What should I base it on? The content that they have never mentioned and/or is years away from implementation?
Heh, you're claiming that SV is doing more and more things to turn MO into a themepark. I ask what content we see that is indicitive of that trend. You say there isn't any.
If you find that you can't find facts to base your claim on (such as, MO is a theme park), the logical thing to do is abandon your claim, not criticize SV for not adding enough themepark features so that you can mock them for being a themepark.
What do you mean if I can't find evidence? The evidence is right there.
SV has the typical collect x quests, they just don't have yellow exclamation points and quest dialogue. Now they are implementing a "Take this package and deliver it" quest but they won't add the yellow exclamation point or quest dialogue because for some reason that would make it boring and a grind.
SV boldly claimed that they were removing linear progression, and then forgot that having no system of progression at all isn't a non-linear progression model. You grind mobs, that's it. That's how you "level up" in MO. That kind of style is old hat and boring.
So overall SV took quests and removed the yellow exclamation point and the dialogue, bundled it up and called it a "Sandbox feature". They then took away levels, called them skills instead, and said "Look, no leveling means no grind!!!".
Point me to where SV called the tutorial quests a 'sandbox feature'. If you're referring to the system whereby players employ players to deliver items, please tell me what secret details you know that I don't that will somehow turn that into a wow quest. Is it because the server is playing a middle man between players?
The web page specifically says "It will be up to players to deliver the mail and parcels to the recipient's home town or address."
How is this not a generic "Take this package to x in y town"? WoW used to have tons of them. They took them out because they are stupid.
In regards to collect x quests in MO, It's a Sandbox game that's supposed to have sandbox features, right?
From their website... "Mortal Online is a true sandbox. You are free to do whatever you want, whenever you want. The path your character goes is only chosen by you, not by quest NPCs with shiny question marks over their head."
So they remove the shiny question marks but keep the same quests. What a "true" sandbox that is!
WoW's fedex quests were dumb because the items that were being delivered were generated out of thin air to serve no purpose but to give players something to drop off. These packages are obviously not gonna be generated out of thin air, they will be dropped off by players who have their own reasons to have that item and have it delivered...
It sounds a lot like you're reaching for something to complain about, tbh. You can keep trying to actively redefine "sandbox" for the sole purpose of attempting to exclude MO, but if you could do me a favor and post examples of extant MMOs that ARE a sandbox according to all your definitions, it might help me understand your perspective.
To the player who's delivering the package, whether it's generated or it's another player's is totally arbitrary. You're not going to see people shouting amazing, immersive gameplay because they get to deliver a package to another city. It just doesn't matter to the other player because all they care about is the reward.
You're right in the sense that WoW fedex quests were meaningless, but MOs fedex quest is equally meaningless. The difference now is that WoW recognized that and took them out, and MO is bringing them back in.
Wurm online one of the true true hardcore sandbox games have tutorial...tutorial is needed in all games! Withoout tuttorial people dont see what things their could do, they only see a slow pj.
What should I base it on? The content that they have never mentioned and/or is years away from implementation?
Heh, you're claiming that SV is doing more and more things to turn MO into a themepark. I ask what content we see that is indicitive of that trend. You say there isn't any.
If you find that you can't find facts to base your claim on (such as, MO is a theme park), the logical thing to do is abandon your claim, not criticize SV for not adding enough themepark features so that you can mock them for being a themepark.
What do you mean if I can't find evidence? The evidence is right there.
SV has the typical collect x quests, they just don't have yellow exclamation points and quest dialogue. Now they are implementing a "Take this package and deliver it" quest but they won't add the yellow exclamation point or quest dialogue because for some reason that would make it boring and a grind.
SV boldly claimed that they were removing linear progression, and then forgot that having no system of progression at all isn't a non-linear progression model. You grind mobs, that's it. That's how you "level up" in MO. That kind of style is old hat and boring.
