What I dislike about GW2

maskedweasel · June 2011

Yes I am looking forward to GW2, but there are plenty of decisions Arenanet has made that I am not impressed with or absolutely dislike. Here is my short list. Again, these are MY reasons, others may like these design decisions below, but I however, do not.

1) No Mounts:

Sure, we have fast travel instead, but thats more of a roundabout, fat fingered way to get to where you'd like to go. It has the possibility of being faster in many cases, but you only get to teleport to certain parts, and trudge through everything else you pass by at a nominal speed. On a side note, no mounts in a fantasy game is a step backwards in my opinion. They could have kept with their "innovative" attempts and reinvented some mounted combat, but instead they gave us number 2.

2) Underwater Combat:

Come on now, I'm sorry but this is just cheesy. No movement penalty, magical or technological breathing apparel to explain infinite time underwater. I love underwater exploration, but I love it because in many games theres a large sense of danger because you are out of your element. -- You only have a small window of time to find what you're looking for or you run out of breath. You move slower and have to be more deliberate with where you go. Sometimes certain abilities don't work properly if at all under water, and the enemies you face are made for under water combat so they have an advantage. All these things that have been taken away made underwater adventures exciting and fun. Now its just the ground game with an XY and Z axis and a new bar for your spear gun. (or similar aquatic weapon).

3) WvWvW Roundrobin Matches and Lack of Open World PvP:

No, the mists aren't THE open world. They are an instanced piece of A open world that has absolutely nothing to do with the world you spend your time PvEing in. Whats worse? This world will change weekly, as will your opponents. Not just that but you'll be stacking up against these other "worlds" and if you continuously lose, don't fret, just transfer to that world for free at a later time. Open World PvP in itself gives that feeling of never knowing what will happen next. You could be gathering materials and get jumped by 6 guys in an area just a few hundred feet away from your faction city. In an instanced W v W v W, you know that by going in there, you'll be ganked, and you'll know when it will happen, because you'll be looking to do it yourself when you enter an area with W v W v W objectives.

Further more, W v W v W pits all worlds against eachother, and the idea behind a 3 faction system is to ensure that 2 factions can balance out 1 large faction. In a series of weekly battles where only 1 WORLD can win, 2 worlds teaming up to stop a third, more populated world could happen, but they wouldn't reap any benefits because they both also want the top spot. Not to mention these are just small week long battles, so there is no telling when you get matched up with other worlds if the other smaller world is even willing to cooperate. This issue is brought on by number 4.

4) No opposing Factions, Everyone in your world is a friend:

I get it, lets make everyone on a server friends! That way they'll work better together in W v W right? I don't think so. With opposing factions on the same server, you get to know your enemies, you get to know your friends, and you get to understand how other players work together and choose who you want to be associated with and who you don't. When you're grouped as an entire world, if 5 people form a group and spawn camp or abuse an exploit, the entire world will get a reputation for it. In factional same - server battles, you can simply choose not to play with those acting that way on your factions side. You also can get to know the other players on your server and create rivalries that you can play out day after day and not have to wait until the next week, or the week after that, or the week after that.

5) You get and A for Effort! :

Everyone gets rewards. EVERYONE. Did you just come in and kill that centaur before the event finished? Heres a trophy! Did you only gather 3 bird feathers out of the 100 everyone else gathered? Great job sport! Hey, looks like you spent most of your time in this event rubbing your keyboard on your dog, take this loot! In the same sense that if everyone is a hero, no one is, if everyone is getting rewards, its not much of a reward. Call it elitism if you want, but where I come from, you get rewarded for a job well done, not for just being there at the tail end of something, or deciding to whack a mole on your way to the auction house.

6) Non Dynamic, Dynamic Events:

As was stated by the dev team, you have these Dynamic Events that are supposed to revolutionize the way players interact with the world, but what we've learned about them is that these events are essentially cyclical, they run in a linear path, and they often times have the same old MMO objectives we've seen as Anet was worried about making DEs too complex so that everyone can finish them and 1 asshole can't ruin it by aggroing a boss 2 seconds into the event.

Basically, these events start somewhat dynamically based on a set of objectives, or a timed cycle (every 2 hours, day/night, ETC) and events are sectioned into areas. For example, a bandit camp could form (step 1) raid the town (step 2) then from that point, they build fortifications (step 3) then raid 2 more towns (step 4). The players objectives are to push them from 4 to 1, or from 2 to 1, or just stop them at 1. But tomorrow, it will start again. The same areas, the same objectives, just over a much broader scale than a Public Quest. While the presentation seems great right now, my fear is that it will get played out very quickly when you run through the PvE content through the same areas with different characters. It will end up feeling exactly like every other MMO, with the only major changes being whatever personalized content you choose for yourself.

Well there you have it, thats my short list of dislikes. There is a longer list, but I wouldn't want to get nitpicky with things like the seizure enducing animations, or the introduction of forced abilities on your bar.

I am still excited for this game despite my dislikes, and I have similar dislikes over all games I look forward to. Just because you are looking forward to something doesn't mean you have to like everything about it.

