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MMORPG.COM News: Editorial: Innovation in the Industry
Dana
Member Posts: 2,415
James Pittiglio has written a fine editorial to debut as a new Staff Writer on our website. The article is entitled "Innovation in the Industry" and chronicles what he sees as the steps forward and what we can do to change them.
;) For the majority of us MMORPG players, we use our games as an escape from the real world. Of course, there are those who play these games to make a profit (illegally) or just to ruin others fun, but that is beside the point. When playing these games, you become so involved, you no longer worry about the bills that need to be paid, the grade on your last Statistics test (or the one youre about to take tomorrow), or what you will be doing the coming weekend. No, instead youre immersed in a fantasy world, looking to find the next greatest sword, or advancing in skill to vanquish some amazing, new foe. It has been like this since people have started playing these games.
Many people consider MUDs to be the first true MMORPGs, while others still consider the first to be one of any number of games including Meridian 59 by Near Death Studios or The Realm by Sierra / Codemasters. Since then, weve seen numerous technological advancements in various areas, most notably in graphics. We have come a long way from text-based adventures and MUDs, to 2D games such as The Realm and Ultima Online, and finally the first 3D games like EverQuest. Looking at games such as SOEs latest game, EverQuest II, really puts these things in perspective. But what else has really changed? |
You can read the full editorial here.
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Comments
Yes, Mourning will definitely be a pleasant change. I wonder why there isn't a forum for them here? </sarcasm>
Sorry - doublepost
There is nothing original in WoW either. I don't know why you left it out, but it should be right behind EQII in your list.
MEO looks to be doing some original things. The most original MMO on the horizon (no pun intended) WAS Dragon Empires, unfortunately, it was canned.
I'd also like to point out EVE Online as a MMORPG scoring VERY high in the innovation department. What with:
- Time based skill training (no more xp !!)
- Free form characters (no more classes !!)
- Advanced combat system
- Massively intricate economic system
For more innovating than CoH (which I also LOVE to play btw)
zzzzz
I would love to see if the MMORPG developers can immerse a card game like Magic the Gathering and put it into a MMORPG format.
Guild Wars might be the beginning of this type of system in that you have have a limited set of skills to choose your actions in a given mission/zone.
The investors of such a game could count on the history of MtG card revenue sales to make this a worthy venture.
I know there is a MtG Online game out there, but its like a one on one chess match. No storyline, no environment, etc.
I am sure its difficult, given the possibilities and combinations and timed events, but some of these things can be managed via spell casting times, recharging skill times, mana, etc.
I also think if someone wants to risk his own life, he can act directly instead of using a card type action. Maybe someone wants to "block" an incoming attack from a 3/3 Ogre. The animated ogre is rushing towards you and u attack it instead of calling on your 3/5 Spider. You hit, you kill the beast and save a card, you miss and the Ogre smashes you without resistance.
Grouping and multiple enemies would be the problem, especially with lag issues, but perhaps there are some innovative ways to overcome this.
Idea#2 - Sorry to be seedy and naughty, but what if there was an "R" rated mmorpg? How many of us are bombarded with cybersex requests and witness to some crude distortions in vulgar images in our games? Lets send em all on their own Seedy MMORPG.. A MMORPG that caters to those with "other tastes"... Blood, gore, real nudes and more diabolic visuals. Heck we are halfway there anyway. Who is bold enough to go ALL the way?
Idea#3 - A game which lets you try various mmorpgs, transfer characters to similar games with equivalent gear, etc..A mirror with several doors. Want to venture into Norrath? Step inside and for 30 days you can go fantasy. Step backintot he Mirror place, recruit some buddies and step into Paragon City as a hero (or villian), the game creates a similar looking character for you and generates equivalent stats/abilities according to your level. Zip into WW II Online as an Captain if you are lvl 50. The game includes tutorials and gives a basic backround for you to ge your feet wet. You can choose if you want to stay or move on..
Some quick thoughts, I think the original editorial was a little off in its opinions(but I suppose it was an editorial). Personally I find EQ2 to be fun, but far more similar to FFXI to be counted on original in its combat skills, and the crafting is a fantastic Idea for a system, but it is far to random and the time sink is HUGE!). And to be more fair, At Release!, City of Heroes had more content than EQ2 did(I played Beta and release for both, btw).