So overall SV took quests and removed the yellow exclamation point and the dialogue, bundled it up and called it a "Sandbox feature". They then took away levels, called them skills instead, and said "Look, no leveling means no grind!!!".
Point me to where SV called the tutorial quests a 'sandbox feature'. If you're referring to the system whereby players employ players to deliver items, please tell me what secret details you know that I don't that will somehow turn that into a wow quest. Is it because the server is playing a middle man between players?
The web page specifically says "It will be up to players to deliver the mail and parcels to the recipient's home town or address."
How is this not a generic "Take this package to x in y town"? WoW used to have tons of them. They took them out because they are stupid.
In regards to collect x quests in MO, It's a Sandbox game that's supposed to have sandbox features, right?
From their website... "Mortal Online is a true sandbox. You are free to do whatever you want, whenever you want. The path your character goes is only chosen by you, not by quest NPCs with shiny question marks over their head."
So they remove the shiny question marks but keep the same quests. What a "true" sandbox that is!
WoW's fedex quests were dumb because the items that were being delivered were generated out of thin air to serve no purpose but to give players something to drop off. These packages are obviously not gonna be generated out of thin air, they will be dropped off by players who have their own reasons to have that item and have it delivered...
It sounds a lot like you're reaching for something to complain about, tbh. You can keep trying to actively redefine "sandbox" for the sole purpose of attempting to exclude MO, but if you could do me a favor and post examples of extant MMOs that ARE a sandbox according to all your definitions, it might help me understand your perspective.
To the player who's delivering the package, whether it's generated or it's another player's is totally arbitrary.
No, it's not. The fact that you see no difference between player-created and dev-created tells me again you have no idea why people like sandbox games, and so arguing with you on the value of sandbox content would be a waste.
this patch will be no different from others, very little content, most of which will come broken and will be taken away quickly after release, yet announced as the super MO 3.0 patch.
What should I base it on? The content that they have never mentioned and/or is years away from implementation?
Heh, you're claiming that SV is doing more and more things to turn MO into a themepark. I ask what content we see that is indicitive of that trend. You say there isn't any.
If you find that you can't find facts to base your claim on (such as, MO is a theme park), the logical thing to do is abandon your claim, not criticize SV for not adding enough themepark features so that you can mock them for being a themepark.
What do you mean if I can't find evidence? The evidence is right there.
SV has the typical collect x quests, they just don't have yellow exclamation points and quest dialogue. Now they are implementing a "Take this package and deliver it" quest but they won't add the yellow exclamation point or quest dialogue because for some reason that would make it boring and a grind.
SV boldly claimed that they were removing linear progression, and then forgot that having no system of progression at all isn't a non-linear progression model. You grind mobs, that's it. That's how you "level up" in MO. That kind of style is old hat and boring.
So overall SV took quests and removed the yellow exclamation point and the dialogue, bundled it up and called it a "Sandbox feature". They then took away levels, called them skills instead, and said "Look, no leveling means no grind!!!".
Point me to where SV called the tutorial quests a 'sandbox feature'. If you're referring to the system whereby players employ players to deliver items, please tell me what secret details you know that I don't that will somehow turn that into a wow quest. Is it because the server is playing a middle man between players?
The web page specifically says "It will be up to players to deliver the mail and parcels to the recipient's home town or address."
How is this not a generic "Take this package to x in y town"? WoW used to have tons of them. They took them out because they are stupid.
In regards to collect x quests in MO, It's a Sandbox game that's supposed to have sandbox features, right?
From their website... "Mortal Online is a true sandbox. You are free to do whatever you want, whenever you want. The path your character goes is only chosen by you, not by quest NPCs with shiny question marks over their head."
So they remove the shiny question marks but keep the same quests. What a "true" sandbox that is!
WoW's fedex quests were dumb because the items that were being delivered were generated out of thin air to serve no purpose but to give players something to drop off. These packages are obviously not gonna be generated out of thin air, they will be dropped off by players who have their own reasons to have that item and have it delivered...
