Don't waste your time in getting your opinion heard in this thread guys. We will just have to wait for GW2 and SWTOR launch and see how well Rifts will do. I bet they will have the same numbers of servers with medium and high population going strong.
AOC and WAR are still up running and adding content. What did you mena by this?
Struggling................that's what it meant
They are doing good enough to avoid being closed, but they are a huge disappointment in terms of pre-release expectations
Rift will end up exactly like WAR and AoC, I said that before its release after playing beta.
So you based the games failure on the beta? Why was that?
I actually enjoyed beta for the most part, the endgame isn't really my cup of tea anymore and the pvp is BAD, but the thing that killed it for me was the lack of players - that and 80% of my guild quitting a week or two after reaching 50. Waiting hours for a WF to pop, and spending the majority of my time trying to put together a raid group is not my idea of fun.
Not a huge loss though, it wasn't anything I haven't done before.
Well First, i like Rift and i am glad it is a slightly differnt take on the standard MMO. It is the first MMO i have seen where it is viable to lvl through pvp, quests or dungeons (after lvl 15) or any combination of the 3 . There is even no need to "raid" if one does not want to. The way the game handles what amounts to 4 factions ( Nomal NPC's, "rift npc's, deviants and gaudians ) is interesting. Even on the PvP servers you can sometimes find both player sides working against the rift forces togeather. The server pops seem fine so far but then i have not played on all of them. I have noticed that when i log in at night i tend to be in a que for 5 minutes or so to log in on the ones i play on. Since it has been 2 months since lauch to me this is a healthy sign since in a poor game you wil see a large drop off after the first 30 play time expires after openign launch
1) I am not sure they really need to double the land mass but perhaps in a year i might have actually seen and done it all as of yet no.
2) The norm would be an increase in the lvl cap by 10 . I see no reason to go to 70 right off the bat. Eq was at 50 when it launched then 60 and so on just as the other MMO's have done.
3) I could see the increase in races to perhaps 1 per side. With all the combonations of souls and the different trees people are usign in each one al though new ones might be nice I do not see that as a requirement. Perhaps some sort of prestiage souls ?
4) Not sure what the suggestion is here since everythign the OP mentioned is in the game. The WF do have objectives as does the RW pvp. There is RW PvP on the PvP servers I know i play on two of them. For all the complaints by some the WF do seem pretty blances. Yes ceritan times of the day one sides on a given server tends to win more than their share but throughout the day it seems to actually be close to 50-50. The run of losses one side might see aare usually done to either poor players on one side or a shortage in a given stretch of time of a class in that lvl range.
5) the game coudl use a few more dungeons ssince some prefer to just lvl by instances i can see it gettign old when you have only two in a particular range such as ROTF and IT for the under 20 crowd.
6) there are tons of quests that are meaningful. Perhaps with all the quests the OP just has not hit on the right ones. I love how all the "story" ones flowtogeather. The crafting and guidl onces are a nice touch as well. I usually out lvl an area before i have gone much below the tip of the iceberg when it comes to an areas quests.
Magic is impressive, but now Minsc leads! Swords for everyone!
I hate when people say "WoW didn't have this much." WoW invented the instanced dungeon. For it's time WoW was offering more than any other game out there. Comparing this game to WoW is obviously unfair because WoW has been around forever. It's like comparing Age of Empires to Chess.
...
Anarchy Online wants to have a word with you, hehe. Seriously though, the only thing WoW invented in the six-seven years of its existence and the billions of dollars accumulated is phasing. Absolutely everything else was copied and assimilated from somebody else, borg style.
so what if they didnt event anything, thats like saying the model t was the best car ever invented ebcuase it was teh first.
WoW on launch had tons more stuff to do then rift and no one got to max level and compelted everything in 4 days like they did in rift.
Difference being, later cars improved on design in every way and built entirely different features.
WoW just... made a cut down version of the model T that had less features, did less things, and had nothing new to call its own except a massive ad budget.
I dont agree with the title really. What must Rift do to survive?
It makes believe that the game is dieing wich isnt the case really. The game managed to maintain a very decent playerbase, it still does, and with the patch 1.2 it actually got a bit revitalized again.
Now, I must agree that the endgame does get a bit boring after a while, especially for other players, like myself, that came from WoW, wich had a similar endgame system.