Katody · June 2011

NO MOUNTS?!!! !!

Please tell me you lie!

ihatepugs · June 2011

Where are the mounts?!

DJJazzy · June 2011

Sounds like you prefer a more competitive PVE game, just not going to happen with GW2.

With Mounts, not really needed but I see the appeal of wanting them.

RE: Underwater combat, it looks cool enough but we shall see. I imagine there are a lot of people who think like you. They went with a bit of a gamble in having a significant portion of the content in an underwater setting, it could backfire as there are a lot of people who really dislike underwater stuff.

Regarding the PVP, until we actually get some in depth information about it I will reserve my judgement.

Alot · June 2011

Originally posted by maskedweasel
6) Non Dynamic, Dynamic Events:

As was stated by the dev team, you have these Dynamic Events that are supposed to revolutionize the way players interact with the world, but what we've learned about them is that these events are essentially cyclical, they run in a linear path, and they often times have the same old MMO objectives we've seen as Anet was worried about making DEs too complex so that everyone can finish them and 1 asshole can't ruin it by aggroing a boss 2 seconds into the event.

Dynamic=changeable. I call bullshit on point 6. The fact that these dynamic events have got two outcomes proves your point wrong.

Ikonic · June 2011

GW 2 doesn't feel like a Themepark MMO, its more like a Petting Zoo. All the big dangerous things are kept away and all you get are the nonviolent fluffy things.

zeowyrm · June 2011

I dislike the fact that the game isn't out yet, so there's no way for me to know if I dislike it yet.

Verterdegete · June 2011

1.) Agree. Imho, if something could hurt the game, it's the traveling system.

2.) Strongly disagree. Underwater combat looks great. Not just for PvP, i can imagine even some complex PvE happening under water.

3.) Disagree

4.) Don't care. I play on PvE servers anyway.

5.) You dont get A for effort. You get a reward proportional to your effort and imo that's a great system.

6.) You're asking too much.

xenodude · June 2011

dude i get what your trying to say, but nonetheless i could ive without mounts. hell if i live through all 4 campaigns of the GW1 then why shouldnt i be able to live through GW2?

Underwater battling, doesnt sound so horrible to me. If i can make it frickin rain giant balls of fire from the sky or teleport behind you i can probably cast a spell or make some sort of aparatus to help me breathe underwater(even if it is unlimited).

WvWvW... i sort of agree with you on that one, i guess im just hopeful they'll find a way to make it work.

im tired of fricking oppsing factions in games. If im not mistaken, before WoW few games actually had opposing factions either you could hack at anyone or at no one, and in most games the zones you were allowed to attack people were very scarce. Anyway, the whole point of GW is that you have "organized" PvP and that EVERY SINGLE PLAYERY has the potential of being an ally or an enemy at any given time.

totally agree on the reward system.

I thought DE's were suppose to be totally random. i hope this is true it would make it a hell of a lot more entertaining.

grimm6th · June 2011

1) No Mounts: discussed to death. been there, done that, not going to add anything by arguing a different opinion here, so I won't.

2) Underwater Combat: so...those little details that you think are cheesy and don't make much sense are actually design decisions made based on many people playing many games with each and every one of those things you don't like. If you don't like having your skills change based on your weapon, then I am not sure your tolerance for change is one of your strong suits.

3) WvWvW: I see a fundamental lack of understanding of certain elements of GW2. First, GW, has always been a HEAVILY PvP oriented game, and GW2 is an extention of that. Second, 3 way free for all has indeed been proven to work better for this kind of thing in a game commonly said to have the best (or most popular) PvP...DAoC. Third, you don't have to do it. You aren't getting ganked in PvP like you are in other games' open world PvP. You aren't going to be alone. You have friends...they are your server. Besides, your server will be matched against other servers with similar PvP records.

4) No Opposing Factions: Best design decision for GW2. I understand that it would be aas good for many other games, but there are things in this game that revolve around everyone being an ally...Dynamic Events being one of them. Lore and story is another factor.

5) A for Effort:.......So? Whats your problem with being awarded for participation instead of success (yes...I just asked you the question you answered...hopefully implying your answer didn't mean anything)? This is a casual friendly game.

6) Non-Dynamic Dynamic events: Sorry you feel this way. Other than that I can't really think up a response to this one. Maybe when you play the game, you realize that the game was designed to be fun. If the game is fun then it is a good thing, and your worries about design decisions might as well not matter.

Herodes · June 2011

Woah, masked. This will be a long thread.

I played Rift until level 20 twice and then was bored because of traditional gameplay. But I have a feeling after GW2, TOR, TSW and Archage are released, some people may see, how good Rift as an MMO actually is.

Lord.Bachus · June 2011

Originally posted by xenodude

WvWvW... i sort of agree with you on that one, i guess im just hopeful they'll find a way to make it work.

You should have played DAoC at release to understand that it will work.....

Originally posted by Ikonic

GW 2 doesn't feel like a Themepark MMO, its more like a Petting Zoo. All the big dangerous things are kept away and all you get are the nonviolent fluffy things.

You might actually be surprised.... of what you can encounter just around the corner...