It sounds a lot like you're reaching for something to complain about, tbh. You can keep trying to actively redefine "sandbox" for the sole purpose of attempting to exclude MO, but if you could do me a favor and post examples of extant MMOs that ARE a sandbox according to all your definitions, it might help me understand your perspective.
To the player who's delivering the package, whether it's generated or it's another player's is totally arbitrary.
No, it's not. The fact that you see no difference between player-created and dev-created tells me again you have no idea why people like sandbox games, and so arguing with you on the value of sandbox content would be a waste.
You can't sit there and tell me that people are going to carry random stranger's stuff from city to city because "it's player created". That simply the drive of a "Sandbox game" will fuel the entire in game postage industry.
People already don't do mundane things like that. Take a look at keeps. By the way you argue, you think that there would be tons of people jumping at the gun to stand around and guard the keep walls all day. No, nobody wants to do that crap because A. There is no reward, and more importantly B. It's boring as hell.
It's painfully obvious to see that simply "the sandbox aspect" isn't enough to drive players to do it.
Hmm, personally, I'd start after the feature is actually released (or at least described).
Agreed.
People seem to be making a lot of assumptions about the player trading.
"While you can send and receive mail in any major town, packages are not automatically delivered across the world. It will be up to players to deliver the mail and parcels to the recipient's home town or address."
This is the total of what it says on the website. Nowhere do they mention that the delivery would be done by a third party ( i.e. someone other than the buyer or seller)
As Slapshot has pointed out, such a third party delivery system would be fairly easily exploited. Unless you made it such that the third party is given some unlootable, unusable token that automagically turns back into the item when it gets delivered there's nothing stopping the courier from taking the pay and the items.
I expect they would start with a simpler "dropbox" system, such that each city has a secured trading location where the seller can deposit items and the buyer can retrieve them in exchange for the agreed on price. How the delivery gets from seller's hometown to buyer's hometown and the money goes the other direction would be left up to them. The seller could go to the buyer's hometown, the buyer could go to the sellers hometow, or they could arrange for a third party to handle it (caveat emptor).
Originally posted by forcem
Wurm online one of the true true hardcore sandbox games have tutorial...tutorial is needed in all games! Withoout tuttorial people dont see what things their could do, they only see a slow pj.
I understand your point, but.... when did Wurm come out and when did they add the tutorial?
As I mentioned above, where is Tindrem? Oh right it was supposed to be part of the original release in July 2010...Today all it is, is a giant ground texture, a big wall, the 2 statues and the arena...
So...They haven't even finished content that was due for the july 2010 release but they want to release other content?...
The whole "deliver the packages yourself" deal just screams to me that they don't have the programming knowledge in house to develop a reasonable system, so it's going to be snail mail for everybody instead.
I know you can tout this as a "feature" but this is really ridiculous.
The whole "deliver the packages yourself" deal just screams to me that they don't have the programming knowledge in house to develop a reasonable system, so it's going to be snail mail for everybody instead.
I know you can tout this as a "feature" but this is really ridiculous.
Player-driven content = sandbox. Come on now... What's a reasonable system? Some NPC transports it? Deny players a feature that can both earn starter income and learn the layout of the continent because, what, it's not as convenient to people who don't want to move their own packages?
What MO needs, IMHO, are more systems that streamline and automate player-to-player interaction (I don't mean conversation necessarily, but any transfer of goods and/or services). It sounds like that's exactly what this feature is doing... so I'm hesitant to get too excited (unlike everyone else here), but you can't just call incompetence because you don't like the game design decisions being made.
With Dawn we are starting to introduce better trade tools, for instance for handling offline transactions between players. We are also taking the first steps with transport service tools.
With the initial Dawn release, players will have access to a new mail system. This will allow players to trade items and messages with others whether they're currently online or offline. As expected in Mortal Online, there is a large twist when compared to traditional MMORPG mail systems. While you can send and receive mail in any major town, packages are not automatically delivered across the world. It will be up to players to deliver the mail and parcels to the recipient's home town or address.
