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AlBQuirky
Member EpicPosts: 7,432
Sorry for stealing the quote from a different thread, but NightAngell got me thinking (look out!)...
Originally posted by NightAngell
I have been in the past when i use to play UO-EQ1-DAOC-Vanillia WOW but it's long since gone. The genra has died and now we are in the middle of a change that is main stream solo, non community co-op RPGs passing themselves off as MMOs.
How does one define community?
Is it in-game socialization?
Is it message board participation?
Is it other things I am not thinking of right now?
Just curious to see how others see this term defined. Feel free to elaborate 
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
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I think a big part of community is in-game chatting and also use of message boards. But more than that, it is a reason to help other people, who you may not even know. It's about overcoming personal pride and prejudice for a common good. It's about building patience and tolerance to help those less fortunate out, because you know that by doing so, you enhance your own game experience.
To help further explain, I found this on wikipedia:
German sociologist Ferdinand Tönnies distinguished between two types of human association: Gemeinschaft (usually translated as "community") and Gesellschaft ("society" or "association"). In his 1887 work, Gemeinschaft und Gesellschaft, Tönnies argued that Gemeinschaft is perceived to be a tighter and more cohesive social entity, due to the presence of a "unity of will."[3] He added that family and kinship were the perfect expressions of Gemeinschaft, but that other shared characteristics, such as place or belief, could also result in Gemeinschaft. This paradigm of communal networks and shared social understanding has been applied to multiple cultures in many places throughout history.[4] Gesellschaft, on the other hand, is a group in which the individuals who make up that group are motivated to take part in the group purely by self-interest. He also proposed that in the real world, no group was either pure Gemeinschaft or pure Gesellschaft, but, rather, a mixture of the two
From your original quote, the older games operated largely by Gemeinschaft, whereas the newer ones operate primairly on Gesellschaft.
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To me personally... the bar was set by DAoC. There was actual realm pride. I never once looked at other realm mates as "competitors". There was a wonderful US vs THEM atmosphere.. and everyone in the realm was US. I have not had that experience in any other game since (including the modern DAoC).
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100% on this. In being patient and helpful, you can aid somebody in becoming a better player. By better I mean more knowledgeable, perhaps more willing to help others, more likely to have server pride, all the good stuff that makes for a an improved gaming experience for everybody.
The simplest way to define it is positive interaction between players. The game is what matters and is what people actually play, and forums are supplementary to that, so in-game community is more important. Usually, forums are somewhat of a reflection of the in-game community anyway, hence why there's usually a lot of flaming on the WoW forums
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I totally agree, there was a certain magic in DAOC which has been lost to history. Guess it was just a "perfect storm" of good features that all meshed well together.
I remember people randomly coming to help me, and I in turn helped them. I'd go out of my way and spend 1/2 an hour trying to rez another group in a tough dungeon, and the same was always returned in kind.
There just was more in-game socialization (between strangers) than you will ever see today.
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I used to be really fond of socialising in MMOs, ten years ago, but I got burnt out and cynical because of the ever-growing numbers of players I grew to despise. The ninja-looters, the gear/gold beggars, the players constantly wanting power-levelling for a few levels, players who went /afk in dungeons/quests who expected everyone else to carry them, the guilds/corps/whatevers full of drama queens and backstabbing cliques, the inarticulate cretins who couldn't string a word together that was more complex than "plz" ... and so on and so forth.
Sad to say I couldn't care less about what passes for "community" these days. I know there will be some great players out there who I'd be glad to know, but I just can't muster the enthusiasm to sort the good from the garbage any more. I like MMOs now mainly for the player-driven market in items I want to buy or sell. I'll socialise with RL family and friends who play, but never with strangers now. A pity, but...
I would imagine most people feel this way, at least those who remember the strength of the communities in some of the older games. Surely even a lot of the people newer to the genre must be fed up with the incohesive communities provided by MMOs today.
It isn't necessarily the people that are changing (apart from perhaps the playerbase being younger), it's simply the way the games are designed. In the older MMOs, there was almost always forced grouping and serious death penalties; you needed to interact with others to progress. Everyone knew everyone to some extent, which meant that if you were rude to people, everyone would eventually know of it and it would be impossible to play without completely rerolling, which brings me to my next point. There were no 'dungeon finders' where you would meet players you'd never meet again; there were no server transfers if you happened to annoy people or ninja loot.
The point I'm making is - it's in human nature to be devious at times, but in the older games there were unwritten rules and other penalties which would prevent or at the very least seriously discourage this type of behaviour as well as straying from the community. The more recent MMOs can almost be compared to lawless societies. Everyone is free to do as they will because the games aren't designed with communities in mind, they're designed as single player games where you can troll and grief to your heart's content without being penalized, because the other players simply don't matter.
Even I'm guilty of this, though I'd obviously much prefer a return to the community based MMOs (note the 'Multiplayer') whose systems encouraged a strong community and little deviation.
You think that the community in Everquest was full of mature older men and women? Huh?
If the community for MMORPGs is shifting it's age demo to something, it's getting older. Players once teens continue to play and bring in their friends, so more games cater to them, and it forms a loop. I'm ready to bet you 5 silver that your woes and negative interactions are due to fully grown adult men ages 24-45.
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Come to think of it, I'm not entirely sure. The most prominent thing I rememberfrom EQ was a lot of middle-aged men finding their future wives etc and parading them around at fanfaire, but there were also quite a few younger players, though you would almost never find any early teens. From my experience playing WoW, the people that I've played with are almost exclusively in their late teens / early 20s, but I've witnessed 12 to 14 year olds posting about how they play WoW on their facebook and boasting about it to their friends. I've played with perhaps two or three people who are over 40. Maybe you're right, though from my experience there seems to be a LOT more younger players. Who knows, I certainly don't have the statistics on hand.
It seems that "community" takes on a few aspects.
There seems to be community between single players as they interact with other players, which I admit is going downhill.
Then there is the community of a group. That also seems to be going downhill.
The community of message boards seems to be not as pertinent as the others, but does factor in a little bit.
Is it the games or the players or a little of both that seems to be bringing the whole community downhill? I am thinking it is pointed more towards the players today. The games may help the new "bad players" be who they are, but I think game mechanics or not, the bad players would still disrupt the various communities.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR