1) I will stay with EVE till I don't want to play anymore. Of course, I expect everyone else to do the same. If you are not having fun then you shouldn't play.
2) I believe that CCP will do whatever they believe is the best for their business model.
3) The CSM does not have power. They are simply representatives of the players...also, you could say they are representatives of a particular type of player. If you look at the percentage of people that voted...and who voted...I like the CSM, I think it is awesome that CCP goes to such great lenghts to cater to them, and perhaps even listen to them.
4. EVE is not a game. For a lot of people EVE is there primary hobbie...for six to seven years a number of players having been playing EVE as some people watch or keep track of sports. They become invested. The game is a very important part of their life.
5. Customers have felt betrayed. The corporate email, the CCPs corporate mag, and the tone of the first blog post, basically say that CCP has a model in mind for their game that doesn't mesh with a number of EVE players. The CSM gets flown out, and CCP gets their position clarified. However, it is based on trust...and people see CCP's promise of not including "game breaking" as vague. Trust...people trusted CCP, they saw CCP as a different kind of company. However, with the NEX and Incarna...the look and feel of EVE has changed. People who have been playing this game of 6-7 years a major change like incarna and the nex could be traumatic, but they accepted it well enough...until the leaks came out.
7. Once you find out that your wife or husband has cheated on you, you may get back together or forgive them, but it is never quite the same.
Currently Play: ? Occasionally Play: Champions, Pirates of the Burning Sea, WOW, EVE ONLINE
7. Once you find out that your wife or husband has cheated on you, you may get back together or forgive them, but it is never quite the same.
Cheated?
Huh?
CCP actually never ever said they would NEVER have micro transactions. (If they did, please find me that quote.) They just said, as they do now about non vanity items, that they had no plans to do it.
That can't be counted as cheating.
Reading more into messages than what is there seems to be a major issue with some EvE players...
Tin-foil hat, nerd rage or being naive, call it what you want. I'm not really impressed when companies have little meetings with small groups of players anymore. Especially for something that could and should have been addressed with a simple post on their own forums.
And what should that post have been? A statement that they would NEVER have non vanity items?
Would never happen. Any company making such a bold statement is setting themselfs up to loose. They did they best and most honest thing they could: Said they had no plans for it.
When forced on the issue they showed said planning to the CSM under NDA to have them confirm, that indeed, there is no such plans.
1) I will stay with EVE till I don't want to play anymore. Of course, I expect everyone else to do the same. If you are not having fun then you shouldn't play.
2) I believe that CCP will do whatever they believe is the best for their business model.
3) The CSM does not have power. They are simply representatives of the players...also, you could say they are representatives of a particular type of player. If you look at the percentage of people that voted...and who voted...I like the CSM, I think it is awesome that CCP goes to such great lenghts to cater to them, and perhaps even listen to them.
4. EVE is not a game. For a lot of people EVE is there primary hobbie...for six to seven years a number of players having been playing EVE as some people watch or keep track of sports. They become invested. The game is a very important part of their life.
5. Customers have felt betrayed. The corporate email, the CCPs corporate mag, and the tone of the first blog post, basically say that CCP has a model in mind for their game that doesn't mesh with a number of EVE players. The CSM gets flown out, and CCP gets their position clarified. However, it is based on trust...and people see CCP's promise of not including "game breaking" as vague. Trust...people trusted CCP, they saw CCP as a different kind of company. However, with the NEX and Incarna...the look and feel of EVE has changed. People who have been playing this game of 6-7 years a major change like incarna and the nex could be traumatic, but they accepted it well enough...until the leaks came out.
7. Once you find out that your wife or husband has cheated on you, you may get back together or forgive them, but it is never quite the same.
Actually, to use that analogy, I would like to think it's more like a spouse that found their significant other talking with another person about sexual acts casually, but hadn't necessarily intended to do such acts with the person. Note that I said 'necessarily' - to communicate the uncertainty of the situation. They may have decided to actually do naughty things with the other person had they not been spotted, or they may have just left it at that.
Not going to analyze it past that, but I think it gives the appropriate impression.
This is not the cash shop you think it is... There is and never will be that type of cash shop... Move along, move along... ^^
Only time will tell if this is only a tactical retreat, or if they are sincere. My money is on tactical retreat. There is simply WAY too much money to be made in an eastern style cash shop (as no doubt demonstrated to them by their Chinese partners), for most companies to pass up. CCP was no doubt rather surprised by the extent of the reaction to this. Lets see what happens in the next year or so.
