Far be it from me to be a WoW defender but was bringing million of new people into the genre really a bad thing?
Honestly, it's one of the changes to the genre that I think was highly detrimental. With smaller communites, the quality of those communities was generally much better. Many of those new millions of players who've never experienced a strong, helpful community will never see MMORPGs as more than a video game, like Pacman or Mario Brothers.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
However, the Worst-Thing-To-Happen-To-The-Genre title goes to certain design elements, some of which were introduced or exhibited heavily in WOW or other games:
Winner: Forced Storyline Gamplay
Runners Up: Phasing
Heavy use of Instancing
Trivial Death Penalties
Insta-porting (by non-porting classes)
Dishonorable Mention:
Welfare epics
Server-wide chat
Dual specs
I agree with most of what you mentioned.
But Dual Specs
and
Welfare epics
I HIGHLY disagree with.
Dual Specs - If you enjoy pvp, its very time consuming to spend money respeccing everytime you want to run an instance or vice versa. Dual Specs are a great idea.
Welfare Epics- This one gets my blood boiling.The term "welfare epics" was made up by butt hurt raiders who wanted their gear to remain GODLY. And in WoW, a purple geared toon fighting someone in blues was nearly a joke.
Also people who use the term "welfare epics" are making a judgement call that one form of time spent (raiding) is worth more than someone who spends there time pvp'ing. I enjoy fighting real life opponents instead of scripted rinse and repeat dungeons.
What if raiders had to pvp just to raid, how would that sit with the raiding crowd? Carebear QQ incoming...
I agree with those who say WoW was both the best and the worst thing to happen to the Genre. I played UO and EQ, and Vanilla WoW was great. Some people don't like the graphics, but I find them fun, colorful, and much preferable to the more 'realistic' graphic attempts that other companies have made.
WoW always had it's balance problems, but where they really started to blow the game out was towards the end of BC, where they removed the quest chains and attunements from raids and increased AoE tanking to the point where it was nearly impossible for the Tank to lose aggro, ushering in the age of AoE nuking instances.
Recently I started a new account, curious to see the leveling experience without BoA Items or the gold resources of end content characters. I played a Worgen Survival hunter to level 46, and realized I had not a single PvE death, have never had to ressurect my pet outside of a BG, and 90% of at level mobs die before they reach melee even if I don't have a pet out.
Doing LFG dungeons is ludicrous, we go in at appropriate level to SM and the tank pulls 3-5 groups at a time and chain pulls with no break needed for mana or health.
PvP is a different story, WoW has built in Twinking with BoA items. I was level 39 in WSG. Two level 37 Prot Fighters were camping the Graveyard and killing 4-6 enemy players at a time and losing no health. Chain stunning with charges and concussion blow, and their shield slams were doing 500+ damage with over 1k crits. By contrast my Hunter, who wasn't wearing trash, a nice mix of blues, did about half of that with Explosive shot. At higher levels the introduction of Resilience killed casual PvP.
They've made no unique classes per faction, removed crafting specializations, dual speccing means everyone does everything, removing pet happiness.. they're not only making the game easier and easier, but more and more bland.
WoW did a lot of good things for MMORPGs, but they've also done quite a few bad things that it's difficult to say whether or not the genre will ever recover from.
However, the Worst-Thing-To-Happen-To-The-Genre title goes to certain design elements, some of which were introduced or exhibited heavily in WOW or other games:
Winner: Forced Storyline Gamplay
Runners Up: Phasing
Heavy use of Instancing
Trivial Death Penalties
Insta-porting (by non-porting classes)
Dishonorable Mention:
Welfare epics
Server-wide chat
Dual specs
I agree with most of what you mentioned.
But Dual Specs
and
Welfare epics
I HIGHLY disagree with.
Dual Specs - If you enjoy pvp, its very time consuming to spend money respeccing everytime you want to run an instance or vice versa. Dual Specs are a great idea.
Welfare Epics- This one gets my blood boiling.The term "welfare epics" was made up by butt hurt raiders who wanted their gear to remain GODLY. And in WoW, a purple geared toon fighting someone in blues was nearly a joke.