Getalife · June 2011

Originally posted by Alot

Originally posted by maskedweasel
6) Non Dynamic, Dynamic Events:

As was stated by the dev team, you have these Dynamic Events that are supposed to revolutionize the way players interact with the world, but what we've learned about them is that these events are essentially cyclical, they run in a linear path, and they often times have the same old MMO objectives we've seen as Anet was worried about making DEs too complex so that everyone can finish them and 1 asshole can't ruin it by aggroing a boss 2 seconds into the event.

Dynamic=changeable. I call bullshit on point 6. The fact that these dynamic events have got two outcomes proves your point wrong.

Your fact would make more sense if you experinced even 10% of so called thousand of dynamic events in GW2. But nope, you haven't.

Zeroxin · June 2011

Originally posted by maskedweasel
Yes I am looking forward to GW2, but there are plenty of decisions Arenanet has made that I am not impressed with or absolutely dislike. Here is my short list. Again, these are MY reasons, others may like these design decisions below, but I however, do not.

1) No Mounts:

Sure, we have fast travel instead, but thats more of a roundabout, fat fingered way to get to where you'd like to go. It has the possibility of being faster in many cases, but you only get to teleport to certain parts, and trudge through everything else you pass by at a nominal speed. On a side note, no mounts in a fantasy game is a step backwards in my opinion. They could have kept with their "innovative" attempts and reinvented some mounted combat, but instead they gave us number 2.

2) Underwater Combat:

Come on now, I'm sorry but this is just cheesy. No movement penalty, magical or technological breathing apparel to explain infinite time underwater. I love underwater exploration, but I love it because in many games theres a large sense of danger because you are out of your element. -- You only have a small window of time to find what you're looking for or you run out of breath. You move slower and have to be more deliberate with where you go. Sometimes certain abilities don't work properly if at all under water, and the enemies you face are made for under water combat so they have an advantage. All these things that have been taken away made underwater adventures exciting and fun. Now its just the ground game with an XY and Z axis and a new bar for your spear gun. (or similar aquatic weapon).

So you don't like weapons that make sense underwater? You don't like that they made content underwater more accesible due to the large amount of underwater content they have? Definitely don't agree with your opinion on this.

3) WvWvW Roundrobin Matches and Lack of Open World PvP:

No, the mists aren't THE open world. They are an instanced piece of A open world that has absolutely nothing to do with the world you spend your time PvEing in. Whats worse? This world will change weekly, as will your opponents. Not just that but you'll be stacking up against these other "worlds" and if you continuously lose, don't fret, just transfer to that world for free at a later time. Open World PvP in itself gives that feeling of never knowing what will happen next. You could be gathering materials and get jumped by 6 guys in an area just a few hundred feet away from your faction city. In an instanced W v W v W, you know that by going in there, you'll be ganked, and you'll know when it will happen, because you'll be looking to do it yourself when you enter an area with W v W v W objectives.

Further more, W v W v W pits all worlds against eachother, and the idea behind a 3 faction system is to ensure that 2 factions can balance out 1 large faction. In a series of weekly battles where only 1 WORLD can win, 2 worlds teaming up to stop a third, more populated world could happen, but they wouldn't reap any benefits because they both also want the top spot. Not to mention these are just small week long battles, so there is no telling when you get matched up with other worlds if the other smaller world is even willing to cooperate. This issue is brought on by number 4.

As they've said several times, after the initial start of the game and probably a week or two of pairing Worlds up. The weaker Worlds will be placed against Worlds of equal strenght, therefore giving everyone a fair chance. If you were to tranfer for a certain world to another during a WvWvW tournament, there would be restrictions placed upon you. The lenght of these restrictions is unknown.

4) No opposing Factions, Everyone in your world is a friend:

I get it, lets make everyone on a server friends! That way they'll work better together in W v W right? I don't think so. With opposing factions on the same server, you get to know your enemies, you get to know your friends, and you get to understand how other players work together and choose who you want to be associated with and who you don't. When you're grouped as an entire world, if 5 people form a group and spawn camp or abuse an exploit, the entire world will get a reputation for it. In factional same - server battles, you can simply choose not to play with those acting that way on your factions side. You also can get to know the other players on your server and create rivalries that you can play out day after day and not have to wait until the next week, or the week after that, or the week after that.

5) You get and A for Effort! :

Everyone gets rewards. EVERYONE. Did you just come in and kill that centaur before the event finished? Heres a trophy! Did you only gather 3 bird feathers out of the 100 everyone else gathered? Great job sport! Hey, looks like you spent most of your time in this event rubbing your keyboard on your dog, take this loot! In the same sense that if everyone is a hero, no one is, if everyone is getting rewards, its not much of a reward. Call it elitism if you want, but where I come from, you get rewarded for a job well done, not for just being there at the tail end of something, or deciding to whack a mole on your way to the auction house.

There is a threshold every player has to reach to be given a reward for their effort. We don't know what the threshold is when it comes to dynamic events. It may be you should kill 5 - 6 bandits in order to get the bronze reward or something like that but we don't know. We just know that if you help kill something by dealing significant damage to it you will be rewarded for THAT kill and not for anything else.

