Promises made by corporate lackeys are as frail as 90 year old cancer patients.
If CCP feels that stat enhancing virtual goods will net revenue without impacting the current playerbase pop, they'll have no qualms about backpedaling.
They were just testing the waters this time.
You see that's the thing they're not promising anything, they were smart enough not to. Saying there are no plans to add (insert), means right now there are no plans, that doesn't mean in two years or even a few months there won't be.
I wouldn't doubt these things were intentionally leaked to as you say, "test the waters". Why not? It can have two effects, A: you see what you're looking at in terms of discourse. B: you get to seem as though you're responding to feedback, which you very much are. This is what responding to feedback is all about, it's not about being moral, it's about not doing things that cost you large chunks of money.
It's really a win, win for CCP.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
This is a business they can't make a commitment like that, it would only fuel ammunition if plans or demographics change. Such a promise would be a death knell, as people such as yourself would use that against them to no end if that time should come. It would tie their hands to ever seeking additional income by an alternative means. You essentially want CCP to sign their business away for your own personal sake, it just ain't gonna happen.
They can, they choose not to. If their intent was to never sell non-vanity items in the game because to do so would fundamentally alter the game's dynamic the could commit to it if they wanted to.
And if they couldn't commit to it for business reasons, they should state that rather than act like they've addressed the players' issues when they haven't. But even acknowledging that they can't do it for business reasons is also acknowledging that CCP despite their protestations IS reserving the right to sell non-vanity items in the store in the future, which is my ultimate point: The thing most clamored about was not addressed during the CSM/CCP production.
They won't is my overall point, they can't promise current players anything in terms of where they will be seeking money in two to three years. You're approaching this issue from a perspective of Eve today, and what effects you while you're playing it. CCP approaches this issue from a perspective of EVE now and forever. The business plan in EVE will follow whatever becomes standard for the inustry as a whole, what's acceptable and what's not changes with time. As do demographics in who is seeking out what entertainment.
You can't expect them to tie their hands on these issues, your concern is EVE, CCP's is the future of EVE and their studio as a whole..
You hope they won't, you can't know they won't.
The point I'm making which you are essentially agreeing with but for reasons I don't agree with: Despite the events that led to the emergency summit meeting with the CSM and its resolution, CCP has not, in fact, committed to selling vanity only items in their store. But, people are acting like the issue has been resolved. Now if people choose to accept CCP's take on the situation that is fine, but nothing is significantly different after the summit than before.
And I'm approaching this as a customer of a product asking the manufacturer to stand by their product. I don't see anything unreasonable about that.
I'm sure EVE's vocal minority will still shout down CCP, but from on/off EVE players perspective CCP's respect, yes RESPECT for thier community is way above and beyond what any other COMPANY has. They are clearly in this for the long run, and they care about thier customers.
I'm sure EVE's vocal minority will still shout down CCP, but from on/off EVE players perspective CCP's respect, yes RESPECT for thier community is way above and beyond what any other COMPANY has. They are clearly in this for the long run, and they care about thier customers.
What respect? The players asked for one thing above all else, a commitment to sell vanity items only in the store. CCP did not make that commitment, but made a big production about pretending to make that commitment.
Promises made by corporate lackeys are as frail as 90 year old cancer patients.
If CCP feels that stat enhancing virtual goods will net revenue without impacting the current playerbase pop, they'll have no qualms about backpedaling.
They were just testing the waters this time.
You see that's the thing they're not promising anything, they were smart enough not to.
As near as I can read CCP are really just saying that in future they need better PR to sell their ideas to the playing public. Remember, what you have seen is the result of months of strategic company buisness planning, they aren't likely to give up on their business model overnight.
I didn't see a commitment to not sell non-vanity items in the cash-shop. Pretty much the cental point of all the issues and it wasn't addressed.
"It is CCP‘s plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only" isn't enough?
I think you're being dramatic. You can't possibly believe that a company would promise you anything, lol.
I'lle throw this one in for free as well:
"Game-affecting Virtual Goods: We are convinced that CCP has no plans to introduce any game-affecting virtual goods, only pure vanity items such as clothing and ship skins. We have been repeatedly assured that there are no plans for ‘gold ammo', ships which have different statistics from existing common hulls, or any other feared ‘game destroying' virtual goods or services. We have expressed our deep concern about potential grey areas that the introduction of virtual goods permits, and CCP has made a commitment to discuss any proposals that might fall into these grey areas in detail with CSM at the earliest possible stage."