Theres no doubt that Trion must work, and fast, to bring more content to the game sooner than later, and I dont mean only endgame, we need more leveling zones, more leveling dungeons, a slower leveling rate, and very very important, new starting areas... this is very important. And offcourse some different endgame objectives like we already read here.
I agree that Trion laid a very decent foundation but there is no time to relax, and patch 1.2 while bringing the new LFD tool, did not add new content. So let's see what 1.3 is bringing next month...
I could have worded it better, I agree. It got you to look though :]
I hate when people say "WoW didn't have this much." WoW invented the instanced dungeon. For it's time WoW was offering more than any other game out there. Comparing this game to WoW is obviously unfair because WoW has been around forever. It's like comparing Age of Empires to Chess.
...
Anarchy Online wants to have a word with you, hehe. Seriously though, the only thing WoW invented in the six-seven years of its existence and the billions of dollars accumulated is phasing. Absolutely everything else was copied and assimilated from somebody else, borg style.
so what if they didnt event anything, thats like saying the model t was the best car ever invented ebcuase it was teh first.
WoW on launch had tons more stuff to do then rift and no one got to max level and compelted everything in 4 days like they did in rift.
Difference being, later cars improved on design in every way and built entirely different features.
WoW just... made a cut down version of the model T that had less features, did less things, and had nothing new to call its own except a massive ad budget.
Did less things and less features huh? How you figure that?
WoW has the most features compared to most MMOs, is a very well rounded. It's just many try to copy all of it's features, throw in a lil something to call it's own, and expect to legitimately compete but in the end fail. Raid content, pvp, crafting, dungeons, clas balance...all that they have done that pretty damn well which people have been modeling after. So much that there is the "WoW Clone" clique. The problem is lack of originality, if an MMO doesn't have it then it's not gonna do well. SWTOR has this to a degree, GW2 very much so has this, TSW seems to be pulling their own orginality and has a certain vision that will make it unique in it's own.
Having played RIFT they need to just do the same as every other WoW cloned MMO out there; simply release updates and keep servers up. Trust me, if Age of Conan can survive with it's population then RIFT has nothing to worry about.
"Karl Benz was the German mechanical engineer who designed and in 1885 built the world's first practical automobile to be powered by an internal-combustion engine."
Notice the first three entries that lead to cars are German, the Model T was the first MASS PRODUCED and the most affordable car in the world (big milestone).
Or stop playing it and start meeting with real people and go to real places and have fun with your friends
I play Rift 5 - 10 hours a week. I have two toons, one is 14 the other is 26. You are mistaken friend, I leave for Tokyo in a week on business where I am bringing my whole family for two weeks. Last Year I went to Ireland and Spain. I co own a bar/restaurant which I spend most of my time out side of my programming job. I do alot more during the week too. You sir have missed the point
Or stop playing it and start meeting with real people and go to real places and have fun with your friends
I play Rift 5 - 10 hours a week. I have two toons, one is 14 the other is 26. You are mistaken friend, I leave for Tokyo in a week on business where I am bringing my whole family for two weeks. Last Year I went to Ireland and Spain. I co own a bar/restaurant which I spend most of my time out side of my programming job. I do alot more during the week too. You sir have missed the point
What makes you think ChochoD is male?
What makes you think that she/he/it isn't a male?
Currently Playing: Rift + Starcraft II + Gears Of War 3 Beta
Rome was not built in a day, and a good mmo is not insta-awesome. I keep seeing all these posts about games that have only been out for a month or two and we instantly jump on them and watch them for the slightest error and mistake and then call them fails. If WOW had been held up to the same standard when it first came out it would never have become the MMO it is today....
I don't think that WOW is going down anytime soon. However, I do think there are a few games out there that can effectively compete for their market share, and to be successful that is all you really need to do. Rift is a game that might be able to effectively compete. But, they have already pulled some dumb moves, but that shouldn't be enough to condem them.
Currently Play: ? Occasionally Play: Champions, Pirates of the Burning Sea, WOW, EVE ONLINE
Rome was not built in a day, and a good mmo is not insta-awesome. I keep seeing all these posts about games that have only been out for a month or two and we instantly jump on them and watch them for the slightest error and mistake and then call them fails. If WOW had been held up to the same standard when it first came out it would never have become the MMO it is today....