6) Non Dynamic, Dynamic Events:

As was stated by the dev team, you have these Dynamic Events that are supposed to revolutionize the way players interact with the world, but what we've learned about them is that these events are essentially cyclical, they run in a linear path, and they often times have the same old MMO objectives we've seen as Anet was worried about making DEs too complex so that everyone can finish them and 1 asshole can't ruin it by aggroing a boss 2 seconds into the event.

Basically, these events start somewhat dynamically based on a set of objectives, or a timed cycle (every 2 hours, day/night, ETC) and events are sectioned into areas. For example, a bandit camp could form (step 1) raid the town (step 2) then from that point, they build fortifications (step 3) then raid 2 more towns (step 4). The players objectives are to push them from 4 to 1, or from 2 to 1, or just stop them at 1. But tomorrow, it may start again. The same areas, the same objectives, just over a much broader scale than a Public Quest. While the presentation seems great right now, my fear is that it will get played out very quickly when you run through the PvE content through the same areas with different characters. It will end up feeling exactly like every other MMO, with the only major changes being whatever personalized content you choose for yourself.

There is no definite for when events will cycle. We just know that they will cycle but we don't know when they will cycle. They could cycle tomorrow, they could cycle next week, they even cycle in a different place on the same day. So no, there are no definites for event cycles.

To add something, we don't even know if these dynamic events occur in the same place everytime. So what you're saying in your first paragraph is just based on speculation from what I understand.

Well there you have it, thats my short list of dislikes. There is a longer list, but I wouldn't want to get nitpicky with things like the seizure enducing animations, or the introduction of forced abilities on your bar.

I am still excited for this game despite my dislikes, and I have similar dislikes over all games I look forward to. Just because you are looking forward to something doesn't mean you have to like everything about it.

Your post makes me scratch my head because I don't know why you would post it especially when you know why these things are the way they are and you've already expressed your opinon on these matters several times. I feel that there's something else you are aiming for with this post but I personally find it unneccessary.

AKASlaphappy · June 2011

Originally posted by maskedweasel

6) Non Dynamic, Dynamic Events:

As was stated by the dev team, you have these Dynamic Events that are supposed to revolutionize the way players interact with the world, but what we've learned about them is that these events are essentially cyclical, they run in a linear path, and they often times have the same old MMO objectives we've seen as Anet was worried about making DEs too complex so that everyone can finish them and 1 asshole can't ruin it by aggroing a boss 2 seconds into the event.

Basically, these events start somewhat dynamically based on a set of objectives, or a timed cycle (every 2 hours, day/night, ETC) and events are sectioned into areas. For example, a bandit camp could form (step 1) raid the town (step 2) then from that point, they build fortifications (step 3) then raid 2 more towns (step 4). The players objectives are to push them from 4 to 1, or from 2 to 1, or just stop them at 1. But tomorrow, it will start again. The same areas, the same objectives, just over a much broader scale than a Public Quest. While the presentation seems great right now, my fear is that it will get played out very quickly when you run through the PvE content through the same areas with different characters. It will end up feeling exactly like every other MMO, with the only major changes being whatever personalized content you choose for yourself.

Dude you have no clue what the hell you are talking about, how about you do some research before you start point out things about GW2. Dynamic Events just do not go from step 1 to 4 and cycle. They will advance or stay at a step until there is human involvement. If players are not in the area to liberate the town then it will stay in bandit control until someone decides to take it back. Plus when humans do get involved they do not have to start at step 4 and work their way back to step 1. Developers have already confirmed in the large chain dynamic events you could just skip 5 though 11 and hit number 4 and affect the rest of the chain. So they are linear but player choice is still involved, and by the way you described dynamic events shows that you have not done your research. You apparently just read a few things formed an opinion and now you’re stating it as fact.

Here I will quote myself since I do not feel like typing this out again.

Originally posted by AKASlaphappy

Well if you think about it, MMO questing feels already like a very linear single player game story. What I mean by that is if you take out the 20 quest per quest hub, a MMO leads you from point to point without the ability to deviate from the path the developers put in place. Of course that is only if you follow the quest line, you can completely leave that in a MMO and make your own deviation. But in the end MMO quests feel like a very linear single player game. Now here is where I see GW2 is unique and is vastly unappreciated by all the people that think GW2 fans are delusional; GW2 DEs can be very non linear.

If you watch the PAX west dynamic event design video on you tube (here is a link, watch PAX GW2 Events panel part 1 through 10), you will see a great example of this. In part of this video they describe an area to the fans so they can make a dynamic event that will be added into the game. During this they describe a battle that is happening between the undead of Orr (Zhaitan’s minions) and the Vigil. The Vigil is building basses along a river to try and stop the undead horde from Orr, and of course the undead are trying to take the bases and kill everything in the zone. Now with the undead taking the bases this could be a very linear dynamic event, where you start at the furthest base inland that the undead have capture, then try to push the undead back into the water. Now this is how most MMO would do it, so if there are 5 bases you would have to start at base 5 and then you would get a quest to liberate base 4 and so on and so forth. As I said very linear, but if you watch the video you can see that is not how the GW2 dynamic events are made. In GW2 I could come upon that same situation and I can choose how to take the battle to the enemy. For example instead of attacking the 5^th base inland that they have capture I could decide to go to the base closest to the water and take it back, cutting off the supply lines for the undead army. Then I would attack the undead at the next base where they are weakest, and of course complete the DE by pushing the undead back into the ocean.

