It would be naive indeed to assume a company that size can make such a decision without proper consultation and analysis, the considerations much broader and far reaching than any one game on their books present or future. More likely that announcement was timed so as not to impede the marketing hype of an imminent title - DCUO was undoubtedly an element but at most only a modification of what was already on the cards - it may have been better it may have been worse we are not privy to that level of detail.
@TUX - As to my comment about exceeding initial expectations I base that on the simple evidence that, post release they had to double the number of available servers, it seems logical that they were not prepared for the initial influx and therefore the anticipated or forecast population was not as high as they actually got.
I agree, this was planned months ago. Actually heard rumors about it coming since February.
As to the assumption that more servers were needed to accomodate a major influx of players...I'm not so sure about that. There's no doubt SOE was ill prepared, but I thought SOE added them because of the screams about ques and wait times for instances upon release?!
Either way, you could be correct, but they only sold like 45k boxes the 1st week, double that # for the digital copies (per Smed) and that's only 90-100k...if that was "above expectations" I would be shocked.
I would not be surprised if there are multiple goals that have to be met in order for soe to retain the license. Even if those were not met right now I doubt the game could/would be taken away at this point. It wouldn't be in good faith to strip it this early. Again even if there were to happen.
However I don't think Warner Brothers gets to keep any of the games assets since SOE funded the creation of it.
I would not be surprised if there are multiple goals that have to be met in order for soe to retain the license. Even if those were not met right now I doubt the game could/would be taken away at this point. It wouldn't be in good faith to strip it this early. Again even if there were to happen.
However I don't think Warner Brothers gets to keep any of the games assets since SOE funded the creation of it.
They doubled the Eu servers, I cannot be certain of the increase on the US side but it was a sizeble proportionate increase. I wanted them to open all servers across the globe rather than increase the number of servers - EU times are usually depressed population points US side and vica versa so it made sense to even out the existing population across what existed rather than add more when a crash was inevitable.
Again I would suggest there is a large nomadic population of mmo players gravitatiing to every new release, they gush about how awesome the new game is as it is fresh, but soon start making demands it become more like XXX (usually WoW)....in game chatter and forum posts made it more than clear they really were not players DCUO was ever going to interest (indeed they seem to want WoW but are determined to hate on WoW - frustrated addicts unable to throw the habit I guess) .
I expect the population to boom and bust to greater and lesser extents till an equilibrium is found....the level of that equilibrium will be the only real measure of its relative success. SoE will do their usual switch to basic life support at some point and for those of us still enjoying the game we just have to hope its after enough updates to properly flesh out the game - as a fan that might sound negative but tbh it is how I see all new mmo's going - more titles with too little genuine variety or individuality, DCUO is more distinct than most but its still only relative to the small deviances across the genre.
The ps3 side of the game is the dark matter of this issue, it may have greater influence and sway to change any of our assertions at the end of the day.
No, Time Warner wont take DCUO off SOE and hand it over to Turbine unless they are willing to face a massive foot bill on buying back the rights from SOE.
Which wouldnt ever happen, because even if DCUO fails (sooner or later) it would be a grease stain on SOE's resume. If Warners buy back DCUO after paying out whatever ridiculous amount of $ SOE quotes for their dying game, there is absolutely no guarentee that DCUO will get a second wind and the game will do a full rebound and start bringing in profits.
It would mean that Warner will have to firstly prepare a large capital to pay off SOE's rights, here they will get absolutely no returns or any safeguards and only stand to lose if they fail. Then they would have to gather resources for creating a team from Turbine to take over DCUO, this part of their investment would bring them returns but would also mean that Turbine would have to remove devs from their established titles to put onto the DCUO dev team or run the team with greenhorn rookies and risk killing DCUO for the 2nd time. And lastly they would have to gamble funds on advertising on a second launch in a market where you are Rarely, with a capital "R", given a second chance by the gamer who has been burned and has lost his faith in your game.
Its easier (and cost wise, much wiser) for Warner to drop DCUO and have Turbine focus on better things or maybe pick up DCUO-remade in another title in the late future when the SOE fiasco has died down.
All that said, I doubt SOE will ever stop learning on how to kill a game. The more they create, the more they kill. Its just mind boggling!
