I want to be able to get into an active multiplayer environment. With multiple servers that I have to choose between, I want to know which ones are active during the hours that I play. With games that are divided by character level, I'd even want to know how many players were in the same predicament that I am; that is, just starting out.
Instead of informing me of the demographics of their game so that I can find a spot with people in it, it would be nice if game designers would come up with a way to avoid players being scattered all over the place, unable to find anyone to interact with. I think that high population density is the one technical achievement that MMOs should be working to master. Having thousands of characters active in the same visible area is something that I'd really like to see. Instead of clothing simulations, high dynamic range lighting and other things that have nothing to do with MMO gameplay.
I think you hit the nail on the head-at least for what I care about.
It seems like there are two reasons people want to know the game population:
1. "Is the game dying? I don't want to buy a game, pay a subscription, and put the hours in if the game is about to close down."
2. "I like multiplayer, that is why I play MMO's, and I want people to play with."
A lot of the posters are worried about #1, but I care about #2, and a game that solves the problem of player scattering wins our vote. That said, you also see a lot of people comparing the sizes of games with the implicit assumption that "bigger is better."
I remember a multiplayer XBox shooter that had the largest enviornments ever. None of the players could find anyone to shoot! Great idea geniuses!
Another issue is the population by level. If I see a server with a "low population," is that a new server with new players, a server being revitalized with lots of players of all levels, or a dying server with nothing but level 100's? If I want to create a new character, the first or second can be cool, but the last really sucks. When creating a new character I would like to see how many folks of level 1-10 are online. Granted, some crafter/bank characters will throw these numbers off, but it is better than just seeing the raw number.
There are tons for "census" type sites online, just search for them. You'll find that most have consistent readings, and they generally inform you of how they get their data. They will also tell you the projected accuracy of their claims with ratings systems etc. Although they arent the end-all be-all, they give good indications of which MMOs are high/low pop and a good idea of what the numbers are.
And using a census site is always better than coming to a forum pulling numbers out of your ass, lol - which is what sooo many people do.
Actually no matter what methods census sites use to estimte sub numbers I view them all as voodoo science that is little better than pulling them out of your ass. Some of the numbers people guess at are likely to be more accurate.
Be so much easier if companies would just tell us.
Hard to say, considering programs like Xfire that clock how many minutes you devote to any game you are playing. Xfire doesn't give you the exact population as not every single player uses that program. Although being such a popular networking program among gamers it can definitely determine which games are being played the most regularly. For instance when Rift first launched it was ranked number five on their site, and since launch they've landed themselves rank ten, thus players losing interest determining my call on whether or not to buy it.
There are tons for "census" type sites online, just search for them. You'll find that most have consistent readings, and they generally inform you of how they get their data. They will also tell you the projected accuracy of their claims with ratings systems etc. Although they arent the end-all be-all, they give good indications of which MMOs are high/low pop and a good idea of what the numbers are.
And using a census site is always better than coming to a forum pulling numbers out of your ass, lol - which is what sooo many people do.
Actually no matter what methods census sites use to estimte sub numbers I view them all as voodoo science that is little better than pulling them out of your ass. Some of the numbers people guess at are likely to be more accurate.
Be so much easier if companies would just tell us.
Hard to say, considering programs like Xfire that clock how many minutes you devote to any game you are playing. Xfire doesn't give you the exact population as not every single player uses that program. Although being such a popular networking program among gamers it can definitely determine which games are being played the most regularly. For instance when Rift first launched it was ranked number five on their site, and since launch they've landed themselves rank ten, thus players losing interest determining my call on whether or not to buy it.
The problem is the demographic of those who choose to install Xfire. Xfire attracts a very young crowd and does not represent the industry as a whole. So, if Xfire gamers are losing interest in a game, that might be a good thing for the rest of us, because that would point to less immature little bastards to annoy us in game.
There are tons for "census" type sites online, just search for them. You'll find that most have consistent readings, and they generally inform you of how they get their data. They will also tell you the projected accuracy of their claims with ratings systems etc. Although they arent the end-all be-all, they give good indications of which MMOs are high/low pop and a good idea of what the numbers are.
And using a census site is always better than coming to a forum pulling numbers out of your ass, lol - which is what sooo many people do.
