Originally posted by gainesvilleg Originally posted by Foomerang /sign I think we've gotten to the point here that when someone says "WoW clone", they arent bringing anything insightful to the discussion can be seen as trolling. I mean honestly, when was the last time someone said, "WoW clone" and you thought to yourself, "thats an interesting point"?
No, but it instantly tells me: 1) Instanced dungeons/raids 2) Instanced PVP Battlegrounds 3) Questing focus for leveling 4) Leveling system with level cap 5) Toolbar based combat with cooldowns 6) Tokens for gear/items 7) Reputation for gear/items 8) Gear focus of endgame That two-syllable utterance "WoW-clone" conveys a lot of information. I personally don't take offense to the term, but I'm fine if people use another term like "themepark" to represent the above info. But "themepark" actually doesn't necessarily imply all of the above...
Im glad that youre ok with the term. The problem I have is the other 99% of the forum populace using the term "WoW clone" as a slam against a game or just straight up flame bait. The overwhelming majority of people who coin that phrase are using it in a derogatory manner. Its basically a loophole to get away with saying "this game sucks" without getting moderated for trolling.
There's a group that's going to be super-sensitive about it and read what they want into it no matter what. We can tip toe around them or just move forward and leave them behind. I'd rather do the latter because they're not really contributing to moving forward anyway.
I think it's a flaw that is apparent in both fanbois and haters of the term 'WoW clone' ()
Seems to me that some fanbois of using the term 'WoW clone' are super-sensitive since they're acting all surprised and indignant when they get negative response when they post things like that about an MMO they dislike. I say, get over it. Either people are incredibly dumb NOT to expect negative responses when they use 'WoW clone', or they were going for it and the response is EXACTLY what they wanted to achieve, either to aggravate fans of that WoW-style MMO or to get the message across of their negative opinion and dislike of that MMO.
People on both sides should get over it.
Use the term 'WoW clone', reap the consequences.
If you want a debate to be more reasonable and less polarized, use themepark MMO or say it like 'plays like WoW' or 'gameplay feels like WoW'.
You talk about people being super-sensitive when the term is used, I don't see why users of the 'WoW clone' term should get all butthurt when it evokes negative responses.
I thought it was to some all about evoking controversy and polarisation anyway, forum pvp being what it is and all that
"Reap the consequences"? "Butthurt"? Really? That's what this is going to devolve to?
As for your suggested alternatives:
Alganon is a WOW clone.
Alganon plays like WOW.
There's no difference other than somehow the first one is upsetting you because of a negative connotation that you apply to it. You shouldn't let it upset you, Mav.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I think we've gotten to the point here that when someone says "WoW clone", they arent bringing anything insightful to the discussion can be seen as trolling.
I mean honestly, when was the last time someone said, "WoW clone" and you thought to yourself, "thats an interesting point"?
No, but it instantly tells me:
1) Instanced dungeons/raids
2) Instanced PVP Battlegrounds
3) Questing focus for leveling
4) Leveling system with level cap
5) Toolbar based combat with cooldowns
6) Tokens for gear/items
7) Reputation for gear/items
8) Gear focus of endgame
That two-syllable utterance "WoW-clone" conveys a lot of information. I personally don't take offense to the term, but I'm fine if people use another term like "themepark" to represent the above info. But "themepark" actually doesn't necessarily imply all of the above...
Im glad that youre ok with the term. The problem I have is the other 99% of the forum populace using the term "WoW clone" as a slam against a game or just straight up flame bait.
The overwhelming majority of people who coin that phrase are using it in a derogatory manner. Its basically a loophole to get away with saying "this game sucks" without getting moderated for trolling.
On a forum where the most popular threads seem to have many posters here agreeing that the genre is stagnant and everything is just like WOW, it seems odd to read the claim such threads would result in moderation of any kind.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Why is it considered "trolling" to say a game sucks? Maybe it does, and the reason is basically because it's way too similar to other games that came before it.
"Reap the consequences"? "Butthurt"? Really? That's what this is going to devolve to?
Yeah, I thought I keep my lingo in line with the level of discussion and what fan(boi) of the 'WoW clone' term would get, no offence
As for your suggested alternatives:
Alganon is a WOW clone.
Alganon plays like WOW.