So the game went from being SOE's biggest selling MMO ever to life support in a couple months?
Seriously !?
...it out sold EQ 1&2 & SWG !? ...i dont belive that... source plz?
Also interested in where that came from . I've seen neither hype nor data that's ever indicated it was even going to do well, let alone turn out to be SOE's biggest selling MMIO.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
So the game went from being SOE's biggest selling MMO ever to life support in a couple months?
Seriously !?
...it out sold EQ 1&2 & SWG !? ...i dont belive that... source plz?
Also interested in where that came from . I've seen neither hype nor data that's ever indicated it was even going to do well, let alone turn out to be SOE's biggest selling MMIO.
You'll find no source because it was NEVER said. As daffid pointed out above, Smed chose his words carfully...he said "fastest selling"...not "best" or "biggest".
DCUO doesn't really need to leave SOE's hands. It just needs to get away from Chris Cao. EQ2 and SWG both improved after he left those games. But I'd be happy to see it under Turbine.
Its very hard to get a license back without both parties agreeing to the transfer while the license is in use. This is why you see Fox pumping out Marvel movies so quickly. There are rumors that Disney can take back the Marvel licensed characters if they are not used roughly every 2 years. I really believe that's why DCUO was pushed out in such a hacked state. WB could have been posturing to get the license back because of the continued core gameplay development changes by SOE.
Now the interesting thing is...the PS3 population is starting to drop. I don't think DCUO will add additional powers(Light) till after the GL movie b/c of the movie/game tie in. So I don't see this game as growing in population anytime soon. If the numbers do continue to drop, WB could try to get back the IP and SOE would probably release it but I doubt it.
BTW, the recent IGN movie podcast said that WB is running late on the GL movie and will working up to the last minute. The CG done for the movie on the first pass was so bad they had to start over on a lot of scenes. I saw the game tie in and it looks worse than the Aquaman game released on the PS2. I'm thinking this will be a bad year for DC overall.
It's the natural ebb and flow of population on an MMO.
Release time, everyone goes nuts saying the servers are over-loaded (they were)...
new servers are added so the population spreads out a bit...
a month later, many players don't sub to the game (this is normal) so the population dips...
the main servers remain active despite the population drop...
an update is released and a bunch of people re-sub out of curiosity...
the game has new unanticipated bugs that turn off some people who quit playing again a few weeks later...
another update is released, or perhaps a small expansion, and players return...
...and it continues. This is the normal pattern of any relatively successful MMO.
I know it's anecdotal, but on the PS3 main PVP servers (TKJ and No Man's Land) the populations are very healthy. I'm sure that as long as you roll on one of the main servers, you could enjoy this game for quite some time with healthy populations.
Boy nothing would personally make me happier... If they can't even pretend to know how to make an Actual MMORPG the least they could do is hand it to a studio with real experience in Plots and Dialog so it atleast gets better Solo stories.
Lol you want to give it to turbine so they can give it the lotro/ddo format of free to play no thanks. I have no faith in tubrine any more. Greedy mony bags who don't know how to code anything.
Long answer: Time Warner could revoke the license if SOE seriously misrepersented the licensed properties or tried to cut a third party deal outside Time Warners involvement. Basically if they did anything outside the licensing agreement which is quite specific in these issues, (for instance Wonder Woman's new costume will not feature in DCU because that isn't agreed under their licensing agreement, nor the Dick Grayson as Batman angle). As I understand it Time Warner are relatively happy with the end product of DCU so I don't think they'll be any issues with that soon, (although I'm sure they'd like it to be retaing more subs:P).
I'm now fully convinced jSmedley hates everyone and himself. Common sense is , just focus on your top products and keep them fresh. don't make so many MMOs that you sink yourself and your COM trying to get a hit. The problem is he owns this company, thats why people at sony can't say "your fired' because he owns most of it. eatzz heeezzz.....
Focus on DCUO SWG EQ stop making games and stop making players hate you. do some PR work to repair the SWG rift that was the thing that got them were they are now. Re-launch SWG "an empire divided" (You will stomp TOR if you do this) cancel all attempts at NGE development. Focus on DCUO leave EQ/EQ2 alone . sell vanguard to another company so that players can have some hope.
