yes but this build is not in anyway like the WAR shadow warrior. I am not sure what shadowblade is? You mean nightblade? Are you Sin/BD or Sin/NB?
No one is gonna dispute that Sin is good for killing people who are attacking PvE mobs while using a PvE build. But Sins do not by any means wreck whomever they please. Not even close.
I have had many of these types of rogues attempt to kill my PvP healing cleric build and they do not do well. A PvE cleric build is easy to kill, but a proper PvP cleric build won't have serious trouble with that build.
Only rogue that gives a good PvP healing cleric build trouble is heavy into Nightblade, but again that is not a shadow warrior, although it is a melee/range hybrid to some extent. NB is quite decent mainly because they can cut down healing by alot and have some very effective CD that give virtual immunity to damage.
But Sin doesn't do enough damage to kill a good cleric during the stun lock. I can heal out of the damage you did in 3 sec and simply detaunt so you won't be able to even come close to winning the damage versus heal race. Then just cleanse the bleeds and proceeed to start to kill you.
Good PvP healing builds have a number of instant cast options that only a silence or -%heal will do much against and only NB and infiltrator has those, but both of those can be countered. However good healing cleric build vs good NB is a decent match and is not cut and dry. But I am not scared of assassin on my healing.
Nightblade is more threatening and has better survivability its main flaw is the need for the use of so many long CD skills. But Sin has a long CD on slip away too.
the bladedancer charge is way too high in the BD tree btw. RS can get basically the same power without the CC (which you don't need with assassin anyway as you can spam a melee range snare). 20 some odd points for a melee rogue to get a gap closer, especially for one with no stealth seems a little whacked to me.
Hey what server do you guys play on?