Of course both the normal MMO quest chain and GW2 DE will both end in a very linear fashion, but the way you can go about getting to that conclusion can be very different. A great example of this that you can see with single player games is Duke Nukem forever and Crysis. Both of these games are linear FPSs but there is a huge difference between the two games. Duke you have to follow the path the developers made for you while in Crysis I could choose different ways to accomplish my objective. This is exactly what I see Dynamic Events bring to the table that is unique and nothing like any of the MMO quests that have came before it. Now I know some people prefer the DN:F style and that is fine I am more of a fan of the style of Crysis which makes me very excited to see GW2 in action.

This to me is what makes the Dynamic Events in GW2 special and has me looking forward to seeing the high level areas for both the personal story and DEs.

Tardcore · June 2011

Yikes. I can already smell the stench of burnt weasel hair from here.

All in all a resonable list of complaints, but nothing that is a deal breaker for me.

nomss · June 2011

Originally posted by maskedweasel
1) No Mounts:

2) Underwater Combat:

3) WvWvW Roundrobin Matches and Lack of Open World PvP:

4) No opposing Factions, Everyone in your world is a friend:

5) You get and A for Effort! :

6) Non Dynamic, Dynamic Events:

1. You won't need them.

2. They will probably come up with a reason. But if I have to worry about breathing under water, I won't even dip in. So that's like I'm missing about 30%+? of the game. Big chunck probably. Very big loss for ANet and for me. I'm sure other people feel this way.

3. "You could be gathering materials and get jumped by 6 guys in an area just a few hundred feet away from your faction city. In an instanced W v W v W, you know that by going in there, you'll be ganked, and you'll know when it will happen, because you'll be looking to do it yourself when you enter an area with W v W v W objectives."

Kind of agree but in the mist you could be PVEing too, so there IS some element of suprise.

4. You've got it totally wrong. Having factions splits the server. If you had acess to 10k people, now you have access to only 5k. Huge impact on grouping, and you basically destroy the econmy.

5. I guess I see your point. But I'm sure someone who killed 5xxx and someone who killed 1xxx, their reward will be somewhat different, 100% sure on this one.

6. DE will have many chains. It won't be like A -> B -> C -> A. There will be many events that one event will affect. And eventually they will cycle back. I'm sure you can understand that, because they have a team of 200~ not 10k. So each event can not be all unique.

VultureSkull · June 2011

I would like no mounts and no travel system.

This will make travel and different locations to actually mean something, time wise. This makes things a little more realistic IMHO.

I would however prefer mounts over fast travel.

Fast travel is one step away from ""log in sit in the city and auto transport to required location"" which is imho a killer of an MMO world.

Zeroxin · June 2011

Originally posted by VultureSkull
I would like no mounts and no travel system.

This will make travel and different locations to actually mean something, time wise. This makes things a little more realistic IMHO.

I would however prefer mounts over fast travel.

Fast travel is one step away from ""log in sit in the city and auto transport to required location"" which is imho a killer of an MMO world.

Also the maker of "good to go" social mechanics. You want to meet up for a dungeon all the way in Ascalon when you're in the Grove? Port there! Why trek all that way. Trust me when I say the Grove is a looooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnng distance away from Ascalon having someone run all that way is torture. GW1 teaches you that lol.

Palebane · June 2011

3 and 4 are the main reasons I intend to play the game. To each their own.

maskedweasel · June 2011

Originally posted by Alot

Originally posted by maskedweasel
6) Non Dynamic, Dynamic Events:

Dynamic=changeable. I call bullshit on point 6. The fact that these dynamic events have got two outcomes proves your point wrong.

They are as linear as any linear quest that you take. You can either do them, or not do them. When I think of dynamic events I think of things changing continuously, possibly even in random ways. We won't see that here, and while it may be a semantics argument, what we end up with is event chains that are just that, chains, each link moves in its intended path, and backwards in that intended path. If you've seen all stages of the centaurs before, you've seen them 100 times.

Originally posted by grimm6th
3) WvWvW: I see a fundamental lack of understanding of certain elements of GW2. First, GW, has always been a HEAVILY PvP oriented game, and GW2 is an extention of that. Second, 3 way free for all has indeed been proven to work better for this kind of thing in a game commonly said to have the best (or most popular) PvP...DAoC. Third, you don't have to do it. You aren't getting ganked in PvP like you are in other games' open world PvP. You aren't going to be alone. You have friends...they are your server. Besides, your server will be matched against other servers with similar PvP records.

