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looking for an mmo where crowd controlling is needed
phatmhat
Member Posts: 13
im looking for a good game and thought i'd ask here for some suggestions.
here's what im looking for.
i like to feel frequently needed in an mmo battle. but i don't like tanking or healing or dps/debuffing. i like crowd controllilng or ccing. seems like there are few games out there for me then.
most games it seems the tanks job is to mash buttons to continually keep aggro. the healers job is to mash buttons to keep everyone healed - but not mash too much so that he gets aggro. the rest of everyone's job is to mash buttons to max the dps on the mob - also without mashing too much they get aggro.
this is boring to me. and yet literally millions of people are doing it for hours and hours and hours every single day. and game after game after game basically boils down to this. most the time this is what ppl are doing. mashing buttons without much particular challenge.
it just boggles me and frankly most of society why ppl do this. "this" has been compared to hamsters running on tredmill.
the reason i like cc characters is because it requires more than just mashing buttons. (now maybe many of you can convince me of the intense strategy involved in tanking or healing or dps or debuff character playing. i welcome such. but as i said, it seems to me most tanking, healing, etc plays isn't very challenging. almost the only challenge...which isnt much of one...is not healing or dps/dbuffing too much.)
-if i don't stop those other mobs from comming my team will die. period. i like this.
-i have to chose which mob to cc first. i have to prioritze. should i let the little guys go? can my team handle them? or should i stop this big guy here? the fun is in the coordination! "ok you guys take that mob. u - u take those little ones. ill stop these guys."
-i have to chose which spell to use on which mob and when and keep track of when which spell ends. i don't want to root a ranged mob. i dont want mez a distant mele mob. fun challenge!
-add debuffing/buffing/dps/healing to the mix and DANG i am having a blast! woa look at that mob going right to my weak rogue. lets see i can buff him or i can root the mob or i can toss a heal or i can tell the healer to watch or maybe the tank can get there in time and pull him off.
ok you guys getting the picture? which game has this kind of character in it...and is NEEDED?
i remember cifty of heroes. i could be a crowd controlling/healing character. i was! but guess what? i never needed to crowd control because everyone else could just dps the crap out of things and the healer could take care of the healing. there wasnt any need to crowd control in that game. id go on mission after mission and do nothing and everything was fine.
i remember in dark age of camelot, swarms of gremlin guys comming at us while we were fighting a mob or two. and i literally saved the day with my ccing. but then it got to the point where the tanks took that roll. they could collect all the aggro and stay alive while the healer healed them and the dps/debuffers took care fo the mobs. i wasnt needed.
ok long post. thank you.
Comments
Sadly PvP killed CC PvE
Those days are gone , and won´t return .
Cataclysme heroics , I am already tanking without CC from day 1 , a good healer appreciate only having to heal 1 target .
Instead of noobs breaking CC and she has to overcompensate for healing 3 targets .
Sorry the days of a pure CC class is over , City of Heroes is the last probaly where CC plays a very important role.
Don´t know if cryptic Champions Online has CC roles again , or Star Trek online .
But cryptic usually sticks to what they did before and known .
So try those games on trial .
But it the same argument as holy trinity . games are made for casual gamers ... to compensate for the lack of skills .
i agree that pvp killed cc. no one likes to be mezd and then killed. but then again there could have been (and were) spells that could UNmez ppl. (in daoc i could mez ppl and unmez my teammates.)
but i guess that leads us to your second and deeper truth. too much complexity and difficulty...well its too much for ppl and so they don't buy the game and that's no bueno so devs just leave it out. keep with the holy trinity.
coh as i said did NOT need ccing. only if you soloed or maybe duoed.
come to think of it anothe raeson why ccing went the way of the dodo bird was because of soloing. classes were given healing spells or weak ccing so they didn't have to look for a healer. they could just solo. so again, cc classes werent needed.
i fear what yous aid is true. they're not comming back.
but hopefully someone will give me game.
Modern MMO's are now MSO's - massively single player online games - so everything is designed so players don't get swamped with mobs. In a lot of these new MMO's all you have to do is step back 10 feet and the mob decides you've gone too far away and just returns to its spawn spot. And the people who like these games say they haven't been dumbed down. Hah!
The closest I've found to CC in a modern MMO was playing a Loremaster in Lord of the Rings Online. You could mez one, root another, cause an area stun, that sort of thing, and it did help some battles, though really a DPS/Tank class could handle things if the mob became unmezzed so it wasn't a big deal. The only time it seemed to matter were in raids, but then they dumbed them down from 4 groups to 2, then 2 groups to 1, so the game went with the rest of the junk into casual city.
My hope is for EverQuest Next, maybe they'll go back to the roots, but this is SOE we're talking about so I'm not crossing my fingers.