Also people who use the term "welfare epics" are making a judgement call that one form of time spent (raiding) is worth more than someone who spends there time pvp'ing. I enjoy fighting real life opponents instead of scripted rinse and repeat dungeons.
What if raiders had to pvp just to raid, how would that sit with the raiding crowd? Carebear QQ incoming...
If Dual Specs only worked in BGs and Arenas that would be one thing, but by and large it is used primarily for healers/tanks to have a DPS Spec and vice versa. It made virtually everyone a healer/tank, further expanding WoW's EZmode, and made gearing up twice as hard because 'My other spec is tank bro'
Welfare epics: I don't care about the whole elitist views of either PvPers or PvErs, They were called Welfare Epics because you didn't actually have to be good at anything to get them, you just had to participate. Then once you had played in/AFKed in enough BGs, you had epics that were good enough to start you raiding to get better epics, which means that indeed, for many people, they had to PvP just to raid.
Dual Speccing and PvP Epics didn't affect just PVP, they had a far ranging impact on the entirety of the game that led to further complications. Taking an antagonistic stance that fails to connect the dots between these issues and wider issues in the game just illustrates what many people find so annoying with WoW players.
Dual Specs - If you enjoy pvp, its very time consuming to spend money respeccing everytime you want to run an instance or vice versa. Dual Specs are a great idea.
Welfare Epics- This one gets my blood boiling.The term "welfare epics" was made up by butt hurt raiders who wanted their gear to remain GODLY. And in WoW, a purple geared toon fighting someone in blues was nearly a joke.
Also people who use the term "welfare epics" are making a judgement call that one form of time spent (raiding) is worth more than someone who spends there time pvp'ing. I enjoy fighting real life opponents instead of scripted rinse and repeat dungeons.
What if raiders had to pvp just to raid, how would that sit with the raiding crowd? Carebear QQ incoming...
If Dual Specs only worked in BGs and Arenas that would be one thing, but by and large it is used primarily for healers/tanks to have a DPS Spec and vice versa. It made virtually everyone a healer/tank, further expanding WoW's EZmode, and made gearing up twice as hard because 'My other spec is tank bro'
Welfare epics: I don't care about the whole elitist views of either PvPers or PvErs, They were called Welfare Epics because you didn't actually have to be good at anything to get them, you just had to participate. Then once you had played in/AFKed in enough BGs, you had epics that were good enough to start you raiding to get better epics, which means that indeed, for many people, they had to PvP just to raid.
Dual Speccing and PvP Epics didn't affect just PVP, they had a far ranging impact on the entirety of the game that led to further complications. Taking an antagonistic stance that fails to connect the dots between these issues and wider issues in the game just illustrates what many people find so annoying with WoW players.
If you raided with a good group of people, primary spec always got priority. If you were referring to 5-mans, then its really no big deal, due to the shear number of them people run for badges. Overall, dual speccing helped because it made available more tanks and healers that weren't originally available without constantly paying to respec.
And you don't "have" to pvp to raid. If your raid is a bunch of elitists you feel like you "need" a certain item/gear score/or dps to raid with them, then find a new group. There are plenty examples of well skilled gamers beating all the content that full epic'd out players did. WoW has sadly become a big epeen contest, where people are judged entirely by gear and not skill. Its a sad but true fact, and the only way around it is to find some friends and have fun doing the content together. I really feel sorry for anyone who gets his/her feelings hurt because someone else got an epic via pvp, tokens, or any other labeled "easy mode". Who cares? It doesn't affect your ability to raid if someone gets an item doing pvp. It doesn't affect your abilities if someone gets gear via tokens/badges. It's not like WoW is running out of them and someone else just got the last one. Play for yourself. Play for your guild. And stop worrying about what others are getting, when you have the same opportunities.
PS this is not directly focused at Fflarn or any other that was quoted, just general thoughts.
YES and we all know why dont have to explain hehe.
NO also becouse millions start playing mmos we got many new mmos and free to play choices.
But now we need some new fresh developer who makes a great mmo that dare to be different.
I say at moment 1 dare to make a attemp to be different is The Secret World if it delivers we have to see but, with no elfs-dwarfs-orcs and no lvls and classes i say they going the right direction.
