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The Death Of Star Wars Galaxies: Sony Online Entertainment President John Smedley Talks
firefly2003
Member UncommonPosts: 2,527
By now you all know that Star Wars Galaxies will be switched off in the coming months, but what you might not know is that it was destined to be turned off in 2012 according to their current contract. Also, the game has already had its "end date" extended twice, far beyond the original planned five year license.
"A lot of people don't know about this because we don't talk about it, but we've already extended the game end a couple of times. When we originally approached LucasArts back in 2001 for the original license, we planned it to be a five year window for the game. And that seemed like a hell of a long time! This was back in the early days of EverQuest with had only been out for just over a year, so we didn't know about the shelf life of these things."
Smedley cited business reasons, the way the product had performed, and the fact that Star Wars: The Old Republic is on the way soon from EA as contibuting to the decision to end the title. While he admits that SWTOR is being created by a talented team, they'll need "At least two million subscribers at launch to support that game. I know how much it cost to make that title, and that's what they need."
But Smedley was still shocked by the actual death knell for the game. "That really hurt," Smedley said soberly, "We had a dedicated group of people working on that thing, and it will be really sad to see it go." But he added that the game will "Go out with a bang" as they have big plans for the end of Galaxies. As for why they didn't hold the announcement of the closure until after Fan Faire, Smedley said "That would have been a dick move." He feels that pain just as much as the fans do.
Comments
I really loved that game pre-CU. I even liked it when they had the mystic man and the city in mist which would allow you to pick up just a few force sensitive abilities....I planed on making a Master Pikewoman and some force powers to become a Nightsister.
Anyway, that game had me captured! I never left it....it left me.
Heh , so I'm reading this word for word , and if I'm getting this straight , what will happen if let's say 5 years from now they release Star Wars : The NEW republic (lame example) ? Are they just going to close Old republic as if nothing ever hapenned? Lineage 1 and 2 have no problems running along with Aion , so I fail to understand why Galaxies can't run along with ToR? And another thing that raises questions , if every MMO is under contract and a contract ends , does it simply mean they turn off the game and run away with all the profit they made out of us?
I don't know , that's just my way of seeing things , which is way out the box.
Yeah thats a shame, I guess Bonzo, Chim Chim, Kiki and Peanut will have to move back to the zoo.
Man the unbridled nerve of this jackass. This is the guy who has been at the helm for the entire trainwreck of SWG (which could, even should, have been a brlliant game, even the "first" Wow, if SOE wasn't apperently managed by the fiscally suicidal) and he has the unmitigated gall to insinuate that SWTOR may have trouble breaking even on their investment, let alone stomping his little abomination into the ground.
It used to be I would have danced at the news that SOE canned this turkey, but now days I think they richly deserve each other, and him being there at least makes other companies safe from his two-faced baffoonery.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Well, SWTOR was made in a Post-WoW MMO-era, which has already proven that games can last longer than 5yrs.
LA probably didn't put similar short-term lengths in its deals with Bioware, because LA has the proven fiscal results that Bioware games can sell in the millions while they're still relevant.
L1/L2 aren't in the same exact universe as Aion though. While they may have similarities, it's completely different than having 2 Star Wars games running at once.
Plus, I doubt SWG is profitable anymore. For whatever the length of extension, unless SoE was getting some dying-kid-discount on the fees, I doubt they'd be able to run the game without taking a loss/having to extend earnings from Station Pass to help cover the overhead.
And there's already a few other MMO's that could very well end if a contract renegotiation or extension falls flat. But that's what you get when you license a popular, existing IP.
You get a set amount of time to prove your product is profitable enough to warrent its continued existence to the target fan-base.
So in a few years, I wouldn't doubt if STO gets closed due to Paramount not renewing, or AoC could be closed if Funcom loses that license, or LoTRO if the Tolkien estate pulls it back, or DDO if WotC reels that back in.
Hell, even Champion's Online is a licensed IP, though for as bad as that game is, I'm betting its more profitable than all the table-top core stuff CO was based on anyways.
And they're not running away, nor do they owe you a damned thing when they shut the game down. They're taking the money they earned off a product that people willingly and knowingly choose to spend their own money on.
Sensible Business 101: Cut your losses.
SWG is to SoE as News of the World is to News Corporation.
