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I remember when just getting to the dungeon was a challenge
DrunkWolf
Member RarePosts: 1,701
I know lots of people may not think this is fun but for me it was great. getting a group together to do a quest then having to set off on foot threw some pretty dangerous territories just to get to the dungeon made the whole experience that much more exciting.
I played Asherons Call and back in those early days just going out to get a stone for your atlan could be some dangerous stuff. partys of 8 or so running threw lands full of monsters chasseing you, shooting magic at you. you had to run like hell, strafe and get in that portal as fast as possible or you were dog meat and there would have to be a corpse getting party after.
we all knew each other because we all hung out in the same town (( in that game people actually lived in the towns. Towns wernt quest hubs )) and finishing a quest felt like you just did somthing epic.
now we have dungeon finders that magicly teleport you to some instance. you dont even know anybody in your group, you run threw the dungeon that doesnt even respawn adds so its even easyer and when your done you go on your way. yay fun NOT.
anyways i was just looking at some of the MMOs that are out there and cant bring myself to give any of them money to play. hope somthing comes out soon that is actually a challenge. so tired of these easy mode dumbed down piles of dung that companys keep putting out.
Comments
Give me a few years to polish up and release Emergence Online with all of its planned features.
Until then, I feel for you. That's why more than a year ago I began Emergence Online and have since been working on it nonstop. Still, it's far from ready, and also (to some's disappointment" a 2D game similar in graphical style to Ultima Online (2.5D Isometric, which is actually Dimetric)
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
Have you considered a move to a 3d engine? Perhaps Ryzom's open source engine?
Where can I find out more 'bout ur project?
Lazy developing and lazy gaming. A shame, but with the age of entitlements and welfare, not uncommon.
The issue is not laziness, as such, its more about greed. Now greed is natural and necessary its part of what drives us to make goals.
But with random loot and greed inter-mixed you naturally lead people into a farming frame of mind. EQ became one big farm just as WoW always was.
While I can understand about getting to a dungeon being a challenge being nice for some people. You have to realize the reward scheme EQ prmulgated out to WoW (as opposed to Asheron's Call which has a real randomized loot system). Basically undermined the features you liked.
Asheron's Call was a much better game to my mind for this sort of stuff. It is not WoW that is to blame. WoW was the natural progression of EQ loot and greed. Of course it got streamlined down to simply farming an isntance as fast as possible, that became most people number 1 goal.
Whereas in AC farming a particular instance for a particular drop made no real sense. Thus the dungeons were not undermined nor was the part of the world you traveled to get there (unless it was trivial of course).
I completely agree.
In lineage 2, when it launched, getting to Antharas' lair or even the area close to it in order to get the blood of a bloody queen in order to level your clan was a challenge. Heck, we were under levle and had to get a clan party and a few extra just to fight out way there.
It was like an epic journey. now you can port right to the mouth of the cave.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
well I would add that it's about expedient use of the player's time.
Instead of creating areas that players might just not be able to get to because of distance and hardship they have created far flung areas that look good on a map but where players can get to them and "get into the action" as quicly as possible. I can understand that mode of thought becuase if one doesn't have a lot of time then one wants to get to what they consider the meat of the journy. When, in the thougths of some, that journey is about all facets of its scope.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
...then the genre woke up and said "Why the hell am I limiting players' ability to group quickly with one another!? Aren't I supposed to provide a social experience?"
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I have to agree with the OP. In lotro you had places like Carn Dum, Urugraph, The rift, Helgrod. Most of those with the exception of helegrod you had to either fight you way thourgh, or find a hunter who had made it to the port and take a taxi cab. Still then you had to get into the instance which meant you had a fight on your hands.
Now day in lotro they have the join panel, it was the last straw for me when they did this. Hey want a dungeon, just hit the key bingo, from anywhere in the world ins-ta travel and your there. Talk about taking out the emergence.
I actually even enjoyed just getting a group together to go exploring in other games. I suppose that is more of a sandbox MMO experience (Did lots of grouped exploring in Fallen Earth in the first few months after launch) but that and a hard slog through areas to reach dungeons was good and bad for me.
The good was the fun of getting there, the bad was definitely when people had to leave durign a run or shortly after arrival and then you had to try to find a replacement then slog your way back out to meet your replacement, then slog your way back to the dungeon entrance.
Yeah. I remember.
I spent more time running around in underwear for Corpse Run 2123152 than acutally PLAYING THE GAME.
No thanks!
I feel like a jerk in RL for free already. In a game I PAY I wanna feel like a hero. You know, for the contrast...
