Memorable experiances mostly come from doing things for the first time or they are fairly unique. Yeah sandboxes could generate more memoreable experiances because of the amount of unique things you can do compared to a copy paste themepark. But lets say you have played a few sandboxes, well that greatly lowers the chance of having great experiances with the next ones.
An with that, I introduce the ultimate method to enhance your gaming experiance so they are always full of new and exciting experiances...well for a while. THE AMNSEIA MACHINE! Step in and forget everything you know about any number of games that could be even remotely similar to the one you want to thoroughly enjoy! See a game and your first thought is "Oh no, not another --- clone" ? Now every game is a completely new experiance. Btw ignore everyone that calls this the Living-Under-A-Rock machine.
But if, as you say, FFA PvP inhibits interactions, then how did said corporations/alliances form in the first place? Shouldn't the interaction required to form the group have been inhibited? By your theory it the game environment itself should have inhibited the formation of these groups.
I'm asserting that corporations form because it eliminates the problem of FFA PvP in player interactions. Yes, corporations form because FFA PvP is there, but I don't see FFA PvP fostering interactions. FFA PvP is fostering tribal thinking so that you know who is us who is is them. Within the us that you work with, you don't have FFA PvP and you do have interactions.
Originally posted by rothbard
As for RL, the vast, vast, vast majority of all "interplayer" interactions are not categorized by violence which would be expected by your theory given the FFA nature of reality.
By your interpretation of my comments perhaps, but that's not my assertion. I said "inhibits" and I'll stick with that word. I'm not saying that pandemonium breaks out the moment people realize that anyone can attack anyone. I'm saying that when I know you can attack me, and there is anything about you that makes me nervous, I'm less likely to initiate something with you. That could be your manner of dress, the color of your skin, the way you walk, the way you talk, anything at all.
Originally posted by Amaranthar
To me this is an important part of where the future needs to go. Causing player interactions by game design, but not forced. In PvP games, some players do interact because of that. Many just leave, but that's a separate issue. But there's other ways to accomplish this, I think, in community efforts. Again, not forced, but as part of the overall game design. This is why I think that player built cities, in a much wider scope than we've seen so far, are so important for the "next gen" in MMORPGs. Imagine cities that offer some real benefits to it's players, and so those players actively trying to help build that city up, and organizing to do so.
I completely agree.
Community goals, in contrast to personal goals, are the next step in the evolution of MMOs. In my opinion, it's the greatest failure of MMOs that they do not have these things. Creating a game in which players are encouraged to pursue a personal agenda makes no sense. So many players ignoring each other as they strive to reach their personal pinnacle.
1) Ultima Online test server: GM turned me into a magical dragon and I morphed into humanoid skin and ran around killing people in a hit or two. Was fun until another dragon kind doing the same thing got the jump on me while I was killing several ppl and killed me lol.
2) Everquest Special Event Server: (Perma death): Never in my life experienced such a tight knit community in-game. Players actually searched for criminals and banded together to bring justice. No one acted stupid else the community would kill them. Everyone was on best behavior besides occasional murderers lol. If you died in-game your character would lose all belongings and go back to level one. Most heart pounding adrenline experiences fighting other players Ever! Never to be experienced again.
I would say that FFA PvP doesn't foster player interactions because everyone is paranoid about interacting with other players.
EVE Online demonstrates to me that sandboxes with FFA PvP only foster paranoia, and that's not conducive to player interactions either. Players fearing to interact is not conducive to a broad spectrum of gameplay.
I would have thought the exact opposite. What are all those corporations and alliances in EvE if not groups of interacting players? RL is canonical FFA-PvP-permadeath and it has no problems with "player" interaction.
Paranoia, fear, doubt....these are all thing that imply memorable. Good or Bad you cannot have one without the other.
thank you JB47394 for pointing out what is wrong with mmo's today and why we feel they are so lack luster.
They might imply memorable to you but to me those elements are entirely forgettable. To me fear and paranoia in video games are entirely laughable. I experienced more fear and paranoia in one day of elementary school than any MMORPG could provide me.