Both are fiscal liabilities steeped in controversy, neither performing anywhere near their peak performance, both to be dead by years end (NotW ends tomorrow though..)
Lets Push Things Forward
I knew I would live to design games at age 7, issue 5 of Nintendo Power.
Support games with subs when you believe in their potential, even in spite of their flaws.
Here's the thing. It is no secret that SOE has been hurting financially for some time. The whole hacking spree recently I'm sure made their company hemorage a whole ton more money that they didn't have. So I feel the whole "It was all LA's decsion" is just so much horse pucky from a man long associated to jiggling the details to make himself exempt from any blame. What I really feel happend is the cost to renew the license was more than the profit that SWG brought in, and considering SWG has been pretty much an albatross to both SOE and LA for years they decided not to bother to try to negotiate a more reasonable price. So in Smeds mind that makes it all LA's fault.
For the people saying that LA doesn't want two SW games running makes no sense. They just get payed for the license, and maybe a percentage of the profits. The MMO company handles all the overhead. Creating and maintaining the game should cost LA nothing. So financially it would make sense to get payed twice, even if one companies product is substandard. So either LA felt SWG was such a black mark on the SW name they didn't want it around any more, or SOE just couldn't cough up the cash, or made such a ridiculous low ball renegotiation offer that LA told them to go "bleep" themselves.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
One of the reasons the Smed cited was "the way the product performed". The sub numbers are low enough to where losing any of them to TOR would make the game not profitable. That is why SOE had no interest in extending the contract. If SWG had enough subs, they would have extended the contract.
"we approached LucasSarts in 2001", I guess that just about squashes every statement that says LA creating SWG and controlling it?
I blame LA completely. Why? Because I have seen this before. LA is greedy. Smedley says the game was not profitable. Yet Ultima Online still continues as do other old mmos. The difference - licensing fees. SWG was not profitable because they did not make enough to cover the LA licensing fees and still make a good enough profit.
This is the third time I have seen companies with a Star Wars license lose it. In the paper rpg world West End Games had a Star Wars license for some years and produced some fantastic rpg products. Wizards of the Coast (of D and D fame) then took over and they also lost their license. Yes, sales were down after the years but the key was the licensing fees.
LA is to blame.
Sigh. Will this stop me from buying the SWTOR Collector's Edition? No. Fools never learn.
If Sony had made a better game maybe they'd be able to afford the license.
Afford? how can Sony afford something which is not even for sale? LA doesn't want to renew the license, its that simple.
Heso o kamedomo oyobanu -- Don't cut off your nose to spite your face.
Why oh why does this come off (maybe it's me?) that smed is blaming ToR for it's closure and then goes on to say they need 2M subs, when it was made clear to investors it need 1/4 of that.
Seems really strange he knows more about a game he isn't on, hasn't developed, nor able to analyze yet knows it needs X amount of subs when people who are on it, know the details say it needs 500K.
Seems a little lashing out at the game which i dislike when forum posters do it, and even more so when company leaders do it. It's one thing to state reasons it's a whole nother to ellude that somehow it needs a much higher number then was already stated it needed.
As for LA? they allowed the extenstion what was it twice? beyond the normal game even though it wasn't doing that hot? Sounds pretty fair. My thoughts were they were allowing it to go on until a new game came out that might do better then the current one. They basically did this i feel so star wars would stay on the scene of the MMo world until ToR comes out so people don't forget about it. The same could very well happen to ToR in X amount of years. If it does i'll be a little sad but i'll move on
Hes starting to come off to me as man we had to let the title go becuase of another game coming out, and now is trying to pull a I tell you they need lots of money so they will fail, this is what you get for turning your backs on us type of feeling. But that could just be me.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
I look at this from a completely different perspective, I first don't see how it benefits TOR to have another Star Wars MMO available. WIth SWG out of the way, those playing it for a Star Wars fix, will have only one option at their disposal, TOR. I'd suggest the *** but if they wanted to play that they would be.
I also don't see how it benefits SOE to drop galaxies from their stable, as that's even less of a reason to have a full station account. Which shows with them redoing the plan around the same time as this sunsetting annoucment. I can't help but feel if SOE could they'd continue to milk SWG for as long as they could.