Make your community feel like they are a part of the community again. smed! Stop and focus downsize and focus. Focus on the three main titles and stop the wasteful spending and make these games solid and fresh. ride it out and you might be remembered as the come back kid instead of the redheaded step child.
I'm now fully convinced jSmedley hates everyone and himself. Common sense is , just focus on your top products and keep them fresh. don't make so many MMOs that you sink yourself and your COM trying to get a hit. The problem is he owns this company, thats why people at sony can't say "your fired' because he owns most of it. eatzz heeezzz.....
Focus on DCUO SWG EQ stop making games and stop making players hate you. do some PR work to repair the SWG rift that was the thing that got them were they are now. Re-launch SWG "an empire divided" (You will stomp TOR if you do this) cancel all attempts at NGE development. Focus on DCUO leave EQ/EQ2 alone . sell vanguard to another company so that players can have some hope.
Make your community feel like they are a part of the community again. smed! Stop and focus downsize and focus. Focus on the three main titles and stop the wasteful spending and make these games solid and fresh. ride it out and you might be remembered as the come back kid instead of the redheaded step child.
Very nicely said and I completely agree with every word of it.
But it will NEVER HAPPEN! SOE does NOT CARE about any of it's current customers...they're ONLY concerned about the people that AREN'T playing their games. All the current customers are good for is footing the bill for the next MMO that might crush WoW.
DCUO doesn't really need to leave SOE's hands. It just needs to get away from Chris Cao. EQ2 and SWG both improved after he left those games. But I'd be happy to see it under Turbine.
There is a lot of truth to this. Chris Cao is just too inflexible and it hurts the initial reputation of games he works on. Everquest II, has done nothing but got better. Scott Hartsman did wonderful things with that game. I think though getting DCUO out of SOE would at least give it some chance with those who have washed their hands with SOE. It's dream for sure, but stranger things have happened.
DCUO doesn't really need to leave SOE's hands. It just needs to get away from Chris Cao. EQ2 and SWG both improved after he left those games. But I'd be happy to see it under Turbine.
There is a lot of truth to this. Chris Cao is just too inflexible and it hurts the initial reputation of games he works on. Everquest II, has done nothing but got better. Scott Hartsman did wonderful things with that game. I think though getting DCUO out of SOE would at least give it some chance with those who have washed their hands with SOE. It's dream for sure, but stranger things have happened.
I agree that getting Chris Cao out of the game would be a step in the right direction, but the problem is who would soe replace him with? It isn't like soe has an wealth of developers with solid development track records, let alone experience in turning around troubled games. The team that made DCU was their very best.
While it would be nice to see what another company might be able to do, I'm not sure who would be able to turn the game around either. The games problems run very deep and would require a rather large overhaul to resolve. It would probably be easier to start over only keeping the art assets.
DCUO doesn't really need to leave SOE's hands. It just needs to get away from Chris Cao. EQ2 and SWG both improved after he left those games. But I'd be happy to see it under Turbine.
There is a lot of truth to this. Chris Cao is just too inflexible and it hurts the initial reputation of games he works on. Everquest II, has done nothing but got better. Scott Hartsman did wonderful things with that game. I think though getting DCUO out of SOE would at least give it some chance with those who have washed their hands with SOE. It's dream for sure, but stranger things have happened.
I agree that getting Chris Cao out of the game would be a step in the right direction, but the problem is who would soe replace him with? It isn't like soe has an wealth of developers with solid development track records, let alone experience in turning around troubled games. The team that made DCU was their very best.
While it would be nice to see what another company might be able to do, I'm not sure who would be able to turn the game around either. The games problems run very deep and would require a rather large overhaul to resolve. It would probably be easier to start over only keeping the art assets.
I agree with you, but I don't think a big name with a lot of experience would help a great deal. A developer without the hubris who is willing to listen would do wonders.
Comments
I agree, this was planned months ago. Actually heard rumors about it coming since February.
As to the assumption that more servers were needed to accomodate a major influx of players...I'm not so sure about that. There's no doubt SOE was ill prepared, but I thought SOE added them because of the screams about ques and wait times for instances upon release?!
