For whom is EVE

Puciek · April 2011

The most common topic that pop here are people who tried eve, and after 3 months realized that this is not WOW and they come to whine about it. To cut it I've decided to summarize for whom is eve (based on my observation since very early stages of the game).

Eve is for people who have their own goals, are self sufficient, mature, enjoy studying and just LOVE to interact with other people (not necessary by making friends, may very well be with wars and bullets). If you have doubts if you are any of the above, eve is not for you. Trust me on that one, if for example you don't like to study - you will never understand depth of aspect of the game that interests you (every single requires deep research). Or if you don't like to interact - you won't get any help (and everyone needs help, either in form of having a backup while pvping or some people that will prof-read your business plans to you).
Especially if you are not self sufficient and don't really know what you want eve is not for you as there is literally NO IN-GAME INCENTIVE to do anything. Only reason to do anything in eve is to fulfill your own needs. So you PVP to fill your blood lust, you make money to feel the power that comes with it or you build corp/alliance to gain even more power (by either using that alliance to kill other people or to just use them as puppets to make money).

That's it, flame on.

qazyman · April 2011

I agree, I also think it's for players that wan't to see their actions have a real impact on a virtual world. EVE players are looking for more than a game, or at least a persistent game.

Puciek · April 2011

Originally posted by qazyman
I agree, I also think it's for players that wan't to see their actions have a real impact on a virtual world. EVE players are looking for more than a game, or at least a persistent game.

Not everyone looks for that, it's not a preq.

Stormscion · April 2011

spot on

Kyleran · April 2011

Originally posted by Puciek

Originally posted by qazyman

I agree, I also think it's for players that wan't to see their actions have a real impact on a virtual world. EVE players are looking for more than a game, or at least a persistent game.

Not everyone looks for that, it's not a preq.

OK, besides yourself, pretty much everyone else is looking for a good virtual world and EVE delivers it.

Blindchance · April 2011

It is a game for people with too much free time.

Puciek · April 2011

Originally posted by Blindchance
It is a game for people with too much free time.

Isn't that definition of any game ?

qazyman · April 2011

Originally posted by Blindchance
It is a game for people with too much free time.

LOL This!

MMOman101 · April 2011

MMO + RTS + MMO equivalent of watching golf = EVE

The game is more about resources and "diplomacy" than other MMOs; both things that are main stays in RTS games.

Puciek · April 2011

Originally posted by MMOman101
MMO + RTS + MMO equivalent of watching golf = EVE
The game is more about resources and "diplomacy" than other MMOs; both things that are main stays in RTS games.

Another eve myth from someone who played it maybe for a month if any.

gainesvilleg · April 2011

Originally posted by Puciek
After 3 months realized that this is not WOW and they come to whine about it.

Eve is for people who have their own goals, are self sufficient, mature, enjoy studying and just LOVE to interact with other people (not necessary by making friends, may very well be with wars and bullets).

On your first point I think it is clear Eve is not WoW after 3 minutes not 3 months. I mean really the games couldn't be more different: 1) Cartoon graphics and animations versus essentially no graphics (except for some static images of galaxies, ships, and spacestations); 2) Questing centric versus almost no questing; 3) Story based versus almost no story; etc.

I think your second point that Eve is for people who have their own goals is the most salient point. You really need to bring your own objectives to the world or rely on the drama of corporations to keep you entertained. The raw battle mechanics certainly won't be interesting enough and the missions/story from agents are pretty weak. I think if there is one thing that throws off WoW players is that they expect these missions/stories to themselves sustain interest, which they don't in Eve.

As for self sufficient I strongly disagree. If anything Eve is the MMO that requires you to be more reliant on others than any other MMO. In WoW for instance you can be entirely self sufficient right up until end-game RAIDs.

As for mature, it probably does skew more mature. I think the lack of graphics or engaging combat mechanics will certainly scare off many of the kids who grew up after text-based games were once cutting edge. But there are certainly many immature Eve players as well: gate camping anybody?

