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? SoH beta in two months ?
billie
Member UncommonPosts: 400
reviewing the Sigil and fan sites it seems they are planing retail winter 2005 ?! So, that means they must start the beta soon ( planed 3 to 5 month beta, like they had in EQ1 [July 1998 to Mar 1999.]) And they are even considering GM applications....
Had thought Saga of Heroes would not retail till 2006 or '07.
Comments
As far as I'm aware, it's still a 2006 release date, although I'm sure some of the other guys on this particular forum might know a bit more than I do.
Brad wants a very long beta. If they started beta this month, I would have doubts about the game making it by the end of the year.
Hope i get in
If not it wud be the first one i didnt and this is the only one i actually want to lol
I think Beta will start in september, since Sigil wants a long Beta (8 months should be long enough)
Well i hope it is a long beta because SOE always made their games go out wayyyy too early,
When it's released everyone will make up their mind so it needs to be ready or will lose alot of ppl that wont come bk
I know they want a long beta, but I also know that they're in a business, and part of that business is to stop development and start making money. If the beta begins in early July, I would not be suprised to see the game in stores 12/1/05. A bold prediction given Aradune's words, but like I said, they do need to start turning a profit at some point.
This is >not< SoE, nor does it have anything to do with SoE, so stop comparing Vanguard with EQ(post lucling), EQ2, SWG, and all that crap please.
I think Brad is smart enough to know that a good launch is more $$$ in the long run than a fast launch.
I'm sure he is too, but he's not the only person with a financial interest in the game. WoW was not ready to be released when it was, Blizzard knew that, but Vivendi wanted to start making money so they basically strongarmed them into releasing it when they did, in time for the christmas rush.
But if Vanguard beta does start July 1 or so, that would still give them a full 5 month beta which is a pretty decent length of time, and I think may be something Brad and Microsoft can compromise on.
Of course if beta doesn't start til like august, then they'll have missed the christmas window (don't think 4 months is long enough) and they'll probably go for a 9 month+ beta like they want.
Brad has said that he wants a long beta period for Vanguard. He has also stated that he felt that the 9 month beta period for original release Everquest was just about perfect.
People from both Microsoft and Sigil have complemented one another on how amicable their relationship is, and how there've been few contested points in Vanguard's development direction. They've also stressed (Microsoft personel included) that Sigil is in the driver's seat for Vanguard's management.
Not enough stress can be put on how much faith is lost, and income lost as a result, by releasing a game before it's beta period should be concluded. I don't think that Brad, Sigil as a whole, or Microsoft are oblivious to that truth.
There are limits to that, obviously. If Vanguard is so rocky during it's beta that 9 months into it there's still a ton to be done... well then I think we'll all be in for trouble. But that's not a judgement we can make until then, nor is it constructive to worry about it now.
Bottom line, I would be very surprised by any release of the game before E3 next year. In fact, I'm willing to bet that Sigil and Microsoft are smart enough not to rush the product to hit the holiday season. And will instead use E3 `06 as a marketing platform for the game's release.
-Feyshtey-
I do hope that you're right.
My hopes for this game are probably too high, but I honestly do hope that this is the game that will save the genre, the game that will bring meaning back into MMOs. I had very high hopes for WoW given the promises, it seemed that they had all the answers, but after being 60 for 5 months and running the same raid instance for those 5 months, I'm honestly bored to tears. Enough about WoW though this is about Vanguard.
Perhaps my posts seemed a little misguided before, or at least a little of kilter with their intentions. I WANT Vanguard to have a long beta. I honestly do. I want the game to be 100% ready before it ships, all content ready to roll.
Like i said before, I want this to be the one game to restore meaning to the genre, give players a goal to aspire to, a goal that's difficult enough, but not so hard that it's impossible.
It WOULD be nice to see a game ship with all the features the devs promised...I'm looking at YOU WoW.
Hahaha. Or one that kept you entertained more than 6 months after release. =P
Stop speculating on the release.
Brad already said in an interview that the game will be released next year (probably right after E3 2006)
The thing he didn't mention is when the game will go Beta.
Now we can start speculating about the Beta
My guess is September, but if it s tomorrow I won't complain.
Stop speculating on the release.
Brad already said in an interview that the game will be released next year (probably right after E3 2006)
The thing he didn't mention is when the game will go Beta.
Now we can start speculating about the Beta
My guess is September, but if it s tomorrow I won't complain.
Nothing against Brad but all companies say thier games will be released a lot sooner than they will be. It keeps people interested, helps pre-orders, expands thier fanbase and builds anticipation and momentum. Normally if a company said it will be out in year that means 2 years minimum. Given the Vanguard devs are experienced and have Microsofts financial resources they have the ability to be closer to thier deadlines than smaller companies. But 2006 after E3, absolutely no way. Thats a complete pipedream. They want a longer, than mormal beta which is great amd is good to hear, but that means a 1+ year beta. Plan on a 2007 release.
Off topic, I think Vanguard is the most exciting game in development. But I just don't take any release dates seriously as they are always made for thier marketing hype and not for accuracy.
In house beta testing has begun.
Time to get out our pipes and start smoking.
And no, I'm not joking, according to Brad the in house testing has started.
EQ2 has been released in November 2004, Vanguar will probably be released June 2006, almost 1 year and 8 months later. (that means that Vanguard will spend 8 months more than EQ2 in development)
Sigil is on the same league of SoE, Blizzard and Turbine, although is a new start up company, it has the full support of Microsoft, and it s development team is second to none.
When you work with big companies like Vivendi, Sony, Microsoft or Atari, all the development teams have a release date target, which they must meet (it is part of the business plan).
