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As a former subber who's returned, it's sad to see it's not only F2P but P2W. Am I wrong?
hiphopreigns
Member Posts: 7
With the recent Eve-fiasco (which I'm still currently playing, just waiting to see what happens) I decided to go back and look at a few other MMOs and see how they're doing. I reinstalled SWG (tear) and literally the next day they announced it's death so I just gave up. While I'm on a long auto-pilot trip in Eve, I decided to log in to LOTRO and check out what's new. I had a 40ish LM and 30 Hunter and I did like it for a while back in the day.
Now, let me first say that I'm not 100 percent opposed to the F2P structure with the cash shop, IF they don't have gameplay items for RL cash. Meaning, I'm all for buying optional content, quest packs and expansions, item slots and other LITTLE things like that. So the first thing I did was check out what the shop was all about. Not only did I see the acceptable products, but then I saw things like an insta-rez, permanent character boosting traits, insta-travel... basically things that put the game on easy-mode if you had the cash. Yes, I know it's not necessary. I know it's optional. That isn't the point. The point where an MMO charges RL money for things that permanently enhance your virtual character is where it becomes P2W. People with deep pockets will have the unfair advantage, not the hardcore player.
I only posted this opinion for responses in case I was wrong and missing something. Like the rest of the P2W models, I'm about to let LOTRO ride off into the sunset and hit the uninstall. Am I missing something, or is it indeed Pay-To-Win?
Comments
I think so.
Sorry but I just dont' see LOTRO as being "pay to win" just yet.
You really dont' need anything in the store. You can do any raid in LOTRO and be successful without one thing in the store.
Will it change? I hope not but at the moment one doesn't need any store items.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
What do these players win though for paying for things like the insta-rez? You can't even use them in dungeons. Just makes it more convient in the playing fields, exp gain is for more convience.
The only things I think that push it are the +w/e to stat items, they do drop in game but at a low drop rate so someone with a lot of expendable cash will have a slight advantage in terms of stats on dungeons. But even then, it's hard to win anything since most people are friendly and you can go do pretty much any dungeon with just about anyone as long as they are compatent. If this game had a serious pvp-game you might be right but as it stands, most of the items are vanity or convience.
"convenience" items like LOTR has falls in the grey area between "cosmetic" items such as the 60 bone monocle we both know and love and "p2w" items found in most f2p/no sub games.
the idea behind LOTR items in the item shop is for a no sub person to make small purchases to alleviate some of the drawbacks of not having the 15 bucks a month sub. what they really want is for you to go head and buy the 15 a month sub.
all the best items in the game are still found not in the item shop but acquired through game play.
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins
I think you're missing a couple of things.
1) There really isn't any pvp in LotRO. Any other game that's had the 'pay to win' label slapped on it there's usually pvp involved and things like 'instant health barrels' and 'combat rezs'.
2) Most anything in the shop you can obtain another way. Probably the cheapest thing they have that'd I'd even consider remotely game tipping would be the trait upgrades. Even so they scale for the content.
At worse you'll find someone your level who may have 200 more hp than you. At best you'll have some people who don't play so often remain viable for skirmishes and some of the harder instances.
I think you're being trivial.
I will say that there are some questionable items being sold in the LotRO store like permanent stat increases and the standard overpriced mounts, but I don't see it affecting that actual game that much. As others have pointed out, there is not much in the way of significant pvp in the game and overall the game is not really competitive in nature so I don't think it is that bad.
This is more true than people realize.
Heck, in my talk with Jeffrey Steele at the Turbine PAX booth (I believe it was PAX) he essentially said as much. By that I mean that he indicated that players were more than welcome to play and never pay a dime but that Turbine did hope that eventually players would see the sub fee as the better value if they continued to play and enjoy the game. Paraphrasing but there it is.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I will just say that if one needs the items in LOTRO's shop in order to win, then you truly are a bad player. It'd be like Microsoft selling mine detectors to players of basic Mine Sweeper. "Uhm, yeah, I guess you can detect where the mines are now, but....why do you need this crutch again?"
I played EVE for about 3 years until a few months ago. Decided to give LOTRO a shot and now have a lvl 62 Minstrel.
Anyway, my point is that it is far easier to Pay to Win in EVE than in LOTRO despite what you may think. Buying PLEX for real life cash, and selling it for ISK is far worse than buying preset convenience items.
In fact, there were several cases in EVE where super rich players would fund an entire 0.0 campaign, eg. Russians. I haven't heard of anyone managing to do that in LOTRO with the items on offer in the cash shop.