I don't think that WOW is going down anytime soon. However, I do think there are a few games out there that can effectively compete for their market share, and to be successful that is all you really need to do. Rift is a game that might be able to effectively compete. But, they have already pulled some dumb moves, but that shouldn't be enough to condem them.
While I'll admitt that I might be overly harsh on Rift but that is to be expected when many felt decieved by Trion. They claimed to be innovative, made all this build up of their rift features, claiming to have PvP capability, but in the end left many feeling violated and angered. I personally took offense to the uncreativity of them which they just copied WoW. I know their are elements that are unique to Rift but almost every aspect of Rift is identical to WoW. Group make ups, roles, dungeons, raids, gear aquisition...all of that borrows to heavily from WoW. At least with AoC there was unique elements, questing, dungeons, grp make ups, classes, their style of aggro and healing had some originality to it.
I guess people have bad memory or something. Rift is one of the most complete games to come around in a long time. I can list an almost infinite list of games that have been released with less content than Rift. It also seems that every 2 months or so, they're adding content.
Rift has more content than WoW did at launch. It doesn't seem like much since everything can be done with minimal investment of time. Dungeons in WoW and almost every other game take at least an hour, Rift is 30 minutes. Leveling from 1-max takes about 4 days or more, Rift can be done in 2 days. Don't mistaken the time it takes to do things for lack of content. Rift already has 2 raid dungeons. WoW launched with NONE, but was added before most people even got to it. About every month in a half or so it seems Trion will be having world events that add new content (dungeons and equipment). In WoW and just about every other MMO it takes at least 3 months for new content patches. Even DCUO, which stated they were going to have monthly content update, can't match the rate that Rift is growing.
Now as for suggestions, there's always something that can be done to make things better in any game. One of the biggest things I've wanted since my first Rift experience was to follow the Rift "tendrils" back through and whip that Planes arse, so they wouldn't ever dare come back to my world I think it would be pretty neat if on the closure of Major Rift Tears you have an option to travel back through the Rift to that Plane and have a whole 'nother world to explore and conquer
Trion just nerfed the crap out of the Dungeons ... I have guildies already talking about going back to wow ... Games are supposed to be challenging.
What does trion have to do to survive ... keep thier niche alive ... GW2 and Knights of the Old Republic will take thier chunk out of this game as well.
I guess people have bad memory or something. Rift is one of the most complete games to come around in a long time. I can list an almost infinite list of games that have been released with less content than Rift. It also seems that every 2 months or so, they're adding content.
Rift has more content than WoW did at launch. It doesn't seem like much since everything can be done with minimal investment of time. Dungeons in WoW and almost every other game take at least an hour, Rift is 30 minutes. Leveling from 1-max takes about 4 days or more, Rift can be done in 2 days. Don't mistaken the time it takes to do things for lack of content. Rift already has 2 raid dungeons. WoW launched with NONE, but was added before most people even got to it. About every month in a half or so it seems Trion will be having world events that add new content (dungeons and equipment). In WoW and just about every other MMO it takes at least 3 months for new content patches. Even DCUO, which stated they were going to have monthly content update, can't match the rate that Rift is growing.
Work on your facts please.
I actually agree with this ((First quote)). I mean, it's been a damn long while since I've played a game and it actually felt finished. Yes, the leveling is a tad accelerated to my liking but overall, I'm REALLY comfortable in Rift. It gives me my usual stuff that I want and adds a few surprises ((I didn't follow the dev on this game so yes, surprises for me!)). I'm loving the invasions/ PvE Rifts/ PvP/ Etc. Plus they just added the 'Wardrobe' which I think is great!
I think Gravarg is right, or damn close to the truth.
As for the 'Work on your facts' quote ... Well, do you have any arguments to prove him wrong? Because seriously, as far as I'm concern, Rift is a solid product and if they can match big companies like Blizzard with new content release, I can see this game doing very well in the future.
________________________ "If RL was an MMO, I'd probably be getting laid more often..."
Rome was not built in a day, and a good mmo is not insta-awesome. I keep seeing all these posts about games that have only been out for a month or two and we instantly jump on them and watch them for the slightest error and mistake and then call them fails. If WOW had been held up to the same standard when it first came out it would never have become the MMO it is today....
I don't think that WOW is going down anytime soon. However, I do think there are a few games out there that can effectively compete for their market share, and to be successful that is all you really need to do. Rift is a game that might be able to effectively compete. But, they have already pulled some dumb moves, but that shouldn't be enough to condem them.