Actually no matter what methods census sites use to estimte sub numbers I view them all as voodoo science that is little better than pulling them out of your ass. Some of the numbers people guess at are likely to be more accurate.
Be so much easier if companies would just tell us.
Hard to say, considering programs like Xfire that clock how many minutes you devote to any game you are playing. Xfire doesn't give you the exact population as not every single player uses that program. Although being such a popular networking program among gamers it can definitely determine which games are being played the most regularly. For instance when Rift first launched it was ranked number five on their site, and since launch they've landed themselves rank ten, thus players losing interest determining my call on whether or not to buy it.
Only problem is that you have to be using X-Fire, which hardly anyone does anymore. Sites like mmodata.net, for example, have a scoring system on their data similar to other sites.
A – Confident : Most or all of the data points come from official or other reliable sources and are in line with other numbers and information.
B – Reasonably Confident : Part of the data points come from official or other reliable sources and part of the data points come from estimates, third party sources, unclear official sources or other indirect information.
C – Not too confident : Some of the data points come from official or other reliable sources, many of the data points come from estimates, third party sources, unclear official sources or other indirect information.
D – Unconfident : Most or all of the data points come from estimates, third party sources, unclear official sources or other indirect information.
Again, as I said before there's no real "guarantee" about any of it, but it's generally in-line with other census sites, general news outlets, and information from game owners. Take it for what it's worth, but I've found it to be pretty accurate after doing further research into their numbers. There are many other sites like it, it's just the one I used for the sake of example.
sadly.. SWG only had about 250k subs pre-cu... i think these days its closer to about 30k (best guesstimate) .. if SOE hadnt chased the mythical WoW numbers.. then my guess is.. it would have probably reached the same kind of figures as Eve has (350k) still not WoW numbers.. but.. .. i'd still have been playing it.... still have to say... when it comes to Karma.. Sony seems to be reaping the benefits of its illustrious career lately....
It wasn't, that's only what sandbox fans are dreaming about.
They were bleeding subs, and they were bleeding subs hard to EQ2 and even more so to WoW, that offered content and gameplay that was more to the preference of MMO gamers than SWG offered. On my EQ2 servers we had entire SWG guilds move to EQ2 when it came out, guilds that were the biggest on their SWG server and who were the first to have a fully fledged player city with everything that could be built in it.
Sure, SWG will have still had a hard core of sandbox fans, but the truth is that when those other MMO's came out, that the MMO gamers who don't mind non-sandbox content went en masse to those games.
There's no telling when the dive would stabilize, but with EQ2 and WoW on the scene, SWG was losing an average 10k subs a month, and that was after the initial dive that EQ2's and WOW's launch already caused.
@OP: yeah, companies have become really secretive with figures, the latest example is Rift, where Trion don't even want to announce their sales figures, where as with AoC and WAR and Aion, companies didn't have that problem yet. So it looks like companies are getting even more secretive with the passing of time.
There are some things that can be figured out, but so far most of that is circumstantial and hard to find info anyway.
Most important thing I find the population on the server I'm at. Total subs/players figures of an MMO are fun to know out of curiosity but it's the peak concurrent users of the servers I'm playing at that I'm really interested in. A PCU of 1000+ for weekday evenings and weekend peak times I find healthy enough, 1500+ and it's a bustling, thriving community. Less than 500 and population is becoming dangerously low.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
There are tons for "census" type sites online, just search for them. You'll find that most have consistent readings, and they generally inform you of how they get their data. They will also tell you the projected accuracy of their claims with ratings systems etc. Although they arent the end-all be-all, they give good indications of which MMOs are high/low pop and a good idea of what the numbers are.
And using a census site is always better than coming to a forum pulling numbers out of your ass, lol - which is what sooo many people do.
Actually no matter what methods census sites use to estimte sub numbers I view them all as voodoo science that is little better than pulling them out of your ass. Some of the numbers people guess at are likely to be more accurate.
Be so much easier if companies would just tell us.
Hard to say, considering programs like Xfire that clock how many minutes you devote to any game you are playing. Xfire doesn't give you the exact population as not every single player uses that program. Although being such a popular networking program among gamers it can definitely determine which games are being played the most regularly. For instance when Rift first launched it was ranked number five on their site, and since launch they've landed themselves rank ten, thus players losing interest determining my call on whether or not to buy it.