I am all for PvP, my concern is the way these WvWvW matches will work out. While the idea sounds great, you don't have a long period of time to get to know who you are facing, and with the way they allow players to move around who you may end up facing and possibly starting a rivalry with, could move to another server and be completely out of scope for the server you are on. Also, there is no way to protect against ganking in this kind of scenario, and the ONLY thing that I'm hoping for is that this area won't just end up being one large zerg from the server with the most active players at any given time.

originally posted by AKASlaphappy
Dude you have no clue what the hell you are talking about, how about you do some research before you start point out things about GW2. Dynamic Events just do not go from step 1 to 4 and cycle. They will advance or stay at a step until there is human involvement. If players are not in the area to liberate the town then it will stay in bandit control until someone decides to take it back.

This I know, but as I said, the chain is linear, you can choose to do it or not, but if you don't stop the centaurs, they just sit around until you decide to do so. They don't take over the entire world, they move along in their chain, then stop, then you guys get to push them back to whatever stage you want, and they'll just start the cycle over again. It doesn't matter if you kill their lair and all stages in between, they could just start again in another 2 hours, 4 hours, maybe a day. Chances are, next time you come back through there, you'll be fighting centaurs again.

Unlight · June 2011

Agree on point 1.

Disagree on points 2 - 5.

The premise of point 6 is fundamentally flawed so I neither agree nor disagree.

Hekket · June 2011

Originally posted by maskedweasel
Yes I am looking forward to GW2, but there are plenty of decisions Arenanet has made that I am not impressed with or absolutely dislike. Here is my short list. Again, these are MY reasons, others may like these design decisions below, but I however, do not.

1) No Mounts:

Sure, we have fast travel instead, but thats more of a roundabout, fat fingered way to get to where you'd like to go. It has the possibility of being faster in many cases, but you only get to teleport to certain parts, and trudge through everything else you pass by at a nominal speed. On a side note, no mounts in a fantasy game is a step backwards in my opinion. They could have kept with their "innovative" attempts and reinvented some mounted combat, but instead they gave us number 2.

2) Underwater Combat:

Come on now, I'm sorry but this is just cheesy. No movement penalty, magical or technological breathing apparel to explain infinite time underwater. I love underwater exploration, but I love it because in many games theres a large sense of danger because you are out of your element. -- You only have a small window of time to find what you're looking for or you run out of breath. You move slower and have to be more deliberate with where you go. Sometimes certain abilities don't work properly if at all under water, and the enemies you face are made for under water combat so they have an advantage. All these things that have been taken away made underwater adventures exciting and fun. Now its just the ground game with an XY and Z axis and a new bar for your spear gun. (or similar aquatic weapon).

3) WvWvW Roundrobin Matches and Lack of Open World PvP:

No, the mists aren't THE open world. They are an instanced piece of A open world that has absolutely nothing to do with the world you spend your time PvEing in. Whats worse? This world will change weekly, as will your opponents. Not just that but you'll be stacking up against these other "worlds" and if you continuously lose, don't fret, just transfer to that world for free at a later time. Open World PvP in itself gives that feeling of never knowing what will happen next. You could be gathering materials and get jumped by 6 guys in an area just a few hundred feet away from your faction city. In an instanced W v W v W, you know that by going in there, you'll be ganked, and you'll know when it will happen, because you'll be looking to do it yourself when you enter an area with W v W v W objectives.

Further more, W v W v W pits all worlds against eachother, and the idea behind a 3 faction system is to ensure that 2 factions can balance out 1 large faction. In a series of weekly battles where only 1 WORLD can win, 2 worlds teaming up to stop a third, more populated world could happen, but they wouldn't reap any benefits because they both also want the top spot. Not to mention these are just small week long battles, so there is no telling when you get matched up with other worlds if the other smaller world is even willing to cooperate. This issue is brought on by number 4.

4) No opposing Factions, Everyone in your world is a friend:

I get it, lets make everyone on a server friends! That way they'll work better together in W v W right? I don't think so. With opposing factions on the same server, you get to know your enemies, you get to know your friends, and you get to understand how other players work together and choose who you want to be associated with and who you don't. When you're grouped as an entire world, if 5 people form a group and spawn camp or abuse an exploit, the entire world will get a reputation for it. In factional same - server battles, you can simply choose not to play with those acting that way on your factions side. You also can get to know the other players on your server and create rivalries that you can play out day after day and not have to wait until the next week, or the week after that, or the week after that.

5) You get and A for Effort! :

Everyone gets rewards. EVERYONE. Did you just come in and kill that centaur before the event finished? Heres a trophy! Did you only gather 3 bird feathers out of the 100 everyone else gathered? Great job sport! Hey, looks like you spent most of your time in this event rubbing your keyboard on your dog, take this loot! In the same sense that if everyone is a hero, no one is, if everyone is getting rewards, its not much of a reward. Call it elitism if you want, but where I come from, you get rewarded for a job well done, not for just being there at the tail end of something, or deciding to whack a mole on your way to the auction house.

6) Non Dynamic, Dynamic Events:

As was stated by the dev team, you have these Dynamic Events that are supposed to revolutionize the way players interact with the world, but what we've learned about them is that these events are essentially cyclical, they run in a linear path, and they often times have the same old MMO objectives we've seen as Anet was worried about making DEs too complex so that everyone can finish them and 1 asshole can't ruin it by aggroing a boss 2 seconds into the event.