Studying? I'm actually not sure the skill mechanics of Eve are really that complex. The economy is relatively straighforward as well. I know I probably spent just as much time crunching spreadsheets for WoW as I did studying my skill paths or figuring out how best to take advantage of trade.

Interacting with other people I'd agree with. Eve is the MMO that really is a tedious bore unless you are engaging with other people. The developers really just built the world and any pre-made interesting content is very minimal.

I think the games are so different you can easily play both without any overlap. I think you have to give Blizzard credit for really putting a lot of time in building content, and CCP gets credit for putting a lot of time in creating a viable virtual world and enabling the fun to be created by its subscribers. On the negative, Blizzard should get dinged for not putting enough time making a living breathing world, while CCP might be a bit lazy with how shallow their actual mission content is (if you are going to bother having it, you probably should spend a bit more time on making it interesting or just drop it entirely: it really isn't necessary in Eve).

Just my 2 cents being past subcribers to both WoW and Eve, and have dropped both subscriptions over time due to boredom of both games. They both were great in their own way, but time for something new at least for me...

Puciek · April 2011

On your first point I think it is clear Eve is not WoW after 3 minutes not 3 months. I mean really the games couldn't be more different: 1) Cartoon graphics and animations versus essentially no graphics (except for some static images of galaxies, ships, and spacestations); 2) Questing centric versus almost no questing; 3) Story based versus almost no story; etc.

Most people come to eve and expect another wow clone, trust me on that one as I've been helping newbies for quite some time (this newbies that just got into the game and barely know what they turned on).

I think your second point that Eve is for people who have their own goals is the most salient point. You really need to bring your own objectives to the world or rely on the drama of corporations to keep you entertained. The raw battle mechanics certainly won't be interesting enough and the missions/story from agents are pretty weak. I think if there is one thing that throws off WoW players is that they expect these missions/stories to themselves sustain interest, which they don't in Eve.This part made it pretty clear that you don't have much eve experience and that you didn't do any study part (more on that later).
As for self sufficient I strongly disagree. If anything Eve is the MMO that requires you to be more reliant on others than any other MMO. In WoW for instance you can be entirely self sufficient right up until end-game RAIDs.

Doesn't matter how many friends you have in eve, you need to be solo-able.

As for mature, it probably does skew more mature. I think the lack of graphics or engaging combat mechanics will certainly scare off many of the kids who grew up after text-based games were once cutting edge. But there are certainly many immature Eve players as well: gate camping anybody?

So gate camping == immaturity ? And again, if you think that combat system is not engaging, you've never been into a pvp fight.

Studying? I'm actually not sure the skill mechanics of Eve are really that complex. The economy is relatively straighforward as well. I know I probably spent just as much time crunching spreadsheets for WoW as I did studying my skill paths or figuring out how best to take advantage of trade.

Very obvious you've never did any studying in eve, there is a reason why people write 50+ pages long books about simple aspects of eve as mining (ultimate mining guide was about 80 pages long, capital ships guide - 60, my guide about general war strategy is at 90 pages and I'm not half-way done). Heck, basic trading guide is about 20 pages long.

Interacting with other people I'd agree with. Eve is the MMO that really is a tedious bore unless you are engaging with other people. The developers really just built the world and any pre-made interesting content is very minimal.
I think the games are so different you can easily play both without any overlap. I think you have to give Blizzard credit for really putting a lot of time in building content, and CCP gets credit for putting a lot of time in creating a viable virtual world and enabling the fun to be created by its subscribers. On the negative, Blizzard should get dinged for not putting enough time making a living breathing world, while CCP might be a bit lazy with how shallow their actual mission content is (if you are going to bother having it, you probably should spend a bit more time on making it interesting or just drop it entirely: it really isn't necessary in Eve).
Just my 2 cents being past subcribers to both WoW and Eve, and have dropped both subscriptions over time due to boredom of both games. They both were great in their own way, but time for something new at least for me...

To sum this part - yes, pve content sucks (well, now it's a lot better with wormholes, incursion and planetary interaction) but this is game is player focused so no surprise there. Want good missions ? Join an alliance and go on a scouting mission looking for hostiles to hotdrop. You simply create your own content based on actual need.

