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CCP Pann asks for concerns...
Brenelael
Member UncommonPosts: 3,821
in EVE Online
CCP Pann has started a thread on the official forums about player issues with the Leaked internal memo, Prices in the NeX, Incarna in general and other related issues. This thread has exploded into a 50 page, 1500 post 'Threadnought' in a matter of hours! The answers a lot of people seek will come in the form of an official CCP memo tomorrow but there are a couple of devs addressing some concerns in the thread itself. It's a very interesting and very looooonnnng read.
Bren
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Comments
Be nice if you could've copy/pasta'd the dev replies...
Now I have to scrounge through the whole damn thing and find dev posts...
They've dug out valerie to take the bullet?
Ouch. They must be desperate.
CCP Manifest is posting the vast majority of the replies. Just do a search for his posts.
This one is of particular interest though:
CCP Pann
Posted - 2011.06.24 00:50:00 - [126] - Quote
Report
The newsletter was not fake. I guess this is how it feels when someone reads your diary, something you hadn't intended anyone else to see. Not to deflect the heat but to explain why what I'm about to say, I wasn't involved with writing it. The only reason I mention that is because I am not going to presume to know the minds of the people who did have comments in there. I am not going to throw people I love under the bus or to the lions or whatever. I can't/won't answer questions about what they said or why they said it.
Our newsletters are written as a means to bring about discussion (that sometimes can even become heated debate) among our coworkers. That's really all I can say about it. I am not a game designer. I'm a mouthpiece. I'll admit it. By the time I get involved, the decisions have been made. Not making excuses for myself, just explaining.
I guess the leaked newsletter was genuine. They are going to have to do some serious damage control on this one but at least they came out and admitted it finally.
Bren
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The 1st dude that posted on the thread added links to the more important dev posts. You can see them at the bottom of his post and read them for yourself.
Update: Overnight the 'Threadnought' has grown to almost 140 pages and well over 4000 posts! It's growing at a rate of about a new page every 5 minutes! By far the vast majority of the complaints revolve around the leaked internal newsletter and how exactly CCP views their customers. The #1 question that has yet to be answered is "Will Aur be able to buy non vanity items?". Hopefully the bulletin they promised today will address this issue. This is starting to appear to be the SWG NGE all over again. CCP had better do something quick or a lot of angry players will be leaving en-mass.
BTW: don't bother looking for new Dev posts as there hasn't been one since page 50 or so.
Bren
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I don't know about enmasse, but a couple of folks posted screenshot of their cancelled accounts in our alliance forums.
Probably will accelerate should CCP confirm they'll considering "power" items in EVE. (though it seems WOD and Dust514 will likely have them)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Well after about 5 failed attempts(one lasting about 6 months) I was finally really getting into EVE and than this happens. I will most likely still play but this just plain sucks. I like Incarna as not being able to 'connect' with your character was one of my main complaints in the past. I do however side with the players on this one after finding out that the newsletter is in fact genuine. No company that was built on the backs of their community like this one has should ever turn on said community and view them as nothing but suckers for fleecing. I would have never used the NeX anyways as I seldom use cash shops in any game but it's pretty obvious that CQ was rushed for the purpose to get it into the game as soon as possible. It's really the only uniquely useful item in the CQ at this time besides the main viewer which is nice but not necessary. CCP really screwed up on this one and they know it. Their next move could make or break EVE.
Bren
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You and many others have made comments like this, I read the entire memo and at no point did I see any sort of derogatory references or insinuations.
Yes, it was obviously they are weighing us, their customer base, to determine how much money they can draw out of us without driving us away. This is normal, it's what every company does, I work for a financial institution and we do this sort of thing all the time. (Maximizing our revenues and profits)
It was obvious that the opinions within CCP are divided, but one thing that's clear is they are all working to figure out how to make themselves more money. There is nothing wrong with this sort of behavior, and to expect CCP to operate in any manner but as a business is non-sensical.
