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You, new MMORPG developers, got it wrong
Lukooone
Member UncommonPosts: 153
First MMORPG I played, Ultima Online, I reached the skill cap (700) and then, I pissed, Why 700? omfg!! no cap plz!!!
Then I learned how to mmorpg and realized that the game starts now, I have plenty of things to do : Get mounts, housing(castle?), ship, pvp full-loot victims, pve to cratf in order to do good PvP, explore, craft, war for territory, PvE-PvP fights...
Now you are doing it simply WRONG : reaching full lvl (85?) then... do a little and wait for new content... and wait for new epicz, and wait for a new level cap in the new expansion...
You got it wrong, the game starts, not ends, at full level/skill.
You simply mistaked all the process because you followed EQ/WoW, get back to the right way, plz, look at UO and learn...
But, but, but he attacked me when I was low life!
Yes, HE DID, why you cant do the same to him?
Uf that will take me a lot of time...
HERE IS YOUR QUEST!
Comments
Personally my game should start when i open the application, The moment i start playing is when the game should start, not after X hours or even X minutes.
If i have to wait at all to start having fun or get to the real game then it's being done wrong. I actually played UO and never saw the point of grinding skills just so i can play the real game.
Just my opinion of course.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
As much as I may agree with you, as well as many on these forums will too I imagine...
You can't argue that EQ was vastly more popular then UO, and we all know what direction Blizzard followed when they made WoW (and as such everyone else has followed since.)
Sadly, there are no new sandbox games that are not PvP focused (as in FFA garbage) and even the quote "sandbox" games we do get are SO grind heavy, they might as well be linear theme parks.
Try to make another MMO without gear, without leveling, without questing, without instancing... others try but they keep failing because no one has been able to capture the same magic that UO once wielded.
UO was not without it's serious problems, many of us (myself included) look back with rose-tinted glasses on the experience.
There were, however, many things that UO did right that NO ONE has thus tried to repeat, and that is sad.
Imo there was no grind in UO, it was easy as hell to reach skill cap, no comparison to get full level in nowadays mmorpgs, just because that, the grind was not the point, to play after the full lvl/skill preparation, it was the point... Just saying...
But, but, but he attacked me when I was low life!
Yes, HE DID, why you cant do the same to him?
Uf that will take me a lot of time...
HERE IS YOUR QUEST!
Honestly, for Ultima Online I felt that the game started on character creation. Even a brand new character could potentially gather useful resources to trade or sell to other players. Granted they weren't as efficient at it, but they could still do useful things.
Even for the more 'end game' type content, whether it be crafting expcetional items or killing difficult monster, you didn't have to be grand master in your skills to do those things, you were just slightly less effective at them.
So I will agree that newer MMOs are clouded in end-game nonsense. The entire game from a fresh character killing rabbits for leather to fighting dragons for treasure should have it's place, and not feel like it's a rat race of getting to the 'end' as fast as possible before getting to the 'real' game.
Different tiers of gameplay makes a certain degree of sense.
Although I have heard it mentioned many times that with games like World of Warcraft the "real game" doesn't start until level 85 because that's when you get into guild and raid progression.
There are peple like me who prefer the pre-"real game" because I love story and want to walk through it from the beginning to the end of my journey. While I enjoyed the raiding scene to an extent, I really wanted to be able to enjoy the trek. In fact, a lot of the journey from 1 - 85 seemed to be a bit about learning to play the raiding scene.
Although, it does mean that everything I struggled through gets cast aside as I gear up in the end game.
I don't think that MMOs like WoW will be able to sustain a culture of adding to the level cap with expansions. Eventually they'll be changing the experience at lower levels so that people breeze through quickly (for those who don't want to stop and smell the flowers) and we'll be looking at a cap of 100.
Although this, coming from an altaholic. ξ
I suppose if "new" means most developers post-WOW, then sure.
Most developers get things wrong period. Typically 80% of everything is crap.
But it's not really a problem of leveling vs. endgame. It's more an issue of bad overall gameplay typically.
I mean there are definitely some big ways to improve leveling vs. endgame (particularly to address having to re-run alts through content which becomes tired and old) but those are mostly tweaks to an already-fine system than fundamental, insurmountable flaws.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Hurray for UO! ;p
"meaningful" things to do from day 1.
Forever looking for employment. Life is rather dull without it.