SWtor - GW2 and others all walking the same EQ road resulting in WoW look alike themepark easy cameplay for mass.
Sandbox still best bet i think but commercially maybe less intresting result themepark EQ-WoW clone:(
WoW worse game ive ever played for short while, terible game just terible.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
I'm thinking no. The worst thing to happen was other developers trying to ride on the success of WoW and pump out themepark games that lack innovation.
Well one thing is a side effect of the other so the main cause is still WoW. Cant really blame investors for investing in what they think is making money no more than you can blame vultures for feasting on carcasses, that is what they do. The issue, as I see it, is that WoW is what made these vultures interested in the genre.
If you hate wow so much, man up and say it. Don't hide behind a poll. It's childish.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
I'm thinking no. The worst thing to happen was other developers trying to ride on the success of WoW and pump out themepark games that lack innovation.
Well one thing is a side effect of the other so the main cause is still WoW. Cant really blame investors for investing in what they think is making money no more than you can blame vultures for feasting on carcasses, that is what they do. The issue, as I see it, is that WoW is what made these vultures interested in the genre.
If you hate wow so much, man up and say it. Don't hide behind a poll. It's childish.
Didnt know it was manly to say that you hate something. In any case, I dont hate WoW or any other computer game. I reserve that for much worse things in life.
Yes and no. It did inspire many developers to make meaningless (and far worse) clones, but it also really helped booting the industry in a much broader sense.
No, the worst thing to happen to the genre is all developers/games coming after WoW, and them not being able to look past the $ signs it was raking in.
WoW isn't to blame for the lack of inovation in the genre, everyone else's greed is.
I've actually changed my tune on this. A few years ago I would have said WoW was the worst thing to happen to this genre, but now I merely think it was a game that did things a different way and had people latch on to it. WoW made MMOs more accessible and that was probably a good thing.
If I was going to lay the blame anywhere then I would put it firmly and squarely at the feet of all the numerous developers since that have felt the need to try and do things the WoW way to maximise sales, rather than their own way. That is what has made the genre stale.
Whether I like the direction WoW took is another matter, but I don't think Blizzard ruined the genre all by themselves. It takes two to tango.
No. The MMO 'holy trinity' is the worst thing to happen to MMOs. Just having the 'holy trinity' locks you into generic gameplay. That's why too many MMOs are so alike these days.
I agree, it not wow fault it's the game companys looking to feed of the scraps of blizzards table. it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that game companys want to build a better mouse trap. Where sandboxes all went wrong was SWG.
If you look at time lines, IF SOE had stuck to their development guns and had not followed blizzard. They would have opened the door to many sandbox MMOs. But sadly it failed and the entire genre moved toward themeparks. If it had been a smashing success then other game developers would have copied SWG.
If SWG had not followed Blizzard the game would have probably also crashed and burned.
SOE's problem was that they had a very ambitious game that was falling apart on them. Their code had major holes in it and by the time of the NGE they were still fixing errors they had during release. They needed to add a whole new layer of content and they just could not do so without the game imploding on them. SOE's arrogance and incompetence created a mess and the NGE was a way of them getting out of it. It predictably failed and proved an object lesson to all other developers.
The wave of threads like this is the worst thing to happen to the genre.
Seriously. We all know it, it doesn't need so many threads. People that agree are old school and in-the-know and any way you want to put it. People that disagree are noobs and should be pwned and stuff.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug. 12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
I do not think that World of Warcraft killed the genre, they made it as it is nowadays. If we are talking about a MMORPG we are talking somehow about World of Warcraft. They put up a standerd on which many companies still can't equal. Still somehow, I wonder from time to time about how it would look if those 12 million players were playing another mmorpg. Would it still be a WoW'ish game, or something completely else?
I said Maybe, as the games since Wow, have pretty much all been shit. Compare any of them to the time I spent in EQ, and none even come close. The 2 games that have held my attention the longest since my 3-4 year EQ stent are EVE and WAR which are far different than the typical WoW game copy.
