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Clueless -> Buying a mac computer: WoW
Hi and thanks to whomever may respond,
So, I've been off world of warcraft for over a year or so. When I played, I did so on a macbook pro 10.5.8.
I'm planning on starting again (raiding/heroics) and purchasing a new desktop in the process, but I have little relevant experience or knowledge concerning mac desktops and their use for gaming. Basically, I don't know what to buy...
If anyone had specific recommendations or knowledge to share I would appreciate the help.
Additional Information:
-it really needs to be a mac computer
-budget hits $1,000 max, hopefully price somewhat lower
-from what I've researched, a mac mini seems to be what I'll be looking at buying
-As for graphic cards (I saw nvidia geforce 320m vs ati raedon and there were many arguments for and against...), # Ghz, 2GB/4GB memory and such...I haven't figured out how exactly they apply to gaming.
I came across mmorpg after reading some comment recommending this site as I searched google and the like
Again, thanks.
Comments
For starters, Good Luck with -Has to be a mac, $1,000 cap and hopefully lower...Macs Are Expensive. Anything Apple is overpriced imo. I'm not saying they aren't nice, I don't want to anger the Apple Hippies, they are just WAYY overpriced.
13 inch $1200->$250017inch macbook pro http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macbook_pro?afid=p219|GOUS&cid=AOS-US-KWG
This macbook is a 1000 http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macbook?mco=MTM3NDcyODY
but for 1000 bucks I could build a better pc. If it wasnt a Macbook, would you still be set on a Laptop?
The best advice I could give you, really would be to head on over to maximumpc.com forums and wrap your head around building a pc.
The guys over there will help you with your budget, help you decide between parts, find deals--and the building.
If you do it once, youll be hooked.
Picking out parts, comparing prices, finding exactly what you want, ordering, anticipation of getting your order and putting it all together----then the pride with having put your pc together! Lotta fun and you will have a solid machine.
I hope you realize that the Mac Mini does not come with a monitor, keyboard, mouse, etc...
As for the $1000 price cap you have I'd just go for the $999 mac book. At least you have a keyboard and monitor.
If you must have a desktop, and you could be patient enough to save up another few hundred you can get the base line iMac.
Does it really, really need to be a mac? You're basically paying a HUGE premium just for the apple O/S - as the hardware is not only overpriced, but often much lower spec'd (and much harder to upgrade, lacking software compatability etc) than the PC equivalent.
Not saying they are bad, but buying a mac on a budget, especially for gaming... sounds like a no-no to me.
http://www.randompics.net/wp-content/main/2010_08/1282847851602.jpg
If it does need to be a mac, I'm sure someone will be able to help you out a bit better.
No, a mac mini is not what you want.
I am a huge mac user and the mac mini just doesn't have the umph you need. Either go desktop, macbook pro or get a pc.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
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Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I have to agree with the last posters, that if you are looking for a gaming machine a PC would stretch your computer budget much much farther.
I dearly love Macs for graphics, film and audio work, but for gaming PC just blows them out of the water. Since Apple went back to being a proprietary company they really have become the Marks and Spencer of the computer world.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
This is the truth. I'm also a major Mac user since '93. You will not be happy with a mini, especially for gaming. If your budget is $1000 then you'll have to buy used or factory refurbished.
I have a couple year old Macbook Pro that I do both work and gaming on, and it does the job adequately. I am saving up for a PC though. For the money you can't beat a PC as a gaming rig. Not to mention the game selection.
Current: None
Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR
Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu
Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
I'm sorry, but for $1000 you can barely GET an Apple computer, and you simply will not be able to afford one that will will be capable of any kind of gaming, plain and simple. World of Warcraft may be an old game, but they up the system requirements considerably with every expansion. Whereas the base game played just fine at very high settings in 2005 on my Radeon X800PRO, WOTLK could easily bring my 4870 to unacceptable framerates (shadows+Sholazar Basin = GPU pain).
Now, you could probably bottom out the settings so much, that even a $1000 Apple would play the game. I used to play the game at minimum settings and 800x600 on the go on a Turion X2 based laptop with a Geforce 6150, and usually would get 20fps or so. It sucked, but one could do it. Just because one can doesn't mean it's pleasant, however.