Either way, you could be correct, but they only sold like 45k boxes the 1st week, double that # for the digital copies (per Smed) and that's only 90-100k...if that was "above expectations" I would be shocked.
I think the number of new servers added totaled 4, but I could be wrong. Don't think they doubled the number of release servers though.
@OP
I would not be surprised if there are multiple goals that have to be met in order for soe to retain the license. Even if those were not met right now I doubt the game could/would be taken away at this point. It wouldn't be in good faith to strip it this early. Again even if there were to happen.
However I don't think Warner Brothers gets to keep any of the games assets since SOE funded the creation of it.
They doubled the Eu servers, I cannot be certain of the increase on the US side but it was a sizeble proportionate increase. I wanted them to open all servers across the globe rather than increase the number of servers - EU times are usually depressed population points US side and vica versa so it made sense to even out the existing population across what existed rather than add more when a crash was inevitable.
Again I would suggest there is a large nomadic population of mmo players gravitatiing to every new release, they gush about how awesome the new game is as it is fresh, but soon start making demands it become more like XXX (usually WoW)....in game chatter and forum posts made it more than clear they really were not players DCUO was ever going to interest (indeed they seem to want WoW but are determined to hate on WoW - frustrated addicts unable to throw the habit I guess) .
I expect the population to boom and bust to greater and lesser extents till an equilibrium is found....the level of that equilibrium will be the only real measure of its relative success. SoE will do their usual switch to basic life support at some point and for those of us still enjoying the game we just have to hope its after enough updates to properly flesh out the game - as a fan that might sound negative but tbh it is how I see all new mmo's going - more titles with too little genuine variety or individuality, DCUO is more distinct than most but its still only relative to the small deviances across the genre.
The ps3 side of the game is the dark matter of this issue, it may have greater influence and sway to change any of our assertions at the end of the day.
No, Time Warner wont take DCUO off SOE and hand it over to Turbine unless they are willing to face a massive foot bill on buying back the rights from SOE.
Which wouldnt ever happen, because even if DCUO fails (sooner or later) it would be a grease stain on SOE's resume. If Warners buy back DCUO after paying out whatever ridiculous amount of $ SOE quotes for their dying game, there is absolutely no guarentee that DCUO will get a second wind and the game will do a full rebound and start bringing in profits.
It would mean that Warner will have to firstly prepare a large capital to pay off SOE's rights, here they will get absolutely no returns or any safeguards and only stand to lose if they fail. Then they would have to gather resources for creating a team from Turbine to take over DCUO, this part of their investment would bring them returns but would also mean that Turbine would have to remove devs from their established titles to put onto the DCUO dev team or run the team with greenhorn rookies and risk killing DCUO for the 2nd time. And lastly they would have to gamble funds on advertising on a second launch in a market where you are Rarely, with a capital "R", given a second chance by the gamer who has been burned and has lost his faith in your game.
Its easier (and cost wise, much wiser) for Warner to drop DCUO and have Turbine focus on better things or maybe pick up DCUO-remade in another title in the late future when the SOE fiasco has died down.
All that said, I doubt SOE will ever stop learning on how to kill a game. The more they create, the more they kill. Its just mind boggling!
Also interested in where that came from . I've seen neither hype nor data that's ever indicated it was even going to do well, let alone turn out to be SOE's biggest selling MMIO.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
You'll find no source because it was NEVER said. As daffid pointed out above, Smed chose his words carfully...he said "fastest selling"...not "best" or "biggest".
turbine would just turn it into another f2p
DCUO doesn't really need to leave SOE's hands. It just needs to get away from Chris Cao. EQ2 and SWG both improved after he left those games. But I'd be happy to see it under Turbine.
Its very hard to get a license back without both parties agreeing to the transfer while the license is in use. This is why you see Fox pumping out Marvel movies so quickly. There are rumors that Disney can take back the Marvel licensed characters if they are not used roughly every 2 years. I really believe that's why DCUO was pushed out in such a hacked state. WB could have been posturing to get the license back because of the continued core gameplay development changes by SOE.
Now the interesting thing is...the PS3 population is starting to drop. I don't think DCUO will add additional powers(Light) till after the GL movie b/c of the movie/game tie in. So I don't see this game as growing in population anytime soon. If the numbers do continue to drop, WB could try to get back the IP and SOE would probably release it but I doubt it.