Now, I won't be happy if they decide to sell power items on the cash shop, and might leave should such a thing occur and affects my enjoyment of the game. (key point btw)
But from their viewpoint, if the changes they put in add 2 customers for every person like me who leaves then the right decision for them is to move forward. (and for me to move on)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
this is the best gif that explain CCP reaction
tell them to make a big thread on official forums
edit look at this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4YHvtEJgBc
BestSigEver :P
That comment wasn't meant to be my feelings over the newsletter it's how the overall community feels the newsletter was intended. I have read it and saw it for what it is... An internal company 'Brainstorming' session but even you can surely see how a lot of players are getting very bent out of shape that a company that they felt they knew and could trust would even be considering such things. There was a trust between CCP and their community like no other game has had and that newsletter took a big crap all over that trust. CCP is going to need to rebuild that trust or there will be a massive void detaching them from their playerbase. The cracks have already started and they run very deep. A game like EVE needs that trust to survive as the very nature of the game demands it.
Bren
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Right now, I'm starting to wonder if Eve Online will survive this debacle. I've read over the posts and I have to say that this is, by far, worse than the NGE Incident. Maybe I read it wrong, but when CCP Manifest tried to joke with the posters, it seemed to only make it worse. I know corporate greed is one thing, but I've been seeing a constant and utter disresepct for the players in those posts.
Even more insulting is the fact that this CCP Soundwave refuses to step up to answer anything.
Jon, Bill, Isabella, Susan, what are your concerns on this?
Personally, I think we might be seeing an end of an era. (Notice the word "PERSONALLY")
“Greed is good”…
This problem traces its roots back to a discussion one year ago when CCP made its first comments about micro-transactions. After a whole lot of back-and-forth between devs and players, after consultation with the CSM, and after an aborted idea to provide remaps for PLEX, a promise was made to limit MT in EVE to only apply to vanity items. Fast-forward to Fanfest 2011, E3 and AT9, when Dust 514 was a common topic of discussion, and when the concept of AUR was revealed. Suddenly, the realisation began to grow among a larger crowd that PLEX-based MT could be used to influence — albeit indirectly — the course of the EVE universe. This already had some people's teeth on edge.
…and then people saw the Fearless issue.
a good point
-via http://eve.beyondreality.se/NeXCQResponse.html#greed
BestSigEver :P
End of an era definitely. That begun a bit longer ago though.
CCP is actively bleeding talent internally. Internal satisfaction is dropping hard. That wasn't the case before, previously they were known for having a good working environment to draw in people from other continents.
And it's the end of an era for Eve, as it's now official that CCP wants to sell convenience, which directly means the game design for people who do not pay extra on top of their subscription will be deliberately inconvenient.
I wonder if the reduction of saved fittings from practically limitless to a harsh limit is part of this..
The 'Threadnought' is at 170 pages, well over 5000 posts and growing rapidly. The newest development is an absolutely huge amassing of player ships at the statue in Jita awaiting a response from CCP. This reminds me of the in-game protests in SWG after the NGE was implemented. If you want to help bring the Jita shard to a grinding halt login, hop in your ship and head on over there. So far they are saying it's the single largest gathering of ships in one place in the history of EVE. This is EPIC!
Bren
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Are they over 2k yet? If not, it's not the largest gathering.
(The largest peaceful gathering it might be, though)
Like most people I use forums just to gather information in some aspect of the game or find solutions to technical problems. I feel that I should also add that I am what is termed a “casual player”. I tend play EVE for a few hours a week, and at times I just log on to update my skill queue and quickly log out. Although i admit there are times when I will play for feverishly for hours on end, but for the most part, I can only spare a few hours a week and sometimes I can’t spare that. In many ways I’m the typical EVE player. The one that doesn’t post in forums raging about something I see as trivial. The one that couldn’t give a shit that my fitting is 10% less efficient than it could be. In truth I’m the proverbial blip on the radar that most players don’t notice or cares about. But I’m also the customer that that CCP wants. That is a male between 20 and 40 with a disposable income and has always played video games and has no intention of giving up his hobby.