Overall though, the editorial did make a good point about MMOs and thier lacks. I find myself jumping around to different games for the "feel" of the environment more than any one special item.(though CoH combat system is by far the most intense and immersive system available being almost completely real-time based, though DDO may trump it with thier 100% real time based combat later this year).
In any case, with the new graphic technologies coming this year, PCI-e has its start, and PPU cards coming... well, that can certainly vastly improve what is possible with the environment in these games. That in my opinion is one of the major flaws in todays MMOs. The environment is too static and not maleable enough. You can't cause a cave in on an orc horde in EQ2, or pull a lamp post free to bash some thugs in CoH... but with the speed of PCI-e and the built in environmental dynamic of PPUs, things have the ability to start changing rapidly... we'll have to see.
Fansede, I like the idea of a more live action style MtG, but it smacks a little too close to what might be a Pokemon type battle setting.. not sure if I could see that.
I love your second idea. Of course it would have to be Credit Card only for age verification purposes, but perhaps a White Wolf Games (Vampire, Werewolf, Darkness) setting could make this setting very plausible, and give you a good fan-base to start selling to. I would certainly try it.
The third Idea is exceptionally tough. I doubt you could get away with moving a character to the actual games listed, but for an extremely ambitious developer out there, something akin to Roger Zelazney's Amber type world would certainly make a setting like this possible. Depending on your class/race, portal jumping or Shadow walking between settings(Fantasy, Current world, Space age.. you name it, could be amongst the worlds) would be pretty great too. I would definitely pay for that one as a huge fan of the author/books.
Well, those are my thoughts and the like.. hopefully not to meandering...
Cheers!
No mention of WWIIOnline, soon to be re-realeased as Battleground Europe? Strange. this MMOG is totally unique to all the others mentioned.
Shame really. I played EQ, CoH and WWIIOL, and WWIIOL is definately the best.
Greetings all,
Thank you all for commenting. This was my first editorial for the site, and I truly appreciate all of your criticism. I'd like to respond to some of the points already posted, but first let me start by saying that all of the games mentioned are games I played for an extended period of time. I have beta-tested many, and played many, many more not mentioned, but these I had the best knowledge of and I did not want to comment on games that I could not give my own opinion of. Additionally, there was a limit to the amount I could write, which is also an explanation regarding games that were left out.
To RyanR100, I have yet to play WoW. I have read mix-reviews about it, and without first-hand knowledge, could not have given an accurate, non-biased opinion. I currently play EQ2, so please do not think I was bashing/favoring one game. I was also looking forward to Dragon Empires, and was disappointed when it was cancelled.
Goldeneye, I apologize for leaving out EVE, but as mentioned, if I did not have first-hand, intimate knowledge of a game, I did not want to post information based on others reviews. I will look into it however.
UndeadInsane, thank you for your support. It is, of course, always good to see someone agree
Please post back with your thoughts as to what you would like to see in a game; any ideas you may have are great, as who knows, maybe some developers may swing by and see what we are most interested in. That was the whole idea behind the editorial.
I'd like to thank fansede for posting his ideas. They were all great. I'm not quite sure how they could implement a storyline in a card-based MMORPG, and that may be due to the fact I never got into the TCG craze. It is definitely something to look into though. In regards to the 'R-rated' MMORPG, I doubt a developer is likely to follow through on this, as there is already enough controversy and debate with violence and nudity in video games, and this would just add more fuel to the proverbial fire. Additionally, I can see this easily leading to problems at home, which is just another reason I don't see this idea coming about, but it is still very possible.
fansede's last idea is something truly unique, although I'm not quite sure how a system could be developed. For instance, the way abilities and statistics work in one game may be completely different from another, so you could end up with a superb character in EQ2 and a horribly 'gimped' character in CoH. Additionally, if one was promoted to Captain or another high rank in a game like WWIIOnline without ever playing the game, they would have no knowledge of the systems/abilities, which would most likely lead their team to disaster, disheartening other players. The only similar thing I can thing of is the newly created MMOCenter, which will be producing multiple games that players can play for one monthly subscription.
blazeredsxt, thank you as well for sharing your thoughts. Again, I have yet to play WoW, and currently play EQ2 and love it. I have never played FFXI, so did not have any first-hand knowledge of the combat system used. I do agree with you that CoH did have more content than EQ2 at release, as you stated, but EQ2 is constantly being updated, and the amount of content that has been added since release is astonishing. I do agree with you that environments are too static, and that there is not enough interaction with the game world. If you take a look at the 2 adventure packs for EQ2, however, Bloodline Chronicles implemented destructible environments (read: walls), and the Splitpaw Saga (currently in pre-release) allows players to move objects, such as boxes and boards, to create their own paths and allow developers to create new and interesting game-play based puzzles.