And yet those same 'Chinese partners' use said cash shops in a Free to Play system. PLEX and paid-for game-time in general are just too integral to EVE Online to make that viable, and thus any attempt at 'Pay-to-Win' would be an exercise in self-suicide. Nobody who wants everything handed to them in a 'Pay-to-Win' method is going to also, on top of that, pay for a subscription fee. If CCP did it with EVE, they'd be the only one, and shortly thereafter they'd be the last ones to do it, sitting on a corpse that once was the grandest of MMO experiments.
“…whatever we do, and whatever parts of the game it touches that this player arbitrage remain. That there is not a magical appearance or vanishing of items by CCP, that this is more player driven.”
These are words only spoken by those that understand EVE Online and its players- the grand sandbox experiment. The butterfly effect. Chaos theory. Emergent gameplay.
I am more than willing to take the CSM's word on the non-validity of the leaked documents (though I do agree that Hilmar still needs to make a public apology, for the same reasons TheMittani gave). I realize not everyone will, and I hope that the minutes for the emergency summit are released soon enough so that we have better evidence to this point.
I see the Failheap Challenge guys have found thier way to these comments as well.
Just an update from in-game: People have moved past this...
Where? To both statements. I'm curious to see your research.
Lets see. When people where really angry, CCP response resulted in 400+ pages of rage. Now, we are back to the normal 40+ pages of whining that any message generates form the CCP haters...
In game in the Incursion channel (400+ people) I am in we have been making jokes about those still raging for the last few days.
Also no rage in local, not even Jita.
So, nothing concrete, just a hunch.
That's rather in line with regular group behaviour following social upheavals, can't as such be used for any attempt at quantying feedback trends.
I was kinda hoping you had some community surveys or such, as I have seen several of those on the EVE forums and in some other communities as well. Not the CCP ones, but community driven research.
CCP normally doesn't do that, except with leading questions, and at the moment I find all this mess, well, messy. So looking deeper.
One of those types of antics is known as push polling. Dishonest doesn't even begin to describe those who use such tactics.
7. Once you find out that your wife or husband has cheated on you, you may get back together or forgive them, but it is never quite the same.
Cheated?
Huh?
CCP actually never ever said they would NEVER have micro transactions. (If they did, please find me that quote.) They just said, as they do now about non vanity items, that they had no plans to do it.
That can't be counted as cheating.
Reading more into messages than what is there seems to be a major issue with some EvE players...
Its obvious from some of the leaked messages, what the attitude of CCP's upper management is towards its players, these days. That wasn't the case 5-6 years ago. Or they were MUCH better at keeping it hidden. CCP *WAS* quite the exception among game companies back then. But its also obvious that success has changed their leaderships attitudes and perceptions. They would hardly be the first (nor sadly, the last...) company to go this route.
4. EVE is not a game. For a lot of people EVE is there primary hobbie...for six to seven years a number of players having been playing EVE as some people watch or keep track of sports. They become invested. The game is a very important part of their life.
No, EVE is definitely a game. If anyone finds themselves in this position, they've taken it too far and they seriously need to re-evaluate their priorities and consider walking away.
CCP will not promise to never sell items of power in the cash shop, it is not in their interest to do so and expect them to continue to dance around the issue endlessly.
If you cannot accept this, walk away now, and save yourself the frustration, because after all, it really is just a game.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I just don't grasp what you are complaining about. If the game does not entertain you anymore, then you should leave, but until they put non fluff items in the store, you are basically tilting at windmills if you base leaving the game on this incident.
I consider the chance CCP will add game affecting items to the store to be next to nil after all this silly brohuha.
This is not the cash shop you think it is... There is and never will be that type of cash shop... Move along, move along... ^^
Only time will tell if this is only a tactical retreat, or if they are sincere. My money is on tactical retreat. There is simply WAY too much money to be made in an eastern style cash shop (as no doubt demonstrated to them by their Chinese partners), for most companies to pass up. CCP was no doubt rather surprised by the extent of the reaction to this. Lets see what happens in the next year or so.
And yet those same 'Chinese partners' use said cash shops in a Free to Play system. PLEX and paid-for game-time in general are just too integral to EVE Online to make that viable, and thus any attempt at 'Pay-to-Win' would be an exercise in self-suicide. Nobody who wants everything handed to them in a 'Pay-to-Win' method is going to also, on top of that, pay for a subscription fee. If CCP did it with EVE, they'd be the only one, and shortly thereafter they'd be the last ones to do it, sitting on a corpse that once was the grandest of MMO experiments.