There's no difference other than somehow the first one is upsetting you because of a negative connotation that you apply to it. You shouldn't let it upset you, Mav.
Oh, I'm not upset, I find the whole discussion funny actually, also the way how (some) themepark critics or people who dislike some such themepark MMO's are squirming to try and add some legitimacy or validity or whatever to the term 'WoW clone'.
I mean, if there's no difference to you, then why are you not the one saying 'Alganon plays like WoW' instead of saying 'WoW clone'. See? That argument of being reasonable and objective works both ways. Instead most haters/critics will stubbornly refuse to say it like 'plays like WoW' or something like that, and try to come up with all kinds of reasons, just to use the term 'WoW clone'. Heh.
Shrug.
I agree with what Foomerang said:
'Im glad that youre ok with the term. The problem I have is the other 99% of the forum populace using the term "WoW clone" as a slam against a game or just straight up flame bait.
The overwhelming majority of people who coin that phrase are using it in a derogatory manner. Its basically a loophole to get away with saying "this game sucks" without getting moderated for trolling.'
For the rest, I think everything that could be said about it I've already said, it's just a discussion running around in circles with no side willing to concede any ground or understanding (of course my viewpoint is the more reasonable one ), so I'll leave it at this.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
For the rest, I think everything that could be said about it I've already said, it's just a discussion running around in circles with no side willing to concede any ground or understanding (of course my viewpoint is the more reasonable one ), so I'll leave it at this.
I see what you did there :P
I've reached the point where I ignore the usage of the phrase "Wow-clone". It's flamebait.
Why is it considered "trolling" to say a game sucks? Maybe it does, and the reason is basically because it's way too similar to other games that came before it.
It's not trolling to explain why someone thinks the game sucks.
it is trolling to say "the game sucks" with not another word. With no actual explanation all one does is draw a line in the sand.
It becomes no more than one's Id exploding on the page so that it elicits a reaction.
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Who cares what people call it, is it really that much better to just have everyone call said game a generic piece of junk that they've played 100 times before and don't want to play again, but keep getting everytime they're promised something new because every developer is too afraid to wander away from the successful formula that is in actuality only successful for a relative few games that have already monopolized the market insteadof trying something that would be new or even more fun,expansive, and involved than an outdated system that existed because tech wasn't advaned in teh first place- and if said game actualy took over the market would just be the new wow clone that gets cloned in the future causing future strife and petitions to stop calling games "x-mmo" clones?
...but then again, I guess just calling it a generic piece of junk is much more accurate,but I don't really care.
Im going to write a blog that goes into detail about every cliche, overused, and weather-beaten feature in mmos. It will have anywhere from 10-15 bulleted points.
I am going to name the title of that blog "Slorng"
From here on, whenever Im on these forums and I see a topic about an mmo that I dont particularly care for, Im going to chime in and say "SLORNG!"
Yeah. Its kind of like that. Not everyone shares your reference points. Not everyone has your likes/dislikes. Not everyone has experienced WoW the same way as you. So do us all a favor. Expand upon your opinions instead of grunting out a 2 word scapegoat, expecting us to identify or translate how you really feel.
just saying a game is a WoW clone isn't very helpful
I could see pointing out similarities between a game and WoW
but just saying its a clone provides little insight into the actual game.
like lots of games used (use still?) the unreal engine but I've seen few people say the multitude of games are unreal clones
I'm sure there are better examples out there but that one came to mind first.
Maybe a game incorpates many mmo concepts that WoW used.. but if it was a straight up clone.. I'm sure blizzard would have lawyers all over the "alleged" clone.
WOW clone means nothing to a person who hasnt played World of warcraft lol
That would be a rare person indeed lol
I'm pretty sure most people have at least tried it.. even if just to confirm they would hate it
There are those die hards that take the "head in the sand" approach to anything super popular though so maybe you are referring to those people.
(for the record I was never able to get past the free trial on WoW.. wasn't for me so I'm not a rabid fanboi >_>)
The good news is that if they've played any modern MMORPG since WOW launched they've pretty much played WOW so its all fine.
