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Project Entropia: Q&A With Marco Behrmann
Dana
Member Posts: 2,415
Our own Richard Duffek had a chance to quiz Marco Behrmann of MindArk, the makers of Project Entropia, about the game's progress and his take on many hot button issues in the industry.
| MMORPG.com: | Recently Sony Online Entertainment announced the inception of their new Station Exchange program where players could buy and sell ingame items for real world cash. Seeing as PE has done this from the beginning how do you feel about a company such as SOE who has always been so adamantly against said actions reversing their stance and embracing it? |
| Marco Behrmann: | It was to be expected. When I was at E3 last year representatives from Sony approached me about the concept of Project Entropia. When they understood our unique idea they were baffled. Then they realized that this is the way of the future. I see the Station Exchange as a very small move towards the concept Project Entropia already have proved working, and based on the all the spies from the other big MMOG-developers who lurk in Project Entropia, Id say this is only the beginning in a few years time, the subscription business model will be a minority. |
You can read the full article here.
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Comments
Other games have characters that start with basic Martial Arts skills if they don't start with a weapon. If they include Martial Arts for their beginning players, so should Project Entropia.
Hasn't MindArk even heard of Martial Arts?
Warning: I could be on NoDoz caffeine pills so I hope I don't post anything outrageous!
I dedicate this song to The Matrix Online & Asheron's Call 2 -- the games I hoped to play someday but had bit the dust before their prime.
If they really turn so much money (do they? 59M this year alone? 100.000 people investing $100 on average a month doesn't even bring that much in 4 months. And I don't even believe 100.000 people play PE. Either they lie to attract people or they have some real crazy spenders that spend so much) they should afford a good dev team an make the game better. Game feels very outdated, graphics is poor, performance is poor, lag in cities where there are more people at the same time is unbearable, user interface is horrible ...
Also game has no content. There are no quests, nothing. Quite understandable. Why would there be quests with rewards? They don't want to give away money. There is no xp as character progress is skill based so no need for xp rewards either. All you can do is go out and shoot various creatures by using guns and ammo that cost real money. And of course (very much like real casino) you spend more on ammo and repairs then you get back by looting. They give occasional big winnings away (again just as in a real casino) and even display those so that everyone can see that there is a chance to get good loot.
I can undestand how some people can get hooked though. Gamblers should love it
This is not future of mmorpgs. I don't want mmorpgs to turn into casinos.
I agree with most thigns you say, but i don't think he is lying about the $$turnoever, keep in mind he is not implying the company made 59mill in 4months, that is just how much money was moving in and out of PE at the time.
The only problem I have with PE is that the devs refuse to add a quest system. I guess they are afraid it could disrupt their economy. Which I understand, but its still a downer. Oh, and why no PE section on mmorpg.com?
Great concept here but i dont think it will ever fly.
The bottom line here is these are just games.Do the math and 15 bucks a month is about 50 cents a day.This is completly affordable,even for a kid cutting lawns in the summer.If i invest 15 dollars in PE its 30 PED'S but it converts back to 15 dollars and thats it.
Next thing ya know Century 21 or any real estate firm gets involved and they get their 7% cut on top of everything else.I believe that if most games went to this business model it would kill the entire genre.
Why should we pay for every single item to advance our characters when we havent really had to do so in the last 10 years?
I just dont think the general public would be convinced this is a good idea at all.It does look as though the "pay to play" concept is going to be taken to the next level.Thats too bad because i am more concerned about my retirement and saving money than i am about playing a game where i would have to invest real money to play it beyond 15 bucks a month.
Want to ENJOY an mmo?
Dont start a guild and dont be a leader or volunteer to be coleader or captain.
Just play the damn game:)
Martial Arts is a triggered skill in Project Entropia, meaning that you have a number of other skills to trigger this one.
But it's true in Project Entropia you start with absolutely nothing except for some basic clothes. This however doesn't mean you can't do anything!
There are a couple things that newbies can do when they join the game, they can deposit and do whatever they wanna do, or they can try to gather some money without depositing, this is done by sweat gathering, fruit or dung finding, or try your luck at the oilrig. You won't get rich by doing those things but it'll give you enough money to get started and to find out what Project Entropia is really like.