“…whatever we do, and whatever parts of the game it touches that this player arbitrage remain. That there is not a magical appearance or vanishing of items by CCP, that this is more player driven.”
These are words only spoken by those that understand EVE Online and its players- the grand sandbox experiment. The butterfly effect. Chaos theory. Emergent gameplay.
I am more than willing to take the CSM's word on the non-validity of the leaked documents (though I do agree that Hilmar still needs to make a public apology, for the same reasons TheMittani gave). I realize not everyone will, and I hope that the minutes for the emergency summit are released soon enough so that we have better evidence to this point.
Well, that would be true if this was all about EVE in the western markets, but its not. You do realize that there are actually two EVE's? China has its own shard. If EVE China turns out to be massively successful, do you really think that given some of CCP's leaderships attitudes, that they would mind losing half or more of their western players? The entire enterprise would still be much more profitable over all.
Do you remember the presentation made last year at the GDC, about merging the two shards? I'm still waiting to see how that turns out, or if it does. Given the Chinese governments obsession with control, and manipulation of perception (internal/external), its going to be difficult to say the least.
As for the CSM, while their heart is in the right place, I've always considered the entire exercise to be more a cynical PR move on the part of CCP, than any real change of attitude. Think about their value from a perception management perspective, and it makes much more sense.
Where? To both statements. I'm curious to see your research.
That's rather in line with regular group behaviour following social upheavals, can't as such be used for any attempt at quantying feedback trends.
I'm curious to see your research.
I'm sure there is a local university with a basic credit course in sociology :P Your post indicated an overview or a trend among users, hence my question. The latter is quite commonplace, and will not be hard to validate. I'll give you a hint though, it's a concept which we in this industry are familiar with as an aspect of game theory.
Tin-foil hat, nerd rage or being naive, call it what you want. I'm not really impressed when companies have little meetings with small groups of players anymore. Especially for something that could and should have been addressed with a simple post on their own forums.
And what should that post have been? A statement that they would NEVER have non vanity items?
Would never happen. Any company making such a bold statement is setting themselfs up to loose. They did they best and most honest thing they could: Said they had no plans for it.
When forced on the issue they showed said planning to the CSM under NDA to have them confirm, that indeed, there is no such plans.
End of none existing issue.
Remember, the only reason that CCP had to have this emergency meeting with the players was because their internal documents got out that showed they were clearly discussing selling game effecting items. It isn't like this is the first time they have been caught trying to monetize gameplay (plexs for faster training).
Everything that happens after that is more about damage control than it is about being honest. The whole situation could have been handled with a simple post to the players.
Instead what CCP gave people was some PR stunt with heavily scripted and restricted information. The conclusion they want people to have is that they just had a miscommunication about the cash store and to ignore what they do behind closed doors when they think no one is watching. Instead people should trust that they will live up to their vague non commitments on the subject and will not introduce game affecting items.
Sort of reminds me of the used car commercials where they customer keeps asking for the carfax and the dealer is desperate to avoid giving out the details.
This is not the cash shop you think it is... There is and never will be that type of cash shop... Move along, move along... ^^
Only time will tell if this is only a tactical retreat, or if they are sincere. My money is on tactical retreat. There is simply WAY too much money to be made in an eastern style cash shop (as no doubt demonstrated to them by their Chinese partners), for most companies to pass up. CCP was no doubt rather surprised by the extent of the reaction to this. Lets see what happens in the next year or so.
And yet those same 'Chinese partners' use said cash shops in a Free to Play system. PLEX and paid-for game-time in general are just too integral to EVE Online to make that viable, and thus any attempt at 'Pay-to-Win' would be an exercise in self-suicide. Nobody who wants everything handed to them in a 'Pay-to-Win' method is going to also, on top of that, pay for a subscription fee. If CCP did it with EVE, they'd be the only one, and shortly thereafter they'd be the last ones to do it, sitting on a corpse that once was the grandest of MMO experiments.
“…whatever we do, and whatever parts of the game it touches that this player arbitrage remain. That there is not a magical appearance or vanishing of items by CCP, that this is more player driven.”
These are words only spoken by those that understand EVE Online and its players- the grand sandbox experiment. The butterfly effect. Chaos theory. Emergent gameplay.
I am more than willing to take the CSM's word on the non-validity of the leaked documents (though I do agree that Hilmar still needs to make a public apology, for the same reasons TheMittani gave). I realize not everyone will, and I hope that the minutes for the emergency summit are released soon enough so that we have better evidence to this point.
