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Should RIft's developers Trion, make the LFD tool cross server?

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  • Endo13Endo13 Member Posts: 187

    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    Should RIft's developers Trion, make the LFD tool cross server?

    I seen many arguments against the tool, but also seen some great support for the tool as well.

    Adding a single shard LFD tool hasnt changed /solved the issues many people faces before the tool was introduced.

    People say, that LFD tool kills the community in WoW. But wasnt these same people saying WoW's Community was already dead before the LFD tool was introduced? So how can they blame the tool than?

    makes no sense. But if some people dont support the tool, are they forced to use it and pug? Wouldnt these people normally not Pug in the first place. So how would a Pug Ralated tool effect them?

    You missed the best option:

    x I do not support LFD queue tools in any way shape or form.

    But yes, making it cross server is definitely going to make it worse. Any chance at all for the queue tool to not turn players into complete asshats is gone with this addition.

    Also, you're wrong about:

    "People say, that LFD tool kills the community in WoW. But wasnt these same people saying WoW's Community was already dead before the LFD tool was introduced? So how can they blame the tool than?"

    It wasn't the same people. It never is the same people.

    WoW's community wasn't great before the dungeon queue tool but there is absolutely no question that the tool made it much worse and destroyed any last vestiges of community entirely.

    That being said, I don't really care because they're already putting in the tool in one form and that's more than I care for. I'm already done this WoW rehash. No more gear grind for me.

  • Merlin1977Merlin1977 Member Posts: 168

    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    Should RIft's developers Trion, make the LFD tool cross server?

    I seen many arguments against the tool, but also seen some great support for the tool as well.

    Adding a single shard LFD tool hasnt changed /solved the issues many people faces before the tool was introduced.

    People say, that LFD tool kills the community in WoW. But wasnt these same people saying WoW's Community was already dead before the LFD tool was introduced? So how can they blame the tool than?

    makes no sense. But if some people dont support the tool, are they forced to use it and pug? Wouldnt these people normally not Pug in the first place. So how would a Pug Ralated tool effect them?

    Voted Yes purely on the basis that on under populated servers the tool won't make much difference.  Having said that, once you hit lvl50 it seems that finding a group for a dungeon is alot quicker and easier then at lower levels (according to the rest of my guild it is anyway, i'm still lvl43 and having awful issues finding a group for dungeons even with this tool).

  • tryklontryklon Member UncommonPosts: 1,370

    Im having alot of trouble to find groups so I must vote yes, even I think it is a negative feature because the fact that no one knows each other and wont probably see each other for some time brings the worst of people whebn it comes to attittude.

     

    Unfortunately the game starts to feel a bit "stopped" and as such it needs to get things (dungeons and raids) moving faster and easier

  • Lathander81Lathander81 Member Posts: 611

    I say no. Its not a good idea to be in a group that will not care enough about their rep to ninja loot on another server. I have filled my friendslist with people that I have grouped with because I know I would play with them again. I think thats the spirit of MMOs and I think RIft does it pretty well.

  • darlok6666darlok6666 Member Posts: 211

    Originally posted by ScribZ

    This topic was thoroughly discussed back on the ALPHA forums. The overwhelming consensus was to have it implimented as they just did. Shard only. With all the added extras for accountability. The thing that makes a LFG tool bad isn't the tool, its what it allows people to do if they have no accountability. Just take a quick note from your time in any warfront right now, and see what the prevailing attitude is when you dont have to care what your rep is with the people you team with. Thats the downfall of a cross shard LFG tool.

    If you give people the chance, they will queue up and join a run, hit the first boss and not win what they wanted, and drop the team to requeue. Screw the others as you dont know them, never will see them again, and dont have to worry about your rep. It opens the possability for ninjas to do what they do best, really, its not like those on your team will ever see you again after you loot and run. You dont think Todd the Chloro knows how to play thier mage while you have only ever played a warrior, well its cool, just tell him how bad he is, use whatever language you want, not like he will ever see you again.

    This is why they implimented the LFG tool as they did, becase we requested it that way. We, and I do mean we as there had to be 70% at least in ALPHA in the discussion for this, decided a LFG tool was fine as long as it had no cross shard, and built in accountability (this included the ability for the team to vote someone out if they turned out to be an a$$). The only people who want cross shard LFG are the ones who dont give a rats a$$ about thier rep, they want gear, it is all that matters to thier game time. Fast as they can advance themselves the better, the cost to anyone elses playtime is irrelivant. And that is exactly what Trion is making sure isn't happening right now.

    But its fine if everyone wants to discus this all over again, mayeb a different view will come up. I'm doubting they will make any serious changes until the current system has had time for a good run through though. And then the argument would have to be very compelling to make them changer a system that doesn't harm the rep of thier player base in favor of one that might make thier player base more in line with that other game, you know, the one where not even the people who play it like the other people that play it. Just saying.....