Bravo sir...
Greystaff Legends RPG
I guess it's too much to ask for UO to increase their frame rate of 1 to like something more than 1, and maybe upgrade the graphics a tad.
+1 from me as well. I can understand how people want to play the "UBER TOON!", but for me it is the build up of the character starting at level 1 that is the most fun. I want to feel like I can play and be something from the very beginning. Not an "Uber Toon" by any means, but not a common soldier that is no better than the other 50,000 recruits straight out of Boot Camp that year either. Having to grind skills before you can do that is not fun, it is tedious (In My Opinion).
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
which, oddly enough, i feel every time i play Vanguard. its fun for me from the beginning. can i come close to what lvl 55 players can create, diplo, or fight? no way. is there more content than i can swallow in 2-3 years as i advance? yes. ask most veteran VG players and they will tell you the best content lies between 1 and 50, and, they are absolutely correct.
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
I want my own holodeck, but these developers aren't doing it right.
Well said
, I'm with you on this, I really want the game from min level/skill to max to be fun, I definitly don't mind and in fact like it if a new sort of fun starts when I've maxed one of my characters out, as it gives me a reason to keep play this much loved character.
Even though i have had enuff of the "your in our world now" games i am equally burned on "its your world sir 10 year old" gear grinder games as well...
I think these days its more to do with many being veteran and even jaded mmo gamers caught up in a never ending stagnant cycle of directx induced clone games that are not actually intended or made for veteran gamers needs but are instead always aimed at newbies to mmo gaming and or young gamers to whom the genre is still fresh 'n' new full of magic and exciting because this is where the consistently easy sell and the easy monthly money flow is...
As i like to say:
You have to be a newbie before you can become a veteran and you have to be a burned out veteran before you can become jaded..
Playing GW2..
As meaningful as a bunch of 1s and 0s on some webserver can be.
It's not polite to point out that by and large, people playing MMORPGs are doing nothing but wasting their time. T.T
(Barring a few rare exceptions, like people who do it as a RL job, or who are somehow giving to charity through the MMO)
If you're having fun, you're not wasting time. If you have to suffer the game for weeks before you can even start to have fun, then you're wasting time
I didn't get that vibe at all, but if it really was what he meant, I can agree completely.
Attempts to modernize the client have not been enthusiastic successes. The sheer weight of history makes it a titanic undertaking and your new product is competing with an existing product with a decade of performance tweaks.
(as for the original poster, developers have their hands tied by the money - an MMO is a huge investment, you have to prove there is a market there to serve and that usually means pointing an investor at a successful product and saying "I want to capture 10% of that market"; 10% of UO isn't quite what it used to be)
This is how UO was for me also.
Develper really need to stop thinking about end game so much.
I knowJeff Strains mmo is console only but he does mention many of these things
http://www.tentonhammer.com/undead-labs/interviews/jeff-strain/May-16-2011
We want to drop you into the heart of a zombie apocalypse and let you put your personal survival plan to the test in an open world,
with no predefined quest paths, no levels, no corridors, and no canned character progression;
just you, your plan, your equipment, and your wits.
EQ2 fan sites
Do you mean skill based games -VS- lvl based games..?
Seems to me, you are a tad late on the subject, which has been discussed for many, many years.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
Shame the game is console only... which makes little sense to me considering the fanbase that would enjoy this game the most is more on the PC side of the fence.
Take a proper approach! Rather than complain about what has been done wrong provide solutions!
I didn't play UO so I can't comment unfortunately but so far it sounds no different than WoW, Rift, or any other game. You "level" be it actualy level (85 in wow) or "level" be it skill points (700 in UO?). You "craft" in all of the games for PvE and PvP gear. WoW doesn't have housing or castle, that is correct... But you can go buy legos if you want to build yourself a castle. Or maybe play Minecraft!
I'm bored with WoW style games (which btw is the style of every MMO i've seen in past 10-15 years no matter how much you try to say different)
I'd love someone to really explain and contrast how any past game is really different.
EVE TBH is the only "unique" approach i've seen ever. I hate EvE and think it's boring as hell... But it has a skill/leveling system no one has ever done and it's VAST.
Yes you're right! A good game can't use only level and new dungeons or items to attract the players. There must be some more interesting things except leveling. Then the players will coutinue to play it even when reached the level cap.