This forum is impossible to format, try to go through it.

Puciek · April 2011

Originally posted by MMOman101
Why ask a question you think you have the answer to?
I am sure it is not because you are arrogant........

Eve is for people who have their own goals, are self sufficient, mature, enjoy studying
if for example you don't like to study - you will never understand depth of aspect of the game that interests you

It is not medical school. It is not nuclear propulsion. It is a video game. You can church it up all you want to make yourself seem more important or better than people that play other video games, if that makes you feel better. In the end it is just a game.

Did I include a question mark somewhere around my post ? And yes, i made it to show how better I am than everyone else, isn't that obvious ?

Cecropia · April 2011

Originally posted by Puciek

Originally posted by MMOman101

Why ask a question you think you have the answer to?

I am sure it is not because you are arrogant........

Eve is for people who have their own goals, are self sufficient, mature, enjoy studying

if for example you don't like to study - you will never understand depth of aspect of the game that interests you

It is not medical school. It is not nuclear propulsion. It is a video game. You can church it up all you want to make yourself seem more important or better than people that play other video games, if that makes you feel better. In the end it is just a game.

Did I include a question mark somewhere around my post ? And yes, i made it to show how better I am than everyone else, isn't that obvious ?

When I read posts like that I often wonder if some of the people who end up not liking or understanding EVE take some sort of weird self-esteem hit from the experience. Some of the comments just ooze of bitterness that seems to stem from the fact that a lot of folks love the game and play for years, but for some reason the game just didn't click with them.

It's ok, that's why we have different games for different tastes.

Quirhid · April 2011

I don't see any reason to defend Eve or "brand" people who don't like it. It is what it is. You're mad if you take the negative critisism personally and feel that you need to explain how people might get into such conclusions.

You cannot put all the players who didn't like Eve and put them in one box. Nor can you put Eve players in one box either. It is somewhat arrogant.

EDIT: ...or ignorant.

Lerxst · April 2011

I like seeing how many people EVE fools into thinking they're actually playing a game. I caught on after a few months and that's the reason I stopped.

When I was doing a mix of two things or so for a few days and had to wait another 6 days to learn a skill that let me advance into something more interesting, I realized what EVE was. The topic of debate back then was what to do while NOT playing the game - Newgrounds, read a book, play a console, etc.

It was after about the fourth charge to my CC for my monthly fees that I looked at the statement and kept rought rack of the actual hours spent playing the game that I realized I was paying them not to play. Honeslty, when I've been doing something in-game for a week, it gets fairly old fairly quickly... then I found out I had to wait nearly a week in order to learn the next skill and that no amount of in-game actions or playing would ever change that length of time. That was the nail in the coffin for me.

Call me crazy, but when I pay for a product, I expect to use it for the purpose which it is intended.

PS - Small correction to the title - It's an incomplete thought that needs an additional word added to the ending. For whom is EVE intended. At whom is EVE directed. For whom is EVE enjoyable. Not meant to flame, but I just finished writing a book so these things are a bit fresh on my mind. Plus, you opened the door to the whole well-educated/studied debate in your post...

Castillle · April 2011

Originally posted by Lerxst
I like seeing how many people EVE fools into thinking they're actually playing a game. I caught on after a few months and that's the reason I stopped.

When I was doing a mix of two things or so for a few days and had to wait another 6 days to learn a skill that let me advance into something more interesting, I realized what EVE was. The topic of debate back then was what to do while NOT playing the game - Newgrounds, read a book, play a console, etc.

It was after about the fourth charge to my CC for my monthly fees that I looked at the statement and kept rought rack of the actual hours spent playing the game that I realized I was paying them not to play. Honeslty, when I've been doing something in-game for a week, it gets fairly old fairly quickly... then I found out I had to wait nearly a week in order to learn the next skill and that no amount of in-game actions or playing would ever change that length of time. That was the nail in the coffin for me.

Call me crazy, but when I pay for a product, I expect to use it for the purpose which it is intended.