I don't think there ever will be a quest system in PE, and I think that's good, it's a virtual universe after all, this is one of the things that makes this game different from the 1001 quest like games.
Instead of quest there are player organised events (Fashion shows, melee combat contests, capture the mansion, ...) and sometimes city's all of the sudden get attacked by robot forces. At the moment there is a competition running organised by creators, it's a home decoration contest, the ones with the most beautifull homes win! The price is a full set of a new high end armor (Supremacy armor), it'll be the first full set excisting of that armor!
The big advantage of this system is that it's 100% up to you how much you wanna deposit, their or people that limit the amount they deposit to 10$/month, their or people that deposit 100$/week.
It's totally up to you! (15 dollar=150ped btw not 30
). You can still play even if you haven't deposited the last months.
Offcourse it's an entirely new system, but I think it's a better one. I gives you the opportunity to be free, you can do what you want! You don't get forced to do "boring" quests, you don't get forced to deposit.
It's all up to you.
To get back toDiletti's post: The first things you say is that there aren't 100,000 players in PE. Very true, but what Mindark says is that they have 100,000 REGISTERED users. Their not saying that they have that many people playing, they ar just saying tha, that many people have registred. PE might have a little less than 10,000people playing in it. It is up to you to decide if you want to deposit or not. Some people don'teven deposit in the game and come out with 100s of dollars when they stop playing or take a break. Personally, i have seen people invest maybe $1000 in PE and they have come out with 12,000. I am amazed with many of the stories that i see and hear daily when i play PE. All you need to do is invest maybe $20-30 and you are set for several months in PE.
It is definitelyup to all of you you, but you are missing out on a good game.
PE being a casino is not even close to the truth.. I have played PE for over 2 years and I can tell you that there is no such thing as luck in this game, it's just like in sports for example.. the best team wins. and this game is not a game where you just go out and buy ammo and kill something (just like in any other game). This game is about increasing your avatar skills, get rl experience about it, meet good friends, get a nice appartment or house and decorate it, attend at special events, try to claim a land and get fee from hunters and miners in the area + other things I prolly forgot to mention... and as you can see this game has plenty times more things to offer than other games.. and from what I can see on your post.. you haven't played PE for much more than a week :P Another great thing with PE is that it constantly is evolving.. meaning new stuff, places things, skills etc. are introduced almost every month and therefore you might not get bored with it
I know that PE is the game of the future and will live forever
Well I played it for a few months and put a total of about $30 just to buy a starter weapon etc. I got bummed out by the fact that I never seemed to earn enough to cover my item decomposition so i always seemed to be slipping behind (which I guess is the whole idea).
My real question is whats going to happen if this game tanks financially ? What happens to the folks who have put in hundreds or thousands of dollars on items and real estate only to see it go "poof". ??
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
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"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
My wife and I played the game for nearly a year - and sunk quite a bit of money into it. Marco and the rest of MA need to get their heads out of their heinies and pay attention to the important things in the game. Currenly they have a high turnover with the game simply because it's glorified gambling. The long time users are still playing simply because they've invested so much time and energy into it - they feel trapped. A very few people have actually made a profit, and those stick around because it *is* a fun game.
If the game tanks? Read the License Agreement - players are entitled to the amount of money that they've deposited, no more - and there are plenty of legal loopholes to prevent you from even getting that. Many players that have tried to withdraw their money have had to wait well more than 6 months before getting it - some more than a year.
Every patch that's released destroys a little bit more of what people like about the game without adding much at all. Content updates are rare and superficial. The only aspect of the game that's guarenteed to keep you ingame and with money is resale - which means prices ingame go up. In a typical MMO that's not a big deal, in PE every pec (1/10th of a cent) counts - and counts big.
I think the idea is workable - I just don't think MA is very interested in making it so.
I have been playing PE for roughly 1.5 years and I can only say one thing.
Stay away from it! It has even worse return rate than a casino, and also the customers never know what to expect. When you enter a casino you know what you are getting into, you don't with PE.
For every update they release, the game gets more and more expensive. And they also promise a lot of content that never succeeds to deliver what was promised.
