Which players do they listen to? Every decision decision will cut their potential subscriber base AND I swear this is the only genre where no one can agree on a single detail.
So who do they listen to?
Venge
this is a very good point.
I'd say listen to them ALL, but cherry pick and implement your mechanic to meet your goal. It's your(as a Dev) game after all, but making a game in a vaccum is dangerous and you may end up the only one playing it,..heh.
From a lazy ignorant armchair point of view, I suspect "they" listen more to Dollars and figures to determine what would make a good game.
Instead of;
We've played all these MMOs and talked to tons of people and poured over what's out there in terms of ideas, opinions, requests, and based on that, came up with a great mechanic that we think the players will have fun with.
we get;
WoW gets this much money and has this many players?! Whatever that is,...Do that!
I had a thread of a MMO that really looks and describes features that will revolutionize the genre, or at the very least bring back the UO + DAoC feeling, which would be new but I thought awesome.
The thread disappeared though, so I guess I didn't post it right so it never worked and I don't want to post it again after all of those images.
It was cool though, the developer talked about npc's with intelligence, RvR, large-scale, UO style graphics, skill based create-your-own classes, a huge focus on crafting being vital to the game, playable monsters, permadeath but a fast development, player dungeons to rescue your character, and alot of just awesome stuff.
IMHO we need some innovative developer to break the MMORPG mold and finally abandon the much modified and somewhat copied models of EQ and moreso WoW.
When you really think about it, even RIFT is just the same old **** with a different wrapper.
I do give them credit for avoiding many of WoWs pitfalls and some of the innovation, but its nothing ground breaking.
At level 50, I am bored to tears, and each world event is just more cookie cutter than the one before it.
Thus, I wish the new young developers of the world...no....I am begging these young lions to please develop something ground breaking and more fun than the current crop of same old same old MMORPGs.
Your post repeats that you want something different but you do not state what you want different. What do you want developers to create for you. The common answer is "that's not my job. The devs are paid to figure that out," but that's a cop out. Whether someone is paid to create something for you or not, it doesn't change the fact that you need to give them an idea of what you are looking for.
What do you want changed?
What do you want expanded on?
Note: "Immersive" is just as useless as "innovative" when relaying what you want.
The point of the post was obviously not meant to create new ideas by itself. Its more a pleading to all the developers out there with new ideas, fresh ideas, to get going and create something new and innovative for us!
I do believe fun can be created for me and for the OP without our specific input on what fun would be. After all, there were no developers around asking me if I would enjoy super mario, but I sure did none the less.
That's the million dollar question right there, how should they be done? Ask 15 people, and you'll get 15 very different answers. Therein lies the problem, there's no perfect MMO for the masses, there's only what many will accept or what many will deny.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Which players do they listen to? Every decision decision will cut their potential subscriber base AND I swear this is the only genre where no one can agree on a single detail.
So who do they listen to?
Venge
Theres common threads and ideas that have mass appeal. Its not hard to find.
Which players do they listen to? Every decision decision will cut their potential subscriber base AND I swear this is the only genre where no one can agree on a single detail.
So who do they listen to?
Venge
Theres common threads and ideas that have mass appeal. Its not hard to find.
Ah yes, there are common threads that appeal to the masses, but they've been done to death at this point.
If you want to make something new you have to break new ground and finding a place to start is difficult. What is the future? Is the future action oriented gameplay (tera, blade and soul, etc)? Is the future political (Eve)? Is the future fantasy or sci-fi? Sandbox or themepark? Somewhere in between? What class system is the future? Should raids change? If so, how?
I can go on and on and on with these. I have answers to most of them, but they aren't the answers everyone would be looking for.
IMHO we need some innovative developer to break the MMORPG mold and finally abandon the much modified and somewhat copied models of EQ and moreso WoW.
Funny thing is, those two you mention has brought more invention to mmorps than any other mmorpg.
All other games, would be hard pressed to not copy alot of those features because it is proven to work.
Invention requires much work and taking the chance that player wont like it, and as long as new games think they need to implement everything eq or wow has plus beeing inventive, then the result is naturally poor quality.
