And that's different from your response to the OP.... how?
and... my support of the comment is due to the massive straw man set up in the OP's first part rant. He could've said Bill took great pride in punching kittens and he wouldn't be much further off the mark.
I don't disagree with the idea that more realism COULD make a better game. But I certainly wouldn't disagree with Bill on the examples that he brought up.
Edit to add an example: Do you honestly think Bill was railing against 3D gaming?
The OP stated that the columnists idea of realism is skewed from what realism actually IS in video games. He went on to state that those ideas of realism are ridiculous, and are NOT what gamers are striving for with realism in their games. The column's ideas of realism are NOT what gamers associate with realism in their MMOs. In that, I agree whole-heartedly with the OP of this thread.
Again, I hardly see where any of that is trolling. He brought up graphics and other features to point out what he feels are ACTUAL cases for the argument of realism. AGAIN, not seeing why anyone is jumping on his case here.
Aside from the opinion of whether or not he is trolling. The entire comment is based off of a predetermined idea that realism in gaming is completely limited to graphics. THEY ARE NOT. Look at bioware's famous SPRPG's, romance, relationship, moral decisions. Look at all the stories and forum posts involving the calling for player housing in different MMO's, people have been calling for some sort of first person design in EVE for years. PErma death is also tossed around, or some sort of more realistic death penalty.
Just because you think one way doesn't mean everyone else is ridiculous for wanting something else. I for one could care less about housing and that stuff, but hey if some people wanted, good on them, but don't come in here under the guise of some sort of intellectual superiority and claim you are the end all be all of player wants and thoughts.
Some people want the realism having to do with the Sims style realism, and that's what this writer wasn't speaking specifically about, you'll notice that he didn't say anything about visual realism. He was simply stating that the people calling for Sims realism don't understand how the games would be made worse by over exaggerating these concepts. I don't think anyone disagrees that graphical realism would be an amazing addition to any game, barring it doesn't hamper the gameplay by slowing everything down.
In no way did I say that player housing isn't desired. But that wasn't what the columnist stated would make things worse, unless you include housing as something that would make a game Sims-like. And perma-death was only a briefly mentioned idea that he stated would be 'as far' as he would ever go with realism. It wasn't something he was trying to make a point with. Seriously, you're interpreting the same article completely different, which is leading you to interpret my words incorrectly. So kindly, don't put words in my mouth that I'm "trying to be the end all of player thoughts". You're simply taking what I'm saying and twisting it to give weight to your argument.
And quit with this 'intellectual superiority' garbage. That's just your way of acting superior yourself, as if the way I present myself by speaking intelligently is in any way meant to belittle someone.
Seriously.. misinterpretations all around in this thread, including my own posts. It's all perspective, and my perspective was that you were jumping all over something which was never intended to start a fight, but to disagree with a point being made in the article.
The OP stated that the columnists idea of realism is skewed from what realism actually IS in video games. He went on to state that those ideas of realism are ridiculous, and are NOT what gamers are striving for with realism in their games. The column's ideas of realism are NOT what gamers associate with realism in their MMOs. In that, I agree whole-heartedly with the OP of this thread.
I for one could care less about housing and that stuff, but hey if some people wanted, good on them, but don't come in here under the guise of some sort of intellectual superiority and claim you are the end all be all of player wants and thoughts.
So kindly, don't put words in my mouth that I'm "trying to be the end all of player thoughts". You're simply taking what I'm saying and twisting it to give weight to your argument.
I agree, this is all mostly opinion. I just don't agree with the OP's coming onto the forums and posting "are you effing kidding me" about something Bill wrote, just because he thinks everyone else is ridiculous for thinking of realism as anything outside of graphical realism. Bill was specifically writing to people who have voiced their want of Sims style realism outside of visual realism. He was not writing about more lifelike graphics, and to say he was saying that kind of realism is part of his point is ridiculous in itself. Both you and OP are arguing a point that he never even mentioned nor from my understanding even meant to imply or thought.
The people he's talking about are not complaining because the graphics don't look real, they're strictly complaining about having housing and peeing in the street of stormwind, or having kids and getting married.
Take housing off that list, please.
I don't even care so much for housing but housing--especially instanced, but even real world housing--is possible and is a fair desire. You want somewhere to show your trophies and even, kind of, a visual representation of where you're holding your 300 items. FFXI was also totally cool for a mannequin for each gender and race and you put a suit of armor on the rack. That was neat. Late in the game, after the third expansion, they made it possible for you to invite other players into your "Mog house" and it was very cool to show your friends what you had set up.