Well, that would be true if this was all about EVE in the western markets, but its not. You do realize that there are actually two EVE's? China has its own shard. If EVE China turns out to be massively successful, do you really think that given some of CCP's leaderships attitudes, that they would mind losing half or more of their western players? The entire enterprise would still be much more profitable over all.
Do you remember the presentation made last year at the GDC, about merging the two shards? I'm still waiting to see how that turns out, or if it does. Given the Chinese governments obsession with control, and manipulation of perception (internal/external), its going to be difficult to say the least.
As for the CSM, while their heart is in the right place, I've always considered the entire exercise to be more a cynical PR move on the part of CCP, than any real change of attitude. Think about their value from a perception management perspective, and it makes much more sense.
They made clear that there would never be a merging of virtual worlds. Issues of legality and governance.
The chinese eve, it's about a year behind us on Tranquility, and they spend too much time discussing how they don't want incarna and recently fears of hardware requirements rising. In between local politics and very similar drama. I can't find it at the moment, but there was a series of blog posts from a bunch of TQ players doing stuff on EVE China. All I have handy is http://ceve.tumblr.com, google may fill in the rest.
This is not the cash shop you think it is... There is and never will be that type of cash shop... Move along, move along... ^^
Only time will tell if this is only a tactical retreat, or if they are sincere. My money is on tactical retreat. There is simply WAY too much money to be made in an eastern style cash shop (as no doubt demonstrated to them by their Chinese partners), for most companies to pass up. CCP was no doubt rather surprised by the extent of the reaction to this. Lets see what happens in the next year or so.
And yet those same 'Chinese partners' use said cash shops in a Free to Play system. PLEX and paid-for game-time in general are just too integral to EVE Online to make that viable, and thus any attempt at 'Pay-to-Win' would be an exercise in self-suicide. Nobody who wants everything handed to them in a 'Pay-to-Win' method is going to also, on top of that, pay for a subscription fee. If CCP did it with EVE, they'd be the only one, and shortly thereafter they'd be the last ones to do it, sitting on a corpse that once was the grandest of MMO experiments.
“…whatever we do, and whatever parts of the game it touches that this player arbitrage remain. That there is not a magical appearance or vanishing of items by CCP, that this is more player driven.”
These are words only spoken by those that understand EVE Online and its players- the grand sandbox experiment. The butterfly effect. Chaos theory. Emergent gameplay.
I am more than willing to take the CSM's word on the non-validity of the leaked documents (though I do agree that Hilmar still needs to make a public apology, for the same reasons TheMittani gave). I realize not everyone will, and I hope that the minutes for the emergency summit are released soon enough so that we have better evidence to this point.
Well, that would be true if this was all about EVE in the western markets, but its not. You do realize that there are actually two EVE's? China has its own shard. If EVE China turns out to be massively successful, do you really think that given some of CCP's leaderships attitudes, that they would mind losing half or more of their western players? The entire enterprise would still be much more profitable over all.
Do you remember the presentation made last year at the GDC, about merging the two shards? I'm still waiting to see how that turns out, or if it does. Given the Chinese governments obsession with control, and manipulation of perception (internal/external), its going to be difficult to say the least.
As for the CSM, while their heart is in the right place, I've always considered the entire exercise to be more a cynical PR move on the part of CCP, than any real change of attitude. Think about their value from a perception management perspective, and it makes much more sense.
They made clear that there would never be a merging of virtual worlds. Issues of legality and governance.
The chinese eve, it's about a year behind us on Tranquility, and they spend too much time discussing how they don't want incarna and recently fears of hardware requirements rising. In between local politics and very similar drama. I can't find it at the moment, but there was a series of blog posts from a bunch of TQ players doing stuff on EVE China. All I have handy is http://ceve.tumblr.com, google may fill in the rest.
Well... Then Hilmar is rather confused... ^^ He gave a presentation last year at the 2010 CGDC and he spoke about merging the two shards. I totally iagree that its a "crazy" idea, given how obsessive the Chinese government is, but here is the link.
Then of course later, Hilmar was deemed to have been "misunderstood"... I find this second one more likely, given the reality of the Chinese governments heavy handed approach to such things.
I just don't grasp what you are complaining about. If the game does not entertain you anymore, then you should leave, but until they put non fluff items in the store, you are basically tilting at windmills if you base leaving the game on this incident.
I consider the chance CCP will add game affecting items to the store to be next to nil after all this silly brohuha.