Basically, these events start somewhat dynamically based on a set of objectives, or a timed cycle (every 2 hours, day/night, ETC) and events are sectioned into areas. For example, a bandit camp could form (step 1) raid the town (step 2) then from that point, they build fortifications (step 3) then raid 2 more towns (step 4). The players objectives are to push them from 4 to 1, or from 2 to 1, or just stop them at 1. But tomorrow, it will start again. The same areas, the same objectives, just over a much broader scale than a Public Quest. While the presentation seems great right now, my fear is that it will get played out very quickly when you run through the PvE content through the same areas with different characters. It will end up feeling exactly like every other MMO, with the only major changes being whatever personalized content you choose for yourself.

Well there you have it, thats my short list of dislikes. There is a longer list, but I wouldn't want to get nitpicky with things like the seizure enducing animations, or the introduction of forced abilities on your bar.

I am still excited for this game despite my dislikes, and I have similar dislikes over all games I look forward to. Just because you are looking forward to something doesn't mean you have to like everything about it.

1) I can live without them. It's not a must have for all fantasy MMOs.

2) You are wrong. Your character has an item in their miscellanous equipment slot called a Breath Aparatus that grants your character unlimited underwater breathing. There's a recent video by gamespot that explains the item in detail. I'm not really sure why underwater exploration isn't something anyone couldn't like TBH.

3) Meh. I'm fine with large scale instanced PvP. I'd much rather that than open world. To each their own.

4) Why not? In games like WoW you can't talk to or befirend half the server population. How's that fun?

5) Mmmm i'm neutural on this one. I believe hard work should be the most rewarding. If someone puts in little effort they should receive little reward IMO.

6) That depends if a player that was roaming around decided to kill some of the raiding monsters before they could gather and storm the fort, thus resulting in no cities being raided. Sounds dynamic to me.

maskedweasel · June 2011

Originally posted by nomss

Originally posted by maskedweasel
1) No Mounts:

2) Underwater Combat:

3) WvWvW Roundrobin Matches and Lack of Open World PvP:

4) No opposing Factions, Everyone in your world is a friend:

5) You get and A for Effort! :

6) Non Dynamic, Dynamic Events:

1. You won't need them.

2. They will probably come up with a reason. But if I have to worry about breathing under water, I won't even dip in. So that's like I'm missing about 30%+? of the game. Big chunck probably. Very big loss for ANet and for me. I'm sure other people feel this way.

3. "You could be gathering materials and get jumped by 6 guys in an area just a few hundred feet away from your faction city. In an instanced W v W v W, you know that by going in there, you'll be ganked, and you'll know when it will happen, because you'll be looking to do it yourself when you enter an area with W v W v W objectives."

Kind of agree but in the mist you could be PVEing too, so there IS some element of suprise.

4. You've got it totally wrong. Having factions splits the server. If you had acess to 10k people, now you have access to only 5k. Huge impact on grouping, and you basically destroy the econmy.

5. I guess I see your point. But I'm sure someone who killed 5xxx and someone who killed 1xxx, their reward will be somewhat different, 100% sure on this one.

6. DE will have many chains. It won't be like A -> B -> C -> A. There will be many events that one event will affect. And eventually they will cycle back. I'm sure you can understand that, because they have a team of 200~ not 10k. So each event can not be all unique.

I just have to say, that, its not that these design decisions AREN'T RIGHT for what ANETcreated, because they created the game with these designs in mind, but these are things that I dislike about their design.

For example, they created a wealth of underwater content, I would have not liked very much underwater content at all. Between the two, I'd rather see mounted combat, or more so underwater exploration with a less combat oriented feel. More like a puzzle.. like "how do I get over there with that monster guarding the entrance and I only have 2 minutes of breath?" kind of stuff. I think if they were going to do underwater combat, I would have liked to see a little bit more in the way of interesting gameplay mechanics rather than just adding an extra axis and a new weapon.

I like the idea of changing weapons and weapon skills, I just don't like that they've completely removed what makes underwater combat (or just being underwater) special. Again, this is just my opinion.

mazut · June 2011

Originally posted by maskedweasel
Yes I am looking forward to GW2, but there are plenty of decisions Arenanet has made that I am not impressed with or absolutely dislike. Here is my short list. Again, these are MY reasons, others may like these design decisions below, but I however, do not.

1) No Mounts:

Sure, we have fast travel instead, but thats more of a roundabout, fat fingered way to get to where you'd like to go. It has the possibility of being faster in many cases, but you only get to teleport to certain parts, and trudge through everything else you pass by at a nominal speed. On a side note, no mounts in a fantasy game is a step backwards in my opinion. They could have kept with their "innovative" attempts and reinvented some mounted combat, but instead they gave us number 2.