I doubt there's many readers of this forum that don't understand immediately what is meant by the term WOW clone, but for those who don't there are countless earlier threads where people (such as I) have waxed elequoent with examples of why games get deemed WOW clones. (Maybe MMORPG.com should just create a sticky thread for future reference) We just can't be bothered to list the reasons out every single time.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I doubt there's many readers of this forum that don't understand immediately what is meant by the term WOW clone, but for those who don't there are countless earlier threads where people (such as I) have waxed elequoent with examples of why games get deemed WOW clones. (Maybe MMORPG.com should just create a sticky thread for future reference) We just can't be bothered to list the reasons out every single time.
No need to provide any lists at all. 'WoW clone' means nothing more than themepark MMO that feels too much like WoW to the person crying 'WoW clone'.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
1) It doesn't matter what everyone else calls it, it only matters what it actually is. And if you actually know what it is, it doesn't matter if someone calls it a WoW clone.
2) "WoW Clone" is a fast an easy way to describe a game
open for criticism, but i think those two things cover why it doesn't matter that people call games WoW clones.
The reason I guess it is negative towards that game is if it really isn't a WoW clone. LOTRO is not a WoW clone, yet is referred to as such pretty often. Thus leading to misinformation for uninformed people who want to know about LOTRO. This WoW clone reference could make them instantly not even look at the game, meaning a loss of players.
Does that actually happen? Yea probably. Is it enough to make a difference for anyone? Not sure how we could figure that out, perhaps a poll?
Comments
1) Instanced dungeons/raids
2) Instanced PVP Battlegrounds
3) Questing focus for leveling
4) Leveling system with level cap
5) Toolbar based combat with cooldowns
6) Tokens for gear/items
7) Reputation for gear/items
8) Gear focus of endgame
That two-syllable utterance "WoW-clone" conveys a lot of information. I personally don't take offense to the term, but I'm fine if people use another term like "themepark" to represent the above info. But "themepark" actually doesn't necessarily imply all of the above...
Im glad that youre ok with the term. The problem I have is the other 99% of the forum populace using the term "WoW clone" as a slam against a game or just straight up flame bait.
The overwhelming majority of people who coin that phrase are using it in a derogatory manner. Its basically a loophole to get away with saying "this game sucks" without getting moderated for trolling.
"Reap the consequences"? "Butthurt"? Really? That's what this is going to devolve to?
As for your suggested alternatives:
Alganon is a WOW clone.
Alganon plays like WOW.
There's no difference other than somehow the first one is upsetting you because of a negative connotation that you apply to it. You shouldn't let it upset you, Mav.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
On a forum where the most popular threads seem to have many posters here agreeing that the genre is stagnant and everything is just like WOW, it seems odd to read the claim such threads would result in moderation of any kind.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
EQ is quest driven now. It didn't used to be. They changed it to be like WoW. EQ = WoW clone.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Why is it considered "trolling" to say a game sucks? Maybe it does, and the reason is basically because it's way too similar to other games that came before it.
Oh, I'm not upset, I find the whole discussion funny actually, also the way how (some) themepark critics or people who dislike some such themepark MMO's are squirming to try and add some legitimacy or validity or whatever to the term 'WoW clone'.
I mean, if there's no difference to you, then why are you not the one saying 'Alganon plays like WoW' instead of saying 'WoW clone'. See? That argument of being reasonable and objective works both ways. Instead most haters/critics will stubbornly refuse to say it like 'plays like WoW' or something like that, and try to come up with all kinds of reasons, just to use the term 'WoW clone'. Heh.
Shrug.
I agree with what Foomerang said:
'Im glad that youre ok with the term. The problem I have is the other 99% of the forum populace using the term "WoW clone" as a slam against a game or just straight up flame bait.
The overwhelming majority of people who coin that phrase are using it in a derogatory manner. Its basically a loophole to get away with saying "this game sucks" without getting moderated for trolling.'
For the rest, I think everything that could be said about it I've already said, it's just a discussion running around in circles with no side willing to concede any ground or understanding (of course my viewpoint is the more reasonable one
), so I'll leave it at this.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I see what you did there :P
I've reached the point where I ignore the usage of the phrase "Wow-clone". It's flamebait.
It's not trolling to explain why someone thinks the game sucks.
it is trolling to say "the game sucks" with not another word. With no actual explanation all one does is draw a line in the sand.
