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Combat and Damage
Cthulhuvong
Member UncommonPosts: 433
Now we have several threads about combat related stuff, so I thought I might as well add another 
. Seriously though, this has something to do with the PvP and Weapons threads, but it somewhat brings the ideas together and touches on other things they haven't.
The main thing I wanted to talk about (you can talk about other stuff if you want) is weapon damage. Now in some games, getting hit means taking the same damage, no matter where you're hit. More recently, you see games where being hit in different parts of your body does different amounts of damage. For example, in Counter Strike: Source you can be hit in the head, body, arms, legs, hands, feet, and heart. Each area is delt damage differently. A shot to the head or heart does the most damage, then the body, then the arms and legs, then the hands and feet.
What I'd like to see is something similar to this for FE, where being hit in different areas did different stuff. Like if you were shot in the leg, then you would slow down. If you were shot in an arm your aim would be off or you couldn't use the arm to hold stuff. Head, you be dead. Groin, unconscious or really hindered (crawling only, only 1 hand to carry/use stuff, very weak).
This wouldn't be for all hits to those areas, but for major ones. If you take a little cut or are just knicked by a round then you'd be alright. But if someone smashes your leg with a baseball bat, you should be limping for a while at the very least. Damage shouldn't be general, but specific to what is hit.
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Star Wars: Galaxies - Ibra Olasi (Valcyn Server) [Dead, screw you SOE]
Comments
I think your on the right track with more damage to certain spots, but I sure as hell wouldnt want to be limping everytime I take a leg hit or something.
___________________________
The Golden Rule.
Risk vs. Reward
Well, not every time, but probably more like everytime you get a strong shot in the center of the thigh or the shin bone.
Waiting For: something good
Games Tried: SWTOR, Star Trek Online, EQ, EQ2, Earth and Beyond, Planetside, Lineage 2, Eve Online, WoW, City of Heroes, City of Villians, Auto Assault, Fallen Earth
Star Wars: Galaxies - Ibra Olasi (Valcyn Server) [Dead, screw you SOE]
That is a good question Delgado. For some reason I keep thinking CS when I look at this game rather than Joint Ops/Delta Force type games. But Joint Ops could be an option for a game to follow.
And how much can a person take? I've heard of some tough hombres who've taken a ton before going down. But then there are people who would die from the shock of breaking an arm. Thats a tough on to figure.
I had an idea last night just before I went to bed, but I can't remember it now. GRRRR!!!!!!!! Myabe it will come to me later.
Waiting For: something good
Games Tried: SWTOR, Star Trek Online, EQ, EQ2, Earth and Beyond, Planetside, Lineage 2, Eve Online, WoW, City of Heroes, City of Villians, Auto Assault, Fallen Earth
Star Wars: Galaxies - Ibra Olasi (Valcyn Server) [Dead, screw you SOE]
Joint Ops fopr this ga,me would never work. And I think CS could work, but you would have to take a bit more damage. Problem, the game is huge so imagine walking miles and miles with alot of loot and getting attacked by something and getting killed fairly quickly. That would suck. CS wit a bit more damage would be good. Or is there a better way?
Delgado, by 'more damage' do you mean ability to absorb more damage (ala more health) or ability to deal more damage? From your other posts in the Statless Item thread I'm thinking you mean the former in order to reduce the chances of 1 shot kills.
As I see it, part of character improvement in FE will be gaining Enhancements and Armor that will enable you to absorb more damage. Some perks will give you a bigger 'health-bar', armor and other perks will reduce the number of hitpoints you lose when damaged.
Given a big enough gun and a headshot you could still get the one-shot kill effect.
I'd say the amount of health and damage dealt in CS is pretty close to what I'd like to see brand new characters taking. Experienced characters would be tougher to kill off, but by no means impossible. Even doubling the amount of health an experienced player has would not be protection to getting caught from behind, but it lets you stand up longer to the inevitable highpowered NPC critters.
Of course new players aren't going to have high powered weapons either. Bow and Arrow? Black Powder Pistol? If you get hit, yeah its quite a bit of damage, but the primitive weapon accuracy is poor. No, comments on trained hunters with compound bows please!
So, a fresh character with a black powder pistol could walk up behind my grissled veteran who is sitting at a table playing cards and shoot him in the back. Veteran player is going to be hurting, with a headshot probably dead. But if it strikes him in his back Stryker Plate covering his enhanced dermal armor, well he'll be hurting, and then his modern Colt 1911 is going to empty 12 rounds into the noob as he tries to reload his singleshot pistol. The Vet may bleed out even after that, and is certainly vulnerable to a second noob waiting in the wings... hopefully other respectable players in the bar would protect and assist the vet at this point.
New players HAVE a CHANCE. Its just a SLIM CHANCE. Experienced players can deal more damage, faster, and absorb more damage as well. Buts its there damage dealing ability that really sets them apart. They can take a bit more, but their true survival ability lies in eliminating a greater number of threats more quickly than a new player.