I can take many examples of how they profit on the costs of players by changing or implementing new "features" :
*They decreased the running speed of players, forcing them to take more hits from monsters and wearing more armor. This causes the armors to decay and give MA (MindArk) more money.
(Note : MindArk takes away money from the "bank" based on the items decay. That's where they profit.) Their excuse for this was to "decrease the lag for the players". I noticed no difference at all.
Edit2: They have on multiple occasions increased dmg and speed of enemies too.
*They switched the loot system from loots everytime to loots every now and then, claiming the loots to be higher once you got them. This didn't work and you can make horrible losses now if you are unlucky. And being unlucky in PE is the majority of players. Also the items in the loots has decreased more and more since this system was introduced, leading me and many others to suspect that this system was introduced to make the hunting more and more expensive without the players noticing.
One of the side effects is that the items that were rare before now is almost extinct and their market prices has skyrocketed. (Meaning more money for MA since players need to deposit more.)
Also stackable items like tailoring materials and paints has become very very rare lately. Especially skins used to apply different textures to clothing.
*Newer armors and weapons have higher decay compared to the older ones. When a business grows it has to make it cheaper for it's customers. MA on the other hand makes it more and more expensive, which could be a sign of either greed or bad economy. Either way, nothing good for a company who wants happy customers. And this makes PE an unsafe bet to place your money in.
*Skill system. The skills are some of the most important factors when it comes to profit from the main activities. Hunting, mining and crafting. The last VU (Version Update) introduced a new skill system. The old system had the same build as the one in Morrowind. Meaning that if you used low end items (weapons mostly) you got more skills but did less damage. And also meant relatively cheap skills.
There also were barriers where your skills came to crawls, but once you had passed that barrier, the skills started to boost faster until the next slowdown cap. Also, you could gain skills by constantly hunting small mobs (monsters) with low-end guns.
Now, with the new system, the players are forced to use guns and first aid packs, mining equipment etc, with as high decay and dmg as possible. And also the skill slowdowns has been moved further, so a new player reaches around level 3000 in a skill with ease (and get hooked), but after this it is more or less impossible to reach higher ranks. With the old system, it was easy to reach 9k in a skill, although it took a lot of time. Now you simply can't reach level 9k in a skill if you are not willing to hunt minimum 6 hours a day with the most expensive guns/armors/FAPs (FAP = Fast Aid Pack). And when I say "most expensive equipment, I am talking about items in a total of around 20.000$. Even so, you need around 20 years to reach there, compared to the 3 years before. And with more expense. Much more. And what's even worse, you don't gain experience, or very little of it, on enemies that are low leveled, meaning you MUST hunt the monsters that require expensive gear to hunt. Basically, the skilling is gone, and so is the addiction level.
Crafting was made impossible since you got no skills in the crafting of lowend items, and since you need skills to craft high-end items, you are stuck. Meaning that the miners has noone to sell the minerals to.
*The radar was recently changed. In the same VU as the skill system actually. Now you only see smaller enemies once they are closer to you. Smaller enemies are enemies that kill you in two bites, sometimes one, or more. So this meant that miners had to bring ammo to prevent being killed totally because of invisible enemies. Not only that, but they have also increased the amount of monsters so much that they start disappearing on the radar because there are too many red dots on it for the game to handle. Needless to say, this means much more decay for the hunters and the miners can't mine at all without wasting tons of PEDs (Project Entropia Dollars) on ammo. Which in turn has horrible returns to the player.
*Sweat Gathering is a specific part of the game that is there to get you hooked. "What is sweat?" you say? Well, sweat is exactly what it sounds like. When you are a newbie you can gather this from animals and mix it with a mineral you mine up from the ground to get what can be compared to mana in other games. Fuel for mindforce chips. Now, this ability only exists until you reach a level around 110 or get high skills in other areas. Then suddenly one day when you log in, your ability to gather sweat is lost. No skill in the entire game has a cap, meaning you can get infinite levels on them, except from this one. You can sweat some animals and get enough to get a taste of PE. Then you are disabled and have to deposit money, or do it the hard way by collecting fruits, visiting an oilrig in a PvP zone, trading (which is hard without funds) or some other boring and timeconsuming activity. And no, MA would never go bankrupt from people gathering sweat. You get 1-5 bottles every time you succeed and it takes 5-6 tries to succeed normally. Each bottle is worth around 2 pec in MARKET VALUE. But the TT value (which is what the economy is based on, and means the actual worth of an item if you send it to a trade terminal, not getting the money directly from a player) is just 1 pec / 500 bottles. To Gain even 10 ped (1$) you would need 500.000 bottles. And each try takes around 15 seconds. Now figure, would it be possible to make MA bankrupt by sweating? No. This has to be a way for MA to get you hooked, because they simply can't lose anything on removing the cap from the skill.