     Key word here ALPHA, what is discussed/planned in Alphas/Betas rarely work as intended.  Already you have people in queue for hours, that alone is justification to broaden it to cross shards as if there is issues now what bout the end of the year when there is almost a guarantee in player decrease?

     

    Course those on big server pops don't have this problem or in fairly sized guilds and leaving those in low server pops or don't go for fairly sized guilds to fend for themselves.

  • PalebanePalebane Member RarePosts: 4,011

    Kill queues. Kill them.

    Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.

  • thebigchin11thebigchin11 Member Posts: 519

    If they merge servers it shouldn't be necessary.  Wish they would hurry up and do it though.

    Chins

  • karat76karat76 Member UncommonPosts: 1,000

    I voted no as well. Unlike others on this forum I still think community and  guilds matter. With the growing number of people in mmos now it went from being more of a community to the world's largest epeen circle jerk.

  • thebigchin11thebigchin11 Member Posts: 519

    I voted 'no' as well btw, but on the basis that mergers happen so pop is sufficent to enable grouping.

    Chins

  • xKingdomxxKingdomx Member UncommonPosts: 1,541

    I can see the attraction of cross server if the game has a smaller playerbase, but for games like WOW, RIFT, and potentially SWTOR, each server will probably have enough players at any given point of the day to create and group for dungeons, which defys the whole point of a cross server LFG tool, if they don't a server merge should be considered. As for smaller games, they probably won't even have more than a server anyways.

     

    So yeah, I don't support cross servers simply because it isn't the best way to deal with the issue they are trying to deal with, server merge will permanently (untill more players leave) fix the grouping issue. There are a lot of ways to deal with grouping, but cross server is probably one of the worst.

    How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
    As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.

  • thebigchin11thebigchin11 Member Posts: 519

    ^what he said

    Chins

  • DeathofsageDeathofsage Member UncommonPosts: 1,102

    Absolutely not

    My experience with this, like most people, comes from WoW.

    When WoW announced their LFD tool, players were excited. It was neat. It was awesome sounding. A way to mix things up, and a way to speed up the mission of the eternal puggers.

    For the first week, it was just as awesome.

    After that, people got bored with it and you stopped having awesome groups. You got the ninjas (some people use heroics to gear up, and a*holes would take gear from them // some people would Need anything they could take from me my 29 gold from a 2h axe that everyone (including me) except the elemental shaman Needed). You get the griefers that just cause sh*t cuz it 's 'funny' and really you just do irreparable damage to the community.

    You get the boomkins/ret paladins/etc that queue as tank but refuse to/cannot (boomkins) do so. As an awesome healer, I didn't mind ret tanks but I hated ret tanks that wouldn't tank.

    All this played out again at the start of Cata. I chose to casual for Cata and had a blast the first few weeks but gradually groups got worse and more assholish. More and more dps doing less than my disc priest, more and more tanks in wrath gear and thus less hp than me. (at 85).

    Of course in Cata, when skill started to matter again, that also presented another problem.

    A dungeon finder needs a way for ill-minded players to regret the action. Being an a*hole because there are no repercussions is terrible.

    Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
    12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.

  • DeathofsageDeathofsage Member UncommonPosts: 1,102

    Originally posted by xKingdomx

    I can see the attraction of cross server if the game has a smaller playerbase, but for games like WOW, RIFT, and potentially SWTOR, each server will probably have enough players at any given point of the day to create and group for dungeons, which defys the whole point of a cross server LFG tool, if they don't a server merge should be considered. As for smaller games, they probably won't even have more than a server anyways.

     

    So yeah, I don't support cross servers simply because it isn't the best way to deal with the issue they are trying to deal with, server merge will permanently (untill more players leave) fix the grouping issue. There are a lot of ways to deal with grouping, but cross server is probably one of the worst.

    Well we've seen what happened in WoW. Before the dungeon finder, finding groups for puggers was a terrible chore. Especially while levelling. Looking for a dungeon manually before 70 (in Wrath) was hopeless. You'd also have these tanks and "healers" not knowing the first thing of either as they entered their first wrath dungeons.

    I certainly learned to tank at 80 in normals and heroics because I'd only had one dungeon my whole time leveling my first tank. Call wrath tanking faceroll, that's fine, but it still had to be learned.

    Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
    12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.

  • xKingdomxxKingdomx Member UncommonPosts: 1,541

    Originally posted by Deathofsage

    Originally posted by xKingdomx

    I can see the attraction of cross server if the game has a smaller playerbase, but for games like WOW, RIFT, and potentially SWTOR, each server will probably have enough players at any given point of the day to create and group for dungeons, which defys the whole point of a cross server LFG tool, if they don't a server merge should be considered. As for smaller games, they probably won't even have more than a server anyways.