By Innovative people often mean a revolutionary change, and that is just not likely to happen .. the revolution is over it already happened and is now called mmorpg.
However, I think what players really want is a developer with some guts, who makes a game based on a vision (making money is not a vision) and follow that vision - Fail or succeed. A developer who thinks like a gamer and therefore can make stuff that works and leave bull out of their game. A developer with love for their work, love equals quality and that will always show.
Visions and then actions matching those visions is what we need.
IMHO we need some innovative developer to break the MMORPG mold and finally abandon the much modified and somewhat copied models of EQ and moreso WoW.
Funny thing is, those two you mention has brought more invention to mmorps than any other mmorpg.
Uhhh...what? EQ brought a lot of new ideas to the table because it was the first 3D MMO.
WoW brought a grand total of 0 new inventions and ideas to the table. Sorry.
And no, MMOs of the past didn't copy EQ, they either did something completely different (SWG, AC) or heavily built upon it and created something entirely new and never before seen (DAoC). And guess what, they were successful for it, and grew over time.
The only thing that needs to change is endgame for the most part. I like the WoW system of leveling, it's the endgame grind that gets old. which leads me to saying Look for ArcheAge. It looks to me like the game I've been wanting, a combo of UO with WoW basically.
I am looking forward to Archeage too, it looks like it has the right mix, the freedom and complexity of a sandbox and the accessibility of a themepark MMO
The only thing that needs to change is endgame for the most part. I like the WoW system of leveling, it's the endgame grind that gets old. which leads me to saying Look for ArcheAge. It looks to me like the game I've been wanting, a combo of UO with WoW basically.
I am looking forward to Archeage too, it looks like it has the right mix, the freedom and complexity of a sandbox and the accessibility of a themepark MMO
God no. The WoW system of leveling is the most boring system to date. Do you seriously enjoy running from hub to hub by yourself following a dotted line to get 5 wolf tails over and over again?
I'd rather have an immersive world where the quests were something to get excited about, and a game that encouraged people to group up and explore. I can't get into ANY MMOs these days because they all have the same bs "walk up to the guy with the glowing mark over his head, click yes, follow to waypoint on map, kill 5 things, come back until level 50". It's monotonous, its anti social, its uninspired, it's boring.
I had a thread of a MMO that really looks and describes features that will revolutionize the genre, or at the very least bring back the UO + DAoC feeling, which would be new but I thought awesome.
The thread disappeared though, so I guess I didn't post it right so it never worked and I don't want to post it again after all of those images.
It was cool though, the developer talked about npc's with intelligence, RvR, large-scale, UO style graphics, skill based create-your-own classes, a huge focus on crafting being vital to the game, playable monsters, permadeath but a fast development, player dungeons to rescue your character, and alot of just awesome stuff.
If you use the search(f) in the relevant sub-forum you posted it in, should be able to dig it up again? Then again it does sound like those "buzz" words all over again! : p
I'm guessing to attrack players, devs put a lot of lights in their mmos... when they add some darkness too that's when we'll see some real online worlds. Perhaps EvE does this already?
The only thing that needs to change is endgame for the most part. I like the WoW system of leveling, it's the endgame grind that gets old. which leads me to saying Look for ArcheAge. It looks to me like the game I've been wanting, a combo of UO with WoW basically.
I am looking forward to Archeage too, it looks like it has the right mix, the freedom and complexity of a sandbox and the accessibility of a themepark MMO
God no. The WoW system of leveling is the most boring system to date. Do you seriously enjoy running from hub to hub by yourself following a dotted line to get 5 wolf tails over and over again?
I'd rather have an immersive world where the quests were something to get excited about, and a game that encouraged people to group up and explore. I can't get into ANY MMOs these days because they all have the same bs "walk up to the guy with the glowing mark over his head, click yes, follow to waypoint on map, kill 5 things, come back until level 50". It's monotonous, its anti social, its uninspired, it's boring.