The problem is the demographic of those who choose to install Xfire. Xfire attracts a very young crowd and does not represent the industry as a whole. So, if Xfire gamers are losing interest in a game, that might be a good thing for the rest of us, because that would point to less immature little bastards to annoy us in game.
Mad's dead on with this. I don't know a gamer within my demographic and circle of acquaintances that uses Xfire. The only time I've ever heard it mentioned in gaming social circles was by some high schoolers at a LAN tourney recently.
Mad's dead on with this. I don't know a gamer within my demographic and circle of acquaintances that uses Xfire. The only time I've ever heard it mentioned in gaming social circles was by some high schoolers at a LAN tourney recently.
I find that the best way is a 'cocktail', a compilation of various sources to get a better feel and picture of a game's population.
With this I mean data from Xfire, Raptr, Steam, MMO specific data like server status and tools like WoW census, to see if there's a correlation and trend similarity in the data retrieved.
And don't forget the PCU, the ingame player headcount, noe of the most reliable methods I've found so far to see how some servers are doing.
Originally posted by Mopar63
For me this is a serious who cares. I mean my play decision is not based on subscriber numb ers but if the game is fun.
Personally, I've found that it's very important how many active players my server has, it has an effect on how thriving and lively a server community is, and it affects grouping, raids, pvp and player events.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I may not care how many subs a game (that I'm playing) has, but I do care if a company takes the time to tell me. Just as I care whether or not I believe them if they do.
I know I'm a bit biased, but I do feel these small things affect the way I perceive a company, and I think that's important.
There are tons for "census" type sites online, just search for them. You'll find that most have consistent readings, and they generally inform you of how they get their data. They will also tell you the projected accuracy of their claims with ratings systems etc. Although they arent the end-all be-all, they give good indications of which MMOs are high/low pop and a good idea of what the numbers are.
And using a census site is always better than coming to a forum pulling numbers out of your ass, lol - which is what sooo many people do.
sadly.. SWG only had about 250k subs pre-cu... i think these days its closer to about 30k (best guesstimate) .. if SOE hadnt chased the mythical WoW numbers.. then my guess is.. it would have probably reached the same kind of figures as Eve has (350k) still not WoW numbers.. but.. .. i'd still have been playing it.... still have to say... when it comes to Karma.. Sony seems to be reaping the benefits of its illustrious career lately....
It wasn't, that's only what sandbox fans are dreaming about.
They were bleeding subs, and they were bleeding subs hard to EQ2 and even more so to WoW, that offered content and gameplay that was more to the preference of MMO gamers than SWG offered. On my EQ2 servers we had entire SWG guilds move to EQ2 when it came out, guilds that were the biggest on their SWG server and who were the first to have a fully fledged player city with everything that could be built in it.
Sure, SWG will have still had a hard core of sandbox fans, but the truth is that when those other MMO's came out, that the MMO gamers who don't mind non-sandbox content went en masse to those games.
There's no telling when the dive would stabilize, but with EQ2 and WoW on the scene, SWG was losing an average 10k subs a month, and that was after the initial dive that EQ2's and WOW's launch already caused So many stories about SWG and nobody surely knows what happened. We can speculate, but it'll be just that. I cant remember a single big guild leaving for WoW or EQ2... but then suddenly CU hit and over night my friendlist was dead. Ingame friends that is, only my bro was playing that I knew IRL. This was on EU-Chimaera if it matters. If it was bleeding subs it was from 'randoms' with no part in the bigger community... which didnt really affect me.
I cant say if SWG had 200k or 400k and it doesnt really matter to me. Population was stable and the community was great. Could it have landed on 100k? Who knows =D Its still my nr1 MMO experience, followed by vanilla WoW.
edit: oh dear messed up with the quoting lol! Red text is mine =D
There are tons for "census" type sites online, just search for them. You'll find that most have consistent readings, and they generally inform you of how they get their data. They will also tell you the projected accuracy of their claims with ratings systems etc. Although they arent the end-all be-all, they give good indications of which MMOs are high/low pop and a good idea of what the numbers are.
And using a census site is always better than coming to a forum pulling numbers out of your ass, lol - which is what sooo many people do.
Those are just the ones I felt like linking to you. There are articles, data sites, and research sites that you can look for on your own.
