Here is where the subjectivity of art is shown the most clearly. The OP and several others feel the character models are "aweful", while some are indifferent, and the majority are happy with them or better. Me persoanlly, I think they look very good although I will admit to not liking most armors for SIs and JCs being dresses. Most games that I have seen recently look much worse and it is so easy for an ultra-realistic looking character model to just be off in some disturbing way that I am glad they didn't go that route, even discounting the problems it would cause with playability.
You'll see very skewed opinions of a major pre-release MMO fueled on the sort of hype that SWTOR's got going for it. Problem is, we've all seen how far hype alone carries an MMO. When all the fans are drastically outnumbered by the average consumers just looking for a good game, criticism tends to carry a lot more weight.
Almost seems to me like some of you really believe SWTOR will definitely be the mega hit they're hoping for, like they've already got it in the bag. I'm not saying it's impossible, but look at all these MMOs that failed to live up to expectations, and honestly, it just isn't likely. I'm not biased here, I hope the game is great and succeeds.. but we'll see what the majority thinks a month or two after release.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
I have to disagree. The new and improved graphics that have been shown of late look much less "cartoonish" and much more in line with about 90% of just about any other MMO out there. Yes, I could do away with some of the style of the graphics...specifically armor on Jedi and such but I can live with it. I will assume (at least until proven otherwise) that much that will come from E3 this year will include updated graphic content.
Here is where the subjectivity of art is shown the most clearly. The OP and several others feel the character models are "aweful", while some are indifferent, and the majority are happy with them or better. Me persoanlly, I think they look very good although I will admit to not liking most armors for SIs and JCs being dresses. Most games that I have seen recently look much worse and it is so easy for an ultra-realistic looking character model to just be off in some disturbing way that I am glad they didn't go that route, even discounting the problems it would cause with playability.
You'll see very skewed opinions of a major pre-release MMO fueled on the sort of hype that SWTOR's got going for it. Problem is, we've all seen how far hype alone carries an MMO. When all the fans are drastically outnumbered by the average consumers just looking for a good game, criticism tends to carry a lot more weight.
Almost seems to me like some of you really believe SWTOR will definitely be the mega hit they're hoping for, like they've already got it in the bag. I'm not saying it's impossible, but look at all these MMOs that failed to live up to expectations, and honestly, it just isn't likely. I'm not biased here, I hope the game is great and succeeds.. but we'll see what the majority thinks a month or two after release.
I think personally it's going to depend a lot on other factors of the game. How repitive the game feels. How big the worlds are. How much there is to do. What the quality of the game is in (how many bugs) and wether all this ties into being fun. Naturally graphics are always important but they aren't the only factor, ala we see how well minecraft is doing right now. Naturally some people won't like a certain artstyle but i don't think artstyle alone will tank a game.
As for me i never base anything on hype. A lot of games get a lot of hype, deserving or otherwise, this always causes people to react like their game will be a mega success. Happens with every game. I think what Gman is basically saying is that general public so far seems to be more in favor of the graphics then against it. Wether that continues to be the case after launch is something we can't see, and thus can't really comment on.
I really hope it suceeds, but i'm never foolish enough to assume it will. But then again i'm never foolish enough to assume a game will fail before playing it either. I try to take each game on it's own merits like i think a lot of posters do. Hopefully people won't try to assume because a game with a lot of hype before failed that means this one will as well, because theres also equally no way of knowing that as there of knowing if the game will succeed.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
I just went through watching all the progression videos and while what I saw I thought was cool, I just couldn't get past how awful the character models are. I know, this is a silly bone to pick, but come on, If i'm going to be playing the game I'm going to have to look at them all the time while I'm playing it.
I can understand a cartoon art style approach but this is just bad. The more armor the characters have on to hide their limbs and body the better they look, anything skin tight though looks absolutely awful, speaking of which, why does everyone wear spandex? They're Jedi, not super heroes. The weapons all looked pretty bland as well, but I could tolerate that.
Anyways, this is just my opinion, I've heard lots of similiar opinions so I can't help but wonder why they're still using these models? Are there people out there that actually like this look? (above the age of 8). Also have there been any plans to offer alternative character models like some games?