When was the last time you did a WoW quest hub. WoW's quests are fun and different. Try doing the What really happened the day Deathwing came in Badlands, or the entire quest line for horde in Stonetalon Mountains. So, to answer your question, hell yes I enjoy running from quest hub to quest hub doing those quests. For my leveling purposes. I've played every other MMO out there and none of them made my leveling experience that fun.
The only thing that needs to change is endgame for the most part. I like the WoW system of leveling, it's the endgame grind that gets old. which leads me to saying Look for ArcheAge. It looks to me like the game I've been wanting, a combo of UO with WoW basically.
I am looking forward to Archeage too, it looks like it has the right mix, the freedom and complexity of a sandbox and the accessibility of a themepark MMO
God no. The WoW system of leveling is the most boring system to date. Do you seriously enjoy running from hub to hub by yourself following a dotted line to get 5 wolf tails over and over again?
I'd rather have an immersive world where the quests were something to get excited about, and a game that encouraged people to group up and explore. I can't get into ANY MMOs these days because they all have the same bs "walk up to the guy with the glowing mark over his head, click yes, follow to waypoint on map, kill 5 things, come back until level 50". It's monotonous, its anti social, its uninspired, it's boring.
When was the last time you did a WoW quest hub. WoW's quests are fun and different. Try doing the What really happened the day Deathwing came in Badlands, or the entire quest line for horde in Stonetalon Mountains. So, to answer your question, hell yes I enjoy running from quest hub to quest hub doing those quests. For my leveling purposes. I've played every other MMO out there and none of them made my leveling experience that fun.
I'm sorry, but I'd rather not force myself to do 300 boring quests to get to the 10 or so good ones. I'd much rather just have more than one way to level up, or a way that encourages socializing, and do quests when I want a fun interesting quest! Is that really so hard to understand?
The only thing that needs to change is endgame for the most part. I like the WoW system of leveling, it's the endgame grind that gets old. which leads me to saying Look for ArcheAge. It looks to me like the game I've been wanting, a combo of UO with WoW basically.
I am looking forward to Archeage too, it looks like it has the right mix, the freedom and complexity of a sandbox and the accessibility of a themepark MMO
God no. The WoW system of leveling is the most boring system to date. Do you seriously enjoy running from hub to hub by yourself following a dotted line to get 5 wolf tails over and over again?
I'd rather have an immersive world where the quests were something to get excited about, and a game that encouraged people to group up and explore. I can't get into ANY MMOs these days because they all have the same bs "walk up to the guy with the glowing mark over his head, click yes, follow to waypoint on map, kill 5 things, come back until level 50". It's monotonous, its anti social, its uninspired, it's boring.
When was the last time you did a WoW quest hub. WoW's quests are fun and different. Try doing the What really happened the day Deathwing came in Badlands, or the entire quest line for horde in Stonetalon Mountains. So, to answer your question, hell yes I enjoy running from quest hub to quest hub doing those quests. For my leveling purposes. I've played every other MMO out there and none of them made my leveling experience that fun.
I'm sorry, but I'd rather not force myself to do 300 boring quests to get to the 10 or so good ones. I'd much rather just have more than one way to level up, or a way that encourages socializing, and do quests when I want a fun interesting quest! Is that really so hard to understand?
There are alternate ways to level up in WoW. You can grind mobs. You can run dungeons. You can harvest. You can PVP. Is that really so hard to understand that I prefer questing? You want non questing, there are tons of pre WoW games to suit your bill.
And something tells me the OP's idea of an MMO is not necessarily this instanced stuff,..
if I remember the original GuildWars,..or am I thinking of Diablo?
Originally posted by firefly2003
Originally posted by UnleadedRev
IMHO we need some innovative developer to break the MMORPG mold and finally abandon the much modified and somewhat copied models of EQ and moreso WoW.
When you really think about it, even RIFT is just the same old **** with a different wrapper.
I do give them credit for avoiding many of WoWs pitfalls and some of the innovation, but its nothing ground breaking.
At level 50, I am bored to tears, and each world event is just more cookie cutter than the one before it.
Thus, I wish the new young developers of the world...no....I am begging these young lions to please develop something ground breaking and more fun than the current crop of same old same old MMORPGs.