Have you tried Lord of the Rings? It has a cc class called the Loremaster that sounds right up your alley. I've just started the game myself (only level 21) but it seems like CC is important especially in skirmishes.. Its also F2P so may as well give it a go.
yup i can see and agree with this observation too.
i tried out rift this weekend. i only soloed up to level 12 but it felt like i could just keep going. ive heard you can solo in wow all the way through.
ppl want to be able to jump in, pwn, get mad loot and log off, all without much a wait. neccesitating even a healer makes this hard. too hard and thus scaring players and thus money away. so devs have, and show me if im wrong, devs have given players healing powers and made mobs soloable such that most the time you dont need anyone. and even if you do get in trouble you just run away like you said.
sigh.
now they have made more challenging mobs and areas. but ive yet to see any of those need more than the holy trinity. and because the challenge is optional and most ppl out there arent looking for a challenge but to pwn, get phat loot and simplicity...
gosh even fps games are the same. take bad company 2 or black ops. all these team features built into the games. voice chat. and rarely if ever do ppl use them or even really play as a team.
thanks for the word on eq next. ill look into that.
i wish us luck.
Not played to much in Vangard, but if `I remember right, seems that they have more of an emphasis of CC then may of the other games I've tried, agree about liking the unusual support classes though, got to love the missing bard in all the new games
yeh i tried it. a lil clunky to me and a lil less populated. probably because it doesn't cater to the masses - so it doesnt get them. it doesnt cater to pwning.lewting and simplicity so they go play wow or something.
ill try it again and i hope i find some ppl that need me. an earlier poster said it wasnt really that needed tho. tanks easily picked up the role of loremasters. i can totally see that. happened in dark age where cc characters were amazing.
thanks for posting with your suggestion.
Check out GW2 at least they are "trying" to do away with the trinity, it may work..it may not
yes i played a dominator in gw 1. was a blast. very challenging. very needed. except, yet again, my roll was limited. i was limited to just power draing. not ccing. the archers were better at that. or...i cant remember just what happened.
i also didnt like how it wasnt so much pve and how it wasnt so much and mmo but a instance game. ya know?
i'll check out gw2. hopefullyr youre right and thats it.
thanks for all the ideas guys.
Unfortunately not available for at least half a year. You could pass the time with DCUO as preparation though. Has very nice active combat too, and even has a proper Controler role besides tank, healing, DPS.
like raids as in end game? never got that far for a variety of reasons.
plus at the outset it seemed cc wasn't very needed or important in a group. the main reason was the root/mez spells were very short. plus it seemed the tanks could do the same with their aggro catching abilities. so again i didnt feel i was needed.
seemed the game was streamlined for the casual gamer who wanted simplicity, to pwn and phat lewt. and when a group was needed the holy trinity was all that was needed. tank and spank...and heal.
i can see needed debuffing but debuffing is just a form of dps. yawn.
gosh thanks for the suggestions though. keep them coming. tell me where im wrong if i am. what im missing.
I don't think you're wrong, just maybe a little oversimplifying on the topic of how complex tanking and healing can be. Doesn't matter though, you want controller, we'll get you controller!
just asked for a key/buddy invite. no trial. dont want to spend 50 and find out its just another simple game with no cc needed.
well im open to seeing the challenge and complexities of tanking and if they are enough there ill convert.
it just seems to me tanking is: get the best armor. (passive.) get the best buffs (passive). get lots of heals (passive - you don't do it.) spam your "come here mob" spells. (how can you over do that? yes you have to watch your power pool and use the right spell on the right mob.) i guess you have to run to a mob that's going after your healer and spell on him "get off him and on me."
tank crowd controlling is there. i can see it. but its not there to the degree of complexity or challenge as caster crowd controlling. plus add in debuffing and maybe even healing and tanking is too simple.
im intereted in hearing what im missing.
aion sorcerer is the most cc intensive class i've encountered. PVP wise
tell me more. like is it absolutely essential to any group wanting to pvp? are you mezing and rooting? if you don't does your team die and lose?
and not in pve? so like you just need to tank and spank - and heal - in pve? no cc needed really?
thanks for the input.
To be honest I have been looking for something similar ever since DAoC.
A game where the 'holy trinity', the 3 roles that are absolutely needed, are tank, heal and CC. Where DPS is almost an after thought.
A game where the tank and Main Assist are not the same person. Where, whilst it's the tank's job to hold aggro, due to a lack of spammable taunts, someone else picks which target to focus down whilst the tank maddly tries to keep aggro on everything.
I am slowly coming to the conclusion that the my only real option is to spend the money to develop a true successor to DAoC...
The Controller archetype in City of Heroes (or corruptor for villains) is the best example of total crowd control I have ever seen in any MMO, nobody can lock down a mob better than a mind/psi Controller in any other game. A friend of mine who had one of the best psi/mind corruptors (villain) on Virtue server could permanently stunlock the entire Freedom Phalanx, the game's equivalent to the Justice League. This made the Lord Recluse Strike Force much easier because we could pull each member individually. It didn't always work as planned and it was very very very hard and expensive to build your character to be able to do that. It was one of the only few ways to complete that mission, which was the hardest in the game, even harder than the hero's equivalent mission.
i played such a dom character in coh too. but as i described, in mission after mission after mission i could literally do nothing and everyone was fine. everyone could heal themselves. healers could heal others. so ppl could stay alive and deal out mass dps all they wanted. i wasnt needed.
im sure the mission you described exists in coh but how many are like that? how normal is that experience? i found it to be very very rare.
sigh.