*They take away possiblilites to earn money all the time. People in the old skill system, who had bought first aid packs that healed you to full health (if you had newbie health) for 7.000$, could stand and skill evade all the time and sell it on skill implants to transfer it to other players for a profit. With the latest skill system, this is impossible for them, so that is 7.000$ down the drain.
There are player-owned areas on the second continent in the game (there are totally three if you count a space station as a continent), in where the players from 7.3 (last patch was v7.4) had the ability to start breeding animals for a pretty hefty sum, to lure visitors there and gain money on the taxes. In the latest patch, those also got tricked by MA who implemented tons of mobs on the normal continent, making the "Landgrab Areas", as they are called, useless. And if you don't breed the mobs? Well, then the area will become a barren wasteland with much fewer enemies. So either you pay much to get enemies that people won't hunt because there are plenty on the normal continent, or you pay nothing, and get only a handful of enemies in the area. I must mention however that only animals are affected by this, and mutants and robot spawns are still the same. But only people with top notch gear can hunt those anyway.
People could hunt bigger enemies by trapping them in i.e. rock formations or by using decoy items to get these enemies to attack those instead. Lately they also changed the decoys so once an enemy attacks it, it will start attackign you again if you shoot it. Before this, enemies stayed on the decoy allowing you to hunt them while they were messing with it. Another way to reduce profit or chances to break even. As for the trapping, instead of making the enemies smarter and walk aroudn the objects, MA made it so they become invisible if they stay trapped too long (around 10 secs). This also applies to enemies who walk into other enemies. Meaning that you can have a train of invincible enemies after you, which you are unable to kill.
Top end items like Shadow Armor, Nemesis Armor, Mod FAP and the likes hardly drop at all. The items were good, and if you looted one you could count on profit. MA reduced all the items as mentioned above, rendering you out of chance to profit by hunting, or breaking even. Only if you are extremely lucky, you might get one of those items, but compared to the old days, these items are much less than 10x as rare. Maybe less than 30x even. This causes inflation by a big degree where armors with 6$ TT value (see Trade Terminal above in sweating comment) now are worth 700$. And the people who suffers from this are the newbies and the middle-leveled players who today has no chance of getting them. Unless they want to spend sums like the ones above.
Edit:
*Forgot to mention how they implemented a worthless enmatter (one of the two mining types) used for animal taming which hasn't been implemented yet, even though it's been there for 6-7 months. Of course to disable miners from profiting too much. No market value on it. Same with the fruits you gather to mix it with. They can't be used yet either.
MA also lies and avoids the truth constantly. For example there are storages in where to store items. It sats clearly in the storage menu that you can store up to 500 items there. However after storing 200+ your items start going invisible so you must buy a house or an apartment, or storage boxes instead. Which all cost money. So that's 300 items less than what you are promised from the storage itself.
MindArk doesn't even have an official forum for PE for people to discuss. They solely rely on support cases, fan sites and IRC.
Also I find some of the quotes from Marco to be pure lies or avoiding of the truth :
*Note: I will have my own reflections over the comments too, as an experienced PE player*
Marco : A unique aspect of Project Entropia is that a player may elect to transfer PED back into real life currency...
Truth : Withdrawal is said to take up to 3 months, but there are cases where 6 months or even 9 has passed without money getting transferred to RL cash. The only way to get the money in a reasonable time is to sell to other players via auctions or bank transfers etc. No money leaves the game this way.
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Marco : We have the position that the players of Project Entropia are free to use the system as they see fit...