Give me 200 million US Dollars and 6 yrs and Ill give you your dream...
no no,...give me 100million and 6 yrs and I will do it!
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
The only thing that needs to change is endgame for the most part. I like the WoW system of leveling, it's the endgame grind that gets old. which leads me to saying Look for ArcheAge. It looks to me like the game I've been wanting, a combo of UO with WoW basically.
I am looking forward to Archeage too, it looks like it has the right mix, the freedom and complexity of a sandbox and the accessibility of a themepark MMO
God no. The WoW system of leveling is the most boring system to date. Do you seriously enjoy running from hub to hub by yourself following a dotted line to get 5 wolf tails over and over again?
I'd rather have an immersive world where the quests were something to get excited about, and a game that encouraged people to group up and explore. I can't get into ANY MMOs these days because they all have the same bs "walk up to the guy with the glowing mark over his head, click yes, follow to waypoint on map, kill 5 things, come back until level 50". It's monotonous, its anti social, its uninspired, it's boring.
When was the last time you did a WoW quest hub. WoW's quests are fun and different. Try doing the What really happened the day Deathwing came in Badlands, or the entire quest line for horde in Stonetalon Mountains. So, to answer your question, hell yes I enjoy running from quest hub to quest hub doing those quests. For my leveling purposes. I've played every other MMO out there and none of them made my leveling experience that fun.
I'm sorry, but I'd rather not force myself to do 300 boring quests to get to the 10 or so good ones. I'd much rather just have more than one way to level up, or a way that encourages socializing, and do quests when I want a fun interesting quest! Is that really so hard to understand?
There are alternate ways to level up in WoW. You can grind mobs. You can run dungeons. You can harvest. You can PVP. Is that really so hard to understand that I prefer questing? You want non questing, there are tons of pre WoW games to suit your bill.
If there were a ton of pre WoW games, the core MMO demographic would be playing them. There isn't. And no, grinding and dungeons are not viable ways to level up in WoW. Sure, you can get there, eventually, but the entire game is focused around you grinding quests. And, if I ever wanted to do those half dozen neat quests, I'd STILL have to grind through all the pointless ones first.
Comments
this is a very good point.
I'd say listen to them ALL, but cherry pick and implement your mechanic to meet your goal. It's your(as a Dev) game after all, but making a game in a vaccum is dangerous and you may end up the only one playing it,..heh.
From a lazy ignorant armchair point of view, I suspect "they" listen more to Dollars and figures to determine what would make a good game.
Instead of;
We've played all these MMOs and talked to tons of people and poured over what's out there in terms of ideas, opinions, requests, and based on that, came up with a great mechanic that we think the players will have fun with.
we get;
WoW gets this much money and has this many players?! Whatever that is,...Do that!
I had a thread of a MMO that really looks and describes features that will revolutionize the genre, or at the very least bring back the UO + DAoC feeling, which would be new but I thought awesome.
The thread disappeared though, so I guess I didn't post it right so it never worked and I don't want to post it again after all of those images.
It was cool though, the developer talked about npc's with intelligence, RvR, large-scale, UO style graphics, skill based create-your-own classes, a huge focus on crafting being vital to the game, playable monsters, permadeath but a fast development, player dungeons to rescue your character, and alot of just awesome stuff.
The point of the post was obviously not meant to create new ideas by itself. Its more a pleading to all the developers out there with new ideas, fresh ideas, to get going and create something new and innovative for us!
I do believe fun can be created for me and for the OP without our specific input on what fun would be. After all, there were no developers around asking me if I would enjoy super mario, but I sure did none the less.
That's the million dollar question right there, how should they be done? Ask 15 people, and you'll get 15 very different answers. Therein lies the problem, there's no perfect MMO for the masses, there's only what many will accept or what many will deny.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Theres common threads and ideas that have mass appeal. Its not hard to find.
Ah yes, there are common threads that appeal to the masses, but they've been done to death at this point.
If you want to make something new you have to break new ground and finding a place to start is difficult. What is the future? Is the future action oriented gameplay (tera, blade and soul, etc)? Is the future political (Eve)? Is the future fantasy or sci-fi? Sandbox or themepark? Somewhere in between? What class system is the future? Should raids change? If so, how?