None of that is a committment to not do it in the future, which is what people said they wanted. All of that will still be valid and true if they decide to sell skill points, ships, faction rep in the store 6 months down the road with a simple justification of "We came up with a new plan."
Maybe you think I'm being dramatic but if people were screaming for a committment and they put on a whole production and show of addressing player concerns, but failed to make that one committment while trying to act like they did, am I that out of line for thinking they are reserving the right to sell non-vanity items in the future?
It's very simple:
If that time comes, the time when CCP decides to sell "game-breaking" stuff in their store, THAT's when you pull the plug.
But right now, all is well. No plans for it. Stop complaining about things that do not exist (at this time).
That's all I'm saying. Don't get me wrong: I'd leave in a heartbeat as well.
I didn't see a commitment to not sell non-vanity items in the cash-shop. Pretty much the cental point of all the issues and it wasn't addressed.
"It is CCP‘s plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only" isn't enough?
I think you're being dramatic. You can't possibly believe that a company would promise you anything, lol.
I'lle throw this one in for free as well:
"Game-affecting Virtual Goods: We are convinced that CCP has no plans to introduce any game-affecting virtual goods, only pure vanity items such as clothing and ship skins. We have been repeatedly assured that there are no plans for ‘gold ammo', ships which have different statistics from existing common hulls, or any other feared ‘game destroying' virtual goods or services. We have expressed our deep concern about potential grey areas that the introduction of virtual goods permits, and CCP has made a commitment to discuss any proposals that might fall into these grey areas in detail with CSM at the earliest possible stage."
None of that is a committment to not do it in the future, which is what people said they wanted. All of that will still be valid and true if they decide to sell skill points, ships, faction rep in the store 6 months down the road with a simple justification of "We came up with a new plan."
Maybe you think I'm being dramatic but if people were screaming for a committment and they put on a whole production and show of addressing player concerns, but failed to make that one committment while trying to act like they did, am I that out of line for thinking they are reserving the right to sell non-vanity items in the future?
It's very simple:
If that time comes, the time when CCP decides to sell "game-breaking" stuff in their store, THAT's when you pull the plug.
But right now, all is well. No plans for it. Stop complaining about things that do not exist (at this time).
That's all I'm saying. Don't get me wrong: I'd leave in a heartbeat as well.
I'm not complaining. Nor am I saying they ARE going to sell non-vanity items. What I am saying is that CCP has not commited to not selling non-vanity items in the future.
The point I'm making which you are essentially agreeing with but for reasons I don't agree with: Despite the events that led to the emergency summit meeting with the CSM and its resolution, CCP has not, in fact, committed to selling vanity only items in their store. But, people are acting like the issue has been resolved. Now if people choose to accept CCP's take on the situation that is fine, but nothing is significantly different after the summit than before.
And I'm approaching this as a customer of a product asking the manufacturer to stand by their product. I don't see anything unreasonable about that.
Why would I hope they don't? That really makes no sense to say that.
I have a strong feeling they won't, but you're right I can't predict the future. You completely glossed over the reasons I feel that way though. It shows with a comment like "asking the manufacturer to stand by their product"
This isn't about morals for CCP, it's about business. You seem to realize what CCP is doing, yet do not understand why they're doing what they're doing. They're doing whatever it takes to continue making money, without signing over their financial future to current customers. If they made such a promise it would have to be a hollow one, that's not in their interest, you know it, I know it, we all know it.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
This means that down the future EVE Online could become like NC Soft, or other Free 2 Play games where they charge you to change any little detail about your character, for example if you want to change your shirt in EVE, or Change your picture of your 3D Character, they might start charge $5, if not Plex or points for each time we want to make a change, which would totally suck.
They have not made it clear to what they are going to be doing with these so called vanity items, do they mean they are only going to sale clothes, and accessories, and allow us to make any changes we please to our character customization as it is currently, or down the road are they going to BackStab the community like NC Soft & Hirez did, this is a concern that they have not answer, and I will not be staying around if they do this beyond selling acessories, and items, but adding limits on how I can play & enjoy the game.
The point I'm making which you are essentially agreeing with but for reasons I don't agree with: Despite the events that led to the emergency summit meeting with the CSM and its resolution, CCP has not, in fact, committed to selling vanity only items in their store. But, people are acting like the issue has been resolved. Now if people choose to accept CCP's take on the situation that is fine, but nothing is significantly different after the summit than before.
And I'm approaching this as a customer of a product asking the manufacturer to stand by their product. I don't see anything unreasonable about that.