The way CCP is treating its playerbase is why I left. I won't throw good money after bad. They've shown time and time again they cannot be trusted (the T20 fiasco, etc). Their apologies are weak or non-existant. Their explainations are spin-doctoring to the extreme.
A $70 monocle just a symptom of a much bigger problem with CCP. Their leaked memos and emails show their true colors. They've said they won't put "game breaking" items into the shop. Not "no non-vanity items". And that 80 year excuse is a piece of crap trying to justify why they won't say "never". But what if they start selling Fleet Stabbers for $29 bucks, or Megathrons for $50. They are not "game-breaking". But they'll break the game for many people. The people who build them, the people who mine the minerals for them, etc. They won't commit to not selling those. Not even for the short term.
No "game breaking" additions. As such, it's their game, they make the rules and they decide what is game breaking. What qualifies? Too long a topic so this was avoided.
Will funcational things be added? Yes. How big and how soon are the only questions.
"we held off on plex for remaps" - not canned it, just held off, as in postponed for now so that will be an early addition being as the community had mixed reactions to it - mostly negative so they backed off at that time.
Nothing different from when all the hooplah started so they held their ground but managed to calm down most of their community.
It'll now boil down to $$$ - "too expensive!" as they roll in the stuff versus it's being introduced at all.
One year ago CCP declared emphatically in a dev blog there would be absolutely no mictro transactions in EVE ever. Now we have MT.
Within a year we will have game breaking things in the MT store and the Mittani is the biggest waste of space in EVE, his ego is so big the only reason why he tollerates other players in the game is because without them he'd have no ego. Thus, the whole reason for this PR drama is that CCP are looking at the weakest fool in the CSM. Mittani pretends to be the one who stands up to CCP but the moment they offer him a job he'll run to them and embrace them with open arms, just like his Goon predecessor.
Where? To both statements. I'm curious to see your research.
That's rather in line with regular group behaviour following social upheavals, can't as such be used for any attempt at quantying feedback trends.
I'm curious to see your research.
I'm sure there is a local university with a basic credit course in sociology :P Your post indicated an overview or a trend among users, hence my question. The latter is quite commonplace, and will not be hard to validate. I'll give you a hint though, it's a concept which we in this industry are familiar with as an aspect of game theory.
Oh, so you are in the industry. That explains your hard trolling against CCP... Never hurts to stab the competition a bit, does it.
Funny though, that I never learned that in any of my courses...
You can do better than an attempt of personal attack than that, please don't disappoint us in your next reply.
Equally, it is not a good practice to make assumptions. The hint is in the verb, assume.
I can't see how I am trolling though, back serious again, I love EVE and I am genuinely concerned. I understand it's business, that is the way it is. But I have seen CCP for longer than today, and communications has always been a challenge for it. Just like CCP has always had a strong element of only picking those points of information which validate its own preconceptions.
Which is why I think it was good that the CSM went to Iceland. In a crisis like this, clearly tainted by communicative challenges it is a good thing to exchange viewpoints and to go over the available data. It's something which made me give a sizeable part of my votes to the Mittani, but sadly he has kinda lost himself on the stage. But I am sure he will get a grip again.
This as opposed to reflexive statements, or general convictions filled with "most X" or "more Y" and such.
Should update the game info, at top it shows retail price of $29.99.. in reality the client is free. First month sub is $19.99 then $14.99/month after.
I'm an 8-year player (since beta) and this is my primary hobby/game. So I have a LOT invested in Eve.
I see this a s a triumph for the player-base and a vindication of the CSM. If there ever was a policy of introducing "gold ammo" to Eve, it has gone now.
I also truly expected CCP to back down as soon as they saw the strength of feeling amongst the player-base. CCP are not as despotic and dictatorial as some of the paranoid amongst the players seem to believe. I do really believe that they listen.
- Banks are not taking risks and getting one to lend is very difficult.
- CCP will probably not get a renewal on their loan and only has enough cash to survive for about a year.
- DUST beta launches at the end of the year.
The speculation:
CCP is in a tight spot if they can't find a way to make significantly more revenue in less than a year, or they will need to stop production on both DUST and WOD. The obvious solution would be to release either DUST or WOD, but that places your entire company's future onto a successful launch/game. This is where the cash shop becomes so important to CCP. If they can get a nice revenue spike from the CS items, then that will make getting the loan renewed much easier, and also means that the company can run for that much longer. However, what happens if Cash Shop sales bomb? CCP will be forced to change their position within 1 or 2 weeks of their loan repayment deadline.