On the other hand, you could get very nice Windows desktop for $1000. It would be fast, easily capable of playing WoW at high resolution, with high settings, at 60fps.
So what do you want for your big sum of money, a scrape-the-bottom minimum spec Apple, or a mid-high end Windows PC? Exactly what is it the Apple would do for you that's so essential, because I'm sure we could come up with something equivalent in Windows 7, function-wise, without making you pay most of your $1000 for it.
If you need a Mac, and you also need a gaming machine, then you're better off buying a gaming PC and a cheap (preferably used) Mac as two separate computers than trying to buy a Mac that will run games well.
Just to put things into perspective for you, click this link to see how much a particular video card costs:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102878
The cheapest Mac you can get that will offer signficantly over half of the graphical performance of that video card is the $2000 iMac with a Radeon HD 6970M. The cheapest you can get a Mac with graphics that will perform better than that card is a $2700 Mac Pro that comes with an obsolete processor that launched in 2008. Conversely, if you get a PC, you could grab that video card and buy various other parts and have a nice gaming PC for under $1000.
It's true that Ebay seems to have older Intel Mac Minis for as low as $300-$400, but that's still an aweful lot of a $1000 budget.
Personally, I think it's more prudent to just accept that "budget" and "Mac" don't really belong in the same sentence. Macs are for people who can honestly say "I don't care how much it costs", and with $1000 to spend, that just isn't the case. While that's an accomodating budget for a PC, it's such a slim budget for a Mac, that frankly, OP, I really think you have a dichotomy here: you can either get a Mac, or you can get a gaming machine.
If 1000 USD is your budget, you should not get a Mac. They are premium products at a high price.
Get a Windows 7 computer instead. If it needs to be a Laptop you could get a M11x or an Acer 3820! They have good graphics cards and are good gaming machines for their small size.
A budget Mac is not going to have Graphics power sufficient to play WoW. Simply the GT320 is a low end solution that will barely play the game on the lowest settings with a PC. Games played on a Mac actually require a more powerful video card to do the same thing due to lack of DirectX. (DirectX is quite powerful at making games effecient). Everything below $1000 has one of those packaged inside which will make the game unplayable. You either have to increase your price limit by $1000 or get a PC instead. A PC at $500 will outpace the performance of any Mac under $1000 in WoW.
The Mac Mini doesn't have a GeForce GT 320. It has a GeForce 320M. It's integrated graphics that Nvidia made custom for Apple, based on the GT216 die. It's the most powerful integrated graphics ever made, though that will change enormously on June 14.
I like Macintoshes.
I happen to have a Mac Mini. It plays WoW fine, but you do have to turn down many of the graphics options.
The base Mac Mini + Monitor/Keyboard/Mouse can be got for a good deal under $1000, so the price isn't a problem.
Keep in mind Mac Minis aren't the best gaming computers, they are made to be either light duty general purpose computers (people who mainly read email and browse the web) HTPC computers (hooked up to your TV mostly watching videos), or high density low cost servers (20-50 of them all plugged into a wall and networked together to make a small low cost server farm).
They will game a little bit, but it's not really what they were meant to do. The same deal with the base model Macbook - it's essentially the same hardware, the Macbook just comes in a laptop, whereas the Mini is a stand alone. In all likelyhood, your Macbook Pro will run the game better than a new Mini/Macbook, because it has a dedicated mobile graphics card.
The $1000 budget really leaves you with no other options if you want to game. The iMac line is much better suited for it, if you can stretch that budget up to $1200 to get the base model (you get a Sandy Bridge CPU, much better graphics, and a built-in screen/keyboard/mouse).
Granted, what everyone else is saying about a PC being cheaper for the hardware, that's all true, but I don't regret any of my Macintosh purchases, and never hesitate to suggest them when I think it's a good fit. They have a high premium on the performance, but they are also top-notch quality, include all the right options and connectivity, and have the best customer service and technical support network of any computer manufacturer, so I don't feel that the money for the premium price is wasted. Plus they can run OSX, which I love, and Windows XP/Vista/7 (both via Bootcamp, and via virtualization), so you get the best of both worlds.