I guess for some people this kind of stuff could be memorable but to me they are trivial memories.
But as far as GTA is concerned, and eve online.... yes
anyone else honestly forget the old GTA? the first time you go on a tank rampage?
what about GTA Vice CIty, and San Andreas, I have many memories of playing those games..
EVE online I think is an extreme example, because you make the game, your actions makes things happen, so it becomes alot easier to remember the events, I think thats the key, as others will also be part of those actions and events.. even if they werent part of it themselves..
However.... sandboxes are not unique in creating these memorable experiences, Im sure most of you will remember a particular time you killed a certain boss, or raced a top lap time, or a great win on a game. When a game is well made, it does not matter the type of game, because a good game will always great memorable experiences
I've played a slew of games, but the two I've played extensively, WoW and Darkfall, are what I'll use here.
In WoW, I was given my first real taste of VOIP interaction with Ventrilo, and had a great time in my first excursions into the Battlegrounds. Great memory from a TP.
In Darkfall, my first time with FFA/full-loot pvp, I played with a group of fellow noobs who were focused on one veteran player. We hid around a corner, and when the bad guy came around, we zerged the poop out of him. He later came with us on our noob excursions. Great memory.
I've had many, many great memories from both games, but none I can think of involved just me. There was always at least one other person involved, usually a whole group of us.
I still play Darkfall, so my bias is shifted more toward the SB, but as far as game memories go, I'd say the two are equal for me.
But if, as you say, FFA PvP inhibits interactions, then how did said corporations/alliances form in the first place? Shouldn't the interaction required to form the group have been inhibited? By your theory it the game environment itself should have inhibited the formation of these groups.
I'm asserting that corporations form because it eliminates the problem of FFA PvP in player interactions. Yes, corporations form because FFA PvP is there, but I don't see FFA PvP fostering interactions. FFA PvP is fostering tribal thinking so that you know who is us who is is them. Within the us that you work with, you don't have FFA PvP and you do have interactions.
Corporations form because it is an explicitly supported game mechanic and a method of individual players pooling resources, etc. No different than guilds in any other game (e.g. WoW). Are guilds formed in WoW so has to avoid be killed by PKs? No. They are part of the game and people like to be a part of a group. No difference here.
Originally posted by rothbard
As for RL, the vast, vast, vast majority of all "interplayer" interactions are not categorized by violence which would be expected by your theory given the FFA nature of reality.
By your interpretation of my comments perhaps, but that's not my assertion. I said "inhibits" and I'll stick with that word. I'm not saying that pandemonium breaks out the moment people realize that anyone can attack anyone. I'm saying that when I know you can attack me, and there is anything about you that makes me nervous, I'm less likely to initiate something with you. That could be your manner of dress, the color of your skin, the way you walk, the way you talk, anything at all.
Which is entirely and perfectly normal. To change that requires some mechanic to force it (e.g. make everyone the same). It is a concept completely divorced from human experience. Why should a game world be any different? It is humans playing the game afterall, and humans tend to associate with whom they choose.
Originally posted by Amaranthar
To me this is an important part of where the future needs to go. Causing player interactions by game design, but not forced. In PvP games, some players do interact because of that. Many just leave, but that's a separate issue. But there's other ways to accomplish this, I think, in community efforts. Again, not forced, but as part of the overall game design. This is why I think that player built cities, in a much wider scope than we've seen so far, are so important for the "next gen" in MMORPGs. Imagine cities that offer some real benefits to it's players, and so those players actively trying to help build that city up, and organizing to do so.
I completely agree.
Community goals, in contrast to personal goals, are the next step in the evolution of MMOs. In my opinion, it's the greatest failure of MMOs that they do not have these things. Creating a game in which players are encouraged to pursue a personal agenda makes no sense. So many players ignoring each other as they strive to reach their personal pinnacle.