The cold hard truth:
The CSM meeting is a PR move, and the player's voice is irrelevant at this point. CCP will have to sell " gold ammo " by the end of Oct. if CS sales are not performing well.
4. EVE is not a game. For a lot of people EVE is there primary hobbie...for six to seven years a number of players having been playing EVE as some people watch or keep track of sports. They become invested. The game is a very important part of their life.
No, EVE is definitely a game. If anyone finds themselves in this position, they've taken it too far and they seriously need to re-evaluate their priorities and consider walking away.
CCP will not promise to never sell items of power in the cash shop, it is not in their interest to do so and expect them to continue to dance around the issue endlessly.
If you cannot accept this, walk away now, and save yourself the frustration, because after all, it really is just a game.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Actually I think the fact that the "CSM Chairperson" couldn't manage to sound like an articulate adult and felt the need to constantly inject profanity while insulting lots of EVE players (as well as throwing in a totally OT slam at the Tea Party movement) was far more telling.
CCP clearly dropped the ball on this one from a PR standpoint, but that is hardly anything new for them. Everything about Incarna and Ambulation has been a hysterical PR blunder for a while now.
Comments
Several Comments
1) I will stay with EVE till I don't want to play anymore. Of course, I expect everyone else to do the same. If you are not having fun then you shouldn't play.
2) I believe that CCP will do whatever they believe is the best for their business model.
3) The CSM does not have power. They are simply representatives of the players...also, you could say they are representatives of a particular type of player. If you look at the percentage of people that voted...and who voted...I like the CSM, I think it is awesome that CCP goes to such great lenghts to cater to them, and perhaps even listen to them.
4. EVE is not a game. For a lot of people EVE is there primary hobbie...for six to seven years a number of players having been playing EVE as some people watch or keep track of sports. They become invested. The game is a very important part of their life.
5. Customers have felt betrayed. The corporate email, the CCPs corporate mag, and the tone of the first blog post, basically say that CCP has a model in mind for their game that doesn't mesh with a number of EVE players. The CSM gets flown out, and CCP gets their position clarified. However, it is based on trust...and people see CCP's promise of not including "game breaking" as vague. Trust...people trusted CCP, they saw CCP as a different kind of company. However, with the NEX and Incarna...the look and feel of EVE has changed. People who have been playing this game of 6-7 years a major change like incarna and the nex could be traumatic, but they accepted it well enough...until the leaks came out.
7. Once you find out that your wife or husband has cheated on you, you may get back together or forgive them, but it is never quite the same.
Currently Play: ?
Occasionally Play: Champions, Pirates of the Burning Sea, WOW, EVE ONLINE
Cheated?
Huh?
CCP actually never ever said they would NEVER have micro transactions. (If they did, please find me that quote.) They just said, as they do now about non vanity items, that they had no plans to do it.
That can't be counted as cheating.
Reading more into messages than what is there seems to be a major issue with some EvE players...
And what should that post have been? A statement that they would NEVER have non vanity items?
Would never happen. Any company making such a bold statement is setting themselfs up to loose. They did they best and most honest thing they could: Said they had no plans for it.
When forced on the issue they showed said planning to the CSM under NDA to have them confirm, that indeed, there is no such plans.
End of none existing issue.
I'm curious to see your research.
Actually, to use that analogy, I would like to think it's more like a spouse that found their significant other talking with another person about sexual acts casually, but hadn't necessarily intended to do such acts with the person. Note that I said 'necessarily' - to communicate the uncertainty of the situation. They may have decided to actually do naughty things with the other person had they not been spotted, or they may have just left it at that.
Not going to analyze it past that, but I think it gives the appropriate impression.
And yet those same 'Chinese partners' use said cash shops in a Free to Play system. PLEX and paid-for game-time in general are just too integral to EVE Online to make that viable, and thus any attempt at 'Pay-to-Win' would be an exercise in self-suicide. Nobody who wants everything handed to them in a 'Pay-to-Win' method is going to also, on top of that, pay for a subscription fee. If CCP did it with EVE, they'd be the only one, and shortly thereafter they'd be the last ones to do it, sitting on a corpse that once was the grandest of MMO experiments.
“…whatever we do, and whatever parts of the game it touches that this player arbitrage remain. That there is not a magical appearance or vanishing of items by CCP, that this is more player driven.”
These are words only spoken by those that understand EVE Online and its players- the grand sandbox experiment. The butterfly effect. Chaos theory. Emergent gameplay.