     

    So yeah, I don't support cross servers simply because it isn't the best way to deal with the issue they are trying to deal with, server merge will permanently (untill more players leave) fix the grouping issue. There are a lot of ways to deal with grouping, but cross server is probably one of the worst.

    Well we've seen what happened in WoW. Before the dungeon finder, finding groups for puggers was a terrible chore. Especially while levelling. Looking for a dungeon manually before 70 (in Wrath) was hopeless. You'd also have these tanks and "healers" not knowing the first thing of either as they entered their first wrath dungeons.

    I certainly learned to tank at 80 in normals and heroics because I'd only had one dungeon my whole time leveling my first tank. Call wrath tanking faceroll, that's fine, but it still had to be learned.

    I didn't say no to dungeon finder......I just said no to cross server...... = in fact I showed my support to single shard LFG tool 0o

    And maybe it will be nice if you don't use terminology that are specific to WoW players.....since I have no idea what you talking about wrath dungeons lol

    How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
    As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.

  • DmyankeeDmyankee Member UncommonPosts: 135

    No to the cross server, as someone mentioned earlier i see them merging servers soon.

    image

    Artorus Giltanus - Ranger EQ1 Retired
    Arturien - 90 Deathknight WoW

  • BeerheadBeerhead Member Posts: 8

    Really at this point does it matter if they add xserver? They have already entered WoW territory with LFG tools, nerfing dungeons in the first 3 months of existance and removing the need for support classes. I think at this point if they added flying mounts and mecho-hogs it wouldn't do anything to detract from the joke that Rift has become.

  • DeathofsageDeathofsage Member UncommonPosts: 1,102

    Originally posted by xKingdomx

    Originally posted by Deathofsage


    Originally posted by xKingdomx

     

    Well we've seen what happened in WoW. Before the dungeon finder, finding groups for puggers was a terrible chore. Especially while levelling. Looking for a dungeon manually before 70 (in Wrath) was hopeless. You'd also have these tanks and "healers" not knowing the first thing of either as they entered their first wrath dungeons.

    I certainly learned to tank at 80 in normals and heroics because I'd only had one dungeon my whole time leveling my first tank. Call wrath tanking faceroll, that's fine, but it still had to be learned.

    I didn't say no to dungeon finder......I just said no to cross server...... = in fact I showed my support to single shard LFG tool 0o

    And maybe it will be nice if you don't use terminology that are specific to WoW players.....since I have no idea what you talking about wrath dungeons lol

    I didn't say no to dungeon finder either. I just didn't explicity say cross-server. My mistake.

    "Wrath" dungeons is dungeons and heroic dungeons of the second expansion "Wrath of the Lich King". As heroics they were mostly easy but as regulars they were harder because people had no idea what they were doing, were barely geared and when Blizz "nerfed for convenience" the heroics, they didn't nerf the regulars so the regulars had some harder pulls.

    My point was WoW is well populated on many servers, and even those servers, pugging a dungeon was often an hour(s)-long task. I'd go on further, but this isn't the forum for that. But by combining the many servers, it became easier to find groups especially at lower levels.

    Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
    12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.

  • ScribZScribZ Member Posts: 424

    Originally posted by darlok6666

    Originally posted by ScribZ

    This topic was thoroughly discussed back on the ALPHA forums. The overwhelming consensus was to have it implimented as they just did. Shard only. With all the added extras for accountability. The thing that makes a LFG tool bad isn't the tool, its what it allows people to do if they have no accountability. Just take a quick note from your time in any warfront right now, and see what the prevailing attitude is when you dont have to care what your rep is with the people you team with. Thats the downfall of a cross shard LFG tool.

    If you give people the chance, they will queue up and join a run, hit the first boss and not win what they wanted, and drop the team to requeue. Screw the others as you dont know them, never will see them again, and dont have to worry about your rep. It opens the possability for ninjas to do what they do best, really, its not like those on your team will ever see you again after you loot and run. You dont think Todd the Chloro knows how to play thier mage while you have only ever played a warrior, well its cool, just tell him how bad he is, use whatever language you want, not like he will ever see you again.

    This is why they implimented the LFG tool as they did, becase we requested it that way. We, and I do mean we as there had to be 70% at least in ALPHA in the discussion for this, decided a LFG tool was fine as long as it had no cross shard, and built in accountability (this included the ability for the team to vote someone out if they turned out to be an a$$). The only people who want cross shard LFG are the ones who dont give a rats a$$ about thier rep, they want gear, it is all that matters to thier game time. Fast as they can advance themselves the better, the cost to anyone elses playtime is irrelivant. And that is exactly what Trion is making sure isn't happening right now.