This is total nonsense. There is no such thing as a communtiy goal. A communtity is an abstraction and not some independent agent capable of formulating a goal or having values. Only the players, individually, have goals. A community goal is simply a goal that happens to be shared by a large number of players, for whatever reason. Trying to force community goals is in reality simply the developer imposing their own goals.
Players ignore each other because there is no need for interaction to progress/survive in the game. This is the massively-multiplayer-single-player-rpg. Players will always pursue their own agenda. There is no way to change this. The key to what you desire is allowing more realistic constraints on the game world that make cooperation with other players valuable and/or necessary to achieve one's own goals.
As a side effect this also solves your FFA PvP bugbear. Given that other players are in most cases about as relevant as cardboard cutout NPCs, the only difference being they can talk in chat, it is perfectly normal to expect the addition of FFA PvP to turn the world into Serial Killer Online?. Since no one really needs the other player to do anything, the other player as no real power of him, and there are no real "physical" or social repercussions for killing him, there is no incentive not to treat the other player as simply a mob. Gankland is a symptom of FFA PVP in a world where the characters simply don't matter, not of FFA qua FFA.
I side with yes. Nothing more fun and unscripted in a sandboxy game like Darkfall (but pick your title) with nearly 100 players on a city siege attacking and defending. Dynamic, real-time tactical and strategic player-centric organic game-play fun.
My most memorable experiences in a MMO was EQ, which is technically a themepark. I've also got some good memories from VG. I've played most of the other themeparks like WoW, LOTRO, WAR and AoC etc but nothing memorable jumps out.
I feel the difference between these games is the game worlds. EQ and VG games worlds IMO offer loads of immersion whilst the others is more of a paint by numbers game.
I can't comment on sandboxes. The only one I've spent a decent amount of time in was UO for a couple of months before I moved to EQ, but still I have more fond memories of UO than I do modern day themeparks.
I have fond memories of both. However, I recognize that my themepark memories typically revolve around the groups and people I played with.I remember my friends and I accomplishing something. The sandbox memories, particularly in UO and even Darkfall, are memories of the game itself and the players I was with.
I side with yes. Nothing more fun and unscripted in a sandboxy game like Darkfall (but pick your title) with nearly 100 players on a city siege attacking and defending. Dynamic, real-time tactical and strategic player-centric organic game-play fun.
? This kind of thing happens in Lineage, Lineage 2, DAoC and Aion too, which none of them are real sandbox games.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I side with yes. Nothing more fun and unscripted in a sandboxy game like Darkfall (but pick your title) with nearly 100 players on a city siege attacking and defending. Dynamic, real-time tactical and strategic player-centric organic game-play fun.
? This kind of thing happens in Lineage, Lineage 2, DAoC and Aion too, which none of them are real sandbox games.
I was just about to say the same thing.
What differs with the sandbox games is that you can build cities yourself and that the players play positions like king and so on.
But the real memorable stuff is not building a city with your guild, it is a battle between 2 sides which your side should loose but due to one reason or another you actually win. At least to me, some people might get a memorable kick out of crafting or something.
I voted no. I hardly remember anything from my days of playing UO. Even most of what I've done so far in EVE is pretty forgettable. Yet my memories of EQ, EQ2, and WoW seem to stick out more. While I know the majority of people here would disagree, I think it stems from sandbox games most of what you do is mundane, chop trees, build fences, shoot rats, parry sheep... where the idea behind a themepark is to be more epic and more memorable. I also think most people will recall PvP experiences from sandbox games much more than PvE experiences.
Hell even the NAME should be a dead giveaway here. Who remembers playing in the sandbox? But who remembers riding a rollarcoast, turkish twist, or pirate ship?
Why not break the words down further like Sand and Box, do you remember Sand, do you remember the Box? How about Cardboard Boxes, do you remember Cardboard Boxes?