Truth : Yes, it is true, but they constantly change the system to prevent people from profiting. Like a cat and mouse game.
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Marco : After all, they (the players) are the ones playing Project Entropia and who invest money and time into it, so why should we impose strange rules onto them?
Truth : They don't. They impose drastical changes onto them instead. Like the ones mentioned above.
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Marco : we are turning a nice profit and have an extreme growth rate....
Truth : They certainly profit since they use above mentioned methods. But the growth rate is not extreme at all. With every patch new people comes and goes. Yes, more accounts in total, but many of them are double accounts or more due to sweating caps etc. Also older players leave when MA make bad updates to the games so I would say that the player base is still about as big as ever. Maybe slightly bigger but extremely? Now way. Especially not since the last update.
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Marco : We are very reluctant to change the stats for any item in the virtual universe, as such measures would bring instability to the ingame market, which is just plain bad. We are a business and our main priority is to have pleased customers for the long haul. Anything else is just plain stupid.
Truth : They don't change items. That's true. But they change the systems and worlds around them so that market value is affected. The skill system for example greatly lowered values on the best FAPs in-game, and also minerals has gotten much cheaper now due to the low amount of crafters. So, if they can't change the items, they change the world around them. Simple way to be dishonest without lying.
The fact that they want to have pleased customers is a joke. People complained about loot system, experience system, radar changes, running speeds and whatnot. And their way of dealing with the problem is simply to answer arrogantly in Support Cases (which takes between 3 - 30 days or more depending on your luck) about "the game supposed to be that way" and "thank you for reporting, we will investigate". They don't lift a finger to change it back or tweak it though. The bad loot system has been around for 8 months and it still works horrible. And nope, they haven't changed it back. Now they change the skill system in the same manner. Do they think we are moneywielding zombies with the only intention to spend our hard earned cash as fast as possible? I certainly don't get it either way... No business sense perhaps...
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Marco : A small company with a lot of debt may not be the smartest option to throw money at, risk-wise. MindArk is the only company today that is making a profit and has history to prove our case.
Truth : MindArk is a small company that had a lot of debt. They even went bankrupt once. That is the history to prove their cause?
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Marco : Actually, round two of the land grab is in progress right now, so everyone can join the event. Id say it is much easier to get a foothold in Project Entropia today compared to one year ago, as the system is much more streamlined, there are a lot more activities to take part in, and there are system in place that allows for an easier experience overall.
Truth : Landgrab are for people with cash. And lots of it. If you don't own 500$ weapons, 4000$ armors and 7000$ first aids, you are out. Maybe if you are enough people to make the game lag down for everyone else it might work, but that can't be how the game is supposed to be played? Yes, there are a lot more activities to take part in, but all are expensive. If you don't count in fruit/dung gathering, but that one is really really slow. And comparing PE now from earlier, it was way easier to get a foothold back then, since you could get good stuff on a much more common basis from hunting, which is the main activity in PE. Nowadays you must have to rely on your wallet much more.
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Marco : we have ideas printed down to last us for at least a decade...
Truth (?): From experience, I can say that most of these will only be additional expenses. I am just guessing of course, but judging from past decicions and features, it's inevitable. That is true, cause PE has a potential, but MA doesn't allow it to use it.
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Marco : Project Entropia is here to stay, and we strive to have the best quality, the largest and the most entertaining virtual universe available to everybody connected to the Internet. In maybe ten years time we want to be able to present a virtual world superior to the real one.
Truth : In the current rate it won't stay that long. Mishappy people count increases all the time. MA doesn't listen to the players. They listen to their wallets and bank accounts. This is a good vision he has over there but it's not gonna work unless something is done about their greed. When he says "strive to have the best quality" I am uncertain to what he means. They constantly keep making PE more boring and expensive, not by just adding new things, but by changing things that already works. There is a saying "If it's not broken, don't fix it!". They can't have heard of that one?
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Marco : we respect the player...
Truth : Comment unneccessary.
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MMORPG.com: Any time real money is involved the threat of scammers and such increases. Why should a new player feel safe in Project Entropia? Can you give someone who may be considering trying out the game for the first time some hints on what to avoid?
Marco : Bla bla responsibility...