I just don't see this as being successful at all. Maybe when it first comes out you will get people doing these errands. But a few months down the road nobody is going to bother with the boring task of carrying strangers packages across the world for a meager amount of cash.
Too much realism is a bad thing, and SV doesn't seem to understand when enough is enough.
although we don't know exactly how this will work........
unless carrying mail gives you immunity what happens to the mail when a carrier gets ganked - interesting huh
and no mention of the capital city of Tindrem(sp?)
has that been dropped altogether?
wish there was a mention of a new downloader/patcher doo-dad - - - can't even try the trial
The whole "deliver the packages yourself" deal just screams to me that they don't have the programming knowledge in house to develop a reasonable system, so it's going to be snail mail for everybody instead.
I know you can tout this as a "feature" but this is really ridiculous.
Player-driven content = sandbox. Come on now... What's a reasonable system? Some NPC transports it? Deny players a feature that can both earn starter income and learn the layout of the continent because, what, it's not as convenient to people who don't want to move their own packages?
What MO needs, IMHO, are more systems that streamline and automate player-to-player interaction (I don't mean conversation necessarily, but any transfer of goods and/or services). It sounds like that's exactly what this feature is doing... so I'm hesitant to get too excited (unlike everyone else here), but you can't just call incompetence because you don't like the game design decisions being made.
Tools for player driven content = sandbox.
You can't just have an empty world and say "oh this is now a feature" when it takes almost no code at all to implement. Right now the world of MO is merely a BOX, with no sand in it.
This is not an expansion. Hell these should just be normal core features. This is just MO trying to get people to re-sub to a game that is currently failing. Nothing has changed other than adding more complex features that is more irritating than fun.
Arguing over whether it can be called an expansion or a patch seems pretty pointless when it's free.
If you think these are"normal core features" you really should reread the plans http://www.mortalonline.com/expansions. Personally I can't think of any game that has genetic variability and breeding in mounts, much less as a "core feature".
P.S. From your post I take it that you don't subscribe. How do you know how irritating /fun any features are,
I think the idea here is that server stability should be a core-feature. It almost seems like they are up in arms about the fact that they were finally able to get the server to stay up for longer than 2 days. I think a finished UI should be a core feature. The ability to attack something/someone and actually hit them (because they are actually where you see them). New player tutorials should be core features.
Starvault is too busy trying to do these super calculations with their weather system, horse breeding, incredibly complex crafting systems and the like. If they put as much effort into system and server stability/performance, network coding, animations, game world/UI design, marketing, and communication with their community... They would have a hit on their hands. Instead, they focus on things that no one really cares about. Mount breeding? All fluff. Hunger system? Great. Should have been in at launch like Ultima Online.
And for gods sake, what's with the 1st person perspective? Even Darkfall got the memo when their players were screaming for a 3rd person view. These companies must like a bloody forehead, because all I see is a bunch of amatuers smashing their head against brick walls when it comes to sandbox.
Just my opinion. And yes, I subscribed. And yes, I follow the game. And yes, I really do hope it succeeds.
I would not play this game if it didn't have what it has. I love finally having a first person game, you really have no idea.
With Dawn we are starting to introduce better trade tools, for instance for handling offline transactions between players. We are also taking the first steps with transport service tools.
With the initial Dawn release, players will have access to a new mail system. This will allow players to trade items and messages with others whether they're currently online or offline. As expected in Mortal Online, there is a large twist when compared to traditional MMORPG mail systems. While you can send and receive mail in any major town, packages are not automatically delivered across the world. It will be up to players to deliver the mail and parcels to the recipient's home town or address.
I just don't see this as being successful at all. Maybe when it first comes out you will get people doing these errands. But a few months down the road nobody is going to bother with the boring task of carrying strangers packages across the world for a meager amount of cash.