BTW, the recent IGN movie podcast said that WB is running late on the GL movie and will working up to the last minute. The CG done for the movie on the first pass was so bad they had to start over on a lot of scenes. I saw the game tie in and it looks worse than the Aquaman game released on the PS2. I'm thinking this will be a bad year for DC overall.
It's the natural ebb and flow of population on an MMO.
Release time, everyone goes nuts saying the servers are over-loaded (they were)...
new servers are added so the population spreads out a bit...
a month later, many players don't sub to the game (this is normal) so the population dips...
the main servers remain active despite the population drop...
an update is released and a bunch of people re-sub out of curiosity...
the game has new unanticipated bugs that turn off some people who quit playing again a few weeks later...
another update is released, or perhaps a small expansion, and players return...
...and it continues. This is the normal pattern of any relatively successful MMO.
I know it's anecdotal, but on the PS3 main PVP servers (TKJ and No Man's Land) the populations are very healthy. I'm sure that as long as you roll on one of the main servers, you could enjoy this game for quite some time with healthy populations.
Boy nothing would personally make me happier... If they can't even pretend to know how to make an Actual MMORPG the least they could do is hand it to a studio with real experience in Plots and Dialog so it atleast gets better Solo stories.
Lol you want to give it to turbine so they can give it the lotro/ddo format of free to play no thanks. I have no faith in tubrine any more. Greedy mony bags who don't know how to code anything.
Short answer: No
Long answer: Time Warner could revoke the license if SOE seriously misrepersented the licensed properties or tried to cut a third party deal outside Time Warners involvement. Basically if they did anything outside the licensing agreement which is quite specific in these issues, (for instance Wonder Woman's new costume will not feature in DCU because that isn't agreed under their licensing agreement, nor the Dick Grayson as Batman angle). As I understand it Time Warner are relatively happy with the end product of DCU so I don't think they'll be any issues with that soon, (although I'm sure they'd like it to be retaing more subs:P).
The OP presents a wonderful thought. Moving DCUO to a studio that will nurture it properly. One could only hope.
I'm now fully convinced jSmedley hates everyone and himself. Common sense is , just focus on your top products and keep them fresh. don't make so many MMOs that you sink yourself and your COM trying to get a hit. The problem is he owns this company, thats why people at sony can't say "your fired' because he owns most of it. eatzz heeezzz.....
Focus on DCUO SWG EQ stop making games and stop making players hate you. do some PR work to repair the SWG rift that was the thing that got them were they are now. Re-launch SWG "an empire divided" (You will stomp TOR if you do this) cancel all attempts at NGE development. Focus on DCUO leave EQ/EQ2 alone . sell vanguard to another company so that players can have some hope.
Make your community feel like they are a part of the community again. smed! Stop and focus downsize and focus. Focus on the three main titles and stop the wasteful spending and make these games solid and fresh. ride it out and you might be remembered as the come back kid instead of the redheaded step child.
Very nicely said and I completely agree with every word of it.
But it will NEVER HAPPEN! SOE does NOT CARE about any of it's current customers...they're ONLY concerned about the people that AREN'T playing their games. All the current customers are good for is footing the bill for the next MMO that might crush WoW.
There is a lot of truth to this. Chris Cao is just too inflexible and it hurts the initial reputation of games he works on. Everquest II, has done nothing but got better. Scott Hartsman did wonderful things with that game. I think though getting DCUO out of SOE would at least give it some chance with those who have washed their hands with SOE. It's dream for sure, but stranger things have happened.
I agree that getting Chris Cao out of the game would be a step in the right direction, but the problem is who would soe replace him with? It isn't like soe has an wealth of developers with solid development track records, let alone experience in turning around troubled games. The team that made DCU was their very best.
While it would be nice to see what another company might be able to do, I'm not sure who would be able to turn the game around either. The games problems run very deep and would require a rather large overhaul to resolve. It would probably be easier to start over only keeping the art assets.
I agree with you, but I don't think a big name with a lot of experience would help a great deal. A developer without the hubris who is willing to listen would do wonders.