Finally, to PillBox, I played WWIIOnline as well, in the very first month it was released. At the time, the game was plagued with problems. I agree it was innovative, but games from the Battlefield series seem to have done a better job at creating a similar game that one can just pick up and play. I beta-tested PlanetSide, and the general FPS/MMORPG concept is the same (with gameplay and setting being different) and while it also had its problems, I believe action-oriented games such as these are definitely the way to go. Hopefully the re-release of WWIIOnline will do much better, as I love the era and games with that setting (although there have been a little too many lately).
Again, thank you all for the criticism. The idea behind it was to spark discussion regarding ideas and thoughts of what you, the players, want to see in future games/expansions. I loved fansedes ideas, and would like to see others thoughts and more ideas like them.
-James 'Condar' Pittiglio
I'm surprised that Anarchy Online wasn't mentioned. It was the first real futuristic MMORPG. The mission system led the way for the instanced zones/missions that people enjoy today in EQ:LDoN, EQ2, SWG, CoH, etc. It was one of the biggest MMO innovations in years.
Or Earth and Beyond or Jumpgate.. both space games which were the predecessors of EVE Online.
The Horizons crafting system played a small part in WoW's resource gathering system, more or less.
I think there is a significant difference in play amongst the fantasy MMORPGs. I have played EQ, Asheron's Call, Horizons, and EQ2 and my experience with these games were all different.
Have played: Everquest, Asheron's Call, Horizons, Everquest2, World of Warcraft, Lord of the Rings Online, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall
This is rich. MMORPG.COM takes Mourning off their game list, closes the forum for Mourning, allows a 70+ page thread excoriating Mourning to continue for months, and then comes out with an editorial that says:
"Additionally, the future looks bright, with games such as Mourning ...."
This site cracks me up. I swear I think 2 high school kids publish this out of their garage.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Very well written article but the premise isn't exactly correct. The basis of the article is that there is no innovation in the mmo genre. Yet it fails to discuss games like A Tale In The Desert, Puzzle Pirates, or the upcoming Shot Online. All three of them are radically different than most MMO's.
How exactly is letting our writers write what they think a bad thing?
The issues between this site and Mourning are well documented, but if one of our writers wishes to express their opinion a game - I see no reason we should censor that.
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Extremely opiniated, but often close to a point, yet usually beside it.
It is fun how he just avoid to talk about ''END GAME'' exactly at: Everquest. He talk about the lack of ''END GAME'' in the previous titles, but at EQ...nothing on end game.
EQ ''END GAME'' was an honest try, but such a formulae dont work. I dont say raiding is not welcome in a MMORPG, it is not it place to be the ''END GAME''. Raiding need to be developped aside from grouping, having little or no effect on grouping or from grouping. Think of it, what is better for a ''raiding oriented guild'', to recruit from level X folks who hardly ever raid, or to recruit in a side system peoples who have play and achieve some basics of say system? If someone log in for the first time in a game, and read the different gameplays and areas to work on, and figure he want to raid, why do you want him to do some grouping before? That person need a raiding tutorial, I dont care if they are only 3 persons and 3 NPCs in the first area, it is builded and developped with a raiding focus and soon they will be 12 and so on. Many raiders never raid because the leveling grouping system turn them off and they quit the game, prolly most of the best raiders left the game this way, never raiding. An awesome raider is unlikely to put throught 60+ levels of solo or grouping, exactly like awesome groupers are unlikely to raid in order to earn gear...and most importantly, those that accept to do this are often unhappy and harsh...in a game...If you ask the current guilds roaster, well, off course most peoples will say they like BOTH, but the fact is, the average grouper dont like to raid, and I would be ready to bet that the real raid lovers in avarage dont like grouping, they cry everytime new levels are added afterall, while a grouper rejoice with new levels!
And like many others say, most games bring a LOT of innovations, if you are just carefull enought to watch for it...EQ ''END GAME'', althought misguided in this form, bring a new gameplay which have it own needs and desire, and no matter what you say, most raiders want to raid, not to earn X levels before raiding, just 1 more proof raiding need to be developped aside(like PvP).