Personally, I just hate the WoW community, and the players that have bred from it coming into the MMO universe of gaming. A bunch of casual/Diablo tards. There never really felt like there was as much elitism and BS back in the day. People just played to play. Maybe it is just the genre progressing into some other thing, I don't know. I feel like WoW is just a game to make people feel like they are gamers, yet they are not at all. It is like XBox players that think their system is amazing and the best. Just because you work at McDonalds and can't afford a REAL PC/or a REAL GAMING system, doesn't mean your POS is the best out there. WoW and many consoles basically cater to this crowd.
I am more serious about my gaming. If I have to drop 2k+ on a new rig for something I want to play, done. I am about progressing the genre, the more horsepower, the better. Rehashing the same crap, and actually dumbing things down from how it was 10 years ago? We are most definitely on your way down the road of Idiocracy (watch the movie, it is good).
All I know, is I wish there were a lot more of the EQ style games (longer progression/infinite progression, harsher penalties, grinding, exploring, named camping, etc.) Than the plethora of WoW-like games that are flooding the market now. I like the niche games, the real games. I am tired of the easy-mode casual garbage of the past 10 years. It gets so stale and so boring, so quickly. It is pathetic that so many people like it, but there is also a reason for easily 95% of the people that play WoW being totally horrible gamers, or gold farmers.
I like a gamers game (challenging, yet rewarding), not some silly trash that parents buy their 8 year old kids with down syndrome to play.
The following is only opinion. It may be the opinion of a mentally unstable individual. Please do not take it too seriously, nor ignore it as only the rambling of someone with rectal-cranial insertion.
Now that I got that out of the way.
No, WoW was/is not the worst thing to happen to any genre. Casuals are not, same with hardore.
The genre may feel bland, recycled or cloned, but in reality, it is only what YOU make of it. If it is ruined, it very well MAY be your expectations not getting met. I read though the 5 pages here and have to admit that this poll/thread has three types of answers. You have the complainers, the fans and the rational people (Complainers and fans are rational, but may not be looking at the whole picture).
The average MMO is based on one thing: Capitalism.
If people pay for what is there, then demand exists. The average MMO has found a working business model. I am as much to blame for all the clones as JoeBob Blizzard, Frank Everquest, Jim Atari.
I pay to play games, I play free games. I have been casual, hardcore and every stage inbetween. Yes, almost every MMO (in fact almost every game) is similar. If there was a better market for the mold-breakers, they'd be the new clone saga.
I have had dreams come true, hopes shattered and thorns placed gently in my side by WoW, DDo, EQ etc. In the end, I had no one to blame but myself. The same rings true for real life Gold prices re: Supply/demand. Catering to the most common demoninator is the wisest thing a business can do... I do not care for some of the demographics, but as a lazy, fat Capitalist pig-dog, it's something I have to accept.
Want games to change? Feel your needs are not getting met? Start the change. If enough people put their feet down, then yes, change would happen.... the money is the key. If everyone with a credit card wanted what you want, then guess what would happen.
The people are the problem with MMOs, not the games/designers/devs/tycoons etc.
It is my fault, your fault. I have a very deep seated respect for my fellow gamers, all of you (yes, even the trollish ones) are important members of the community. I also have a respect for successful business models, and the cloned MMOs are hopping on the gravy train, I cannot fault them, even if I hate it.
Dual Specs - If you enjoy pvp, its very time consuming to spend money respeccing everytime you want to run an instance or vice versa. Dual Specs are a great idea.
Welfare Epics- This one gets my blood boiling.The term "welfare epics" was made up by butt hurt raiders who wanted their gear to remain GODLY. And in WoW, a purple geared toon fighting someone in blues was nearly a joke.
Also people who use the term "welfare epics" are making a judgement call that one form of time spent (raiding) is worth more than someone who spends there time pvp'ing. I enjoy fighting real life opponents instead of scripted rinse and repeat dungeons.
What if raiders had to pvp just to raid, how would that sit with the raiding crowd? Carebear QQ incoming...
If Dual Specs only worked in BGs and Arenas that would be one thing, but by and large it is used primarily for healers/tanks to have a DPS Spec and vice versa. It made virtually everyone a healer/tank, further expanding WoW's EZmode, and made gearing up twice as hard because 'My other spec is tank bro'
Welfare epics: I don't care about the whole elitist views of either PvPers or PvErs, They were called Welfare Epics because you didn't actually have to be good at anything to get them, you just had to participate. Then once you had played in/AFKed in enough BGs, you had epics that were good enough to start you raiding to get better epics, which means that indeed, for many people, they had to PvP just to raid.