Guild housing should be available as well. A WoW forum poster had the awesome idea, in that game, that guild housing could be on airships flying far enough above or away from the main city so that there was time for their precious phasing technology to kick in basically instancing a block of atmosphere. While warship battles would be epic and awesome as a minigame, that wasn't even the chief reason for the desire.
Housing is one of the ways that MMOs can improve even if they insist on the same themepark funland. In the case of instanced housing, it only changes their game by a mere door they might possibly never enter (maybe they could have a toggle and just go talk to their main-gameworld NPC about the contents of their bank. It has no negative effect on casuals or raiders, and there's no logical reason we're not doing it.
As I said in the other thread in my first post there. I don't want a WoW-killer, but I want something to bite away enough of their sub base that they start caring again, their 4/1 patch notes announce some deformed implementation of a few things players have wanted over the years proving that they're just too big to care. They are an MMO monopoly and they demonstrate what can be terrible--and usually is--about a monopoly.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug. 12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
The people he's talking about are not complaining because the graphics don't look real, they're strictly complaining about having housing and peeing in the street of stormwind, or having kids and getting married.
Take housing off that list, please.
I don't even care so much for housing but housing--especially instanced, but even real world housing--is possible and is a fair desire. You want somewhere to show your trophies and even, kind of, a visual representation of where you're holding your 300 items. FFXI was also totally cool for a mannequin for each gender and race and you put a suit of armor on the rack. That was neat. Late in the game, after the third expansion, they made it possible for you to invite other players into your "Mog house" and it was very cool to show your friends what you had set up.
Guild housing should be available as well. A WoW forum poster had the awesome idea, in that game, that guild housing could be on airships flying far enough above or away from the main city so that there was time for their precious phasing technology to kick in basically instancing a block of atmosphere. While warship battles would be epic and awesome as a minigame, that wasn't even the chief reason for the desire.
Housing is one of the ways that MMOs can improve even if they insist on the same themepark funland. In the case of instanced housing, it only changes their game by a mere door they might possibly never enter (maybe they could have a toggle and just go talk to their main-gameworld NPC about the contents of their bank. It has no negative effect on casuals or raiders, and there's no logical reason we're not doing it.
As I said in the other thread in my first post there. I don't want a WoW-killer, but I want something to bite away enough of their sub base that they start caring again, their 4/1 patch notes announce some deformed implementation of a few things players have wanted over the years proving that they're just too big to care. They are an MMO monopoly and they demonstrate what can be terrible--and usually is--about a monopoly.
Hmm, true there are some merits to housing, depending on the person. I was not trying to represent housing as something horribly stupid. I was trying to convey the realism Bill was writing about, the Sims style realism, whatever you call it, and not graphical realism.
I agree, this is all mostly opinion. I just don't agree with the OP's coming onto the forums and posting "are you effing kidding me" about something Bill wrote, just because he thinks everyone else is ridiculous for thinking of realism as anything outside of graphical realism. Bill was specifically writing to people who have voiced their want of Sims style realism outside of visual realism. He was not writing about more lifelike graphics, and to say he was saying that kind of realism is part of his point is ridiculous in itself. Both you and OP are arguing a point that he never even mentioned nor from my understanding even meant to imply or thought.
You know what the most popular online game of all time is? If you guessed WoW you guessed wrong. It's got less than a 1/5 as many users. Second Life? You're a lot closer... Give up? It's Farmville. And even that is way too unrealistic for most people.
A long time ago in a galaxy far far away video games were for kids and much like with children's literature the easiest way to make money was to churn out rehashed high fantasy and science fiction. Now the playerbase is growing up, games are becoming more a way of life, and yet game studios are still cranking out the same limited appeal fantasy and sci-fi they were 20 years ago. It's really kind of hard to believe.
You want to make a killing in the MMORPG world post WoW? Don't rip off Tolkien (coughTurbinecough) or Lucas (coughBiowarecough)... Rip off Harlequin.
TL;DR
Believe it or not most people don't want to be a wizard, an elf, a space marine, or ride a my little pony. They want to have nice things, go nice places, and in general be rich, attractive, and frequently screwing someone(/people) even more attractive than they are.