I am more than willing to take the CSM's word on the non-validity of the leaked documents (though I do agree that Hilmar still needs to make a public apology, for the same reasons TheMittani gave). I realize not everyone will, and I hope that the minutes for the emergency summit are released soon enough so that we have better evidence to this point.
One of those types of antics is known as push polling. Dishonest doesn't even begin to describe those who use such tactics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Push_poll
Given some of CCP's current associates, I'd not be at all surprised if they had picked up various nasty habits.
It remains to be seen if this is merely a tactical retreat, or anything long term.
Its obvious from some of the leaked messages, what the attitude of CCP's upper management is towards its players, these days. That wasn't the case 5-6 years ago. Or they were MUCH better at keeping it hidden. CCP *WAS* quite the exception among game companies back then. But its also obvious that success has changed their leaderships attitudes and perceptions. They would hardly be the first (nor sadly, the last...) company to go this route.
No, EVE is definitely a game. If anyone finds themselves in this position, they've taken it too far and they seriously need to re-evaluate their priorities and consider walking away.
CCP will not promise to never sell items of power in the cash shop, it is not in their interest to do so and expect them to continue to dance around the issue endlessly.
If you cannot accept this, walk away now, and save yourself the frustration, because after all, it really is just a game.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I just don't grasp what you are complaining about. If the game does not entertain you anymore, then you should leave, but until they put non fluff items in the store, you are basically tilting at windmills if you base leaving the game on this incident.
I consider the chance CCP will add game affecting items to the store to be next to nil after all this silly brohuha.
Well, that would be true if this was all about EVE in the western markets, but its not. You do realize that there are actually two EVE's? China has its own shard. If EVE China turns out to be massively successful, do you really think that given some of CCP's leaderships attitudes, that they would mind losing half or more of their western players? The entire enterprise would still be much more profitable over all.
Do you remember the presentation made last year at the GDC, about merging the two shards? I'm still waiting to see how that turns out, or if it does. Given the Chinese governments obsession with control, and manipulation of perception (internal/external), its going to be difficult to say the least.
As for the CSM, while their heart is in the right place, I've always considered the entire exercise to be more a cynical PR move on the part of CCP, than any real change of attitude. Think about their value from a perception management perspective, and it makes much more sense.
I'm sure there is a local university with a basic credit course in sociology :P Your post indicated an overview or a trend among users, hence my question. The latter is quite commonplace, and will not be hard to validate. I'll give you a hint though, it's a concept which we in this industry are familiar with as an aspect of game theory.
Remember, the only reason that CCP had to have this emergency meeting with the players was because their internal documents got out that showed they were clearly discussing selling game effecting items. It isn't like this is the first time they have been caught trying to monetize gameplay (plexs for faster training).
Everything that happens after that is more about damage control than it is about being honest. The whole situation could have been handled with a simple post to the players.
Instead what CCP gave people was some PR stunt with heavily scripted and restricted information. The conclusion they want people to have is that they just had a miscommunication about the cash store and to ignore what they do behind closed doors when they think no one is watching. Instead people should trust that they will live up to their vague non commitments on the subject and will not introduce game affecting items.
Sort of reminds me of the used car commercials where they customer keeps asking for the carfax and the dealer is desperate to avoid giving out the details.
They made clear that there would never be a merging of virtual worlds. Issues of legality and governance.
The chinese eve, it's about a year behind us on Tranquility, and they spend too much time discussing how they don't want incarna and recently fears of hardware requirements rising. In between local politics and very similar drama. I can't find it at the moment, but there was a series of blog posts from a bunch of TQ players doing stuff on EVE China. All I have handy is http://ceve.tumblr.com, google may fill in the rest.
Well... Then Hilmar is rather confused... ^^ He gave a presentation last year at the 2010 CGDC and he spoke about merging the two shards. I totally iagree that its a "crazy" idea, given how obsessive the Chinese government is, but here is the link.
http://news.mmosite.com/content/2010-08-05/cgdc_2010_eve_onlines_chinese_server_to_be_merged_with_its_world_server.shtml
Then of course later, Hilmar was deemed to have been "misunderstood"... I find this second one more likely, given the reality of the Chinese governments heavy handed approach to such things.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2010/08/05/ccp-responds-to-rumour-of-server-merger-with-eve-china/
The way CCP is treating its playerbase is why I left. I won't throw good money after bad. They've shown time and time again they cannot be trusted (the T20 fiasco, etc). Their apologies are weak or non-existant. Their explainations are spin-doctoring to the extreme.