Gaming computers though, Macintoshes aren't very good fits. Sure, you can do it, but performance-wise they are behind the curve. If you do things other than game (school work, graphics design, video editing, just love OSX), and want to do some gaming on the side, then by all means, and I have done this myself (I have 3 Macintoshes in my house right now). But if this machine is mainly for gaming, you can get the same performance from a PC that costs half as much, and I game on a PC that I built just for that purpose, even though I use my Macintoshes for nearly everything else.
Well, everyone, thank you very much for the corrections and information. It looks like I've been sorely amiss in some of my views concerning the mac line of computers.
I see that I need to consider what functions I intend to use the computer for; whether strictly for gaming or school & gaming to the side. And as for functions...I've greatly underestimated the abilities of other systems that can perform better for lower.
Quizzical and Ridelynn, your suggestions for purchasing or building a pc (though I'm pretty worried I would screw up trying to build a computer) specifically for gaming and buying a mac to the side is something I had not considered, thank you. The price disparity is much more significant than I realized.
With the knowledge that I actually already have a monitor and keyboard/mouse (mac)...
(it would have been better If i had stated such clearly)
...and assuming I saved $200 more to raise the cap,
...would either of you be able to provide a price estimate for a good (likely strictly) gaming pc, keeping in mind I want to buy a mac to the side for schoolwork (typing up essays/youtube/internet surfing for the most part with a lot of tabs).
...Or any other advice/alternatives you would recommend me considering. I'm clearly fairly ignorant. I appreciate anything that anyone would think noteworthy.
http://www.maximumpc.com/forum/ <--See that. Go there. Make an account. Find the forum HELP ME BUY/Help me Build. And even if you dont want to build it, or have a friend help you (dont you know someone who could help you out, or a shop you could have build it for you?) they could reccomend prebuilt PC's that are still a deal. They would love to help, they live and breathe PC
If you do want to build, there are guides on that site as well as a million other places on the internet that will show you step by step....videos even. You could probably even find an old issue of Maximum pc online--step by step walkthru of how to build.
For example, take a look at this post,
http://www.maximumpc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=115242&sid=f68a6d9b72516ce1a69da5b8bed6aca0
The poster wants to spend 850-1000, they gave him a list of things to get-- well priced, high quality components too.
If your planning on spending that much for a PC, check into Microsofts current promotion for college students. Free Xbox 360 for spending more than $700 with certain manufacturers. Should be able to get yourself something pretty decent and have a xbox to either keep or sell off.
http://www.microsoft.com/Presspass/press/2011/may11/05-19MSPCXBOXPR.mspx
While the Mac system can run WIndowsXP/Vista/7 via Bootcamp or virtualization, keep in mind to do so requires purchasing a full version of either Windows XP/Vista/7 which will add to the total cost.
Another option may be to create a gaming PC "hackintosh". You will have to verify all the components you buy specifically to be compatable but its certainly possible to build if OSX is a huge feature for you. Probably want to start browsing through hackintosh threads to find the fastest components you can afford.
Why send someone to another forum when you can get the same advice here, and he's demonstrably already registered here?
-----
If you want to go the hackintosh route, then you should be aware that Mac OS X is a lot more finicky about the hardware you use than Windows is. Microsoft tries to make it so that you can pick whatever parts you want and it will all just work. This is not a trivial thing, and Microsoft is very good at it, actually, which is the main way they earn their money. Apple not only doesn't do this as well as Microsoft, but Apple actively tries not to do it. Apple tries to make it so that if you buy a computer from them, it will just work, and if you try to assemble a computer in any other way, it will completely fail.
A hackintosh will be too complicated for him from the sound of it.
I say SAVE YOUR MONEY AND BUY A NEW iMAC! $1149 with student discount. It comes with everything you need and it has a decent GPU. The 6750m will run wow well enough and will also run other games on high; SC2 DA:O etc. No need to get two different computers.