While I'll admitt that I might be overly harsh on Rift but that is to be expected when many felt decieved by Trion. They claimed to be innovative, made all this build up of their rift features, claiming to have PvP capability, but in the end left many feeling violated and angered. I personally took offense to the uncreativity of them which they just copied WoW. I know their are elements that are unique to Rift but almost every aspect of Rift is identical to WoW. Group make ups, roles, dungeons, raids, gear aquisition...all of that borrows to heavily from WoW. At least with AoC there was unique elements, questing, dungeons, grp make ups, classes, their style of aggro and healing had some originality to it.
You shouldn't feel too deceived as they had an open beta for like 2 months that showed you exactly what this game was all about..
Currently Playing: Rift + Starcraft II + Gears Of War 3 Beta
Rome was not built in a day, and a good mmo is not insta-awesome. I keep seeing all these posts about games that have only been out for a month or two and we instantly jump on them and watch them for the slightest error and mistake and then call them fails. If WOW had been held up to the same standard when it first came out it would never have become the MMO it is today....
I don't think that WOW is going down anytime soon. However, I do think there are a few games out there that can effectively compete for their market share, and to be successful that is all you really need to do. Rift is a game that might be able to effectively compete. But, they have already pulled some dumb moves, but that shouldn't be enough to condem them.
While I'll admitt that I might be overly harsh on Rift but that is to be expected when many felt decieved by Trion. They claimed to be innovative, made all this build up of their rift features, claiming to have PvP capability, but in the end left many feeling violated and angered. I personally took offense to the uncreativity of them which they just copied WoW. I know their are elements that are unique to Rift but almost every aspect of Rift is identical to WoW. Group make ups, roles, dungeons, raids, gear aquisition...all of that borrows to heavily from WoW. At least with AoC there was unique elements, questing, dungeons, grp make ups, classes, their style of aggro and healing had some originality to it.
You shouldn't feel too deceived as they had an open beta for like 2 months that showed you exactly what this game was all about..
Agreed Hellfyre.
I played beta because I wanted to see how they delievered on their promises (long story but imo: they didn't). I didn't pay a dime and had some fun bs'ing with some wow friends that joined the same beta server.
On PVP though.. Many many beta reviews didn't touch on PVP content. Players were also trying to do everything and try different souls & callings. Noone got to see pvp at 50 (final cap was 42) and most people didn't get nearly that high, though I did.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug. 12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
Or stop playing it and start meeting with real people and go to real places and have fun with your friends
I play Rift 5 - 10 hours a week. I have two toons, one is 14 the other is 26. You are mistaken friend, I leave for Tokyo in a week on business where I am bringing my whole family for two weeks. Last Year I went to Ireland and Spain. I co own a bar/restaurant which I spend most of my time out side of my programming job. I do alot more during the week too. You sir have missed the point
What makes you think ChochoD is male?
What makes you think that she/he/it isn't a male?
If ChochoD is not male, then addressing her/him/it as "sir" is not appropriate. I was questioning the assumptions behind this mode of address.
WoW launched with NONE, but was added before most people even got to it. About every month in a half or so it seems Trion will be having world events that add new content (dungeons and equipment). In WoW and just about every other MMO it takes at least 3 months for new content patches
None of this is true. Molten Core was in the game at release as was Upper Blackrock Spire (15 man raid). Onyxia was in the game but the quest to get to Onyxia was buggy as heck. WoW also added content pretty fast after release and just like Rift it was content that was being worked on in beta but wasn't quite ready, it isn't really new content. Marauden was added just 1 month after release, Dire Maul 3 months after that.
Comments
Don't waste your time in getting your opinion heard in this thread guys. We will just have to wait for GW2 and SWTOR launch and see how well Rifts will do. I bet they will have the same numbers of servers with medium and high population going strong.
Pardon my English as it is not my 1st language
Struggling................that's what it meant
They are doing good enough to avoid being closed, but they are a huge disappointment in terms of pre-release expectations
Rift will end up exactly like WAR and AoC, I said that before its release after playing beta.
So you based the games failure on the beta? Why was that?