As I said, you have to take the with a grain of salt and use the comparatively - but the data indicated on most of the charts is consistant with reports, news items, and other information. They are by no means the end-all be-all magic numbers, but they are better than making something up.
Genrally the most trusted are mmodata.net and mmogchart.com.
I'd like the luxury of not caring about how many people are subscribing to a game, but it makes a big difference because it always impacts the amount of support a game will receive. The real thing is that people will misinterpret the numbers if they were provided, using WoW as benchmark saying that games with around 200,000 subs are dead when in fact they can sustain themselves pretty well.
I'd like the luxury of not caring about how many people are subscribing to a game, but it makes a big difference because it always impacts the amount of support a game will receive. The real thing is that people will misinterpret the numbers if they were provided, using WoW as benchmark saying that games with around 200,000 subs are dead when in fact they can sustain themselves pretty well.
I wouldn't say that every other mmo with around 200k subscribers are dead, which is most of them, but just aren't necessarily mainstream appreciated. Just like EVE has 300+ thousand, which bests or is equivalent to most other mmorpgs; I wouldn't call it dead, but just not a mainstream appreciative mmorpg.
The numbers from the afformentioned sites are accurate enough, for me, with the investigation behind them.
So many stories about SWG and nobody surely knows what happened. We can speculate, but it'll be just that. I cant remember a single big guild leaving for WoW or EQ2... but then suddenly CU hit and over night my friendlist was dead. Ingame friends that is, only my bro was playing that I knew IRL. This was on EU-Chimaera if it matters. If it was bleeding subs it was from 'randoms' with no part in the bigger community... which didnt really affect me.
I cant say if SWG had 200k or 400k and it doesnt really matter to me. Population was stable and the community was great. Could it have landed on 100k? Who knows =D Its still my nr1 MMO experience, followed by vanilla WoW.
edit: oh dear messed up with the quoting lol! Red text is mine =D
I guess experiences differ. My first guild in EQ2 was one that consisted mostly of SWG jumpers, apparently they made the jump with several guilds from their SWG server to our EQ2 server when it launched. They were pretty enthusiastic about their time in SWG, yet still they left it. I never really asked why but I guess it probably had to do with a lot of them having played EQ before SWG. As for subs, in the first months after EQ2's and WoW's launch at the end of 2004, SWG lost about 50k subs, which I still find understandable and not strange considering the expectations that were going around at that time for an EQ sequel and a Blizzard MMO.
If those 2 MMO's hadn't come around, SWG probably would have had stabler sub figures for a longer period of time just like it did before those launches, but with 2 such big name MMO's launching and offering a newer and compared to SWG different gameplay experience with more (dev provided) content, it explains the dive that started for SWG sub numbers. In fact a lot of the MMO's experienced a dive of their sub numbers around that time.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
There are tons for "census" type sites online, just search for them. You'll find that most have consistent readings, and they generally inform you of how they get their data. They will also tell you the projected accuracy of their claims with ratings systems etc. Although they arent the end-all be-all, they give good indications of which MMOs are high/low pop and a good idea of what the numbers are.
And using a census site is always better than coming to a forum pulling numbers out of your ass, lol - which is what sooo many people do.
Those are just the ones I felt like linking to you. There are articles, data sites, and research sites that you can look for on your own.
As I said, you have to take the with a grain of salt and use the comparatively - but the data indicated on most of the charts is consistant with reports, news items, and other information. They are by no means the end-all be-all magic numbers, but they are better than making something up.
Genrally the most trusted are mmodata.net and mmogchart.com.
None of those sites have current real online numbers. Point being your original claims are wrong. There are neither 'tons' of sites, nor even ONE site that has real online numbers. In fact only mmodata has even been updated, but the numbers are suspect as there are no sources.
Those are just the ones I felt like linking to you. There are articles, data sites, and research sites that you can look for on your own.
As I said, you have to take the with a grain of salt and use the comparatively - but the data indicated on most of the charts is consistant with reports, news items, and other information. They are by no means the end-all be-all magic numbers, but they are better than making something up.
Genrally the most trusted are mmodata.net and mmogchart.com.
None of those sites have current real online numbers. Point being your original claims are wrong. There are neither 'tons' of sites, nor even ONE site that has real online numbers. In fact only mmodata has even been updated, but the numbers are suspect as there are no sources.