Why would I hope they don't? That really makes no sense to say that.
I have a strong feeling they won't, but you're right I can't predict the future. You completely glossed over the reasons I feel that way though. It shows with a comment like "asking the manufacturer to stand by their product"
This isn't about morals for CCP, it's about business. You seem to realize what CCP is doing, yet do not understand why they're doing what they're doing. They're doing whatever it takes to continue making money, without signing over their financial future to current customers. If they made such a promise it would have to be a hollow one, that's not in their interest, you know it, I know it, we all know it.
You have no idea they won't sell non-vanity items in the future but you think they won't. How is that not hope?
I understand exactly why they are doing it, however I am not CCP. I am a customer of theirs. And in the context of being a customer there is nothing moral about wanting them to stand behind their product. That is a business dynamic.
However what is a moral issue is you seem to be saying its ok for them to lie to their customers to ensure their future business. Personally I don't buy the idea that committing to not sell non-vanity items some how destroys the company, but even if that were true, or perhaps they just believe it is true, why not be honest with the playerbase and say so? My point is that after the CSM summit some people are acting as if its been worked out and I'm just pointing out that no, nothing has changed from before the summit.
You have no idea they won't sell non-vanity items in the future but you think they won't. How is that not hope?
When did I say I think they won't? I actually think they will at some point, which is why I think they're not promising anything at all right now.
Maybe I misunderstood, I thought you were disagreeing with my point that the emergency summit did not resolve the outstanding issue. The reportage and a lot of people however disagree with your statement in red, and think that the summit resolved the issue and non-vanity items will not be sold.
You have no idea they won't sell non-vanity items in the future but you think they won't. How is that not hope?
When did I say I think they won't? I actually think they will at some point, which is why I think they're not promising anything at all right now.
Maybe I misunderstood, I thought you were disagreeing with my point that the emergency summit did not resolve the outstanding issue. The reportage and a lot of people however disagree with your statement in red, and think that the summit resolved the issue and non-vanity items will not be sold.
By all means not at all, if anything I was agreeing on that heh.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Several of us @ the office got together at lunch & the topic of eve game up. There are 4 of us @ work who play & each of us has an second account, usually payed by plex.
It seems everyone was already on their last legs with respect to the continual subsribing. We are all pretty much in the same boat about how tiring, boring & ultimatly unrewarding mmorpgs are, because they never end, & never cease to pluck the equivalent of half your internet bill each month. That said, you can easily get more enjoyment from buying 2 new role playing titles per year for the ps3 for example with your sub money.. At least then you know there is an end, a finish, a goal that can be reached & there is a sense of closure.
Im starting to understand why games are going towards the F2P model, at least then you can pick & choose where your money goes to & you can justify the expense. (at least from a high level overview) . I think the age of subscribtion based games is coming to an end.
If you look at these models closely, sometimes you pay more than the normal sub price.
I dontl know what the problem is even if there were non-vanity items. You either spend time or money to get ahead. Its not a race to get to the top. Not to mention getting to the top is compleely pointless. People would spend (waste) their money, while you all you spend (waste) your time. Some people have more time than others, some people have more money (purhaps wasting your free time on pointless things like eve is why some dont have more money).
I know I'll get flammed because people to stubborn to notice things beyond a certain point, but so what if someone else spends a few days doing what took you months. You wasted your time, they wasted their money. You both win (lose).
I hadn't read Hilmar's email till I saw the post on the eve website about this meeting. The meeting produced nothing for the players.
Once I read the head CSM's response and the mention of the email, I went and looked for it. And oh my, that guy (Hilmar) needs to have his head checked. He cost Eve my 2 accounts. Eve had been trying to get rid of me for a couple of years now, and Hilmar finally succeeded. Buy a round of drinks for your dev team Hilmar on the cash you won't be getting from me any longer. It's only a couple hundred bucks or so a year, but its a couple hundred bucks a year I'll have and they won't. And of course, I'll make sure to NOT recommend Eve to everyone I game with.
I was looking forward to the World of Darkness, but alas, CCP has turned out to be a slimier corporation that SOE/EA/Funcom combined.
So many people have reading comprehension problems I found in this childish reaction to the email.
Hilmar stated they would look at what players DO over what players SAY.
Actions speak louder than words.
People may SAY, "No RMT", but then when the company views the data for RMT sales, ACTIONS speak louder than words.