Dual Speccing and PvP Epics didn't affect just PVP, they had a far ranging impact on the entirety of the game that led to further complications. Taking an antagonistic stance that fails to connect the dots between these issues and wider issues in the game just illustrates what many people find so annoying with WoW players.
If you raided with a good group of people, primary spec always got priority. If you were referring to 5-mans, then its really no big deal, due to the shear number of them people run for badges. Overall, dual speccing helped because it made available more tanks and healers that weren't originally available without constantly paying to respec.
And you don't "have" to pvp to raid. If your raid is a bunch of elitists you feel like you "need" a certain item/gear score/or dps to raid with them, then find a new group. There are plenty examples of well skilled gamers beating all the content that full epic'd out players did. WoW has sadly become a big epeen contest, where people are judged entirely by gear and not skill. Its a sad but true fact, and the only way around it is to find some friends and have fun doing the content together. I really feel sorry for anyone who gets his/her feelings hurt because someone else got an epic via pvp, tokens, or any other labeled "easy mode". Who cares? It doesn't affect your ability to raid if someone gets an item doing pvp. It doesn't affect your abilities if someone gets gear via tokens/badges. It's not like WoW is running out of them and someone else just got the last one. Play for yourself. Play for your guild. And stop worrying about what others are getting, when you have the same opportunities.
PS this is not directly focused at Fflarn or any other that was quoted, just general thoughts.
My feelings don't get hurt, I was talking about the ways the game has changed. I played from Release till a little after the release of Ulduar. I was a guild main tank, and played on an 2v2 Arena team just for fun.
And it's a fact that tanking BRD in Vanilla was harder than any tank job in any of the expansions.
I can remember spending hours in SM patiently going pull by pull. Now a level 35 tank with BoA gear can clear armory with three pulls.
I'd rather see community fostered by having skilled roles rather than just 'Oh, no one can tank? let me hits button'. How often do you see this, you join looking for dungeon. Get a group. No one ever talks, just chain pull back to back to finish the instance as quickly as possible to get a badge.
Back before Horde got Paladins, I used to have to tank by using shield slam and revenge on the main target and keeping up a sunder rotation with a mouse over macro on the adds. Tanking took focus and awareness. Now you can charge in, shield slam, shockwave, have a hunter misdirect to you, and it's almost to the point that you can go get a sandwich and not lose aggro.
My problem with WoW has been the steady progression to make the game easier and easier, while removing everything unique (faction specific classes, profession specializations, etc). In some ways I'm surprised they havn't reached the point where every toon starts off at level 55 like DKs yet.
I don't care if people got 'welfare epics', I had my own set for PvP, but just because I don't care doesn't mean it didn't have an impact on the game.
WoW is one of the best things to happen to this genre. Amazing game.
WoW's SUCCESS is one of the worst things to happen to this genre. Simply horrible.
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
Comments
Honestly, it's one of the changes to the genre that I think was highly detrimental. With smaller communites, the quality of those communities was generally much better. Many of those new millions of players who've never experienced a strong, helpful community will never see MMORPGs as more than a video game, like Pacman or Mario Brothers.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
I agree with most of what you mentioned.
But Dual Specs
and
Welfare epics
I HIGHLY disagree with.
Dual Specs - If you enjoy pvp, its very time consuming to spend money respeccing everytime you want to run an instance or vice versa. Dual Specs are a great idea.
Welfare Epics- This one gets my blood boiling.The term "welfare epics" was made up by butt hurt raiders who wanted their gear to remain GODLY. And in WoW, a purple geared toon fighting someone in blues was nearly a joke.
Also people who use the term "welfare epics" are making a judgement call that one form of time spent (raiding) is worth more than someone who spends there time pvp'ing. I enjoy fighting real life opponents instead of scripted rinse and repeat dungeons.
What if raiders had to pvp just to raid, how would that sit with the raiding crowd? Carebear QQ incoming...