They have the best estimations currently available. Which is what I said. Use your own powers of math to deduce the accuracy by comparison, and try reading some articles on the numbers you happen to question. The general numbers are there, take them with a grain of salt.
And you obviously haven't looked at the pages. Alost all of them cite where they got their information, and the general confidence they have in the numbers.
I have now figured out that you are simply arguing for the sake of arguing, and are unwilling to do any research. I've provided ways to somewhat monitor what is going on in the MMO community, which was the point of this thread. So... have fun, there's the best data that can be afforded. Use it or don't, but people seriously need to quit coming to forums spouting numbers out of their a-holes.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I have now figured out that you are simply arguing for the sake of arguing, and are unwilling to do any research. I've provided ways to somewhat monitor what is going on in the MMO community, which was the point of this thread. So... have fun, there's the best data that can be afforded. Use it or don't, but people seriously need to quit coming to forums spouting numbers out of their a-holes.
Actually, the point of this thread was really just to see if I was alone in my desire for MMOPRG companies to publish actual live server figures like some games did (and still do) in the past.
Apparently not, looks like a lot of folks would prefer to see the real figures, maybe one day we'll get Dev's not afraid to publish them.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Those are just the ones I felt like linking to you. There are articles, data sites, and research sites that you can look for on your own.
As I said, you have to take the with a grain of salt and use the comparatively - but the data indicated on most of the charts is consistant with reports, news items, and other information. They are by no means the end-all be-all magic numbers, but they are better than making something up.
Genrally the most trusted are mmodata.net and mmogchart.com.
None of those sites have current real online numbers. Point being your original claims are wrong. There are neither 'tons' of sites, nor even ONE site that has real online numbers. In fact only mmodata has even been updated, but the numbers are suspect as there are no sources.
They have the best estimations currently available. Which is what I said. Use your own powers of math to deduce the accuracy by comparison, and try reading some articles on the numbers you happen to question. The general numbers are there, take them with a grain of salt.
And you obviously haven't looked at the pages. Alost all of them cite where they got their information, and the general confidence they have in the numbers.
I have now figured out that you are simply arguing for the sake of arguing, and are unwilling to do any research. I've provided ways to somewhat monitor what is going on in the MMO community, which was the point of this thread. So... have fun, there's the best data that can be afforded. Use it or don't, but people seriously need to quit coming to forums spouting numbers out of their a-holes.
You obviously havent looked at the pages. All but one does not have data after 2007. And MMODATA is missing almost every game and no sources. So, contrary to your claims, there are not "tons of sites" with "consistent" data. There is a total lack of information on real numbers of both subscribers and actives.
Originally posted by mCalvert In fact only mmodata has even been updated, but the numbers are suspect as there are no sources.
Only suspect if one claimed that they are real-time immedately available, but not so-much so as a general all-around sustained subscription base.
Why all the anger over the general knowledge that about every mainstream mmo has around 100,000 to 300,000 sustained subs?
Because it shows the developers dilberately hide important information for evaluating a MMO. People do not want to play on dead servers or in dead games.
Comments
I think you hit the nail on the head-at least for what I care about.
It seems like there are two reasons people want to know the game population:
1. "Is the game dying? I don't want to buy a game, pay a subscription, and put the hours in if the game is about to close down."
2. "I like multiplayer, that is why I play MMO's, and I want people to play with."
A lot of the posters are worried about #1, but I care about #2, and a game that solves the problem of player scattering wins our vote. That said, you also see a lot of people comparing the sizes of games with the implicit assumption that "bigger is better."
I remember a multiplayer XBox shooter that had the largest enviornments ever. None of the players could find anyone to shoot! Great idea geniuses!
Another issue is the population by level. If I see a server with a "low population," is that a new server with new players, a server being revitalized with lots of players of all levels, or a dying server with nothing but level 100's? If I want to create a new character, the first or second can be cool, but the last really sucks. When creating a new character I would like to see how many folks of level 1-10 are online. Granted, some crafter/bank characters will throw these numbers off, but it is better than just seeing the raw number.