My most memorable moment in a MMO was Planetside (even though I prefered wwiionline). I was in a team attacking a base, the base was the one where the airpad was on the 2nd level up top, and there were windows all around you could see into a large room where you can spawn air vehicles, it was also near the area to hack the base, and we had about 40 infantry charging up there to get inside to hack, and there were about 40 enemy infantry inside in positions to provide fire to any attackers entering in the 2 doors at every conceivable angle. Anyone entering will die an instant death.
So the attackers halted at the doors and took up positions to insta-kill any defenders leaving the doors. For 5-10 minutes the attackers and the defenders had a stand-off, nobody went in, nobody came out, all we did were taunt each other by standing on the window ledge looking in and looking out. There are taunt emotes with verbal taunts in Planetside.
That's what I remember from Planetside, that's what I enjoyed, not the grinding, not even particularly the shooting, that stand-off for some reason sticks in my mind.
Themeparks have the advantage of giving the players something really cool, like a cinematic/ twist in plot/memorable NPCs etc.
I played Elder scrolls as much as anyone but I can't recall a single NPC's name. On the other hand, I will never forget 'Fall from grace/ Morte' from Planescape: Torment.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
I have voted yes as the only sandbox game I have played was SWG Pre-CU and I have the happiest most memorable gaming experiences ever. I had a weaponsmith shop and traded my goods with people who regularly visited. I remember I had a waiting area that was full of people there to buy my wares. They were talking and roleplaying about their experiences, news and the best places to trade. It just felt so real and like we were all part of the actual world our characters were playing in. For me that's the big point, if a game can make you feel like your actually living and breathing in the world your playing in then that is what delivers epic memorable moments. That is what an MMORPG for me is all about.
For me Theme Park games just dont offer this. There is just too much convenience and too much hand holding that takes all the character out of the world. For example, WOW you dont even need to travel really, once you have hit the highest level you can sit in Stormwind and just use the Dungeon Finder and Battlegrounds. It isn't a world, it might as well be a console multiplayer game. No character, no real depth.
I imagine part of this phenom is created by the overwhelming majority of Sandbox play being mind-numbingly boring. Then when something halfway interesting happens, it feels that much more momentuous an event.
All my memories of EVE were of falling asleep while playing the game, and cowering in a starport not playing the game because my corp was at war. Memorable mostly because it sucked in a unique way I hadn't encountered in gaming up until that point (most games I played up til that point felt like they were trying to entertain me.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I have voted yes as the only sandbox game I have played was SWG Pre-CU and I have the happiest most memorable gaming experiences ever.
For me Theme Park games just dont offer this. There is just too much convenience and too much hand holding that takes all the character out of the world. For example, WOW you dont even need to travel really, once you have hit the highest level you can sit in Stormwind and just use the Dungeon Finder and Battlegrounds. It isn't a world, it might as well be a console multiplayer game. No character, no real depth.
Just my opinion!!!
This. This is being screamed by hundreds of thousands of SWG, UO, Planetside and other sandbox games, gamers.
Themepark will not work in the long run. When I buy SWTOR I am going to have fun exploring the world one time. Much like WoW, everything will be nice and tight. Cinematic, bread crumb quests that guide you through the world. The downside? The world does not change.
Why would I go to Tatttooine after I have seen everything? The world will not be fought over, the resources, cities and so on is not part of the equation. It will just be the same static NPCs standing there. The "soultion" for them is just to make instanced pvp and a simplified crafting system.
The world is not alive. Just because you see another player doing the same quest you already did, does not make the world alive.
Look at EQ. It gets worse as themepark games expand. why? because their only model is to expand because people are bored with the old areas. why are they that? thats because its a lame and uninteresting world that is not fun or possible to change.
GW2 seems to try and fight this by having quest/event/chains(call it what you want) that are somehow dynamic. there will be a certain egosystem that players can impact and thus the idea is that the world will feel unique and different depending on players investment and how they do.
Its a cool enough idea, but we will have to see in practice if it really will make the world feel fresh years after release. It might end up feeling predictable and static just like quest games. We will have to see.
The idea in the sandbox is that the players shape it. towns, crafting, pvp.. everything is built by the player. they are the agenda. its not on rails.