So further delays are unlikely.
You are dreaming ste. Releases dates are for marketing and hype not for accuracy. What game has ever come close to meeting a release date. None. Look for Vanguard in late 2007. Failing to Meet a release date does not mean incompetence as you suggest as it isd the norm for ever game. Flash unrealistic release dates to gamers is like waving candy in front of children. It makes them drool, builds anticipation, builds thier fanbase, and builds hype. release dates have nothing o do with accuracy they are about marketing and hype.
In regards to the size of the dev team. VG's dev team size is quite small. Especially when you compare it to WoW or EQ2's dev teams.
Lastly VG has a ton of new things they want to incorporate into release. To name a few pereceptions, counterspells, ship battles, diplomacy, city building and so on. New ideas need more thorough testing. This is just one of the reasons Sigil has said they plan on having a beta much longer than the average beta.
Almost all betas take in excess of 1 year. Two notable exceptions to this rule are WoW and SWG. SWG was released after 8-9 months of beta and at least a year early. WoW after 7 months and they had a dev team 4 times the size of most games. After SWG and WoW there are no major releases that have had a beta less than one year.
Using your logic lets say they started hiring gm's in July. Started taking beta applications in August and got beta started in september or October. Believing what they say about beta being longer The earliest we would be looking at release then would be xmas 2006.
This won't happen. If they were going to have beta start in Septmber they would have had the beta hype machine in full gear 6 months ago. Look for beta to start next spring.
Whats amazing to me the is the continued gullability of the fanboy. Every game continually lies about release dates and beta. But the fanboy conviently forgets this for every new game and kneels and screams undying optomism and faith at everything a dev or marketing department said.
If there is an over/under line on beta or release I will always place my money on the over.
Just a few points to consider Zippy :
1. Ramping up the marketing engine a year from a game's release would be foolish. You attract a lot of attention to a game, for which you can only give vaporous mechanics ideas, unrefined screenshots, and a bunch of 'we hope to's'. You build the hype to a unattainable high, which plummets before release, and sales are hurt. And you attract too much attention from naysayers who complain for months and months about the lack of info, and who begin to create doomsday scenarios of vaporware, lies, and deciet.
2. Sigil devs have stated point blank that they will release in `06
3. Brad McQuaid has stated that he would like a 9 month beta.
4. You don't hire a bunch of employees 12 months before they will actually do any work. Specifically, you don't hire a bunch of server gm's that have no servers to gm. And you don't keep the staff of gm's paid over extended periods without having income to recoup their cost.
5. Sigil released this weekend several screenshots of their beta1 content testing. Which suggest that they have a beta1 package together, which they are testing. Which suggests that they are on the verge of beta1 being implemented. Unless you're suggesting that Sigil is going to do an 18+ month beta period, an `07 release date is waaaaaaay off.
6. Most beta's do not take more than a year. I've been in early beta for 4 titles, and mid-late beta for another 6. I've seen no beta exceed 7 months, no matter how badly they needed to. Beta testing a game for excessive amounts of time increases the cost of the game's development, damages the credibility of the game, makes public opinion of the game waver, and provides no income to the developer. Most companies, in a crunch, will put the game out flawed and polish it after release.
7. Sigil's staff size can be smaller than many other companies. They are taking advantage of several pre-built development packages. Which means they neither have to bulid or test those packages seperately themselves (Unreal2.x, Speedtree, etc.). They also have partnerships with Microsoft, Alias (Maya), IDV (Speedtree), and Epic Games (Unreal). Which means they've got a HUGE talent pool to draw from when they hit complications in their systems. They need to staff fewer people because they have more people to turn to in a real crunch.
I would put hard money down on a summer release `06 of Vanguard. As someone who's been heavily active with this particular game's community for well over a year, I can say that this is the best guess of the vets.
-Feyshtey-
Feyshtey:
I respect your post but your wrong on every sinhgle point. I have beta tested almost every major release since eq1. There is no beta test that has lasted 7 months except for wow. Most games are in beta well over a year and sometimes in the case of games like shadowbane 2-3 years. Yes swg was released a year early and had less than a year beta and yes wow is the one exception.
You could point to L2 having only a 5 month beta but the game was released 9 months earlier in korea which had a much longer beta test there prior to that. Most games betas are well beyond a year. Look at eq1, daoc, ao, ac, ac2, and so on.
GM''s are hired for betas. It is the 1st thing a game does before sending out beta applications.
Hype and marketing goes on well before release and it does not cost them money. Well not much money. Marketing and hype are done by releasing information to newsites and forums. Slowly building up anticipation and hype. Release dates and beta hints are all about marketing as well. We are not talking small companies here we are talking mega m,assive corporations that spend 20-40 millon dollars up front developing thier games. They are not stupid. Marketing of a game does not start just before release as you suggest. Rather every step from the 1st announcement of development to release dates, to beta hints, to released game information is finely calculated to grow the fanbase, grow anticpation and make every fanboy want to kill to play thier game. Don't be naive.
I could go on. But its failrly pointless. Rather I would just say I respect your opinion but your completely wrong on every point. You can believe the hype and the fantasy or you can look at the track record of every game that has been released and form the conclusion that announced release dates are never even close to the actual release date.
Best of luck and see you in game in December 2007,
Zippy
Double post my apologies.
EQ2 didn't beta for a year. Eve didn't beta for a year. CoH didn't beta for a year. DAoC didn't beta for a year. I can't think of any major MMORPG that was actually in beta for a year unless they had some serious problems. And late 2007? Unless they run into serious problems that call for a large scale revamp, there is no way Vanguard will release in late 2007.