I fail to see how this deal benefits SOE in any shape or form, they gain nothing. If anything they lose something that may have swayed some tendancy to sign up for everything.
I can't imagine the license fee would be that much to offset any profitability, I really can't.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Save us from conspiracy theorists. West End Games losing the SW license had nothing to do with LA. Nor did Wizards of the Coast usurp them. West End bought up a bunch of other IP licenses to make new games and none of those sold worth a crap. Their games like Torg also fell flat. Even the new stuff they released for their starting title game, Paranoia stunk on ice. West End went bankrupt because they kept throwing money into poorly made products that did not get a decent fan following/customer base. Just like SOE and SWG. If the cost of the SW license, arguably the one of the best known sci fi franchises in the world, makes SWG not profitable, that isn't the fault of LA. It is the fault of SOE who failed financially not with just one version of the game but with two. In the hands of a more competent company (management wise) SWG would most likely have been a break away success.
I too agree that LA are some arrogant dickweeds at the best of times, but lets lay the blame where it belongs.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Two license fees. Why does everyone forget about SOE also having Clone Wars Adventures? Which I'd be willing to bet is already more profitable than SWG post CU-NGE ever was.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
My point still stands, as I highly doubt a Free Realmsish product is going to contend with TOR in any shape or form. I look at it as a push to get people to move from SWG to TOR, I'll freely admit I could be wrong, but I have a hard time seeing SOE do anything that doesn't effect them positively finacially, I fail to see how losing SWG does in any way.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
It doesn't need to contend with TOR, it just has to make SOE more money than SWG. And at the same time cost them less to maintain.
On the subject of SOE business decisions, I also fail to see how pumping five years of time and money into The Agency then pulling the plug benefitted SOE in any way either. Facts are, they did just that. I also fail to see why creating a sequel to a game they let go totally rotten (Planetside 2) makes sense when they already have other exisitng games they could upgrade with less effort.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
From the mouth of the same guy that didn't think it was a dick move to sneakily spring an entire sweeping game change on an entire player base.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
PR every word is a lie. LA gave up on the game after the NGE, it never brought in the people they thought a SW title should. Since then SOE has beem milking the playerbase without a Dev team. Everything they did since NGE isnt even half an expansion. Smed planned this, the extensions where probably due to timing for the release of TOR, as long as that game wasnt out Smed could milk the remaining playerbase for one more year.
Smeds the reason SOE is going down the toilet. If SOE is around in 5 more years Ill be really suprised. Everything they make is a failure, Sonys corp itself is in trouble. Who wants to buy thier over priced TV's when they can get the same thing from China for half the price.
Didn't say it had to contend with TOR as it's a product aimed at a completely different subset of this market.
That's not the case with SWG, as the NGE in and of itself was a product designed for the specific market TOR is being aimed at. Even down to "people not liking to read".... Wait was it an SOE rep that said that ? Nope it was an LA rep.
As for the agency, There was obviously something wrong with it, as they were very quiet the entirety of that games development lifespan, and they canned it, which means they didn't feel it would be profitable. I guess they see profitability in PS2. It's not like there are a host of shooter options offering massive combat at the scale PS does.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Maybe I missed someone who might have already addressed this, but here is where I get lost in the nerve of companies that do stuff like this. How do I play the game that I bought and paid for now? If I am playing Zelda, no matter what has happened at Nintendo I still always have the ability to play the game I bought and paid for. So as long as that disc or cartridge works I should always have the ability to play Zelda. My SWG discs are fine, the data on my comp is not corrupted, etc., etc. I no longer partake in the tragedy that is SWG but this should be a huge alarm that is going off in all MMO player's heads. You paid for something that belongs to you and they are purposely making it unplayable.
I have no illusions that a game that is played on servers is going to last forever, but that is also why I believe the only time the word 'free' should be included when it comes to MMO's is when they are talking about the purchase price. At 15 dollars a month, plus the purchase price of SWG and its expansions, one persons investment in the game from day one could be well over 1500 dollars. Where does that person go to litigate getting back at least the 50 dollars and expansion costs for the game they are breaking permanently.