I actually enjoyed beta for the most part, the endgame isn't really my cup of tea anymore and the pvp is BAD, but the thing that killed it for me was the lack of players - that and 80% of my guild quitting a week or two after reaching 50. Waiting hours for a WF to pop, and spending the majority of my time trying to put together a raid group is not my idea of fun.
Not a huge loss though, it wasn't anything I haven't done before.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
ahem...
since launch - 2 months ago - things that have been added:
LFG tool
6 x Raid Rifts
10 x Expert Rifts
about a dozen new zone events
evolving NPCs with storyline and quests for each patch update (we've had two major patches so far)
1 x 20 man Raid Instance
1 x 10 man Raid Instance
New Ascended Powers
(Healer/Sliver Mechanic/etc)
Appearance Tab with Costumes (somewhat limited right now)
Hundreds of new items (weapons/armor/collections/pets/mounts/disguises/etc) Some of these things are only available for a limited time.
New abilities added for select souls (Bard got a rez in the most recent update)
New Achievements (If you care about that)
New Artifacts (If you care about that)
New Rewards for Collections/Rifts or Invasions
New Mounts
New Pets
More Dyes
More crafting recipes
More items available based on rep (the beloved rep grind incentive :P )
More places to teleport to
New Mobs and Rare Spawns (many alternate and come from dailies.)
Auction House vast improvements (I'm counting that as content because it adds quite a few new options)
I'm sure I'm missing some stuff, but that's off the top of my head.
Would it be Wow you would have it (err or less) in an Xpack for +40 Bucks, just to say.
Well First, i like Rift and i am glad it is a slightly differnt take on the standard MMO. It is the first MMO i have seen where it is viable to lvl through pvp, quests or dungeons (after lvl 15) or any combination of the 3 . There is even no need to "raid" if one does not want to. The way the game handles what amounts to 4 factions ( Nomal NPC's, "rift npc's, deviants and gaudians ) is interesting. Even on the PvP servers you can sometimes find both player sides working against the rift forces togeather. The server pops seem fine so far but then i have not played on all of them. I have noticed that when i log in at night i tend to be in a que for 5 minutes or so to log in on the ones i play on. Since it has been 2 months since lauch to me this is a healthy sign since in a poor game you wil see a large drop off after the first 30 play time expires after openign launch
1) I am not sure they really need to double the land mass but perhaps in a year i might have actually seen and done it all as of yet no.
2) The norm would be an increase in the lvl cap by 10 . I see no reason to go to 70 right off the bat. Eq was at 50 when it launched then 60 and so on just as the other MMO's have done.
3) I could see the increase in races to perhaps 1 per side. With all the combonations of souls and the different trees people are usign in each one al though new ones might be nice I do not see that as a requirement. Perhaps some sort of prestiage souls ?
4) Not sure what the suggestion is here since everythign the OP mentioned is in the game. The WF do have objectives as does the RW pvp. There is RW PvP on the PvP servers I know i play on two of them. For all the complaints by some the WF do seem pretty blances. Yes ceritan times of the day one sides on a given server tends to win more than their share but throughout the day it seems to actually be close to 50-50. The run of losses one side might see aare usually done to either poor players on one side or a shortage in a given stretch of time of a class in that lvl range.
5) the game coudl use a few more dungeons ssince some prefer to just lvl by instances i can see it gettign old when you have only two in a particular range such as ROTF and IT for the under 20 crowd.
6) there are tons of quests that are meaningful. Perhaps with all the quests the OP just has not hit on the right ones. I love how all the "story" ones flowtogeather. The crafting and guidl onces are a nice touch as well. I usually out lvl an area before i have gone much below the tip of the iceberg when it comes to an areas quests.
Magic is impressive, but now Minsc leads! Swords for everyone!
Difference being, later cars improved on design in every way and built entirely different features.
WoW just... made a cut down version of the model T that had less features, did less things, and had nothing new to call its own except a massive ad budget.
Darkfall Travelogues!
I could have worded it better, I agree. It got you to look though :]
Did less things and less features huh? How you figure that?
WoW has the most features compared to most MMOs, is a very well rounded. It's just many try to copy all of it's features, throw in a lil something to call it's own, and expect to legitimately compete but in the end fail. Raid content, pvp, crafting, dungeons, clas balance...all that they have done that pretty damn well which people have been modeling after. So much that there is the "WoW Clone" clique. The problem is lack of originality, if an MMO doesn't have it then it's not gonna do well. SWTOR has this to a degree, GW2 very much so has this, TSW seems to be pulling their own orginality and has a certain vision that will make it unique in it's own.