Truth : PE is overflowing with scammers. It takes a lot of time to get these people banned compared to other games, and once they a re, you don't get the money you were scammed on back. I have never been scammed, but there are people who has been. And even people who had to pay to get unlocked because if scammers using stolen credit cards. They had to pay for MAs mistake basically.
As a side note, people who deposit big amounts are allowed to scam and harass people more than others. People who, for example stands in a PvP zone and keeps killing people who revives aren't even bothered to get locked by support. At least if they deposit much. Support has a tendency to overlook things if it's a well paying participant that has commited the "crime". That policy stinks.
So my final words : If you can stand a company driven on profit rather than happy players, if you can stand a company that desperately tries to ruin you, if you can stand deterioration rather than improvement, and if you can stand that the whole world gets turned upside down over a VU. Then PE is for you. But for all others with principles and brains, there are other games out there. I heard EQ 2 is gonna have selling of items for real world cash implemented, so I think that's where you should head. MindArk need to seriously change back some things to how they were before, and rethink their business model, otherwise they won't last long. The latest VU was the last drop for me. Too bad MA has shown no signs of reversing things to where they worked best.
I will continue to monitor this thread and add comments.
Cya around! In some other game of course
(And no, my name in PE is not "Mr Kellogs", but MA would probably ban me if they read this, meaning a loss of cash, so I prefer being anonymous for the time being.)
Fascinating post Mr Kellogs, thanks for the information and your thoughts...
It basically confirms most of what I found in the few months I played PE.
For many reasons, I just cant see it lasting much longer... im happy to be proved wrong but the graphics are already pretty dated, its not much fun to play and like you said its VERY hard to get in front, if not almost impossible.
Which leads me back to my main concern.... what happens to the folks who have invested thou$ands of bucks... I can see court cases... but no doubt MA has a fine print clause to deal with this event.
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
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"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Razorback: It's not even fine print. In their license agreement it states that you are only entitled to the amount of money that you've actually deposited, and if the company goes bankrupt they really don't *have* to give anything back. Their agreement is comparitively short in relation to most other MMORPGs, so if you want to take a look it shouldn't take you more than about 15 minutes to read through it. Essentially, the game is there to turn a profit for MA, and the users/consumers are getting screwed - they will continue to get screwed, and I doubt that that will change at all.
As unfortunate as it is - I think the idea is workable, but the company is simply running it into the ground. I'm willing to cope with lower end graphics if it's made up for in gameplay, but their gameplay is decreasing faster than the graphics have...
Why does PE cost $50 weekly to hunt?
Why can I kill 12 monsters in a row without receiving anything in loot?
Why does someone kill a real easy creature and receive a loot of 500 ped?
Why do I get nothing for killing a huge drone robot?
Why can't I sell my looted/crafted items anymore in the general marketplace?
Why don't I get any skills when I craft?
Why does only 1 new player in 20 or 30 stay and play?
Why do u get a crappy (zero value) weapon for successfully mentoring a new player?
When I deposit $50 (weekly), why does it take 200 ped ($20) to repair everything for a week?
Why do the 2 or 3 populated areas look like ghost towns on weekday nights?
Answer these questions Marco...
Its just plain wrong....
[quote]Originally posted by MrKelloggs
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Marco : After all, they (the players) are the ones playing Project Entropia and who invest money and time into it, so why should we impose strange rules onto them?
Truth : They don't. They impose drastical changes onto them instead. Like the ones mentioned above.
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actually theres some very stange rules imposed to gear/avatar these days..
other than that..
I agree with you 100%
I know this thread is almost a year old, but I would just like to say thanks, especially to MrKelloggs for taking the time to write about his experience. I was downloading the game when I read your post and cancelled it as soon as I finished reading this.
Project Entropia suck
))))) This Creature dont carry any LOOT !!!!!! Opsss i just kill Marco 
wtf
aaa
LawL azz
LawL azz
Yes....Paige is Trader...
and she is UGLY !!!
And dont buy any items from Paige she will rip u off
WARNING !!!
aaa
lol
Paige u are fucking
UGLY !!!!
Paige work for Mindark
aaa
Paige is damn UGLY !!!
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^^(-_-)^^
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aaa