CoH is definitely the shining game in this list. You can try to hide it between EQ and EQ2, but it just dont work. If you put a heavy warhorse between 2 splendid racing horses, it remain a heavy warhorse and most peoples will acknowledge it real value. CoH is not perfect, but they are walking away from their Hamidon mistake(if I read well) and eventually, they may find a nice ''Grouping END GAME'' which will keep us playing and motivated.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Lol. You have taken away the ability for anyone to rate the game on your site (as you allow your members to do for all the other mmorpgs), and you have the hubris to speak of censorship? If you are really supportive of people being able to speak their minds about a game, then put Mourning back on the list and let people give it a numeric rating and add their comments as you do for other mmorpgs.
Likewise, you close down the forum where people can talk constructively about the game, keep up a thread bashing the game beyond all belief, and then talk about how you support an open exchange of opinions!
But hey, it's your site. Do with it as you will. Just don't be offended when I laugh at your hypocrisy.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
The staff should not answer you. I know Dana is itching to answer you, but answering you is giving you to much importance.
Been open and letting peoples express their free point of view is always bringing controversy. Mourning was closed at an explicit request of the Mourning staff.
The staff of this site have better things to do then opening/closing/writing/advertising for the most vocals and less mature PR teams any company have.
Lineage and many others MMORPGs dont have a forum, yet peoples keep talking positively and negatively about the games.
If the Mourning staff is able to get such negatives answers from the peoples in general, it hardly have anything to do with the staff here that where SUPPORTING Mourning and drooling over it. Mourning got a LOT of attention from the staff, heck, even D&Donline got LESS attention, despite the freaking fact THAT IT IS D&D! *get all excited*
Yet, they where able to get the staff angry and they dont do anything wrong in return, they turn their back, which is their right. And I think the staff at Mourning can manage to get a favorable answer from the staff here, in time, if they stop acting like morons for 10 seconds in a row!
Let's me behave 1 moment like Tiamat: WTF, someone is trash talking D&Donline by saying the no drow is lame and will not play the game, damn it, I REQUEST that you delete that thread now! You clearly see how someone can aggravate the situation? If the Mourning staff cant behave in any form of civility, the staff wont support them. I am not even sure SoE, Blizzard, Turbine or any respectable company even ASK for something from the staff here, they certainly never request anything in that way!
Aint your admission time coincidential with the massive log in arrival from the Mourning staff on this board?
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Personally, I don't want a lot of innovation...and I don't see that much innovation really in other genres either. For example, fps and third person shooters seem to be improving graphics and AI, but the core game is the same. Strategic games also seem the same to me....manage resources, build an empire, wage a war, etc.
Really, instead of being innovative, maybe just improving on some ideas would be nice. I think this is why WOW is so successful...I read they have 2 million subscribers world wide now. They really took many things already out there in the mmog genre and improved upon it. And people liked it.
I would like to see these games in other settings. I would like to hear more voice work in these games, as in EQ2. I like realistic graphics, but this is a personal preference.
I thought Star Wars Galaxies had some great ideas....but lacked content and had laggy servers. Too bad. And now they have changed from skill based combat which was a lot of fun...
Perhaps one innovative feature I can think of though would be putting your face onto an avatar.
I totally agree with this mmorpgs could be so much more, but unfortunately money makes games and producers arent going to put money (generally) into something that isnt tried and tested.
The best example of this is the film industry for the most part 70-80% of films follow 7 or 8 basic story lines more often than not its 1... a film about 1 man who knows everything and can beat everyone, who finds a love interest and overcomes some great evil...zzzzzzz sometimes they have the odd new cool bit here and there or 1 liner which is originally funny, but on the whole its the same rehashed proved to sell crap.
Tho hopefully as more gamers enmass become aware of what is innovative/deep/immersive/fun and what is possible, they will start demanding better games.The internet will generally allow for less biased reviews which will hopefully point gamers to well made games and not well marketed ones.
Back in 2001, Markup over at Gaming Voice did an article very similar to this one. It was called, "Dark Age of Online RPGs" and is located at http://www.gamingvoice.com/gvmain/features/mm20011126.asp
.
Four years have passed. It is amazing how little has changed.
Hello again all,
I'd like to thank everyone again who has posted in support of my editorial. I would also like to thank Dana for giving me the opportunity to write for the site and post my opinions.