Problem? there has never been a sandbox game that truly worked. They all had issues. So sandbox games to me are the goal. They are the true MMORPG. The themeparks are glorified and enlarged Diablo 2 online campaigns with lots of more players. They are not what MMORPGs are about to me.
MMORPGs should be about giving experiences not possible in normal games. Instanced battlegrounds in pvp take it to normal games. same with quests. does are concepts from "normal games". the whole idea of going to zone to zone at different levels is like that too. it makes everyone go through the same thing. even if they are split by faction or class or race, its still the same thing in the end.
In a sandbox game no two servers are alike. one server will be ruled and controlled by a bunch of players, while another one has a monopoly on certain items. Sandbox games empower players. They are the ultimate virtual commentary on sociology, and thats whats interesting.
I voted No however after taking a much longer time to think about it i actually want to say yes, but deep down my memorable experiences have been shared equally by both sandbox and theme parks, there wasnt so same amount option.
I'll do say that sandbox experiences give out a more unique feeling of purpose than a theme park
But im gonna have to tell you guys a story, which is of course tl;dr , therefore ill just say this and you can move on if you wish:
Sandbox experience are unique due to them not being predetermined and being more enviornmentally dynamic compared to a themepark, yet themeparks hold their own by having controlled situations , to produce high dynamic situations that are visually enjoyable to watch and very engaging to participate in.
just this moment ill consider planetside a sandbox,
we rallied together at our homebase, 80 strong, i was a pilot backed up with a small team of engineers responsible with upkeep and repairs of all vehicles and portable devices. we moved out in unison to enemy territory, knowing that the enemy empire was occupied with another warring faction, we seized this moment to cause as much damage as possible with hearts content; at there expense.
We arrived and set up shop, parameters and patrol way points given out to all pilots. we needed to watch for enemy activity and relay it back to HQ so the ground troops can prepare; we were invading a base at the time, so our goal was to yell for any sign of trouble so the troops at the invaded base will have time to prepare.
a good 10 minute ran like water, my attention wanned between looking at the radar and flipping over neogaf.com seeing how many tools were yelling about DarkFall will be the second coming of christ, or was it Vanguard..or was it Light and Dark.
I get a barking yell of a possible confirmation off of ventrilo, "look alive possible enemies incoming, Gold 10 check it out"
Gold 10 was one of the pilots Id's , you get a number when joining the group, gold 10 was that pilots number for the time.
"Holy crap 7 Galaxies inbound", basically 7 ships housing 10 soldiers on each ship (around 70 troops) were heading to the Base we were invaded-- they wanted to finish off our ground troops at the base we took over.
We had a dozen aircraft at that moment, it was a grand race against time to shoot down all 7 galaxy ships before they reached our ground troops destination.
The rush, the thrill of serving a once in a life time purpose was all there. it wasnt predetermined, scripted, flashpoint, instanced, or any of those code monkey words.
it was simply right place at the right time, and just this once everyone on both sides participated in something we would remember for a very long time.
Comments
Memorable experiances mostly come from doing things for the first time or they are fairly unique. Yeah sandboxes could generate more memoreable experiances because of the amount of unique things you can do compared to a copy paste themepark. But lets say you have played a few sandboxes, well that greatly lowers the chance of having great experiances with the next ones.
An with that, I introduce the ultimate method to enhance your gaming experiance so they are always full of new and exciting experiances...well for a while. THE AMNSEIA MACHINE! Step in and forget everything you know about any number of games that could be even remotely similar to the one you want to thoroughly enjoy! See a game and your first thought is "Oh no, not another --- clone" ? Now every game is a completely new experiance. Btw ignore everyone that calls this the Living-Under-A-Rock machine.
All of my worst exeriences have been tied to sandboxes... so, yes, they're memorable
Honestly, I think the most memorably experiences are more tied to community than the game itself.