I agree with those who say WoW was both the best and the worst thing to happen to the Genre. I played UO and EQ, and Vanilla WoW was great. Some people don't like the graphics, but I find them fun, colorful, and much preferable to the more 'realistic' graphic attempts that other companies have made.
WoW always had it's balance problems, but where they really started to blow the game out was towards the end of BC, where they removed the quest chains and attunements from raids and increased AoE tanking to the point where it was nearly impossible for the Tank to lose aggro, ushering in the age of AoE nuking instances.
Recently I started a new account, curious to see the leveling experience without BoA Items or the gold resources of end content characters. I played a Worgen Survival hunter to level 46, and realized I had not a single PvE death, have never had to ressurect my pet outside of a BG, and 90% of at level mobs die before they reach melee even if I don't have a pet out.
Doing LFG dungeons is ludicrous, we go in at appropriate level to SM and the tank pulls 3-5 groups at a time and chain pulls with no break needed for mana or health.
PvP is a different story, WoW has built in Twinking with BoA items. I was level 39 in WSG. Two level 37 Prot Fighters were camping the Graveyard and killing 4-6 enemy players at a time and losing no health. Chain stunning with charges and concussion blow, and their shield slams were doing 500+ damage with over 1k crits. By contrast my Hunter, who wasn't wearing trash, a nice mix of blues, did about half of that with Explosive shot. At higher levels the introduction of Resilience killed casual PvP.
They've made no unique classes per faction, removed crafting specializations, dual speccing means everyone does everything, removing pet happiness.. they're not only making the game easier and easier, but more and more bland.
WoW did a lot of good things for MMORPGs, but they've also done quite a few bad things that it's difficult to say whether or not the genre will ever recover from.
If Dual Specs only worked in BGs and Arenas that would be one thing, but by and large it is used primarily for healers/tanks to have a DPS Spec and vice versa. It made virtually everyone a healer/tank, further expanding WoW's EZmode, and made gearing up twice as hard because 'My other spec is tank bro'
Welfare epics: I don't care about the whole elitist views of either PvPers or PvErs, They were called Welfare Epics because you didn't actually have to be good at anything to get them, you just had to participate. Then once you had played in/AFKed in enough BGs, you had epics that were good enough to start you raiding to get better epics, which means that indeed, for many people, they had to PvP just to raid.
Dual Speccing and PvP Epics didn't affect just PVP, they had a far ranging impact on the entirety of the game that led to further complications. Taking an antagonistic stance that fails to connect the dots between these issues and wider issues in the game just illustrates what many people find so annoying with WoW players.
No WoW was the best thing to happen to the industry , as a strong WoW hater I dare to say that .
It confirms that there is a bigger population out there then small group of 200k Fans .
Those it brought to EvE and other MMO , you think EvE would had a 500k Subscribers , if WoW didn´t open up the market .
Tons of MMO development wouldn´t have taken place , If there wasn´t a WoW .
I just really hate how cataclysme is 1 step forward and 2 step back .
But enough , WoW did open the market and people appreciating MMO should be thankfull for that .
But still don´t worship them :P cause worship or honeymoon period is over .
If you raided with a good group of people, primary spec always got priority. If you were referring to 5-mans, then its really no big deal, due to the shear number of them people run for badges. Overall, dual speccing helped because it made available more tanks and healers that weren't originally available without constantly paying to respec.
And you don't "have" to pvp to raid. If your raid is a bunch of elitists you feel like you "need" a certain item/gear score/or dps to raid with them, then find a new group. There are plenty examples of well skilled gamers beating all the content that full epic'd out players did. WoW has sadly become a big epeen contest, where people are judged entirely by gear and not skill. Its a sad but true fact, and the only way around it is to find some friends and have fun doing the content together. I really feel sorry for anyone who gets his/her feelings hurt because someone else got an epic via pvp, tokens, or any other labeled "easy mode". Who cares? It doesn't affect your ability to raid if someone gets an item doing pvp. It doesn't affect your abilities if someone gets gear via tokens/badges. It's not like WoW is running out of them and someone else just got the last one. Play for yourself. Play for your guild. And stop worrying about what others are getting, when you have the same opportunities.
PS this is not directly focused at Fflarn or any other that was quoted, just general thoughts.