2) Underwater Combat:

Come on now, I'm sorry but this is just cheesy. No movement penalty, magical or technological breathing apparel to explain infinite time underwater. I love underwater exploration, but I love it because in many games theres a large sense of danger because you are out of your element. -- You only have a small window of time to find what you're looking for or you run out of breath. You move slower and have to be more deliberate with where you go. Sometimes certain abilities don't work properly if at all under water, and the enemies you face are made for under water combat so they have an advantage. All these things that have been taken away made underwater adventures exciting and fun. Now its just the ground game with an XY and Z axis and a new bar for your spear gun. (or similar aquatic weapon).

3) WvWvW Roundrobin Matches and Lack of Open World PvP:

No, the mists aren't THE open world. They are an instanced piece of A open world that has absolutely nothing to do with the world you spend your time PvEing in. Whats worse? This world will change weekly, as will your opponents. Not just that but you'll be stacking up against these other "worlds" and if you continuously lose, don't fret, just transfer to that world for free at a later time. Open World PvP in itself gives that feeling of never knowing what will happen next. You could be gathering materials and get jumped by 6 guys in an area just a few hundred feet away from your faction city. In an instanced W v W v W, you know that by going in there, you'll be ganked, and you'll know when it will happen, because you'll be looking to do it yourself when you enter an area with W v W v W objectives.

Further more, W v W v W pits all worlds against eachother, and the idea behind a 3 faction system is to ensure that 2 factions can balance out 1 large faction. In a series of weekly battles where only 1 WORLD can win, 2 worlds teaming up to stop a third, more populated world could happen, but they wouldn't reap any benefits because they both also want the top spot. Not to mention these are just small week long battles, so there is no telling when you get matched up with other worlds if the other smaller world is even willing to cooperate. This issue is brought on by number 4.

4) No opposing Factions, Everyone in your world is a friend:

I get it, lets make everyone on a server friends! That way they'll work better together in W v W right? I don't think so. With opposing factions on the same server, you get to know your enemies, you get to know your friends, and you get to understand how other players work together and choose who you want to be associated with and who you don't. When you're grouped as an entire world, if 5 people form a group and spawn camp or abuse an exploit, the entire world will get a reputation for it. In factional same - server battles, you can simply choose not to play with those acting that way on your factions side. You also can get to know the other players on your server and create rivalries that you can play out day after day and not have to wait until the next week, or the week after that, or the week after that.

5) You get and A for Effort! :

Everyone gets rewards. EVERYONE. Did you just come in and kill that centaur before the event finished? Heres a trophy! Did you only gather 3 bird feathers out of the 100 everyone else gathered? Great job sport! Hey, looks like you spent most of your time in this event rubbing your keyboard on your dog, take this loot! In the same sense that if everyone is a hero, no one is, if everyone is getting rewards, its not much of a reward. Call it elitism if you want, but where I come from, you get rewarded for a job well done, not for just being there at the tail end of something, or deciding to whack a mole on your way to the auction house.

6) Non Dynamic, Dynamic Events:

As was stated by the dev team, you have these Dynamic Events that are supposed to revolutionize the way players interact with the world, but what we've learned about them is that these events are essentially cyclical, they run in a linear path, and they often times have the same old MMO objectives we've seen as Anet was worried about making DEs too complex so that everyone can finish them and 1 asshole can't ruin it by aggroing a boss 2 seconds into the event.

Basically, these events start somewhat dynamically based on a set of objectives, or a timed cycle (every 2 hours, day/night, ETC) and events are sectioned into areas. For example, a bandit camp could form (step 1) raid the town (step 2) then from that point, they build fortifications (step 3) then raid 2 more towns (step 4). The players objectives are to push them from 4 to 1, or from 2 to 1, or just stop them at 1. But tomorrow, it will start again. The same areas, the same objectives, just over a much broader scale than a Public Quest. While the presentation seems great right now, my fear is that it will get played out very quickly when you run through the PvE content through the same areas with different characters. It will end up feeling exactly like every other MMO, with the only major changes being whatever personalized content you choose for yourself.

Well there you have it, thats my short list of dislikes. There is a longer list, but I wouldn't want to get nitpicky with things like the seizure enducing animations, or the introduction of forced abilities on your bar.

I am still excited for this game despite my dislikes, and I have similar dislikes over all games I look forward to. Just because you are looking forward to something doesn't mean you have to like everything about it.

1: We dont want useless mounts and we wont get any That porting system is what we are use to and what we want.

Right folks!!!

2: Dont play it, no one force you. But you will miss a lot of fun. Yoaur loss

3: You dont like PvP lakes? Well there are games "with no names" with ffa open pvp, but Dynamic events with ganking... wont work. Pick different game.

4: You will have oponent factions even 2 ot them Or you can play organised GvG/Team arena(probably) or other alliance battles(if they implement such in teh future)

5: No grinding, or at least less. Thanks ANet

6: This will be the most dynamic game out there. What you want is something that will be possible in the future, maybe after 50 years? Who knows.

Kharnath · June 2011

Originally posted by maskedweasel
A lot of personal opinions...

I'm not sure I understand the purpose of this thread. Are we supposed to comment on the short list of things you dislike? Or would you rather have us post our own lists with pros and cons?

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