I'm asserting that corporations form because it eliminates the problem of FFA PvP in player interactions. Yes, corporations form because FFA PvP is there, but I don't see FFA PvP fostering interactions. FFA PvP is fostering tribal thinking so that you know who is us who is is them. Within the us that you work with, you don't have FFA PvP and you do have interactions.
By your interpretation of my comments perhaps, but that's not my assertion. I said "inhibits" and I'll stick with that word. I'm not saying that pandemonium breaks out the moment people realize that anyone can attack anyone. I'm saying that when I know you can attack me, and there is anything about you that makes me nervous, I'm less likely to initiate something with you. That could be your manner of dress, the color of your skin, the way you walk, the way you talk, anything at all.
I completely agree.
Community goals, in contrast to personal goals, are the next step in the evolution of MMOs. In my opinion, it's the greatest failure of MMOs that they do not have these things. Creating a game in which players are encouraged to pursue a personal agenda makes no sense. So many players ignoring each other as they strive to reach their personal pinnacle.
Music is the main cause for nostalgia so I would say games with great music!
My most memorable gaming experiences:
1) Ultima Online test server: GM turned me into a magical dragon and I morphed into humanoid skin and ran around killing people in a hit or two. Was fun until another dragon kind doing the same thing got the jump on me while I was killing several ppl and killed me lol.
2) Everquest Special Event Server: (Perma death): Never in my life experienced such a tight knit community in-game. Players actually searched for criminals and banded together to bring justice. No one acted stupid else the community would kill them. Everyone was on best behavior besides occasional murderers lol. If you died in-game your character would lose all belongings and go back to level one. Most heart pounding adrenline experiences fighting other players Ever! Never to be experienced again.
They might imply memorable to you but to me those elements are entirely forgettable. To me fear and paranoia in video games are entirely laughable. I experienced more fear and paranoia in one day of elementary school than any MMORPG could provide me.
I guess for some people this kind of stuff could be memorable but to me they are trivial memories.
I cannot say for many other sandbox mmo's...
But as far as GTA is concerned, and eve online.... yes
anyone else honestly forget the old GTA? the first time you go on a tank rampage?
what about GTA Vice CIty, and San Andreas, I have many memories of playing those games..
EVE online I think is an extreme example, because you make the game, your actions makes things happen, so it becomes alot easier to remember the events, I think thats the key, as others will also be part of those actions and events.. even if they werent part of it themselves..
However.... sandboxes are not unique in creating these memorable experiences, Im sure most of you will remember a particular time you killed a certain boss, or raced a top lap time, or a great win on a game. When a game is well made, it does not matter the type of game, because a good game will always great memorable experiences
shhh... you might wake the trolls
I've played a slew of games, but the two I've played extensively, WoW and Darkfall, are what I'll use here.
In WoW, I was given my first real taste of VOIP interaction with Ventrilo, and had a great time in my first excursions into the Battlegrounds. Great memory from a TP.
In Darkfall, my first time with FFA/full-loot pvp, I played with a group of fellow noobs who were focused on one veteran player. We hid around a corner, and when the bad guy came around, we zerged the poop out of him. He later came with us on our noob excursions. Great memory.
I've had many, many great memories from both games, but none I can think of involved just me. There was always at least one other person involved, usually a whole group of us.
I still play Darkfall, so my bias is shifted more toward the SB, but as far as game memories go, I'd say the two are equal for me.
I side with yes. Nothing more fun and unscripted in a sandboxy game like Darkfall (but pick your title) with nearly 100 players on a city siege attacking and defending. Dynamic, real-time tactical and strategic player-centric organic game-play fun.
I found it a hard question to answer.
My most memorable experiences in a MMO was EQ, which is technically a themepark. I've also got some good memories from VG. I've played most of the other themeparks like WoW, LOTRO, WAR and AoC etc but nothing memorable jumps out.
I feel the difference between these games is the game worlds. EQ and VG games worlds IMO offer loads of immersion whilst the others is more of a paint by numbers game.