Hard to say, considering programs like Xfire that clock how many minutes you devote to any game you are playing. Xfire doesn't give you the exact population as not every single player uses that program. Although being such a popular networking program among gamers it can definitely determine which games are being played the most regularly. For instance when Rift first launched it was ranked number five on their site, and since launch they've landed themselves rank ten, thus players losing interest determining my call on whether or not to buy it.
The problem is the demographic of those who choose to install Xfire. Xfire attracts a very young crowd and does not represent the industry as a whole. So, if Xfire gamers are losing interest in a game, that might be a good thing for the rest of us, because that would point to less immature little bastards to annoy us in game.
Only problem is that you have to be using X-Fire, which hardly anyone does anymore. Sites like mmodata.net, for example, have a scoring system on their data similar to other sites.
A – Confident : Most or all of the data points come from official or other reliable sources and are in line with other numbers and information.
B – Reasonably Confident : Part of the data points come from official or other reliable sources and part of the data points come from estimates, third party sources, unclear official sources or other indirect information.
C – Not too confident : Some of the data points come from official or other reliable sources, many of the data points come from estimates, third party sources, unclear official sources or other indirect information.
D – Unconfident : Most or all of the data points come from estimates, third party sources, unclear official sources or other indirect information.
Again, as I said before there's no real "guarantee" about any of it, but it's generally in-line with other census sites, general news outlets, and information from game owners. Take it for what it's worth, but I've found it to be pretty accurate after doing further research into their numbers. There are many other sites like it, it's just the one I used for the sake of example.
They were bleeding subs, and they were bleeding subs hard to EQ2 and even more so to WoW, that offered content and gameplay that was more to the preference of MMO gamers than SWG offered. On my EQ2 servers we had entire SWG guilds move to EQ2 when it came out, guilds that were the biggest on their SWG server and who were the first to have a fully fledged player city with everything that could be built in it.
Sure, SWG will have still had a hard core of sandbox fans, but the truth is that when those other MMO's came out, that the MMO gamers who don't mind non-sandbox content went en masse to those games.
There's no telling when the dive would stabilize, but with EQ2 and WoW on the scene, SWG was losing an average 10k subs a month, and that was after the initial dive that EQ2's and WOW's launch already caused.
@OP: yeah, companies have become really secretive with figures, the latest example is Rift, where Trion don't even want to announce their sales figures, where as with AoC and WAR and Aion, companies didn't have that problem yet. So it looks like companies are getting even more secretive with the passing of time.
There are some things that can be figured out, but so far most of that is circumstantial and hard to find info anyway.
Most important thing I find the population on the server I'm at. Total subs/players figures of an MMO are fun to know out of curiosity but it's the peak concurrent users of the servers I'm playing at that I'm really interested in. A PCU of 1000+ for weekday evenings and weekend peak times I find healthy enough, 1500+ and it's a bustling, thriving community. Less than 500 and population is becoming dangerously low.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Mad's dead on with this. I don't know a gamer within my demographic and circle of acquaintances that uses Xfire. The only time I've ever heard it mentioned in gaming social circles was by some high schoolers at a LAN tourney recently.
Warhammer fanatic since '85.
For me this is a serious who cares. I mean my play decision is not based on subscriber numb ers but if the game is fun.
=============================
I have a soap box and I am not afraid to use it.
I find that the best way is a 'cocktail', a compilation of various sources to get a better feel and picture of a game's population.
With this I mean data from Xfire, Raptr, Steam, MMO specific data like server status and tools like WoW census, to see if there's a correlation and trend similarity in the data retrieved.
And don't forget the PCU, the ingame player headcount, noe of the most reliable methods I've found so far to see how some servers are doing.
Personally, I've found that it's very important how many active players my server has, it has an effect on how thriving and lively a server community is, and it affects grouping, raids, pvp and player events.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
I absolutely dont' care. If the game is fun I play it. Heck, I have a Vanguard sub.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I may not care how many subs a game (that I'm playing) has, but I do care if a company takes the time to tell me. Just as I care whether or not I believe them if they do.
I know I'm a bit biased, but I do feel these small things affect the way I perceive a company, and I think that's important.
Please list these tons of sites.