PS - Small correction to the title - It's an incomplete thought that needs an additional word added to the ending. For whom is EVE intended. At whom is EVE directed. For whom is EVE enjoyable. Not meant to flame, but I just finished writing a book so these things are a bit fresh on my mind. Plus, you opened the door to the whole well-educated/studied debate in your post...

I never experienced this playing eve. I was too busy micro managing my drones while salvaging and doing missions. When i just want eye candy, i mess around with advanced camera and see epic spacebattles

gostly · April 2011

Originally posted by Lerxst
I like seeing how many people EVE fools into thinking they're actually playing a game. I caught on after a few months and that's the reason I stopped.

When I was doing a mix of two things or so for a few days and had to wait another 6 days to learn a skill that let me advance into something more interesting, I realized what EVE was. The topic of debate back then was what to do while NOT playing the game - Newgrounds, read a book, play a console, etc.

It was after about the fourth charge to my CC for my monthly fees that I looked at the statement and kept rought rack of the actual hours spent playing the game that I realized I was paying them not to play. Honeslty, when I've been doing something in-game for a week, it gets fairly old fairly quickly... then I found out I had to wait nearly a week in order to learn the next skill and that no amount of in-game actions or playing would ever change that length of time. That was the nail in the coffin for me.

Call me crazy, but when I pay for a product, I expect to use it for the purpose which it is intended.

PS - Small correction to the title - It's an incomplete thought that needs an additional word added to the ending. For whom is EVE intended. At whom is EVE directed. For whom is EVE enjoyable. Not meant to flame, but I just finished writing a book so these things are a bit fresh on my mind. Plus, you opened the door to the whole well-educated/studied debate in your post...

If this was how you 'played' EVE online, I'm pretty sure you were doing it wrong. I find it easy to stay busy while my skills train(by actually playing the game). I don't find other things to do while I wait for a certain skill to get finished before playing again, that would suck.

It's been said everywhere I look, EVE is not for everyone(and I think that it's almost everyone), that's the bottom line.

gainesvilleg · April 2011

Originally posted by Puciek
1) Doesn't matter how many friends you have in eve, you need to be solo-able.

2) So gate camping == immaturity ? And again, if you think that combat system is not engaging, you've never been into a pvp fight.

3) Very obvious you've never did any studying in eve, there is a reason why people write 50+ pages long books about simple aspects of eve as mining (ultimate mining guide was about 80 pages long, capital ships guide - 60, my guide about general war strategy is at 90 pages and I'm not half-way done). Heck, basic trading guide is about 20 pages long.

1) This is true in any MMO that I've played and I've played a bunch: you need to be good enough to support yourself or what good are you to others? This is no different in WoW or Eve. But my point was in WoW you can actually do most of the game solo, while in Eve you cannot. Eve plain and simple requires you to join groups while WoW doesn't. I'm surprise you are debating this point actually, as this is one of Eve's strengths actually.

2) if camping newbie zones in WoW PVP servers isn't immature, then I guess camping gates in Eve isn't either. You be the judge...

3) As for books written about WoW and Eve, just google or search Amazon. I think you may be surprised at how much is actually written about WoW strategy: even more than Eve strategy. But it doesn't matter because pages written is meaningless, I only point it out because it is what you used to say Eve requires more studying. My main point was Eve really isn't that complex other than the social aspect of it, which isn't a "study" issue it is more of a politics issue. Eve is way more politically complicated but the raw mechancs of Eve is very straightforward in my opinion. Maybe I'm not easily confused (I did go to grad school at MIT, just sayin'...) but I spent just as much time optimizing in WoW then I did in Eve.

And note I am arguing this just because II think the differences between WoW and Eve aren't these "more mature and more intelligent" points, it really is the general game philosophy and primarily the social aspect. I think neither WoW nor Eve is that complicated nor requires any real maturity, although they both require analysis to completely optimize.

Again, believe me or not but I played and enjoyed both games and play neither now. I don't really have an axe to grind here. But I think WoW gets too much of a bum wrap at those that say it is completely immature and for simpletons. You can play it that way, but you won't be very good at it if you do. Same with Eve.

neorandom · April 2011

eve is for the spread sheet analyst

eve is for the people that like to think they see weapons shooting, but dont have to aim or pull triggers to shoot them

eve is for the afk bot

eve is for people who dont like to have fun when they game!