I agree with you that the characters look awful, but I also think the armor sets, droids, and weapons make the game look even worse. Yes, I understand that the game takes place 3000 years before the films and blah, blah, blah, but that doesn't work well in a sci-fi medium. Things are supposed to look newer, sleeker, and more badass in sci-fi, not bulkier, slower, and clunky.
I also believe that the Jedi clothing is probably the worst part. I have no desire to run around in Jedi robes that barrow too much from the fantasy genre, and so over-the-top that even Gandalf the wizard would be embarrassed to wear them. If, as the tagline for TOR suggests, the greatest Star Wars saga ever told is mine, it sure as hell wouldn't involve me running around in spandex tights or a dress. Unless BW is keeping an A-tab announcement under wraps, it looks like this is what you'll be stuck wearing.
For those arguing that gameplay is more important, I completely disagree. The look and feel of the game are equally as important as the actual gameplay to a players overall enjoyment. If the graphics are not an annoyance to you, that's fine, but if you are put off by what you are watching on-screen, then you will likely not enjoy the overall game. That goes double for this game, considering that TOR's gameplay model is pretty much the same standard MMO format that the industry has been copying for nearly a decade.
I've gone from being cautiously optimistic about this game, to being on the fence, and I have recently come to the conclusion that unless there are some announcements forthcoming about graphics and gameplay mechanics, I won't be playing TOR. I'm a Star Wars fan through and through, but I just can't get behind what I'm seeing so far in this MMO.
Just because I can, I would like to point out that 20 years ago, we used our imagination to create RPG worlds in text based games known as MuDs. In fact, I was playing a game called Gemstone 3 back in the early 90's when you paid for internet by the hour.
Graphics are a bonus, not a necessity...
Well in that case there was a time when movies didnt' have sound and people took in the story by what the actors were doing as well as snippets of dialogue printed at the bottom the screen. Many movies were made this way.
sound in movies is a bonus not a necessity.
Perhaps you are looking over your silent movie collection and agreeing with me?
Actually, I've watched movies with the sound off before and just read subtitles. My point was in my post that games were still fun to play before 3D graphics were involved and I know for a fact, more people RPed than too. If Gemstone 3 was free to play, I'd probably still be playing it, but why would I pay $10 a month for a MuD when so many games offer a virtual world to explore for same or free? EQ has some pretty dated graphics, but EQ has more heart when it comes to true MMORPG value then most of the fancy art crap I see coming out in today's MMOs. I'm not saying graphics aren't wanted, what I'm saying is, the graphic models in SWTOR are not so bad as to warrant a bad review. If an MMO rates 8-10 in every category except it got a 5 in graphics when another MMO rates 8-10 in everything except for gameplay, I'd probably go for the MMO with better gameplay.
Well there I have to agree with you. the models aren't so bad as to be a deal breaker. Probably for many people.
But SWToRs voiceovers and cut scenes "should" be adding to the experience. it's not guaranteed that it's going to detract from the experience.
However, a game in 2d feels different and provides a different experience than 3d. I don't consider one better than the other but "different".
I view SWToR's experiment with voiceovers and extended story as being a different way of approaching an mmo.
It's funny that so many people scream for "different" but when a company does something different they don't want it.
From what I've read over the years, people don't want different. They want their favorite game, updated to today's standards, before that "patch" or "expansion" that ruined it, and with new content.
I think people need to give it a chance and take it for its own merits. From what I saw at PAX, many people were "digging it".
they must have done something right!
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Just because I can, I would like to point out that 20 years ago, we used our imagination to create RPG worlds in text based games known as MuDs. In fact, I was playing a game called Gemstone 3 back in the early 90's when you paid for internet by the hour.
Graphics are a bonus, not a necessity...
Well in that case there was a time when movies didnt' have sound and people took in the story by what the actors were doing as well as snippets of dialogue printed at the bottom the screen. Many movies were made this way.
sound in movies is a bonus not a necessity.
Perhaps you are looking over your silent movie collection and agreeing with me?