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
It can patly be traced to the difference in who plays these games now as well. When UO, EQ, and AC were fresh the RPG in the name meant something. People played for the experience of playing and immersing themselves in the virtual world. As years progressed and more arcade/console gamers get into the genre they complained because MMO's weren't instant gratification like the games they were used to. So over the years as the shift increased and more preasure was put on the RPG players they slowly sank into the background. As a general rule, those who enjoy social interaction and roleplay are non-confrontational and polite. We all know the forums are the battleground of the hostile and loud mouthed. Devs only see the forums overflowing with griping and whining about the way their games are designed but they do not realize that the very people many of them built these games for at the ones no one hears from. It is an unfortunate predicament because roleplayers/immursion junkies will very rarely if ever speak up for themselves so even games designed for them will eventually be over-run, ruined, and then abandoned by the cancer of quick fix gamers that are plaguing the market. In the end it will take some brave development company building an immersive, deep, roleplay environment and then simply putting their foot down the way CCP does with EvE by saying, you don't like the way our game is made, too bad. Log off and don't come back. This is not the game for you.
Travel and exploring the game world was part of the experance or use to be.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Best. Post. Eva !
LOL
ok fine you win that's funny.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Teh, I can accept there are MMOS for different strokes. I don't have to play EVE or Darkfall or Lineage. But it's ok they exist for other sort of people. The urge is just alien to me for said reasons.
Unlike some I don't think *everything* has to be tailor made for me! As long as I have my MMos, you can have yours too. ^^
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Yea I definitely miss that. I wish dungeons were NOT instanced too. They should be large and massive for exploration. This just adds to the tingly feel of adventure.
Bloody theme park MMOs...
I hate instancing with a passion. Those damn lazy devs...
Anyway, a good challenge is always in beween boredom (too easy) and frustration (too hard).
Having to get guild help plus some more people just to get to the dungeon entrance definitely sounds "too hard" to me.
And yet somehow with all the improvements, players are less social than ever due to this same new line of thinking.
Curious.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Unfortunately, some of us aren't finding MMO's being made to our tastes which has made us a bit cranky.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I recall a time after BC started in WoW. People yelling for a PUG in trade, and I joined the group. Nobody was at the meeting stone and nobody was even trying to get there. I started travelling, it wasn't close for me.
Me: OMW to stone, who else is coming, we need two there.
*silence*
Me: Anyone coming to the stone?
*silence*
Tank: My dad's home, GTG time for homework, bye.
*xxx has left the group, You are now group leader*
Me: Look for a tank or ditch it?
*silence*
Even typing this and my blood boils. Man, do I despise PUGs.
/agree
The problem is, most children complained about what other people had & felt entitled to them, because they subscribe to game (I call it a story line). So instead of understanding (respecting) the fortitude it takes to get people to a dungeon (alive) and amass a competent group, ... they started making words to defend their inability to be up for the challange as being a "grind".
Problem is... u don't need that item, or.. have be in that dungeon, ... none of that matters to your gameplay, unless your utterly jealous of what others have.. and drool over what other accomplished. Since most game are shallow and player experience only comes from exp from mobs.. all these kids know is "grinding exp" & not role playing.
Today... in kiddieland... dungeons are doorways to free shopping markets, with absolutely no challange at all. And the children today grew up drinking Blizzard's Koolaid... are now tainted forever & will never seek out a challenge. They want everything handed to them. They are conditioned to come to the forums and complain about their inabilities, than to challenge themselves upon what the world offers to all.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
heck reading that my blood boils. I almost want to rant. and it didnt' even happen to me!
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I remmeber in Lotro when the level cap went from 50 to 60 or 65 (?). We thought with new gear Carn Dum and Uru were a joke so 4 of us tried training our way there and it resulted in a nasty but fun death (on both sides!).
It was fun, but I'm still glad my queues are limited to 20 minutes in WoW. I honestly think it was the dungeon finder that hooked me to the game.
It started with concepts like summoning stones.
Once lazy players found out someone else could go and drag them in, that was all they needed, though I wouldn't give up the ability to summon a person who needed to hearth for an item forgotten.
All instant-teleport did was make it so less lazy players didn't have to summon the lazy ones.
Of course, we all play these games too much, lazy irl > lazy in game.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
Vanguard is the only PVE mmo that still offers the old way of doing things,it really is a dangerous world.
Small population and all but it's still the best PVE mmo out today even with it's lack of updates. Anyone starting for the first time would not notice the lack of updates because their is at least 2 years worth of content for a nooby to get through and more.