Having played RIFT they need to just do the same as every other WoW cloned MMO out there; simply release updates and keep servers up. Trust me, if Age of Conan can survive with it's population then RIFT has nothing to worry about.
The Model T was NOT the first car in the world!
"Karl Benz was the German mechanical engineer who designed and in 1885 built the world's first practical automobile to be powered by an internal-combustion engine."
http://inventors.about.com/od/astartinventors/tp/Famous-Automobile-Makers-.htm
Notice the first three entries that lead to cars are German, the Model T was the first MASS PRODUCED and the most affordable car in the world (big milestone).
What makes you think ChochoD is male?
What makes you think that she/he/it isn't a male?
Currently Playing:
Rift + Starcraft II + Gears Of War 3 Beta
Rome was not built in a day, and a good mmo is not insta-awesome. I keep seeing all these posts about games that have only been out for a month or two and we instantly jump on them and watch them for the slightest error and mistake and then call them fails. If WOW had been held up to the same standard when it first came out it would never have become the MMO it is today....
I don't think that WOW is going down anytime soon. However, I do think there are a few games out there that can effectively compete for their market share, and to be successful that is all you really need to do. Rift is a game that might be able to effectively compete. But, they have already pulled some dumb moves, but that shouldn't be enough to condem them.
Currently Play: ?
Occasionally Play: Champions, Pirates of the Burning Sea, WOW, EVE ONLINE
Need's the following in the first expansion!
1) New continent, perhaps double the size of the current one.
2) A third player faction (obviously 3 new races to accompany this).
3) Race based starting vignettes.
4) Some massive open dungeons, with contestable goals for pvpers to cream over :P
That would be a start
While I'll admitt that I might be overly harsh on Rift but that is to be expected when many felt decieved by Trion. They claimed to be innovative, made all this build up of their rift features, claiming to have PvP capability, but in the end left many feeling violated and angered. I personally took offense to the uncreativity of them which they just copied WoW. I know their are elements that are unique to Rift but almost every aspect of Rift is identical to WoW. Group make ups, roles, dungeons, raids, gear aquisition...all of that borrows to heavily from WoW. At least with AoC there was unique elements, questing, dungeons, grp make ups, classes, their style of aggro and healing had some originality to it.
Work on your facts please.
Lol? Go back to WoW for a challenge?
I actually agree with this ((First quote)). I mean, it's been a damn long while since I've played a game and it actually felt finished. Yes, the leveling is a tad accelerated to my liking but overall, I'm REALLY comfortable in Rift. It gives me my usual stuff that I want and adds a few surprises ((I didn't follow the dev on this game so yes, surprises for me!)). I'm loving the invasions/ PvE Rifts/ PvP/ Etc. Plus they just added the 'Wardrobe' which I think is great!
I think Gravarg is right, or damn close to the truth.
As for the 'Work on your facts' quote ... Well, do you have any arguments to prove him wrong? Because seriously, as far as I'm concern, Rift is a solid product and if they can match big companies like Blizzard with new content release, I can see this game doing very well in the future.
________________________
"If RL was an MMO, I'd probably be getting laid more often..."
You shouldn't feel too deceived as they had an open beta for like 2 months that showed you exactly what this game was all about..
Currently Playing:
Rift + Starcraft II + Gears Of War 3 Beta
Agreed Hellfyre.
I played beta because I wanted to see how they delievered on their promises (long story but imo: they didn't). I didn't pay a dime and had some fun bs'ing with some wow friends that joined the same beta server.
On PVP though.. Many many beta reviews didn't touch on PVP content. Players were also trying to do everything and try different souls & callings. Noone got to see pvp at 50 (final cap was 42) and most people didn't get nearly that high, though I did.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
If ChochoD is not male, then addressing her/him/it as "sir" is not appropriate. I was questioning the assumptions behind this mode of address.
None of this is true. Molten Core was in the game at release as was Upper Blackrock Spire (15 man raid). Onyxia was in the game but the quest to get to Onyxia was buggy as heck. WoW also added content pretty fast after release and just like Rift it was content that was being worked on in beta but wasn't quite ready, it isn't really new content. Marauden was added just 1 month after release, Dire Maul 3 months after that.