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Balance: The reason why this game is ultimately screwed
Lienhart
Member UncommonPosts: 662
BioWare makes great games, I loved Dragon Age, ME, BG, and all that other stuff but they've always had one problem:
The devs clearly had a hard on for mages.
Best party in DA was, main character Mage, Morgan, Wins, and who cares. Battles consisted of blind folding yourself, throwing a cat on your keyboard, jacking off onto the mouse, and everything dies. This includes playing on "Insane" where you were supposed to use strategy....maybe I'm just used to Blizzard RTS games so RPG using "strategy" makes me go lolololololollolololol.
But yeah, I'm gonna buy this game, and I'm 100% sure we're gonna get FOTM problems, bigger than other games. My question is: which Jedi is a mage?
Comments
I think you have a problem; And don't really know what to suggest....
The game is what it will be ; As far as the game goes it doesn't bother me I will be playing with friends so no pressure to adhere, we will be having fun.
Sadly some people can't cope if they aren't number crunching and beating on someone because their dps is poor or tyhey didn't heal. You are the one that will inhabit my ignore list hopefully you won't buy the game.
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Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
All games have balance problems in some aspects. Every single one. DA =/= KOTOR, not even done by the same BioWare studio and no multiplayer so no need for balance overall. Classes are mirrored in TOR which aids in balance quite a bit. PvE balance is actually against the player right now in the current build of the game. You may have missed all this when you were going lolololololol......
Guess what you're completely wrong, i'll tell you why. Because the people making this MMO are MMO VETERANS, they are not the usual Bioware team. The Bioware Austin studio, which is the one dedicated only to SWTOR, is full of experienced people from Bioware but also from almost every MMO that was launched till today!
The game will not be perfectly balanced, but saying it will be a total mess is BS. You're just speculating because you had complains about other game.
Have a nice day!
you have absolutely no basis for that argument, having never played the game.
ooooooo
speculuation vs speculation? damn son, your logic is tite.
Shrug. GW had FoTM builds continuously and I consider it one of the best team PvP MMO's around, so I don't really see the problem.
You'll as good as always have FoTM builds, so I doubt SWTOR will be an exception to the rule.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
not a good sign for revenues
I want to own property too
In environments like MMOs you can always find ways to improve game balance, but you will never achieve perfect balane.
And no matter how much the devs tinker with balance, there will always be an incredibly vocal minority of players who dedicate themselves to complaining to the devs about how unfair x effect is or how ability y needs to be nerfed.
The key as a player is to learn to stop listening to people who have nothing constructive to say- once you learn to just identify them and tune them out, life is much better.
@ OP- IMO the best party in either DA game was the one you had the most fun playing. Even on nightmare, the games are beatable with any reasonable class combination. Since it's a single-player game, I just don't see the point of looking for maximum utility at the expense of fun. But it's your game too- if that's what you enjoy doing, keep rockin' that AOE.
The recipe for perpetual ignorance is: Be satisfied with your opinions and content with your knowledge.
-Elbert Hubbard
Without being in beta how would you know balance will be an issue ? You might be right but it is way too early to tell.
Ignoring the EXTREME immaturity of the OPs post, I would like some examples of exactly what is wrong with this game itself. Not blanket statements, but exact examples FROM THE GAME. {mod edit}
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
I agree with gamer. Let these people buy the game. They are normally the first to go on my ignore list as well so it won't bother me a bit. The problem with the number crunchers is they are always slowing a team down to check stuff. Three times teaming with them and I never will again. They can enjoy their game that way and I can enjoy mine.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Its just a game and I can acknowledge that sure to some extent balance is important. But this is an MMORPG, if you've ever played any in the past you will know there is no such thing as complete balance. MMORPGs are a work in progress, always changing, evolving.
Also personally I think that fun> balance. This is one of the reasons I love the Dawn of War series and think Starcraft II is boring as crap, for multiplayer. Dawn of War has all the fun and cool stuff, yes its unbalanced here and there. But thats the price they paid to make it a FUN game. SC2 is ridiculously balanced in comparison, but also o total snore-fest. In balancing they cut all the fun stuff, sure it could be imbalanced and abused beyond intent but it was fun. One more fun for emphasis
Like any game there will be FOTM but these usually only matter to the most hardcore crowd, and I have no wish to play with those kind of ppl anymore =P I play with RL friends, guildmates and ppl on my ingame friendlist where dps meters and such mean very little.