I can't comment on sandboxes. The only one I've spent a decent amount of time in was UO for a couple of months before I moved to EQ, but still I have more fond memories of UO than I do modern day themeparks.
I have fond memories of both. However, I recognize that my themepark memories typically revolve around the groups and people I played with.I remember my friends and I accomplishing something. The sandbox memories, particularly in UO and even Darkfall, are memories of the game itself and the players I was with.
Beating the odds (usually against other players but even sometimes in PvE) is what make memorable experiences.
I have a few great ones from Lineage and that sure isn't a sandbox, it was more initially like Diablo with PvP and more players.
So no, I don't think so. A game doesn't even have to be good to create a memorable experience.
? This kind of thing happens in Lineage, Lineage 2, DAoC and Aion too, which none of them are real sandbox games.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I was just about to say the same thing.
What differs with the sandbox games is that you can build cities yourself and that the players play positions like king and so on.
But the real memorable stuff is not building a city with your guild, it is a battle between 2 sides which your side should loose but due to one reason or another you actually win. At least to me, some people might get a memorable kick out of crafting or something.
Why not break the words down further like Sand and Box, do you remember Sand, do you remember the Box? How about Cardboard Boxes, do you remember Cardboard Boxes?
My most memorable moment in a MMO was Planetside (even though I prefered wwiionline). I was in a team attacking a base, the base was the one where the airpad was on the 2nd level up top, and there were windows all around you could see into a large room where you can spawn air vehicles, it was also near the area to hack the base, and we had about 40 infantry charging up there to get inside to hack, and there were about 40 enemy infantry inside in positions to provide fire to any attackers entering in the 2 doors at every conceivable angle. Anyone entering will die an instant death.
So the attackers halted at the doors and took up positions to insta-kill any defenders leaving the doors. For 5-10 minutes the attackers and the defenders had a stand-off, nobody went in, nobody came out, all we did were taunt each other by standing on the window ledge looking in and looking out. There are taunt emotes with verbal taunts in Planetside.
That's what I remember from Planetside, that's what I enjoyed, not the grinding, not even particularly the shooting, that stand-off for some reason sticks in my mind.
Themeparks have the advantage of giving the players something really cool, like a cinematic/ twist in plot/memorable NPCs etc.
I played Elder scrolls as much as anyone but I can't recall a single NPC's name. On the other hand, I will never forget 'Fall from grace/ Morte' from Planescape: Torment.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
I have voted yes as the only sandbox game I have played was SWG Pre-CU and I have the happiest most memorable gaming experiences ever. I had a weaponsmith shop and traded my goods with people who regularly visited. I remember I had a waiting area that was full of people there to buy my wares. They were talking and roleplaying about their experiences, news and the best places to trade. It just felt so real and like we were all part of the actual world our characters were playing in. For me that's the big point, if a game can make you feel like your actually living and breathing in the world your playing in then that is what delivers epic memorable moments. That is what an MMORPG for me is all about.
For me Theme Park games just dont offer this. There is just too much convenience and too much hand holding that takes all the character out of the world. For example, WOW you dont even need to travel really, once you have hit the highest level you can sit in Stormwind and just use the Dungeon Finder and Battlegrounds. It isn't a world, it might as well be a console multiplayer game. No character, no real depth.
Just my opinion!!!
I imagine part of this phenom is created by the overwhelming majority of Sandbox play being mind-numbingly boring. Then when something halfway interesting happens, it feels that much more momentuous an event.
All my memories of EVE were of falling asleep while playing the game, and cowering in a starport not playing the game because my corp was at war. Memorable mostly because it sucked in a unique way I hadn't encountered in gaming up until that point (most games I played up til that point felt like they were trying to entertain me.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
This. This is being screamed by hundreds of thousands of SWG, UO, Planetside and other sandbox games, gamers.
Themepark will not work in the long run. When I buy SWTOR I am going to have fun exploring the world one time. Much like WoW, everything will be nice and tight. Cinematic, bread crumb quests that guide you through the world. The downside? The world does not change.