I cant say if SWG had 200k or 400k and it doesnt really matter to me. Population was stable and the community was great. Could it have landed on 100k? Who knows =D Its still my nr1 MMO experience, followed by vanilla WoW.
edit: oh dear messed up with the quoting lol! Red text is mine =D
Of course I want this kind of info but I can see why they won't disclose any numbers.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Seriously? It's called Google.
http://www.mmodata.net/
http://www.mmogchart.com/
http://mmogdata.voig.com/
http://t-machine.org/index.php/2008/11/23/predicting-player-figures-for-any-online-game-or-mmo/
http://massively.joystiq.com/2007/12/12/mmo-subscriptions-report-who-is-beating-who/
Those are just the ones I felt like linking to you. There are articles, data sites, and research sites that you can look for on your own.
As I said, you have to take the with a grain of salt and use the comparatively - but the data indicated on most of the charts is consistant with reports, news items, and other information. They are by no means the end-all be-all magic numbers, but they are better than making something up.
Genrally the most trusted are mmodata.net and mmogchart.com.
I'd like the luxury of not caring about how many people are subscribing to a game, but it makes a big difference because it always impacts the amount of support a game will receive. The real thing is that people will misinterpret the numbers if they were provided, using WoW as benchmark saying that games with around 200,000 subs are dead when in fact they can sustain themselves pretty well.
I wouldn't say that every other mmo with around 200k subscribers are dead, which is most of them, but just aren't necessarily mainstream appreciated. Just like EVE has 300+ thousand, which bests or is equivalent to most other mmorpgs; I wouldn't call it dead, but just not a mainstream appreciative mmorpg.
The numbers from the afformentioned sites are accurate enough, for me, with the investigation behind them.
I guess experiences differ. My first guild in EQ2 was one that consisted mostly of SWG jumpers, apparently they made the jump with several guilds from their SWG server to our EQ2 server when it launched. They were pretty enthusiastic about their time in SWG, yet still they left it. I never really asked why but I guess it probably had to do with a lot of them having played EQ before SWG. As for subs, in the first months after EQ2's and WoW's launch at the end of 2004, SWG lost about 50k subs, which I still find understandable and not strange considering the expectations that were going around at that time for an EQ sequel and a Blizzard MMO.
If those 2 MMO's hadn't come around, SWG probably would have had stabler sub figures for a longer period of time just like it did before those launches, but with 2 such big name MMO's launching and offering a newer and compared to SWG different gameplay experience with more (dev provided) content, it explains the dive that started for SWG sub numbers. In fact a lot of the MMO's experienced a dive of their sub numbers around that time.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
None of those sites have current real online numbers. Point being your original claims are wrong. There are neither 'tons' of sites, nor even ONE site that has real online numbers. In fact only mmodata has even been updated, but the numbers are suspect as there are no sources.
They have the best estimations currently available. Which is what I said. Use your own powers of math to deduce the accuracy by comparison, and try reading some articles on the numbers you happen to question. The general numbers are there, take them with a grain of salt.
And you obviously haven't looked at the pages. Alost all of them cite where they got their information, and the general confidence they have in the numbers.
I have now figured out that you are simply arguing for the sake of arguing, and are unwilling to do any research. I've provided ways to somewhat monitor what is going on in the MMO community, which was the point of this thread. So... have fun, there's the best data that can be afforded. Use it or don't, but people seriously need to quit coming to forums spouting numbers out of their a-holes.
Only suspect if one claimed that they are real-time immedately available, but not so-much so as a general all-around sustained subscription base.
Why all the anger over the general knowledge that about every mainstream mmo has around 100,000 to 300,000 sustained subs?
I use mmodata.net as a starting reference point as well, although I'm not that foolish to think that the figures have a 100% accuracy.
I'd wish to know how he comes up with the information though, especially the figures that can't be gleaned from MMO company's own statements.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Actually, the point of this thread was really just to see if I was alone in my desire for MMOPRG companies to publish actual live server figures like some games did (and still do) in the past.
Apparently not, looks like a lot of folks would prefer to see the real figures, maybe one day we'll get Dev's not afraid to publish them.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You obviously havent looked at the pages. All but one does not have data after 2007. And MMODATA is missing almost every game and no sources. So, contrary to your claims, there are not "tons of sites" with "consistent" data. There is a total lack of information on real numbers of both subscribers and actives.
Because it shows the developers dilberately hide important information for evaluating a MMO. People do not want to play on dead servers or in dead games.