A $70 monocle just a symptom of a much bigger problem with CCP. Their leaked memos and emails show their true colors. They've said they won't put "game breaking" items into the shop. Not "no non-vanity items". And that 80 year excuse is a piece of crap trying to justify why they won't say "never". But what if they start selling Fleet Stabbers for $29 bucks, or Megathrons for $50. They are not "game-breaking". But they'll break the game for many people. The people who build them, the people who mine the minerals for them, etc. They won't commit to not selling those. Not even for the short term.
Nice rhetoric from CCP. Very nicely done.
No "game breaking" additions. As such, it's their game, they make the rules and they decide what is game breaking. What qualifies? Too long a topic so this was avoided.
Will funcational things be added? Yes. How big and how soon are the only questions.
"we held off on plex for remaps" - not canned it, just held off, as in postponed for now so that will be an early addition being as the community had mixed reactions to it - mostly negative so they backed off at that time.
Nothing different from when all the hooplah started so they held their ground but managed to calm down most of their community.
It'll now boil down to $$$ - "too expensive!" as they roll in the stuff versus it's being introduced at all.
One year ago CCP declared emphatically in a dev blog there would be absolutely no mictro transactions in EVE ever. Now we have MT.
Within a year we will have game breaking things in the MT store and the Mittani is the biggest waste of space in EVE, his ego is so big the only reason why he tollerates other players in the game is because without them he'd have no ego. Thus, the whole reason for this PR drama is that CCP are looking at the weakest fool in the CSM. Mittani pretends to be the one who stands up to CCP but the moment they offer him a job he'll run to them and embrace them with open arms, just like his Goon predecessor.
You can do better than an attempt of personal attack than that, please don't disappoint us in your next reply.
Equally, it is not a good practice to make assumptions. The hint is in the verb, assume.
I can't see how I am trolling though, back serious again, I love EVE and I am genuinely concerned. I understand it's business, that is the way it is. But I have seen CCP for longer than today, and communications has always been a challenge for it. Just like CCP has always had a strong element of only picking those points of information which validate its own preconceptions.
Which is why I think it was good that the CSM went to Iceland. In a crisis like this, clearly tainted by communicative challenges it is a good thing to exchange viewpoints and to go over the available data. It's something which made me give a sizeable part of my votes to the Mittani, but sadly he has kinda lost himself on the stage. But I am sure he will get a grip again.
This as opposed to reflexive statements, or general convictions filled with "most X" or "more Y" and such.
Should update the game info, at top it shows retail price of $29.99.. in reality the client is free. First month sub is $19.99 then $14.99/month after.
I'm an 8-year player (since beta) and this is my primary hobby/game. So I have a LOT invested in Eve.
I see this a s a triumph for the player-base and a vindication of the CSM. If there ever was a policy of introducing "gold ammo" to Eve, it has gone now.
I also truly expected CCP to back down as soon as they saw the strength of feeling amongst the player-base. CCP are not as despotic and dictatorial as some of the paranoid amongst the players seem to believe. I do really believe that they listen.
I'm pleased with the outcome.
The facts:
- Banks are not taking risks and getting one to lend is very difficult.
- CCP will probably not get a renewal on their loan and only has enough cash to survive for about a year.
- DUST beta launches at the end of the year.
The speculation:
CCP is in a tight spot if they can't find a way to make significantly more revenue in less than a year, or they will need to stop production on both DUST and WOD. The obvious solution would be to release either DUST or WOD, but that places your entire company's future onto a successful launch/game. This is where the cash shop becomes so important to CCP. If they can get a nice revenue spike from the CS items, then that will make getting the loan renewed much easier, and also means that the company can run for that much longer. However, what happens if Cash Shop sales bomb? CCP will be forced to change their position within 1 or 2 weeks of their loan repayment deadline.
The cold hard truth:
The CSM meeting is a PR move, and the player's voice is irrelevant at this point. CCP will have to sell " gold ammo " by the end of Oct. if CS sales are not performing well.
This is pretty much all that's need to be said.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Actually I think the fact that the "CSM Chairperson" couldn't manage to sound like an articulate adult and felt the need to constantly inject profanity while insulting lots of EVE players (as well as throwing in a totally OT slam at the Tea Party movement) was far more telling.
CCP clearly dropped the ball on this one from a PR standpoint, but that is hardly anything new for them. Everything about Incarna and Ambulation has been a hysterical PR blunder for a while now.