YES and we all know why dont have to explain hehe.
NO also becouse millions start playing mmos we got many new mmos and free to play choices.
But now we need some new fresh developer who makes a great mmo that dare to be different.
I say at moment 1 dare to make a attemp to be different is The Secret World if it delivers we have to see but, with no elfs-dwarfs-orcs and no lvls and classes i say they going the right direction.
SWtor - GW2 and others all walking the same EQ road resulting in WoW look alike themepark easy cameplay for mass.
Sandbox still best bet i think but commercially maybe less intresting result themepark EQ-WoW clone:(
WoW worse game ive ever played for short while, terible game just terible.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
If you hate wow so much, man up and say it. Don't hide behind a poll. It's childish.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
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Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Didnt know it was manly to say that you hate something. In any case, I dont hate WoW or any other computer game. I reserve that for much worse things in life.
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Yes and no. It did inspire many developers to make meaningless (and far worse) clones, but it also really helped booting the industry in a much broader sense.
My brand new bloggity blog.
No, I think it was great for the genre.
No. That would be SOE...
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
No, the worst thing to happen to the genre is all developers/games coming after WoW, and them not being able to look past the $ signs it was raking in.
WoW isn't to blame for the lack of inovation in the genre, everyone else's greed is.
I've actually changed my tune on this. A few years ago I would have said WoW was the worst thing to happen to this genre, but now I merely think it was a game that did things a different way and had people latch on to it. WoW made MMOs more accessible and that was probably a good thing.
If I was going to lay the blame anywhere then I would put it firmly and squarely at the feet of all the numerous developers since that have felt the need to try and do things the WoW way to maximise sales, rather than their own way. That is what has made the genre stale.
Whether I like the direction WoW took is another matter, but I don't think Blizzard ruined the genre all by themselves. It takes two to tango.
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No. The MMO 'holy trinity' is the worst thing to happen to MMOs. Just having the 'holy trinity' locks you into generic gameplay. That's why too many MMOs are so alike these days.
If SWG had not followed Blizzard the game would have probably also crashed and burned.
SOE's problem was that they had a very ambitious game that was falling apart on them. Their code had major holes in it and by the time of the NGE they were still fixing errors they had during release. They needed to add a whole new layer of content and they just could not do so without the game imploding on them. SOE's arrogance and incompetence created a mess and the NGE was a way of them getting out of it. It predictably failed and proved an object lesson to all other developers.
The wave of threads like this is the worst thing to happen to the genre.
Seriously. We all know it, it doesn't need so many threads. People that agree are old school and in-the-know and any way you want to put it. People that disagree are noobs and should be pwned and stuff.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
I do not think that World of Warcraft killed the genre, they made it as it is nowadays. If we are talking about a MMORPG we are talking somehow about World of Warcraft. They put up a standerd on which many companies still can't equal. Still somehow, I wonder from time to time about how it would look if those 12 million players were playing another mmorpg. Would it still be a WoW'ish game, or something completely else?
I said Maybe, as the games since Wow, have pretty much all been shit. Compare any of them to the time I spent in EQ, and none even come close. The 2 games that have held my attention the longest since my 3-4 year EQ stent are EVE and WAR which are far different than the typical WoW game copy.
Personally, I just hate the WoW community, and the players that have bred from it coming into the MMO universe of gaming. A bunch of casual/Diablo tards. There never really felt like there was as much elitism and BS back in the day. People just played to play. Maybe it is just the genre progressing into some other thing, I don't know. I feel like WoW is just a game to make people feel like they are gamers, yet they are not at all. It is like XBox players that think their system is amazing and the best. Just because you work at McDonalds and can't afford a REAL PC/or a REAL GAMING system, doesn't mean your POS is the best out there. WoW and many consoles basically cater to this crowd.
I am more serious about my gaming. If I have to drop 2k+ on a new rig for something I want to play, done. I am about progressing the genre, the more horsepower, the better. Rehashing the same crap, and actually dumbing things down from how it was 10 years ago? We are most definitely on your way down the road of Idiocracy (watch the movie, it is good).