Actually, I've watched movies with the sound off before and just read subtitles. My point was in my post that games were still fun to play before 3D graphics were involved and I know for a fact, more people RPed than too. If Gemstone 3 was free to play, I'd probably still be playing it, but why would I pay $10 a month for a MuD when so many games offer a virtual world to explore for same or free? EQ has some pretty dated graphics, but EQ has more heart when it comes to true MMORPG value then most of the fancy art crap I see coming out in today's MMOs. I'm not saying graphics aren't wanted, what I'm saying is, the graphic models in SWTOR are not so bad as to warrant a bad review. If an MMO rates 8-10 in every category except it got a 5 in graphics when another MMO rates 8-10 in everything except for gameplay, I'd probably go for the MMO with better gameplay.
Well there I have to agree with you. the models aren't so bad as to be a deal breaker. Probably for many people.
But SWToRs voiceovers and cut scenes "should" be adding to the experience. it's not guaranteed that it's going to detract from the experience.
However, a game in 2d feels different and provides a different experience than 3d. I don't consider one better than the other but "different".
I view SWToR's experiment with voiceovers and extended story as being a different way of approaching an mmo.
It's funny that so many people scream for "different" but when a company does something different they don't want it.
From what I've read over the years, people don't want different. They want their favorite game, updated to today's standards, before that "patch" or "expansion" that ruined it, and with new content.
I think people need to give it a chance and take it for its own merits. From what I saw at PAX, many people were "digging it".
they must have done something right!
WHAT!!?? You mean you think we actually need to judge this game by its own features alone without comparing it to any other completely unrelated games!? Or worse, that we actually have to know something about the game before we discuss it instead of just jumping to conclusions based on the most tenuous of information!? Well Sir I can tell you that you won't go very far on these forums with that kind of attitude!
/sarcasm off
Completely agree. Maybe we should wait and see exactly what they've done with the game before we start deciding what they've done wrong with it.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
WHAT!!?? You mean you think we actually need to judge this game by its own features alone without comparing it to any other completely unrelated games!? Or worse, that we actually have to know something about the game before we discuss it instead of just jumping to conclusions based on the most tenuous of information!? Well Sir I can tell you that you won't go very far on these forums with that kind of attitude!
/sarcasm off
Completely agree. Maybe we should wait and see exactly what they've done with the game before we start deciding what they've done wrong with it.
on second thought "CONCLUSIONS!", "CONCLUSIONS!"
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
TOR has crappy character models? Are we talking about the same game?
Okay then. If those character models are not up to your high and mighty standards then there is no pleasing you.
I completely agree with you, these screens are pretty impressive. This game never intended to be extremely realistic looking, for multiple reasons. IMO something more stylized, such as TOR, is better anyways due to everything able to mold to the style, instead of a developer trying too hard to make something look realistic and it end up looking weird and out of place.
I like the models, I have always liked the artstyle. It looks like a game to me. Most games are getting so realistic now most of them dont look like a game anymore, I want a game to look like a game.
This is so subjective though, some people are not gonna like it, some are. The models before appeared to be on strings like puppets, they are much more fluid and lifelike in their movements now. The landscapes are absolutely gorgeous though with the artstyle they are using. plus this game should run well on older systems so they can pull that crowd in like wow did. Anyways, I like the models, much better looking now than they used to be.
I like the models, I have always liked the artstyle. It looks like a game to me. Most games are getting so realistic now most of them dont look like a game anymore, I want a game to look like a game.
This is so subjective though, some people are not gonna like it, some are. The models before appeared to be on strings like puppets, they are much more fluid and lifelike in their movements now. The landscapes are absolutely gorgeous though with the artstyle they are using. plus this game should run well on older systems so they can pull that crowd in like wow did. Anyways, I like the models, much better looking now than they used to be.
models and textures > animations > ok now i can tolerate the game > let's play
i wish they went for the realistic look. everything in that game reminds me of the Clone Wars cartoons. TOR is looking like a PG13 game or something.
SWToR is a PG13 game, or at least aiming to be.....
"realistic" mmo's are far less popular than ones with an interesting art style, take rift for example.