The best comparison I could give would be if Nintendo walked into the homes of everyone who owned a Zelda game and just smashed all their discs or cartridges. I understand that IPs have special rights as to their distribution, and EULA's most likely all state that they have the right to kill your game, but in my most sincere sympathies for failures of entertainment, they do not. Even if I bought an Engelbert Humperdink CD, and it was total junk, I could still listen to it as long as that disc worked. How many Michael Jackson servers were shut down when he died? Oh wait thats right the people who bought and paid for that music will still have that ability to listen to his music.
Every single person who originally paid for SWG and any extra expansions is being shafted out of at least those dollars. Hence the only time the word 'free' should be used in an MMO. Subs are fine that is a chance you take but if you have the right to just destroy the intellectual property as well as the physical property that now belongs to me, I either deserve a refund or you do not have the right to charge a price for the product that I already pay monthly for. Where do I find the site that leads me to my refund?(The refund that should have been issued when they originally ruined/completely changed the game)
Well the game (box and discs) you bought and paid for is good for 30 days is it. Beyond that you have to subcribe. There is also a thing called the EULA agreement that you have have to agree with before you play. As long as you click "I agree" you are at the mercy of their business decisions.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Ad-am
First piece I will addtress is the 30 days. So either I paid 50 dollars for the first 30 days, or they still owe me the 35 dollars difference from the original sale. Looking at the box it says 1 month free included which then totally shoots down what you said which has now turned into 30 days free cost me 50 dollars. Free being the misleading term. Either way your rebutle is invalid. Second I will go ahead and ask that you read the whole post before you get on your high horse and argue a point that was already addressed. Point was lost on you so I will state it plainly. Game companies who force reliance on their equipment and charge you a monthly fee should not charge for their game initially. I know we who MMO would gladly pay our 15 dollars a month which turns into hundreds and for long timers sometimes thousands. What is not right is when they take that which we pay to own and break it permanently. It is the inevitablity of all sub games. We pay out the wazoo and they still own what is legally yours. (I hope I do not have to remind people of the purchasers rights, the law of 9/10ths, Lemon Laws, etc.)
MMO game companies have a responsibility to the purchaser, it is a risk they have to be willing to take when they start this endeavor for our dollars. Compare it to a company that does not do as well as it expected. Do all those employees deserve to just get the can because management did not get what they expected? How many people lose their jobs December 15th? As it stands, if WoW really has or had 12 mil subs I would hate to be at work in Irvine the day they shut that game down. When we as buyers have a product that no longer works because of the manufacturer, then we as buyers have the right to expect compensation in return. This is the lead paint on all the Mattel toys. The faulty wires in your car that cause it to catch on fire. Its all about responsibility and they dropped the ball as will and have so many others. There were still SWG boxes on the shelves at the local Best Buy last Friday.
I have no number on subs for SWG but the way the economy is going and the ageing group that herded to MMOs shows dwindling populations becoming a trend. I paid for EQ2 its now F2P. I bought AoC its now F2P. I bought LoTRO yeah. F2P is lame in my opinion, but I can not be upset about those games, at least they tried to change something, and if I ever wanted to, I could load up those games and still play. Sub games should all be free to load if they have the right to do this to our games. We technically would not own it then and they would not hold any responsibility to us as it was our discretion to play 'their' game. Plus like I stated earlier it would not feel as though they broke into my house and broke my $h1t!
sorry, but its NOT legally yours, you own NOTHING in an mmo, your just renting it, and just like if you rented a game from blockbuster, you dont own it.
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
We already have WoW with light sabers.... it's called SWG:NGE. Smedley pulled too much of the good stuff from SWG over the years to say the current SWG:NGE was any good... I just went back again for a couple of months and I feel the best that can happen to SWG now is shutdown. Let it rest in peace I say.
Smedley still thinks we are idiots. If those statements in the OP are authentic, then Smed sems to me to attempting to lay blame on Lucus Arts for the closure, when most of un know SOE carries enough blame to sink the ship in all this.
Then Smedley attempts to sow "doubt and strife" with the project that is replacing his (in his mind he is being placed)... pathetic on Smed's part, pathetic and sad.
Lucus Arts I believe probably DID ask this time for a pile of cash for SOE to renew the license, especially since SWG would receive a little bit of free advertisement as a result of TOR's release, so I don't think LA was all that "Noble" either.
This whole situation ironically looks like the fiasco of the fall of the Republic in George's story, full of drama and BS.