Fuck sake I remember doing WoWs Crusader Coliseum 10man when it first came out with a friend and his little brother doing 1500dps each. When you got friends like that the rest better pick up some slack, makes for interesting raids =P
edit:spelling
I dont think a good MMORPG should be designed and balanced for 1v1 PvP. And it should not be balanced for team e-sport matches.
Class differntiation is important. And interesting combat is also important. And if best possible balance is the main goal those things will suffer. You cant have support and utility classes that depend 100% on others to survive and that would be a free kill in 1v1 PvP(but are overpowered in a group). You cant have dps classes with superpowerful attacks on a 20 min cooldown. That would give them a free kill every 20 min...
Both combat and classes becomes boring. There are alot of things that is impossible to do if the game is designed for best possible balance.
Okay, I'm a little confused here. You don't think PvP should be balanced for 1v1 AND it should also not be balanced for team v team either. What it should be balanced for is fun?
I've had this arguement before actually and every time I had it the person making the "fun" argument always seemed to fall into one of two camps. The first felt that whatever toon that they were playing, that was WAY overpowered to be honest, should stay that way and everyone else should just suck it up so that there "fun" was not ruined. The second type complained because they were playing a supremely inadequate toon, by game design not creator choice, and wanted a little more equality in the game to increase the "fun".
So which one of those two is right? Both . . . and neither. It is the balanced toon, both for 1v1 AND team PvP that is the most "fun" for the most people and so that, in my opinion, is what the developers should be aiming for. The different types of toons offer different play styles and therefore different types of "fun" to each player and that it appropriate. A toon meant for CC should be able to lock down an enemy, maybe with a little bit of difficulty, but not to the point that it can hold an enemy to death either. Also a DPS toon should be able to deal some massive damage fairly quickly, but not before he risks that hold lock from the CC enemy. And the Tank and Healer should be able to have there fun as well, especially the Healer since he seems to be the first to die most times.
In my opinion, the "fun" comes in that well balanced class system that allows you to play whatever type toon you want and still have a fairly equal PvP footing, not including gear and skill of course.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
I agree. In fact, they should say that straight up.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
The problem in a game with classes and factions is that the PvP will never be balanced on 1v1. It is a pipe dream that is never going to happen. Expecting is retarded and wasted energy. The only hope is to have a reasonable balance on group PvP. The best way is to make all classes somewhat unique so they can fill specific roles in PvP thata nobody else can do as well. Does not mean that you can have only one role per class either.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
^ This.
That's the good part in games like DDO. As soon as you're balancing PvP you're either duming down all classes to clones or destroying PvE.
Now if you really want balanced PvP you play and FPS in which everyone has the same HP and can use the same weapon or an RTS.
In my oppinion all players play to ''win'' in some form or another. In an mmo this translates to choises that will lead to a ''better'' character that will make leveling or questing or raiding or whatever the players likes doing more efficiently. Thus the players will almost always try to aim for the ''best'' combination of skills/gear/build etc to suit their goal. So with so many players trying diferent builds and skills ''overpowered'' combinations are soon discovered (sooner than a much smaller in comparison team of playtesters would have found). To this process the developers respond by ''nerfing'' or ''buffing'' in order to present the players with a more ''even'' playing field. Thus balance will never be perfect simply because there are so many people trying to get the maximum out of the game. And even if players are not willing to switch to a ''better'' build or class the community ''forces'' people to comply by requiring specific builds or gear restrictions to group or guild events, In my mind mmo's are imposible to balance and the real success of a development team lies in creating content that does not punish those that are unwilling or unable to ''powergame'' their way into godly gear or min-maxing every available aspect of their character. My secret hope is that Swtor will make this posible by shifting the focus of the game away from ''gearscore'' or something equivalent. In short : make the game fun and the balance will follow in time, not the other way around.
If there are no team versus team e-sport matches in the game you will not need to balance the classes based on that. PvP can be chaotic and random. In that case you dont need perfect PvP-balance. No instanced PvP. Only world PvP.
If its done like that the classes can be designed and balanced to be fun and interesting in PvE. They can have abilitys, spells and talents that would be overpowered in 1v1 PvP or in e-sport team PvP. They can also have limitations and weaknesses that would make them underpowered in 1v1 PvP and e-sport PvP. This means classes can be more unique and have very different play styles and roles. Of course they must all have a role in PVE, a job they are good at, that makes them wanted and needed in a group and in raids. They will also be somewhat balanced in very massive PvP. But not at all for 1v1, 2v2, 3v3...
This works if its a PvE game with PvP as something extra you sometimes do for fun. Also I believe it will be OK in a PvP game without instances that is designed for massive world PvP. Like realm versus realm or guild versus guild.