A vritual world is like our second world.. or another community wherein you are the one to set what you would like to be... and people will know you differently.../
Comments
Truth
In no way did I say that player housing isn't desired. But that wasn't what the columnist stated would make things worse, unless you include housing as something that would make a game Sims-like. And perma-death was only a briefly mentioned idea that he stated would be 'as far' as he would ever go with realism. It wasn't something he was trying to make a point with. Seriously, you're interpreting the same article completely different, which is leading you to interpret my words incorrectly. So kindly, don't put words in my mouth that I'm "trying to be the end all of player thoughts". You're simply taking what I'm saying and twisting it to give weight to your argument.
And quit with this 'intellectual superiority' garbage. That's just your way of acting superior yourself, as if the way I present myself by speaking intelligently is in any way meant to belittle someone.
Seriously.. misinterpretations all around in this thread, including my own posts. It's all perspective, and my perspective was that you were jumping all over something which was never intended to start a fight, but to disagree with a point being made in the article.
no twisting
I agree, this is all mostly opinion. I just don't agree with the OP's coming onto the forums and posting "are you effing kidding me" about something Bill wrote, just because he thinks everyone else is ridiculous for thinking of realism as anything outside of graphical realism. Bill was specifically writing to people who have voiced their want of Sims style realism outside of visual realism. He was not writing about more lifelike graphics, and to say he was saying that kind of realism is part of his point is ridiculous in itself. Both you and OP are arguing a point that he never even mentioned nor from my understanding even meant to imply or thought.
Take housing off that list, please.
I don't even care so much for housing but housing--especially instanced, but even real world housing--is possible and is a fair desire. You want somewhere to show your trophies and even, kind of, a visual representation of where you're holding your 300 items. FFXI was also totally cool for a mannequin for each gender and race and you put a suit of armor on the rack. That was neat. Late in the game, after the third expansion, they made it possible for you to invite other players into your "Mog house" and it was very cool to show your friends what you had set up.
Guild housing should be available as well. A WoW forum poster had the awesome idea, in that game, that guild housing could be on airships flying far enough above or away from the main city so that there was time for their precious phasing technology to kick in basically instancing a block of atmosphere. While warship battles would be epic and awesome as a minigame, that wasn't even the chief reason for the desire.
Housing is one of the ways that MMOs can improve even if they insist on the same themepark funland. In the case of instanced housing, it only changes their game by a mere door they might possibly never enter (maybe they could have a toggle and just go talk to their main-gameworld NPC about the contents of their bank. It has no negative effect on casuals or raiders, and there's no logical reason we're not doing it.
As I said in the other thread in my first post there. I don't want a WoW-killer, but I want something to bite away enough of their sub base that they start caring again, their 4/1 patch notes announce some deformed implementation of a few things players have wanted over the years proving that they're just too big to care. They are an MMO monopoly and they demonstrate what can be terrible--and usually is--about a monopoly.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
Hmm, true there are some merits to housing, depending on the person. I was not trying to represent housing as something horribly stupid. I was trying to convey the realism Bill was writing about, the Sims style realism, whatever you call it, and not graphical realism.
Particularly about something Bill DIDn'T write.
Amen Brother.. lol,, i like that
Yeah...
No.
What we need is more realism. Plain and simple.
You know what the most popular online game of all time is? If you guessed WoW you guessed wrong. It's got less than a 1/5 as many users. Second Life? You're a lot closer... Give up? It's Farmville. And even that is way too unrealistic for most people.
A long time ago in a galaxy far far away video games were for kids and much like with children's literature the easiest way to make money was to churn out rehashed high fantasy and science fiction. Now the playerbase is growing up, games are becoming more a way of life, and yet game studios are still cranking out the same limited appeal fantasy and sci-fi they were 20 years ago. It's really kind of hard to believe.
You want to make a killing in the MMORPG world post WoW? Don't rip off Tolkien (coughTurbinecough) or Lucas (coughBiowarecough)... Rip off Harlequin.
TL;DR
Believe it or not most people don't want to be a wizard, an elf, a space marine, or ride a my little pony. They want to have nice things, go nice places, and in general be rich, attractive, and frequently screwing someone(/people) even more attractive than they are.
your funny i like you,,
Sherri 823 8-)
A vritual world is like our second world.. or another community wherein you are the one to set what you would like to be... and people will know you differently.../
Not totally on subject but I thought it would be worth the read -
http://www.news.com.au/technology/sorry-hollywood-your-computer-people-are-creepy/story-e6frfro0-1226033887177
relates to movies, however, it outlines how if the visuals become to life like it becomes creepy, rather then engaging.