What separates the Noob from the Veteran? Doing quests and paying for Bio-Enhancements and Better equipment. Possibly skills in weapon MAINTENANCE (note I emphasize maintenance over a usage skill, easier to justify). Somebody talk about how getting killed and looted reduces a Veteran back to Noob category now
Yeah, the ability to abosrb more damage, just not to the point of on man runing circles around 20 men and it either taking 5 minutes to kill him or him escaping. Its hard to explain. I want to kill easily, ie: not unloading a full clip into someone and have him still standing in front of me, but easy enough. Just not kill like in a shot or two. I love those types of damage but I just dont think it will fit into this game.
Your idea is a good one Lock. CS damage for nooblets, and so on and so fourth. New comers still have a GOOD chance to kill vets but yeah, vets have the advantage. Man, talking about this game is killing me. I wanna play it already!!
The facts are pretty much finding that fine line between realism and fun. Run and gun is a major must rampant in every single FPS oriented game.
Counter Strike is a good example as it has one shot kills as far as the heads concerned, your burst shots for body shots and the bullet spread is pretty good as well. And the run and gun is almost perfect.
I would have to say that damage punishment should be a little bit more forgiving then CS in the sense you can take a bit more damage. Everything else should be oriented like CS in my opinion. Oh yeah, I just hope the Gods implement a shit load of weapons from US weaponry to foriegn weaponry. The ability to be able to choose between lets say 50 to 100 weapons makes people want to play a game. Personally, I would think around 250 different types of weapons work well.
I hope armor does SOMETHING in this game. Buy a kevlar vest in CS. Its pretty useless. Sure it helps with nades and sometimes headshots, but 2-3 chest shots still kill you. Doesnt that defeat the perpose of a kevlar vest? I hope its like how other, older games have amor. Health 100% Armor 100%. Only armor gets hurt until its down to nothing, then health goes down. Of course this could only count for body shots. If i'm wearing a vest, and get shot in the leg, armor shouldnt go down, health should.
___________________________
The Golden Rule.
Risk vs. Reward
IRL: Kevlar vests only absorb the impact. You still get it, only it doesnt pierce through you. You usually end up with bruises like in paintball somewhat. Some cases have even shown that part of the tip penetrates a bit into the skin. Vests are usually for small arms only ie: pistols. Heavier calibre weapons such as 5.56 and 7.62 usually kill kevler in the sense that once you get hit, the vest becomes lethal as the armor is pretty much shredded at impact point. This means the chance of you getting killed by the vests shrapnel is high.
Military forces usually use armor plating that is carried in tac vests. Not sure how this is on topic but Im just trying to explain a bit how vests and such work. Bear in mind that most bullets are AP capable (armor piercing) so vests are pretty much useless unless you have a more heavy duty one. They bullets they have now can shred vests like a hot knife through butter.
I feel less life and armour making somewhat a difference would encourage players to be more careful but also to prepare more.
If you head out into the wastes in rags and wielding a knife, you might not last too long unless you meet the right people or get lucky.
If you go out in a flak vest or something, a weapon holstered. you would stand a better chance.
Less damage would encourage ambushes, tactics , using cover and such.
Im just picturing a guy running across a waste and hiding behind large rocks and stuff, the other player wielding a high powered rifle, both of them knowing it only takes a few shots to take the other down.
Like those shoot outs in westerns where they are behidn rocks, shooting over, not just rushing out.
The reason combat is ruined in most games ive played is you can just run at each other blindly, because its more important to *get there* and start doing damage, spamming specials and such, as opposed to being careful, your character actually caring for their survival.
As has been said in this thread already, it makes most games really tiresome to do combat.
I think the 'health' of a person should be more when in PvE.
When against critters and stuff you want to be able to enjoy it, you also want it to be realstic, games like counterstrike, the hitman games etc.
you want to pick off the camp of bandits one by one and be able to , not hope to hit your strongest special and take them out as quickyl as possible as they all surround you hitting standard attacks.
Having second thoughts now about the stuff i said :P
Think its definately something that would have to be seen in Beta and tweaked through community feedback.
It's hard to say without knowing what the combat is like or just how dangerous the world is.
As an Aside wearing armour should absolutly effect your movenment speed, and sneaking abilities. As well as your travel endurance. I don't want to see people running across the desert in full on assault armour, only to arrive at a battle seemingly fully rested.
I agree with Cthulhuvong.
What I would be interested in is the aiming. Will you have bullets that pursue your victim like in Neocron?
Mh I think the bullets of arms flew quite slowly. Maybe you wont see this effect that much if they were as fast as bullets should be.
But what about arrows, axes or knives(in case you can throw them at opponents)?
However, I would like to see WRESTLING!!!!
I mean it would be very cool if you could use your strength in close combat. Not just hacking with your sword/axe/whatever but realy put your opponent out of action by holding him or something like that.
You might strangle your opponent or prick your fingers in his eyes.
LOL Mundus great idea LOL and it would fit in the style and feel of the game
You find a building with "objects " that can be inserted into a "object" projector,thus finding old WWF disks that you look at as a ancient fighting style.
something that can be learned on your skills tree in hand to hand combat
Or there can be a NPC in a town with this info already that trains for a fee and buys your old cd disks.
as for the damage well maybee some type of unconscious move,or a crippling move.
but Mundus a most intresting thought