Zyke · April 2011

EVE is for people who's attention span is not measured in minutes and whose thought processes can gap periods of time longer than a few hours.

Hazelle · April 2011

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by Puciek
After 3 months realized that this is not WOW and they come to whine about it.

Eve is for people who have their own goals, are self sufficient, mature, enjoy studying and just LOVE to interact with other people (not necessary by making friends, may very well be with wars and bullets).

On your first point I think it is clear Eve is not WoW after 3 minutes not 3 months. I mean really the games couldn't be more different: 1) Cartoon graphics and animations versus essentially no graphics (except for some static images of galaxies, ships, and spacestations); 2) Questing centric versus almost no questing; 3) Story based versus almost no story; etc.

I think your second point that Eve is for people who have their own goals is the most salient point. You really need to bring your own objectives to the world or rely on the drama of corporations to keep you entertained. The raw battle mechanics certainly won't be interesting enough and the missions/story from agents are pretty weak. I think if there is one thing that throws off WoW players is that they expect these missions/stories to themselves sustain interest, which they don't in Eve.

As for self sufficient I strongly disagree. If anything Eve is the MMO that requires you to be more reliant on others than any other MMO. In WoW for instance you can be entirely self sufficient right up until end-game RAIDs.

As for mature, it probably does skew more mature. I think the lack of graphics or engaging combat mechanics will certainly scare off many of the kids who grew up after text-based games were once cutting edge. But there are certainly many immature Eve players as well: gate camping anybody?

Studying? I'm actually not sure the skill mechanics of Eve are really that complex. The economy is relatively straighforward as well. I know I probably spent just as much time crunching spreadsheets for WoW as I did studying my skill paths or figuring out how best to take advantage of trade.

Interacting with other people I'd agree with. Eve is the MMO that really is a tedious bore unless you are engaging with other people. The developers really just built the world and any pre-made interesting content is very minimal.

I think the games are so different you can easily play both without any overlap. I think you have to give Blizzard credit for really putting a lot of time in building content, and CCP gets credit for putting a lot of time in creating a viable virtual world and enabling the fun to be created by its subscribers. On the negative, Blizzard should get dinged for not putting enough time making a living breathing world, while CCP might be a bit lazy with how shallow their actual mission content is (if you are going to bother having it, you probably should spend a bit more time on making it interesting or just drop it entirely: it really isn't necessary in Eve).

Just my 2 cents being past subcribers to both WoW and Eve, and have dropped both subscriptions over time due to boredom of both games. They both were great in their own way, but time for something new at least for me...

It's odd that you've hit it on the head but still managed to miss just the same...

Slider7 · April 2011

Originally posted by Zyke
EVE is for people who's attention span is not measured in minutes and whose thought processes can gap periods of time longer than a few hours.

Zyke your post is very true...You have to have more than a 5 to 10 minute attention span to play EvE.

Granted that the game is good if you want to go AFK for a short while but do that at your own risk. There are players out there that love to hit those player ships that are on auto-pilot jumping from gate to get to a destination that is 10+ jumps away. (I am guilty of that as well from time to time)

The biggest thing that I can say about EvE is that the game doesn't give you the instant gratification of learning the skills like other MMO's, but makes you appreciate the skills that you have currently and are working for.

TBH...I am glad that the learning curve for the game is steep. That the game makes you think about how to plan out your ship configurations best fit the situations that you are going to put your character into and planning with other players to raid and attack other corporations or just have an epic battle in 0.0 space or wormholes.

I am really glad that they don't start you out in capital ships and a crap load of game money and say have at...even though it would be funnier as all get out to see that happen.

But, really, the game is about making the time to plan your skills for your character out and plan how you are going to make your way in the virtual world called EvE. EvE is not the game to play if you are always in a rush to get from point A to point Z because the fun that I have found for EvE is finding out what there is behind each point as I travel from point A to point Z.

If you can understand that method of thinking and game play then you are much better off than most.

Enjoy!

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