Too much realism is a bad thing, and SV doesn't seem to understand when enough is enough.
Courier contracts seems to be working very well in Eve.
With Dawn we are starting to introduce better trade tools, for instance for handling offline transactions between players. We are also taking the first steps with transport service tools.
With the initial Dawn release, players will have access to a new mail system. This will allow players to trade items and messages with others whether they're currently online or offline. As expected in Mortal Online, there is a large twist when compared to traditional MMORPG mail systems. While you can send and receive mail in any major town, packages are not automatically delivered across the world. It will be up to players to deliver the mail and parcels to the recipient's home town or address.
I just don't see this as being successful at all. Maybe when it first comes out you will get people doing these errands. But a few months down the road nobody is going to bother with the boring task of carrying strangers packages across the world for a meager amount of cash.
Too much realism is a bad thing, and SV doesn't seem to understand when enough is enough.
Courier contracts seems to be working very well in Eve.
Indeed, would probabely work in Mortal Online as well!
With Dawn we are starting to introduce better trade tools, for instance for handling offline transactions between players. We are also taking the first steps with transport service tools.
With the initial Dawn release, players will have access to a new mail system. This will allow players to trade items and messages with others whether they're currently online or offline. As expected in Mortal Online, there is a large twist when compared to traditional MMORPG mail systems. While you can send and receive mail in any major town, packages are not automatically delivered across the world. It will be up to players to deliver the mail and parcels to the recipient's home town or address.
I just don't see this as being successful at all. Maybe when it first comes out you will get people doing these errands. But a few months down the road nobody is going to bother with the boring task of carrying strangers packages across the world for a meager amount of cash.
Too much realism is a bad thing, and SV doesn't seem to understand when enough is enough.
Courier contracts seems to be working very well in Eve.
Indeed, would probabely work in Mortal Online as well!
We'll have to see how it's implemented, but it fits the type of gameworld they've created, and could be a great addition to the overall gameplay.
Most of the Dawn expansion appears to be a step in the right direction - at least in the direction I'd like to see it continue going.
Keep in mind that there has been no significant patching to the game in the last 2 months. It will be interesting to see what happens in the next week or so when this "expansion" is released. I would wager my house that the server stability returns to it's previous levels.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Yeah, well. Since it was the memory and front end issues they solved I'm not sure it will get affected by the patch! Easy now so you dont get homeless =P
Comments
Hmm, personally, I'd start after the feature is actually released (or at least described).
To the player who's delivering the package, whether it's generated or it's another player's is totally arbitrary. You're not going to see people shouting amazing, immersive gameplay because they get to deliver a package to another city. It just doesn't matter to the other player because all they care about is the reward.
You're right in the sense that WoW fedex quests were meaningless, but MOs fedex quest is equally meaningless. The difference now is that WoW recognized that and took them out, and MO is bringing them back in.
Sadly, so would SV it would seem.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Wurm online one of the true true hardcore sandbox games have tutorial...tutorial is needed in all games! Withoout tuttorial people dont see what things their could do, they only see a slow pj.
No, it's not. The fact that you see no difference between player-created and dev-created tells me again you have no idea why people like sandbox games, and so arguing with you on the value of sandbox content would be a waste.
this patch will be no different from others, very little content, most of which will come broken and will be taken away quickly after release, yet announced as the super MO 3.0 patch.
btw is Tindrem really there yet?
You can't sit there and tell me that people are going to carry random stranger's stuff from city to city because "it's player created". That simply the drive of a "Sandbox game" will fuel the entire in game postage industry.
People already don't do mundane things like that. Take a look at keeps. By the way you argue, you think that there would be tons of people jumping at the gun to stand around and guard the keep walls all day. No, nobody wants to do that crap because A. There is no reward, and more importantly B. It's boring as hell.
It's painfully obvious to see that simply "the sandbox aspect" isn't enough to drive players to do it.