I dontl know what the problem is even if there were non-vanity items. You either spend time or money to get ahead. Its not a race to get to the top. Not to mention getting to the top is compleely pointless. People would spend (waste) their money, while you all you spend (waste) your time. Some people have more time than others, some people have more money (purhaps wasting your free time on pointless things like eve is why some dont have more money).
I know I'll get flammed because people to stubborn to notice things beyond a certain point, but so what if someone else spends a few days doing what took you months. You wasted your time, they wasted their money. You both win (lose).
Yeah,let's put that to work in the olympics. Bill gates against michael phelps anyone? One using a jet ski, just to ilustrate the point.
The really dumb thing about people getting upset about the RMT, it has been going on since the first month of Eve. Whether it be the gold seller route or using CCP's version of it, you have always been able to plunk your money down somehow and purchase in game items.
Personally I would much rather CCP be getting the money to reinvest in the game, than an outsider.
So it seems to be if you canceled your account over this incident, you are looking pretty silly ATM as you failed to realize this is nothing new, just another way to purchase items.
The really dumb thing about people getting upset about the RMT, it has been going on since the first month of Eve. Whether it be the gold seller route or using CCP's version of it, you have always been able to plunk your money down somehow and purchase in game items.
Personally I would much rather CCP be getting the money to reinvest in the game, than an outsider.
So it seems to be if you canceled your account over this incident, you are looking pretty silly ATM as you failed to realize this is nothing new, just another way to purchase items.
That's what watered down the arguement. If players had been this adament about PLEX....
PLEX was just a test to see if players would accept the idea of RMT. It past...now you have the NeX.
Our greatest glory is not in never falling but in rising everytime we fall.
I like the blindsided apporach gamers take on this. The commitment they are requesting would effect more than just the game, and could impact future investment and development opportunities for CCP.
They could have just told us all they wouldn't, instead they told us the truth. They don't have any plans for it, thats not to say that given certain changes they won't in 6 months or 5 years.
Isn't that the really cool-looking computer thing where everybody is a dick to people and new users in particular need not apply because they can be such in anonymity?
Comments
You see that's the thing they're not promising anything, they were smart enough not to. Saying there are no plans to add (insert), means right now there are no plans, that doesn't mean in two years or even a few months there won't be.
I wouldn't doubt these things were intentionally leaked to as you say, "test the waters". Why not? It can have two effects, A: you see what you're looking at in terms of discourse. B: you get to seem as though you're responding to feedback, which you very much are. This is what responding to feedback is all about, it's not about being moral, it's about not doing things that cost you large chunks of money.
It's really a win, win for CCP.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You hope they won't, you can't know they won't.
The point I'm making which you are essentially agreeing with but for reasons I don't agree with: Despite the events that led to the emergency summit meeting with the CSM and its resolution, CCP has not, in fact, committed to selling vanity only items in their store. But, people are acting like the issue has been resolved. Now if people choose to accept CCP's take on the situation that is fine, but nothing is significantly different after the summit than before.
And I'm approaching this as a customer of a product asking the manufacturer to stand by their product. I don't see anything unreasonable about that.
I'm sure EVE's vocal minority will still shout down CCP, but from on/off EVE players perspective CCP's respect, yes RESPECT for thier community is way above and beyond what any other COMPANY has. They are clearly in this for the long run, and they care about thier customers.
What respect? The players asked for one thing above all else, a commitment to sell vanity items only in the store. CCP did not make that commitment, but made a big production about pretending to make that commitment.
That is not respect.
As near as I can read CCP are really just saying that in future they need better PR to sell their ideas to the playing public. Remember, what you have seen is the result of months of strategic company buisness planning, they aren't likely to give up on their business model overnight.
It's very simple:
If that time comes, the time when CCP decides to sell "game-breaking" stuff in their store, THAT's when you pull the plug.
But right now, all is well. No plans for it. Stop complaining about things that do not exist (at this time).
That's all I'm saying. Don't get me wrong: I'd leave in a heartbeat as well.
I'm not complaining. Nor am I saying they ARE going to sell non-vanity items. What I am saying is that CCP has not commited to not selling non-vanity items in the future.
Why would I hope they don't? That really makes no sense to say that.
I have a strong feeling they won't, but you're right I can't predict the future. You completely glossed over the reasons I feel that way though. It shows with a comment like "asking the manufacturer to stand by their product"
This isn't about morals for CCP, it's about business. You seem to realize what CCP is doing, yet do not understand why they're doing what they're doing. They're doing whatever it takes to continue making money, without signing over their financial future to current customers. If they made such a promise it would have to be a hollow one, that's not in their interest, you know it, I know it, we all know it.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Keyword here.