All I know, is I wish there were a lot more of the EQ style games (longer progression/infinite progression, harsher penalties, grinding, exploring, named camping, etc.) Than the plethora of WoW-like games that are flooding the market now. I like the niche games, the real games. I am tired of the easy-mode casual garbage of the past 10 years. It gets so stale and so boring, so quickly. It is pathetic that so many people like it, but there is also a reason for easily 95% of the people that play WoW being totally horrible gamers, or gold farmers.
I like a gamers game (challenging, yet rewarding), not some silly trash that parents buy their 8 year old kids with down syndrome to play.
The following is only opinion. It may be the opinion of a mentally unstable individual. Please do not take it too seriously, nor ignore it as only the rambling of someone with rectal-cranial insertion.
Now that I got that out of the way.
No, WoW was/is not the worst thing to happen to any genre. Casuals are not, same with hardore.
The genre may feel bland, recycled or cloned, but in reality, it is only what YOU make of it. If it is ruined, it very well MAY be your expectations not getting met. I read though the 5 pages here and have to admit that this poll/thread has three types of answers. You have the complainers, the fans and the rational people (Complainers and fans are rational, but may not be looking at the whole picture).
The average MMO is based on one thing: Capitalism.
If people pay for what is there, then demand exists. The average MMO has found a working business model. I am as much to blame for all the clones as JoeBob Blizzard, Frank Everquest, Jim Atari.
I pay to play games, I play free games. I have been casual, hardcore and every stage inbetween. Yes, almost every MMO (in fact almost every game) is similar. If there was a better market for the mold-breakers, they'd be the new clone saga.
I have had dreams come true, hopes shattered and thorns placed gently in my side by WoW, DDo, EQ etc. In the end, I had no one to blame but myself. The same rings true for real life Gold prices re: Supply/demand. Catering to the most common demoninator is the wisest thing a business can do... I do not care for some of the demographics, but as a lazy, fat Capitalist pig-dog, it's something I have to accept.
Want games to change? Feel your needs are not getting met? Start the change. If enough people put their feet down, then yes, change would happen.... the money is the key. If everyone with a credit card wanted what you want, then guess what would happen.
The people are the problem with MMOs, not the games/designers/devs/tycoons etc.
It is my fault, your fault. I have a very deep seated respect for my fellow gamers, all of you (yes, even the trollish ones) are important members of the community. I also have a respect for successful business models, and the cloned MMOs are hopping on the gravy train, I cannot fault them, even if I hate it.
Dude, It's just a game.
No.
I think it's all the devs trying to copy WoW instead of creating something origonal from their own imagination and creativity.
My theme song.
My feelings don't get hurt, I was talking about the ways the game has changed. I played from Release till a little after the release of Ulduar. I was a guild main tank, and played on an 2v2 Arena team just for fun.
And it's a fact that tanking BRD in Vanilla was harder than any tank job in any of the expansions.
I can remember spending hours in SM patiently going pull by pull. Now a level 35 tank with BoA gear can clear armory with three pulls.
I'd rather see community fostered by having skilled roles rather than just 'Oh, no one can tank? let me hits button'. How often do you see this, you join looking for dungeon. Get a group. No one ever talks, just chain pull back to back to finish the instance as quickly as possible to get a badge.
Back before Horde got Paladins, I used to have to tank by using shield slam and revenge on the main target and keeping up a sunder rotation with a mouse over macro on the adds. Tanking took focus and awareness. Now you can charge in, shield slam, shockwave, have a hunter misdirect to you, and it's almost to the point that you can go get a sandwich and not lose aggro.
My problem with WoW has been the steady progression to make the game easier and easier, while removing everything unique (faction specific classes, profession specializations, etc). In some ways I'm surprised they havn't reached the point where every toon starts off at level 55 like DKs yet.
I don't care if people got 'welfare epics', I had my own set for PvP, but just because I don't care doesn't mean it didn't have an impact on the game.
no.fact that millions have played wow at some point shows this.
it brought mmo mainstream and its not their fault every mmo post wow tried to copy its style.
Addicted, desperate players buying any game that is released in the hopes that it will satisfy their fix is the problem.
WoW is one of the best things to happen to this genre. Amazing game.
WoW's SUCCESS is one of the worst things to happen to this genre. Simply horrible.
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.