Agreed.
People seem to be making a lot of assumptions about the player trading.
"While you can send and receive mail in any major town, packages are not automatically delivered across the world. It will be up to players to deliver the mail and parcels to the recipient's home town or address."
This is the total of what it says on the website. Nowhere do they mention that the delivery would be done by a third party ( i.e. someone other than the buyer or seller)
As Slapshot has pointed out, such a third party delivery system would be fairly easily exploited. Unless you made it such that the third party is given some unlootable, unusable token that automagically turns back into the item when it gets delivered there's nothing stopping the courier from taking the pay and the items.
I expect they would start with a simpler "dropbox" system, such that each city has a secured trading location where the seller can deposit items and the buyer can retrieve them in exchange for the agreed on price. How the delivery gets from seller's hometown to buyer's hometown and the money goes the other direction would be left up to them. The seller could go to the buyer's hometown, the buyer could go to the sellers hometow, or they could arrange for a third party to handle it (caveat emptor).
I understand your point, but.... when did Wurm come out and when did they add the tutorial?
As I mentioned above, where is Tindrem? Oh right it was supposed to be part of the original release in July 2010...Today all it is, is a giant ground texture, a big wall, the 2 statues and the arena...
So...They haven't even finished content that was due for the july 2010 release but they want to release other content?...
The whole "deliver the packages yourself" deal just screams to me that they don't have the programming knowledge in house to develop a reasonable system, so it's going to be snail mail for everybody instead.
I know you can tout this as a "feature" but this is really ridiculous.
Player-driven content = sandbox. Come on now... What's a reasonable system? Some NPC transports it? Deny players a feature that can both earn starter income and learn the layout of the continent because, what, it's not as convenient to people who don't want to move their own packages?
What MO needs, IMHO, are more systems that streamline and automate player-to-player interaction (I don't mean conversation necessarily, but any transfer of goods and/or services). It sounds like that's exactly what this feature is doing... so I'm hesitant to get too excited (unlike everyone else here), but you can't just call incompetence because you don't like the game design decisions being made.
although we don't know exactly how this will work........
unless carrying mail gives you immunity what happens to the mail when a carrier gets ganked - interesting huh
and no mention of the capital city of Tindrem(sp?)
has that been dropped altogether?
wish there was a mention of a new downloader/patcher doo-dad - - - can't even try the trial
Tools for player driven content = sandbox.
You can't just have an empty world and say "oh this is now a feature" when it takes almost no code at all to implement. Right now the world of MO is merely a BOX, with no sand in it.
I would not play this game if it didn't have what it has. I love finally having a first person game, you really have no idea.
Welcome to myself. I love you.
Real Tyler Smith
Courier contracts seems to be working very well in Eve.
I have to add the ironic part about this... Dawn was the name of an MMO that was vaporware.
I'm not sure if most of you remember, but I do. It's just kind of funny.
I remember that game!
Indeed, would probabely work in Mortal Online as well!
We'll have to see how it's implemented, but it fits the type of gameworld they've created, and could be a great addition to the overall gameplay.
Most of the Dawn expansion appears to be a step in the right direction - at least in the direction I'd like to see it continue going.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
Yes, it is moving in the right direction! I cannot wait for the new mount system, and the graveyards. Those look damn awesome from the pic!
Expansion? Have they solved the stability problems?
Last I heard the servers could not stay up for 24 hours before going down.
My gaming blog
Yes. Last time it was up 50 hours before they took it down themselves. So that is long gone!
To be clear... by last time you mean 3 weeks ago.
http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/60372-server-stability-small-patch.html
Keep in mind that there has been no significant patching to the game in the last 2 months. It will be interesting to see what happens in the next week or so when this "expansion" is released. I would wager my house that the server stability returns to it's previous levels.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Yeah, well. Since it was the memory and front end issues they solved I'm not sure it will get affected by the patch! Easy now so you dont get homeless =P