Vanity Items.
This means that down the future EVE Online could become like NC Soft, or other Free 2 Play games where they charge you to change any little detail about your character, for example if you want to change your shirt in EVE, or Change your picture of your 3D Character, they might start charge $5, if not Plex or points for each time we want to make a change, which would totally suck.
They have not made it clear to what they are going to be doing with these so called vanity items, do they mean they are only going to sale clothes, and accessories, and allow us to make any changes we please to our character customization as it is currently, or down the road are they going to BackStab the community like NC Soft & Hirez did, this is a concern that they have not answer, and I will not be staying around if they do this beyond selling acessories, and items, but adding limits on how I can play & enjoy the game.
You have no idea they won't sell non-vanity items in the future but you think they won't. How is that not hope?
I understand exactly why they are doing it, however I am not CCP. I am a customer of theirs. And in the context of being a customer there is nothing moral about wanting them to stand behind their product. That is a business dynamic.
However what is a moral issue is you seem to be saying its ok for them to lie to their customers to ensure their future business. Personally I don't buy the idea that committing to not sell non-vanity items some how destroys the company, but even if that were true, or perhaps they just believe it is true, why not be honest with the playerbase and say so? My point is that after the CSM summit some people are acting as if its been worked out and I'm just pointing out that no, nothing has changed from before the summit.
When did I say I think they won't? I actually think they will at some point, which is why I think they're not promising anything at all right now.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Maybe I misunderstood, I thought you were disagreeing with my point that the emergency summit did not resolve the outstanding issue. The reportage and a lot of people however disagree with your statement in red, and think that the summit resolved the issue and non-vanity items will not be sold.
By all means not at all, if anything I was agreeing on that heh.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
If you look at these models closely, sometimes you pay more than the normal sub price.
twitch.tv/itpaladin
@ITPalg
YouTube: ITPalGame
I dontl know what the problem is even if there were non-vanity items. You either spend time or money to get ahead. Its not a race to get to the top. Not to mention getting to the top is compleely pointless. People would spend (waste) their money, while you all you spend (waste) your time. Some people have more time than others, some people have more money (purhaps wasting your free time on pointless things like eve is why some dont have more money).
I know I'll get flammed because people to stubborn to notice things beyond a certain point, but so what if someone else spends a few days doing what took you months. You wasted your time, they wasted their money. You both win (lose).
What does this have to do with it? Code loopholes (exploits) always come and go in games.
twitch.tv/itpaladin
@ITPalg
YouTube: ITPalGame
So many people have reading comprehension problems I found in this childish reaction to the email.
Hilmar stated they would look at what players DO over what players SAY.
Actions speak louder than words.
People may SAY, "No RMT", but then when the company views the data for RMT sales, ACTIONS speak louder than words.
twitch.tv/itpaladin
@ITPalg
YouTube: ITPalGame
Yeah,let's put that to work in the olympics. Bill gates against michael phelps anyone? One using a jet ski, just to ilustrate the point.
You are late to the rumor mill party.
twitch.tv/itpaladin
@ITPalg
YouTube: ITPalGame
The really dumb thing about people getting upset about the RMT, it has been going on since the first month of Eve. Whether it be the gold seller route or using CCP's version of it, you have always been able to plunk your money down somehow and purchase in game items.
Personally I would much rather CCP be getting the money to reinvest in the game, than an outsider.
So it seems to be if you canceled your account over this incident, you are looking pretty silly ATM as you failed to realize this is nothing new, just another way to purchase items.
That's what watered down the arguement. If players had been this adament about PLEX....
PLEX was just a test to see if players would accept the idea of RMT. It past...now you have the NeX.
Our greatest glory is not in never falling but in rising everytime we fall.
So we do not have too buy an occular impant now for 80$ , a trouser for 40$?
Or do i still have too sell my isks
for plex
and them for aurum.
Too get some goodies.
Never have bought plexes.
Never wil.
I fins rather strange that they now 3 currency
AK
Oh ... EVE ...
Isn't that the really cool-looking space game where everybody is a dick to PvE-ers and new players in particular need not apply?
I thought so.
I like the blindsided apporach gamers take on this. The commitment they are requesting would effect more than just the game, and could impact future investment and development opportunities for CCP.
They could have just told us all they wouldn't, instead they told us the truth. They don't have any plans for it, thats not to say that given certain changes they won't in 6 months or 5 years.
Fixed
twitch.tv/itpaladin
@ITPalg
YouTube: ITPalGame