Rift graphics are more realistic than TOR especially character's proportions and gear textures.
i was using rift as the "realistic" example. (and the 'far less popular' example)
Heh, funny thing is, hard to tell, because Rift is one of the biggest MMOs these days. Personally, I hate to admit it, because it is fatally flawed, IMHO, but it's too early to use it as a "far less popular" example.
That aside, it's not just about realism vs cartoon, or high-poly vs low-poly. It's also about style, bland vs stylized. WoW, for example, is cartoonish and low-poly, but stylistic to an extreme. Rift is mixed; a lot of what's actually accessible to the average player is realistic, but bland as hell.
TOR looks high poly enough, but cartoonish in a very bland sort of way. Odd combination, I think.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Comments
I like the KOTOR models a lot more than SWTOR....
You'll see very skewed opinions of a major pre-release MMO fueled on the sort of hype that SWTOR's got going for it. Problem is, we've all seen how far hype alone carries an MMO. When all the fans are drastically outnumbered by the average consumers just looking for a good game, criticism tends to carry a lot more weight.
Almost seems to me like some of you really believe SWTOR will definitely be the mega hit they're hoping for, like they've already got it in the bag. I'm not saying it's impossible, but look at all these MMOs that failed to live up to expectations, and honestly, it just isn't likely. I'm not biased here, I hope the game is great and succeeds.. but we'll see what the majority thinks a month or two after release.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
models and textures > animations > ok now i can tolerate the game > let's play
i wish they went for the realistic look. everything in that game reminds me of the Clone Wars cartoons. TOR is looking like a PG13 game or something.
I agree with the op. The cartoony grpahics really don't fit Star Wars at all and just kill the game for me.
I have to disagree. The new and improved graphics that have been shown of late look much less "cartoonish" and much more in line with about 90% of just about any other MMO out there. Yes, I could do away with some of the style of the graphics...specifically armor on Jedi and such but I can live with it. I will assume (at least until proven otherwise) that much that will come from E3 this year will include updated graphic content.
Let's party like it is 1863!
I think personally it's going to depend a lot on other factors of the game. How repitive the game feels. How big the worlds are. How much there is to do. What the quality of the game is in (how many bugs) and wether all this ties into being fun. Naturally graphics are always important but they aren't the only factor, ala we see how well minecraft is doing right now. Naturally some people won't like a certain artstyle but i don't think artstyle alone will tank a game.
As for me i never base anything on hype. A lot of games get a lot of hype, deserving or otherwise, this always causes people to react like their game will be a mega success. Happens with every game. I think what Gman is basically saying is that general public so far seems to be more in favor of the graphics then against it. Wether that continues to be the case after launch is something we can't see, and thus can't really comment on.
I really hope it suceeds, but i'm never foolish enough to assume it will. But then again i'm never foolish enough to assume a game will fail before playing it either. I try to take each game on it's own merits like i think a lot of posters do. Hopefully people won't try to assume because a game with a lot of hype before failed that means this one will as well, because theres also equally no way of knowing that as there of knowing if the game will succeed.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
I agree with you that the characters look awful, but I also think the armor sets, droids, and weapons make the game look even worse. Yes, I understand that the game takes place 3000 years before the films and blah, blah, blah, but that doesn't work well in a sci-fi medium. Things are supposed to look newer, sleeker, and more badass in sci-fi, not bulkier, slower, and clunky.
I also believe that the Jedi clothing is probably the worst part. I have no desire to run around in Jedi robes that barrow too much from the fantasy genre, and so over-the-top that even Gandalf the wizard would be embarrassed to wear them. If, as the tagline for TOR suggests, the greatest Star Wars saga ever told is mine, it sure as hell wouldn't involve me running around in spandex tights or a dress. Unless BW is keeping an A-tab announcement under wraps, it looks like this is what you'll be stuck wearing.
For those arguing that gameplay is more important, I completely disagree. The look and feel of the game are equally as important as the actual gameplay to a players overall enjoyment. If the graphics are not an annoyance to you, that's fine, but if you are put off by what you are watching on-screen, then you will likely not enjoy the overall game. That goes double for this game, considering that TOR's gameplay model is pretty much the same standard MMO format that the industry has been copying for nearly a decade.