I think you're wrong.
None of those items are even remotely necessary. If anything it is as another player amusingly alluded to that using them cheapens the game to a level that makes it so stupidly easy one has to wonder why you would bother playing at all.
If it was a PvP centric game it would be a different story.
...but it isn't.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I never understood the "pay to win" moniker that occasionally gets attached to LotRO. How could buying items in the cash shop help me win? Who am I be beating in such a PVE-centric game? Unless Turbine introduces a new mechanic whereby NPCs won't talk to anyone who isn't dressed right, I think I'll be okay thanks.
Personally, I'm more than happy to use the cash shop, and am well aware that what i'm buying is convenience. To echo what others have already said, there's nothing for sale that's going to make me a 'better' player than you. That's a quality you just can't buy!
Lotro is not "pay to win", but it definitely is "pay for progress".
There are several items/abilities you can buy in store for a few 100 TP, which take a very long time to get in game (a lot longer than you would need to grind out the TP with some alt characters).
i couldnt agree more. RMT is the future of mmo's. im sorry to drop that on the mmo community but it is coming. it makes more money than a $15 monthly sub. i could easily spend double that in the shop. blizzard has proved this with their mounts for sale. people want the cosmetic shinies and will pay to get them. as for lotro, everyone has already said it. no game advantage just convenience.
You're definately missing something. The store items hardly let you win anything. If you're on a free account and want additional quest areas, you can get them. If you want that cool cloak or hat, you can get them. If you don't want to buy points, you can earn them in game. Your assumption just doesn't fit.
You are playing a video game. By definition that means you are not hardcore.
I believe it is "Pay 2 Win".....perhaps not as bad as some other F2P games...but definately there.
Pay to Win is advantage in game play...nothing more. It's a "corked bat"....you don't need a "corked bat" to hit well but it definately helps....and it provides you with an advantage that others playing with a regular bat don't have.
It's not a competitive game in the same sense baseball is. However, you are playing against the same content that other players do....and things that you can purchase for real cash that make it easier for you defeat that content are "advantage" pure and simple..
It is not exactly play to win yet, however there are a lot of game breaking advantages. Power,food pots you can not get in game. Reputation mounts. The big one for me is the tomes that give you x number added to a stat.
Pay to win what? Last time I was around, the PvP aspect was pretty much deserted as is.
Considering any item in the lotro store can be obtained purely by playing the game, how is it pay to anything?
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
LoL any item. What about the special power pots, and special foods. The cooks don't make them neither do the scholars. Now the tomes to drop if your lucky. And what about all the cosmetic items.
Sorry there are lots of things in the store you can not obtain in game.
Did you actually mention cosmectic items as something that helps you win? Win what? The Miss Moria competition?
There are items you can purchase that give decent buffs. It's part of how a F2P model works. It generates cash to fund development. Surprisingly, all those coders, artists, etc. don't seem to want to work for free...
You are playing a video game. By definition that means you are not hardcore.
The power pots and speical foods are very nice. But you don't "need" them. You can take on any encounter without them and still prevail. same without using stat tomes. They do make it easier, I will admit but you can still do without them.
The cosmetic items are cosmetic items. I'd rather have the option to pay to make my character look less foolish than not have the option at all.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
The entire point was it that warmaker said was you could find any item that was in the store ingame, that is not true.
Actually it is, as you can earn TP ingame by doing deeds that you can then use to buy the items from the store. So you can get any item in the store purely by playing the game
I've seen items that grant slayer deed bonuses, exp bonuses, crafting exp bonuses, crafting material kits, and some food items etc but I haven't seen anything that makes it P2W as in armor and weapons.
The items I mentioned above just take away some of the tedious grind that comes with most MMORPG's.
Worst part imho is the power pots on 20sec CD. In the hands of a healer they can greatly alter the difficulty of endgame instances/raids, the morale pots are almost worthless there comperatively as are the stattomes, mostly because of the current cap of 650 being to easily reached and pure stats being comperatively weaker than more direct buffs(morale vs vitality etc).
What annoys me with the powerpots is that they touch on the one competetive aspect LotRO has, which is healer performance. A healer using these pots can "waste" more of his power by using quicker more reactive heals instead of power efficient ones yet still appear to handle his power fine. I wouldn't like having to explain why i can't heal in situation x like healer y, and i most certainly wouldn't want to buy pots to archieve his level of performance.
That being said, all content can be healed without them, but if you have a bad group they WILL make the difference and allow you as healer to compensate for it ... if you have the cash.