I can go on and on and on with these. I have answers to most of them, but they aren't the answers everyone would be looking for.
Funny thing is, those two you mention has brought more invention to mmorps than any other mmorpg.
All other games, would be hard pressed to not copy alot of those features because it is proven to work.
Invention requires much work and taking the chance that player wont like it, and as long as new games think they need to implement everything eq or wow has plus beeing inventive, then the result is naturally poor quality.
By Innovative people often mean a revolutionary change, and that is just not likely to happen .. the revolution is over it already happened and is now called mmorpg.
However, I think what players really want is a developer with some guts, who makes a game based on a vision (making money is not a vision) and follow that vision - Fail or succeed. A developer who thinks like a gamer and therefore can make stuff that works and leave bull out of their game. A developer with love for their work, love equals quality and that will always show.
Visions and then actions matching those visions is what we need.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
To be honest, it doesn't take someone to really think about it. It just takes someone 2 minutes of playing the game. Same UI even.
Darkfall Travelogues!
Uhhh...what? EQ brought a lot of new ideas to the table because it was the first 3D MMO.
WoW brought a grand total of 0 new inventions and ideas to the table. Sorry.
And no, MMOs of the past didn't copy EQ, they either did something completely different (SWG, AC) or heavily built upon it and created something entirely new and never before seen (DAoC). And guess what, they were successful for it, and grew over time.
Darkfall Travelogues!
I am looking forward to Archeage too, it looks like it has the right mix, the freedom and complexity of a sandbox and the accessibility of a themepark MMO
God no. The WoW system of leveling is the most boring system to date. Do you seriously enjoy running from hub to hub by yourself following a dotted line to get 5 wolf tails over and over again?
I'd rather have an immersive world where the quests were something to get excited about, and a game that encouraged people to group up and explore. I can't get into ANY MMOs these days because they all have the same bs "walk up to the guy with the glowing mark over his head, click yes, follow to waypoint on map, kill 5 things, come back until level 50". It's monotonous, its anti social, its uninspired, it's boring.
Darkfall Travelogues!
If you use the search(f) in the relevant sub-forum you posted it in, should be able to dig it up again? Then again it does sound like those "buzz" words all over again! : p
I'm guessing to attrack players, devs put a lot of lights in their mmos... when they add some darkness too that's when we'll see some real online worlds. Perhaps EvE does this already?
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
When was the last time you did a WoW quest hub. WoW's quests are fun and different. Try doing the What really happened the day Deathwing came in Badlands, or the entire quest line for horde in Stonetalon Mountains. So, to answer your question, hell yes I enjoy running from quest hub to quest hub doing those quests. For my leveling purposes. I've played every other MMO out there and none of them made my leveling experience that fun.
I read the interview of SW:TOR Lead Designer --> Disappointed
I read the interview of RIFT: Planes of Telara Lead Designer (prior to launch) --> Disappointed
I read the interview of Guild Wars 2 lead designer --> Skeptical
I read the inteview of World of Darkness Lead Designer --> Win!
World of Darkness is going to be closest to what I'm looking for from an MMORPG.
I'm sorry, but I'd rather not force myself to do 300 boring quests to get to the 10 or so good ones. I'd much rather just have more than one way to level up, or a way that encourages socializing, and do quests when I want a fun interesting quest! Is that really so hard to understand?
Darkfall Travelogues!
There are alternate ways to level up in WoW. You can grind mobs. You can run dungeons. You can harvest. You can PVP. Is that really so hard to understand that I prefer questing? You want non questing, there are tons of pre WoW games to suit your bill.
Give me $1,000,000,000.00.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
If there were a ton of pre WoW games, the core MMO demographic would be playing them. There isn't. And no, grinding and dungeons are not viable ways to level up in WoW. Sure, you can get there, eventually, but the entire game is focused around you grinding quests. And, if I ever wanted to do those half dozen neat quests, I'd STILL have to grind through all the pointless ones first.
Darkfall Travelogues!