One thing I would like to reiterate is that I could not include every game, and those that I did write about were based on my own personal experience; not someone elses reviews. If I had not played a game, it was not included. I mentioned a few games at the bottom, such as Pirates of the Burning Sea, as they are games I think that will bring something new to the genre. Again, I could not mention every game out there, as I was limited to the amount I could write, and because I may not have known enough about the game to accurately comment on it. For instance, Puzzle Pirates looks to be a fresh, new MMORPG, but at the time the article was initially written, I had not even heard of the game. The point here is that I did not intentionally leave out any games because I felt they were not innovative. The games I reviewed were, what I felt, the biggest and most popular, so the majority of people who read the website could relate.
Finally to Torgin, thank you for pointing out this website and editorial. It's good to see that others share my opinion, and you are right, little has changed in 4 years in regards to the industry, but please do not accuse someone of plagiarism if that was your intent. I had never seen the article until you posted it, so again, thank you for sharing that with us!
I'd like to conclude by again stating that the point of this editorial was not to favor/bash any particular games. It was an attempt to spark a discussion over what features you would like to see in future games. With that, I'd like to especially thank those of you who have attempted to discuss and post these ideas so far.
-James 'Condar' Pittiglio
To my surprise I found out that there are about 1,600 mmorpg's out there, sounds a lot but I think that takes into account a loose definition of the word.
Have games, both online and off lacked innovation?
I don't think you can call Far Cry's CryTek engine or Valve's Source engine lacking in any innovation. What then is the cause of this seemingly lack of innovation within mmorpg's? Is it a hardware issue, server's tend to be around longer than the average desktop PC since they cost considerably more both in terms of initial capital and ongoing costs.
How about the so-called digital divide, there are people out there believe it or not who still use 56k modems and so mmorpg designers have to take this into account. Although it's an unspoken specification of an online game, few hardcore mmorpgers use anything but Broadband technology.
Could it be the money men, venture capitalists who may have been part of a previous project and understand the traps involved in ploughing money into a mmorpg more know than even 5 years ago.
Maybe it's us the gamers, the subscribers, who lap up whatever happens to be the latest mmorpg right here right now knowing full well that it will take at least 2 months of unstable servers and bug report after bug report just to see a playable game.
Perhaps mmorpg's just aren't popular enough to warrant many years of development and millions of dollars for an uncertain market, World of Warcraft is clearly an exception there I think it will be some time before another mmorpg sells that quickly.
One reason I play mmorpgs is because they are great fun and very engaging and I also enjoy the social political side of them too. Also there is so much junk on TV now, that they are a much better form of entertainment. When you can play a mmorpg through your TV is when you can truly say that they have entered the conscience of the world market.
"Finally to Torgin, thank you for pointing out this website and editorial. It's good to see that others share my opinion, and you are right, little has changed in 4 years in regards to the industry, but please do not accuse someone of plagiarism if that was your intent."
Condar, Condar, Condar. You were doing so well in your post, too.
Re-read the post I made for a moment. Do I EVER mention anything about plagiarism? No. I am curious as to why you would think I was accusing you of such a thing, though, because I don't go near the subject at all. It makes me think you MAY have lifted your piece from someone else, though. I know you didn't lift the article from Markup, however, because the one I listed was MUCH BETTER than yours - and it even mentioned WoW. Go figure.
Here's the reality, Condar: the idea behind your editorial has been discussed to death already. Newsgroups, message boards, editorials - it has been discussed in these areas over and over again. You have said what many, many people have said before you - but you haven't improved on the discussion one bit. The moment someone else points out that it HAS been said before, however, you start ranting about how you didn't plagiarize anything. I would have felt better if you HAD SAID you'd read it before, because at least then it would have shown you'd done some sort of research on the subject.
And, speaking of research, where do you get off writing about the state of the industry when you haven't even played one of the biggest MMORPGs on the market - World of Warcraft? Love it or hate it, the fact that it is one of the leading MMORPGs out there means that it is having an affect on the industry. This is like someone trying to teach literature but never having read the classics - you don't have to have read every book ever written to teach Lit 101, but you do have to have read the books listed on the syllabus to be taken seriously.
Hopefully, your next submission will be better - one more piece like this, and I'll be altering my "New Story Alerts" so that I'm not bothered with them.
The article seems to be asking "Well sure, but what have you done for me lately".
Should be no surprise you see little innovation if you limit yourself to clones of the wildly successful Everquest. Though I do think we could use more MMOs trying to emulate UO's approach (worlds/sandboxes as opposed to quest or storyline driven games). They seem to be inherently more risky unfortunately.