It becomes no more than one's Id exploding on the page so that it elicits a reaction.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Who cares what people call it, is it really that much better to just have everyone call said game a generic piece of junk that they've played 100 times before and don't want to play again, but keep getting everytime they're promised something new because every developer is too afraid to wander away from the successful formula that is in actuality only successful for a relative few games that have already monopolized the market insteadof trying something that would be new or even more fun,expansive, and involved than an outdated system that existed because tech wasn't advaned in teh first place- and if said game actualy took over the market would just be the new wow clone that gets cloned in the future causing future strife and petitions to stop calling games "x-mmo" clones?
...but then again, I guess just calling it a generic piece of junk is much more accurate,but I don't really care.
if some one wants to use the phrase "wow-clone"...so what!!!!!
better to spend your time looking for ways to revamp uses of phrases like""oh that's gay" or misuse of "GAY" in games like Wow.
what a "gay" idea this is about ridding "wow-clone" from the forums.
i'm like wow.
Nah, I'm not really up for removing terms just because it gets some peoples panties in a knot.
*hypothetical situation:
Im going to write a blog that goes into detail about every cliche, overused, and weather-beaten feature in mmos. It will have anywhere from 10-15 bulleted points.
I am going to name the title of that blog "Slorng"
From here on, whenever Im on these forums and I see a topic about an mmo that I dont particularly care for, Im going to chime in and say "SLORNG!"
Yeah. Its kind of like that. Not everyone shares your reference points. Not everyone has your likes/dislikes. Not everyone has experienced WoW the same way as you. So do us all a favor. Expand upon your opinions instead of grunting out a 2 word scapegoat, expecting us to identify or translate how you really feel.
Wont happen, especially since Rift was released
You're a WoW clone.
Trammies need to stop polluting the MMORPG landscape. They already have enough games in which to emote hugs and sell garbage by the banks.
WOW clone means nothing to a person who hasnt played World of warcraft lol
First get the developers to stop making WoW clones.....then we'll talk.
I would like to petition to remove any post that complains or talks about WOW outside their own forums, same goes for TOR and GW2 threads.
I agree with the OP
just saying a game is a WoW clone isn't very helpful
I could see pointing out similarities between a game and WoW
but just saying its a clone provides little insight into the actual game.
like lots of games used (use still?) the unreal engine but I've seen few people say the multitude of games are unreal clones
I'm sure there are better examples out there but that one came to mind first.
Maybe a game incorpates many mmo concepts that WoW used.. but if it was a straight up clone.. I'm sure blizzard would have lawyers all over the "alleged" clone.
That would be a rare person indeed lol
I'm pretty sure most people have at least tried it.. even if just to confirm they would hate it
There are those die hards that take the "head in the sand" approach to anything super popular though so maybe you are referring to those people.
(for the record I was never able to get past the free trial on WoW.. wasn't for me so I'm not a rabid fanboi >_>)
The good news is that if they've played any modern MMORPG since WOW launched they've pretty much played WOW so its all fine.
I doubt there's many readers of this forum that don't understand immediately what is meant by the term WOW clone, but for those who don't there are countless earlier threads where people (such as I) have waxed elequoent with examples of why games get deemed WOW clones. (Maybe MMORPG.com should just create a sticky thread for future reference) We just can't be bothered to list the reasons out every single time.
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
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No need to provide any lists at all. 'WoW clone' means nothing more than themepark MMO that feels too much like WoW to the person crying 'WoW clone'.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
We need to come up with a third term for EQ1 and Vanguard types which don't seem to completely fit with Themepark or Sandbox. Themebox? lol
Oldschool MMO's
And for the sandbox themepark hybrids, there's sandpark
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
1) It doesn't matter what everyone else calls it, it only matters what it actually is. And if you actually know what it is, it doesn't matter if someone calls it a WoW clone.
2) "WoW Clone" is a fast an easy way to describe a game
open for criticism, but i think those two things cover why it doesn't matter that people call games WoW clones.
The reason I guess it is negative towards that game is if it really isn't a WoW clone. LOTRO is not a WoW clone, yet is referred to as such pretty often. Thus leading to misinformation for uninformed people who want to know about LOTRO. This WoW clone reference could make them instantly not even look at the game, meaning a loss of players.
Does that actually happen? Yea probably. Is it enough to make a difference for anyone? Not sure how we could figure that out, perhaps a poll?