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Computer-Games-on-Laptop-Graphic-Cards.13849.0.html
If you want a Mac then I'd suggest looking into an iMac. You can get a new one for 1200 and it would be more than enough for WoW and anything else you'd want to do on it. If you want a cheaper Mac then I'd look at a used iMac. They're very good all in one computers the one major drawback is that you cannot upgrade them like you could a desktop. I bought a new iMac 3 years ago and it handles WoW on max settings with no problem. I've since given it to a friend to replace their 8 year old PC and they love it.
As others have said if you want a dirt cheap computer that can play WoW and do other basic stuff then the cheapest thing would be a PC.
Let's see if we can put together a cheap gaming computer. I'll assume that you assemble it yourself, as that can save you quite a bit of money.
All prices including shipping and before rebates:
Motherboard: $68
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128504
Barren, featureless motherboard. But it will fit the components you need for a budget system. And it does have one special feature: it's Socket AM3+, so if a couple years from now, you decide you need a faster processor, you can replace just the processor without having to replace anything else.
Processor: $95 with the promo code
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103921
That's basicaly a misnamed Athlon II X4. 3.2 GHz quad core for $95. What's not to like?
Video card: $110
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102878
Graphics performance comparable to the top of the line iMac.
Power supply: $65 before a $10 mail-in rebate
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817207012
That's basically a rebranded Seasonic S12II, so it's pretty nice.
Case: $50
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147153
Ample room for a budget gaming system, plenty of airflow, and it's cheap.
Hard drive: $60
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136319
640 GB, and substantially faster than what Apple will sell you.
Optical drive: $20
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151233
Memory: $40
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231396
4 GB is adequate for the foreseeable future.
Operating system: $100
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116986
Total: $608
As for where to get a relatively cheap Mac, I don't know.
Macintoshes don't depreciate much until they are pretty well so obsolete that you can barely use them (some of the older PPC-based macs still cost nearly as much used as they did new, for instance). I also wouldn't recommend getting anything used past 3 years old, because then your outside of the Applecare window - and if you've never looked into Applecare, it is quite possibly the most magical program I've ever seen, and worth every penny.
That said, do you still have your current MBP? Those are very hardy machines, and if you plan on keeping that around, $1000 can buy a really nice gaming PC (much better at gaming than even the Mac Pro which costs much much more). If you are trying to squeeze both a gaming PC and a new Macintosh in on the same budget, I don't think you'll be able to swing that, unless you get an exceptional deal on some used Apple gear.
If you absolutely need the new Mac on that budget, the iMac is the way to go. They are very nice machines, I can't say enough good things about them. Gaming they are adequate, and like I said before, that same amount of money can buy a lot better gaming machine (one that games even better than the best Macintosh), but that same machine won't be nearly as "all purpose", have nearly as many nice features (built-in WiFi, Thunderbolt, all-in-one form factor, nice LCD monitor, quiet operation, Applecare, etc), nor will it (likely) run OS X. Bootcamp will cost you a Windows license, that is $100 or so. You can virtualize for free though (VirtualBox), and can even virtualize your Bootcamp partition for light-duty PC-only tasks.
Stay far far away from Hackintosh. Sure, it's fun to play with occasionally, but it has so many quirks and incompatibilities, if you are trying to get any serious work done (or game playing) it's a huge hassle. Every time Apple releases a new update you risk it breaking again, and hardware compatibility is extremely hit or miss. It just isn't a very good option, it's more of a hobby than a solution, although it was a good idea to mention. You'd have better luck running Ubuntu or something.
I looked into your suggestion;
"(dont you know someone who could help you out, or a shop you could have build it for you?) "
...and asking around, I found someone that could build a pc.
I'm going to research and make some additional query's about the imac/hackin/ubuntu before I decide and/or bring it up with the individual I found.
if I go the gaming computer route, I'll have a build and the means to put it together. Thanks.
If not, I'll presumably be more capable of asking the right questions in the process of deciding on another alternative.
Thanks caremuchless, Rydelynn, Quizzical and every poster that has responded in this thread.
I hope some of you would not mind additional questions in the future.