    But its fine if everyone wants to discus this all over again, mayeb a different view will come up. I'm doubting they will make any serious changes until the current system has had time for a good run through though. And then the argument would have to be very compelling to make them changer a system that doesn't harm the rep of thier player base in favor of one that might make thier player base more in line with that other game, you know, the one where not even the people who play it like the other people that play it. Just saying.....

     Key word here ALPHA, what is discussed/planned in Alphas/Betas rarely work as intended.  Already you have people in queue for hours, that alone is justification to broaden it to cross shards as if there is issues now what bout the end of the year when there is almost a guarantee in player decrease?

     

    Course those on big server pops don't have this problem or in fairly sized guilds and leaving those in low server pops or don't go for fairly sized guilds to fend for themselves.

     True, what we discussed in ALPHA was in ALPHA, but it still doesn't change the fact that this topic was in fact being discussed long before BETA even came around. And the interaction between us ALPHA testers and the developers did have some sway in how this tools was implimented, that is proven by exactly how it was implimented. It may not be 100% what we all wanted, but it is a good start in giving the LFG tool option to those that want it, and keeping the negative aspect away for as long as possible for everyone.

    And I'm sorry, but I can't justify a complete lack of accoutablity for a persons actions just to promote ease of grouping for those that have no desire to try and work together. I've heard too many people in WoW and in Rift already who complain about not finding a group for so and so, but when you ask them if they advertised you get the same response...no, but nobody is looking for blah blah blah for hours now. Really, take the initiative to start it yourself. If your saying good sized guilds have no trouble, join one of them or start recruiting for your own guild to grow. Take it upon yourself to schedule some guild team runs.

    99.999% of the people who want the cross server LFG tool are the one who want someone else to do all the work for them. They all want to log in, be in a dungeon run within 10 minutes without any effort on thier part but a click of a button, they want the team all formed for them so they dont have to bother looking for a good synergy of players, they want everything handed to them on a silver platter. Oh and then they want to be able to act however they please without any care for the people around them or for thier own reputation.

     

    As for the inevitable pop decrease within a year, I will tell you this...I would rather lose 50% of all the players and retain the rest as good, solid, respectful, and productive base, than keep 95% when half of them are anti-social asshats who would call thier own mother a *^&$# if you let them. The people who will leave because they dont have thier easy free run to the top in 4 days are not the ones that keep an MMO going for years. If they all leave in 9 months there is no loss to the games future in my opinion.

  • watchawatchawatchawatcha Member Posts: 960

    I think there should be server merges first, before a cross server tool is implemented.

  • XiaokiXiaoki Member EpicPosts: 4,045


    Originally posted by Xasapis

    Guy finished quest, left group mid dungeon First wipe in one boss, guy left Guy running along doing nothing Somebody mentions a possible improvement for another player, other player leaves Guy rages towards team for not going fast enough, dying, whatever Guy gets the item he wanted from boss, ditches team without finishing dungeon Guy rolls need on everything he can

    This behavior is not exclusive to WoW and it is not exclusive to a cross server LFG tool.


    I saw all these situations happen in the first 2 weeks I played Rift.

  • HarkkumHarkkum Member Posts: 180

    I find it a tad silly to oppose a tool just because of basic human nature. I think that internet forums would be the first thing to get removed if values such as community and manners were to be set as a prerequisite for their existance. I am not entirely sure whether it is for the sake of argument or sheer elitism that so many, and so vehemently, are against a cross-shard tool.

    A tool which makes a chore easier in real life is normally valued, as many of us find cars and washing machines nice to have-by, though they as well shattered communities and road-rage indeed is most ill-mannered behaviour encountered. You still could walk to places or wash clothes by the river, but few choose to do so. I bet those selected few must be shouting while marching to that now-polluted river of theirs how things were better before all those polluting cars.

    As the OP of the linked thread clearly indicates, there exists a choice as of not to use a tool, which is a fairly strong argument. If the deteriorating status of community within virtual world is your utmost concern, then by all means stick to your principles and refuse to use 'em gadgets of modernity. Your community of well-mannered and friendly individuals will remain on its pristine state.

    The second argument is whether there actually exist or emerges any greater community by excessive spam? I do recall that the groups-of-old were no fora of friendly chatter despite the fact that they were formed according to tried-and-tested spam method. Certainly, if the point of reference is to a group formed by members of your guild or real life friends there indeed are different standards for the behaviour, but such groups never were formed through the LFD tool, cross-server, single server or a mere bulletin board.

    Hence, the argument is construed by relying on slippery slope and induction based on limited and flawed evidence. Neither of which hardly can be praised as the best methods of arguing. In what fashion does the access of others to virtual content hamper your gaming experience and cherished community is beyond me. A tool is a tool and its use or lack of use is what gives it its (moral) value. Therefor, you all ought to start a war on internet forums, cars and washing machines for they as well are used for negative ends which must make all these tools unsavoury according to your proofed argumentation of sillyness.

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