I've gone from being cautiously optimistic about this game, to being on the fence, and I have recently come to the conclusion that unless there are some announcements forthcoming about graphics and gameplay mechanics, I won't be playing TOR. I'm a Star Wars fan through and through, but I just can't get behind what I'm seeing so far in this MMO.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think it is quite good.
Frankly until we get 'Holograms' no one will agree on a game's artisitc style.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
I would rather they follow the GW2 type of character models and animation. SWTOR models seems to remind me of the Star Wars Droids animated.
Pardon my English as it is not my 1st language
I think your FACE looks awful.
That's right. I went there. Just your face, too.
Italics = me being sarcastic, since people might have their feelings deeply hurt. And I don't want that. I bet no one else wants that either.
SWToR is a PG13 game, or at least aiming to be.....
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\
( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o)
(")("),,(")("),(")(")
"realistic" mmo's are far less popular than ones with an interesting art style, take rift for example.
Well there I have to agree with you. the models aren't so bad as to be a deal breaker. Probably for many people.
But SWToRs voiceovers and cut scenes "should" be adding to the experience. it's not guaranteed that it's going to detract from the experience.
However, a game in 2d feels different and provides a different experience than 3d. I don't consider one better than the other but "different".
I view SWToR's experiment with voiceovers and extended story as being a different way of approaching an mmo.
It's funny that so many people scream for "different" but when a company does something different they don't want it.
From what I've read over the years, people don't want different. They want their favorite game, updated to today's standards, before that "patch" or "expansion" that ruined it, and with new content.
I think people need to give it a chance and take it for its own merits. From what I saw at PAX, many people were "digging it".
they must have done something right!
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
WHAT!!?? You mean you think we actually need to judge this game by its own features alone without comparing it to any other completely unrelated games!? Or worse, that we actually have to know something about the game before we discuss it instead of just jumping to conclusions based on the most tenuous of information!? Well Sir I can tell you that you won't go very far on these forums with that kind of attitude!
/sarcasm off
Completely agree. Maybe we should wait and see exactly what they've done with the game before we start deciding what they've done wrong with it.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
on second thought "CONCLUSIONS!", "CONCLUSIONS!"
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
TOR has crappy character models? Are we talking about the same game?
Okay then. If those character models are not up to your high and mighty standards then there is no pleasing you.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Rift graphics are more realistic than TOR especially character's proportions and gear textures.
i was using rift as the "realistic" example. (and the 'far less popular' example)
I completely agree with you, these screens are pretty impressive. This game never intended to be extremely realistic looking, for multiple reasons. IMO something more stylized, such as TOR, is better anyways due to everything able to mold to the style, instead of a developer trying too hard to make something look realistic and it end up looking weird and out of place.
Generally, I like the character models.
Total time played: 9125 Days, 21 Hours, 29 Minutes, 27 Seconds
Time played this level: 39 Days, 1 Hour, 24 Minutes, 5 Seconds
I like the models, I have always liked the artstyle. It looks like a game to me. Most games are getting so realistic now most of them dont look like a game anymore, I want a game to look like a game.
This is so subjective though, some people are not gonna like it, some are. The models before appeared to be on strings like puppets, they are much more fluid and lifelike in their movements now. The landscapes are absolutely gorgeous though with the artstyle they are using. plus this game should run well on older systems so they can pull that crowd in like wow did. Anyways, I like the models, much better looking now than they used to be.
good post.
They are getting better voer time thats for sure..
But i also hate the cartoon style that all starwars games have gone down recently.. except the force unleased..
I love more realistic graphics style... AOC should be the base line graphics wise for all MMOs to follow...
Heh, funny thing is, hard to tell, because Rift is one of the biggest MMOs these days. Personally, I hate to admit it, because it is fatally flawed, IMHO, but it's too early to use it as a "far less popular" example.
That aside, it's not just about realism vs cartoon, or high-poly vs low-poly. It's also about style, bland vs stylized. WoW, for example, is cartoonish and low-poly, but stylistic to an extreme. Rift is mixed; a lot of what's actually accessible to the average player is realistic, but bland as hell.
TOR looks high poly enough, but cartoonish in a very bland sort of way. Odd combination, I think.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.