Why would I go to Tatttooine after I have seen everything? The world will not be fought over, the resources, cities and so on is not part of the equation. It will just be the same static NPCs standing there. The "soultion" for them is just to make instanced pvp and a simplified crafting system.
The world is not alive. Just because you see another player doing the same quest you already did, does not make the world alive.
Look at EQ. It gets worse as themepark games expand. why? because their only model is to expand because people are bored with the old areas. why are they that? thats because its a lame and uninteresting world that is not fun or possible to change.
GW2 seems to try and fight this by having quest/event/chains(call it what you want) that are somehow dynamic. there will be a certain egosystem that players can impact and thus the idea is that the world will feel unique and different depending on players investment and how they do.
Its a cool enough idea, but we will have to see in practice if it really will make the world feel fresh years after release. It might end up feeling predictable and static just like quest games. We will have to see.
The idea in the sandbox is that the players shape it. towns, crafting, pvp.. everything is built by the player. they are the agenda. its not on rails.
Problem? there has never been a sandbox game that truly worked. They all had issues. So sandbox games to me are the goal. They are the true MMORPG. The themeparks are glorified and enlarged Diablo 2 online campaigns with lots of more players. They are not what MMORPGs are about to me.
MMORPGs should be about giving experiences not possible in normal games. Instanced battlegrounds in pvp take it to normal games. same with quests. does are concepts from "normal games". the whole idea of going to zone to zone at different levels is like that too. it makes everyone go through the same thing. even if they are split by faction or class or race, its still the same thing in the end.
In a sandbox game no two servers are alike. one server will be ruled and controlled by a bunch of players, while another one has a monopoly on certain items. Sandbox games empower players. They are the ultimate virtual commentary on sociology, and thats whats interesting.
very interesting question.
I voted No however after taking a much longer time to think about it i actually want to say yes, but deep down my memorable experiences have been shared equally by both sandbox and theme parks, there wasnt so same amount option.
I'll do say that sandbox experiences give out a more unique feeling of purpose than a theme park
But im gonna have to tell you guys a story, which is of course tl;dr , therefore ill just say this and you can move on if you wish:
Sandbox experience are unique due to them not being predetermined and being more enviornmentally dynamic compared to a themepark, yet themeparks hold their own by having controlled situations , to produce high dynamic situations that are visually enjoyable to watch and very engaging to participate in.
just this moment ill consider planetside a sandbox,
we rallied together at our homebase, 80 strong, i was a pilot backed up with a small team of engineers responsible with upkeep and repairs of all vehicles and portable devices. we moved out in unison to enemy territory, knowing that the enemy empire was occupied with another warring faction, we seized this moment to cause as much damage as possible with hearts content; at there expense.
We arrived and set up shop, parameters and patrol way points given out to all pilots. we needed to watch for enemy activity and relay it back to HQ so the ground troops can prepare; we were invading a base at the time, so our goal was to yell for any sign of trouble so the troops at the invaded base will have time to prepare.
a good 10 minute ran like water, my attention wanned between looking at the radar and flipping over neogaf.com seeing how many tools were yelling about DarkFall will be the second coming of christ, or was it Vanguard..or was it Light and Dark.
I get a barking yell of a possible confirmation off of ventrilo, "look alive possible enemies incoming, Gold 10 check it out"
Gold 10 was one of the pilots Id's , you get a number when joining the group, gold 10 was that pilots number for the time.
"Holy crap 7 Galaxies inbound", basically 7 ships housing 10 soldiers on each ship (around 70 troops) were heading to the Base we were invaded-- they wanted to finish off our ground troops at the base we took over.
We had a dozen aircraft at that moment, it was a grand race against time to shoot down all 7 galaxy ships before they reached our ground troops destination.
The rush, the thrill of serving a once in a life time purpose was all there. it wasnt predetermined, scripted, flashpoint, instanced, or any of those code monkey words.
it was simply right place at the right time, and just this once everyone on both sides participated in something we would remember for a very long time.