My first MMO was the original Everquest, a game that at the time was ground-breaking. I have since played a number of MMOs, some better than others. I think EVE is a special game, it offers something unique that other MMO’s don’t. Most MMOs are like rails. You begin at level 1 and you work you way up like everyone else, moving zone to zone until you reach the endgame, in which you either grind PvP or raid. The beauty of eve is that a sandbox game where there is no set path, where my journey in the game is unique and where the economy matters as much as blowing stuff up. This gives the game a layer of complexity that other games don’t have, it also enriches the experience and the immersion. Knowing that I bought a ship that someone built from a blueprint and some ore that someone else took the trouble to mined is both satisfying and reassuring in some vague way. Staring at a portrait with someone wearing a monocle knowing that they paid real money for is not. In some ways it trivialises what the game is about. I could if I wanted to buy one. But is there any real merit in it?
The trouble I have with vanity items is they are not truly a part of the game. No player waited patiently for weeks to gain the skill to make or research it, nobody went out and got the raw materials. No player went and did missions and accumulated enough ISK to go and buy one. Instead someone brought out their credit card and paid cash for it. Vanity items are nothing new in games, and they are in almost every MMO I’ve played. I’m used to them. Although I will quietly grumble or sneer at anyone who is stupid enough to pay for their cheesy pink unicorn or that (frankly stupid looking) monocle, I eventually ignore and get on with it. Although I say that, I can’t help but feel that the integrity of the game has in some way been compromised; even if it is in a small way. But when I stumbled across this thread and read the “greed is good” article that came with it I felt both disappointed and offended enough to take the trouble to type this.
Now I’m not going to go overboard, I do understand that it was an internal newsletter that was meant to stimulate some sort of debate in the future direction of EVE and CCP. Debate is good, it’s part of the process of science and democracy and helps stimulate progress. What I take offence at is that the opinions and feelings of the players are being largely ignored. CCP as a company knows very well the opinion of the playerbase regarding MT. They’ve heard it from the forums and from the CSM and and from every other outlet. It’s no secret how the vast majority of us are against MT. Why go to the trouble of creating a CSM when on the bigger issues you ignore their opinions and concerns? Why do you tell the players that their opinion matters you and that we can in some way shape and influence the future direction of the game when push comes to shove you largely ignore us and worse take us for granted? For a company that seems to pride itself on listening to their players, seem to, at best they pay lip service to the concerns of their customers.
I understand that EVE has to change and evolve that Incarna is part of that evolution and that given time it will enrich the experience of the game. That is so long that it is more than skin deep and offers some unique and challenging gameplay. Incarna in it’s current form has offered very little and I have to question why it was released at all. It offers nothing other than a new way to gaze at your avatar. It’s nice to look at, but so what? It’s what I can do with it that really counts, and in it’s current form that is nothing at all but sit on a couch and that was enjoyable for all 5 seconds. Yes, EVE is a special game, but it’s not so special that I won’t go elsewhere and find some other game to sink my teeth into. Please remember that Everquest was once a special game for me too until a couple of bad expansions ruined it. It takes a lot to make games special but it takes only a small thing to ruin it for players. CCP has been lucky with it enemies so far. It’s a niche game that has faced very little competition. But it’s inevitable that one day a game will come along will challenge EVE for dominance. The question is what state will EVE be in when that day happens. I fear that opening the doors to MT is the first step on the road to the decline of EVE as it takes away it’s integrity and is one step on the road to pay to win. Imagine two chess grandmasters playing chess and one paying $50 to turn his pawns into queens, what was once a great spectacle is now a farce.
The problem is, they've spent the past 8 years (more or less) focussing on how to make a good game, not how to make more money. The sudden shift is worrying and, frankly, extremely concerning.
It's sensical (sp?; is it actually a word?) to assume that they would continue to operate in a manner geared toward product quality, not product prfoit, and 8 years is a pretty strong prcedent; nevermind that that's 8 years of almost solid growth and increasing revenue.
RIFT was a *crushing* disappointment; a shallow, loveless, generic MMO the likes of which hasn't been seen in a P2P format since, well, forever.
Eagerly awaiting: World of Darkness, ArcheAge.