Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
General: Guild Sores: First Taste of Combat
SBFord
Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
Ah, good old PVP. There’s nothing like slaying the opposing faction to really add a thrill to your day. It’s the reason some of us play and boy what fun we have doing it. When you play, you are the best -- the very best! No one can kill you; you’re an unstoppable machine of death and destruction… that is, until they actually do kill you. The fun stops there. Check out David North's latest Guild Sores comic to see his take on PvP!
Comments
I always just assumed that I lost at PVP because I'm terrible at PvP.
This hacker thing makes so much more sense!
Try to be excellent to everyone you meet. You never know what someone else has seen or endured.
My Review Manifesto
Follow me on Twitter if you dare.
Or maybe they played for more time and have the uber gear, and just concentrated all their character's powers is one macro, and push the "cause damage" button that they repeatedly while circle strafe you and call this SKILL
Oh. You guys play Warriors too?
Me too! I just hate PvP because i sucked so badly at it..
Its all about being sneaky and clever in the way you engage the enemy..
And then if they somehow manage to beat you its well... because they are a hacker! /quit game..hehehehe
Playing GW2..
I hate PvP because of rogues....well any melee I suppose and their hoping around like a monkey ways to get behind me. Yes I'm terriable at PvP, I realized that the stupid Horde did their kek kek kek. Still when I manage to kill them, it makes me happy. That and I blame mods, regardless if its true or not.=p
Hehe. Personally I never aspired to be the very best, its futile. There will indeed always be some guy or girl much more skilled than I will ever be. By accepting this I can be really happy being second best.
p.s. I love that fourth frame
My brand new bloggity blog.
Never really have problem with hackers. I tend to die duo to constant lag. So if I get killed I kindly inform the person of his mother real proffesion and that he just killed me by pure luck and that his performance is still worse then mine.
The four Golden Rules of PvP:
1. If your teamates/guild score a win then you say “Skillz”
2. If one of them is killed you say “Unlucky”
3. If you kill an enemy, you say “Pwnd!”
4. If they kill you, you say “Fcking Hackers!”
Follow these four simple rules and you will never question what you or your team did wrong and just have a good time.
I'll freely admit I suck at PvP... hell, I'm usually pretty terrible in FPS and RTS games too. But in a role I can help out. Brink? Bring me as an Engineer. Rift? Let me heal.
Just don't ask me to kill anyone because chances are I'll stab myself in the eye.
Try to be excellent to everyone you meet. You never know what someone else has seen or endured.
My Review Manifesto
Follow me on Twitter if you dare.
The base to any MMO is the mechanics. PVP is no exception. If even some no-lifer dose have a hacked toon and don't tell me that there are none. These toons can still be beat by the game mechanics. basic set up for PVP is gear with resilience combined with hard hitting dps combined with heals. In some cases some classes have all 3 in there favor and the play will still suck at pvp.
Mods are a must if you pvp it is a turbo charge if you will for your toon. I will dispute anyone who tells me they are uber with out mods. So to sum it up Mechanic, gear, spells, heals, don't suck and mods will let you become a average pvp player. In order to become uber well that's up to you go cheat or go hack your toon if you wish but if you do become one of those players your nothing more then a COWARD because you cant be MAN enough to pvp properly.
Actually see this all the time. Occasionally when someone of a lower level kills someone of a higher level they claim things such as hacker, op, cheater, bugged, and even lag. While in some cases it is true some games are completely messed up the games that do pvp well have balance and also work on team pvp as well as single player pvp.
Most of the time deaths are blamed on lag and depending on the game it may be true.
Also hackers hax and pvpers p.
I would consider myself an average PvP player.. I can usually manage to get 1-2 more kills then deaths.. But thats another story.. I typically tend to steer clear of PVP, especially as I get older.. (i guess im loosing my teenage rage driven all night pvp fest interest) But I think alot of it is.. and I am not quite sure how to explain this.. but in PvE you spend your entire characters lifetime trying to find the best chain of spells, when and where to best utilize some spell/skills people normally overlook.. All this leading up to maybe building a rep for yourself as an "awesome" dps / healer / tank / puller whatever.. This is all good and very rewarding in my book...
But then you have pvp.. I dont care how many excuses people come up with, and depending on the games mechanics of course some are affected more then others.. The skill people speak of is in a nutshell who can smash their spacebar the most and keep the character facing the other guy smashing his spacebar as fast as humanly possible..
1: It looks rediculous.. Talk about an immersion breaking way to play. So much for duels its like battle of the speed freaks..
2: It really takes gear / knowledge of the game out of play... the only skill IS jumping/spinning/targeting..
3: As an older gamer who remembers early PvP in Ultima online (where jumping wasnt even an option, sure there was always UOX, you could outrun people, but the majority had to stand and fight..) it makes me just not even take a game seriously anymore.
I would love to become an avid PvPer.. and if there is a game that exist that has found a way to overcome this disability.. please let me know.. I dream of a day when you /duel someone, your characters were immobilized, with some dramatic camera effects ( think the new street fighter), and a timer counted down and the figtht was all about skill timing, and countering 1 skills effect with another.. and managing your cooldowns.. THEN I will become totally into PvP again..
Until then I will continue to be a "noob" and enjoy my PvE content.. where atleast the "deranged rabid mountain bear" has the confidence in his abilities to go toe-to-toe with me
Ah the PvP love/hate. I really see PvP as an entirely seperate game from the PvE content. Hotbars, tactics, and player decision/skill takes a complete 180 crossing over into PvP. I love it a lot, but I'm no where near the best. I just find it a fun distraction and great way to grow closer with the guild or group you're playing with. Thus I never solo pvp.
I am pretty much the best player in the world. The only reasons I've ever died are:
- My healers suck
- Enemy healers suck
- Blizzard love (whatever faction I'm not playing)
- Blizzard hates (whatever class I'm playing)
- Lag
- Hacks
- Cheapness (oh yes! Cheapness. Never can a scrub not mention this wonderful, abstract concept)
------
Played - UO, FFXI, WAR, WoW, EVE
Currently - Bored.
pvp healing is good! come on! i actually love premades and decent pvp groups. not that im any good, but pvp and pvp servers gives abit of a thrill. yes, i hit the keyboard and scream sometimes, but im sure i made more people feel this way aswell
On DAoC wasn't so important your gear.
Vanilla game and first espansion: only Epic Armour (a fantastic quest to do part alone and part with other people, friends and/or guildmates). They changed with ToA, but till that expansion PvP (or, better, RvR) was only for fun without grinding.
My blog about (no more)MMORPG Addicted - a bog about videogames, cinema, politics and other things (in Italian)
Personally, PvP is the most important factor in any game I play, as I know that I can beat the computer in any PvE environment in any game, be it from exploiting the mechanics against itself or just learning the system and requirements in place to complete a specific area, I’m not saying PvE isn’t important or easy but I’ve always felt that it is an addition to the PvP.
Good balanced PvP is something that takes a lot more time, and it’s hard to find in many games, especially MMO’s, the current market seems to think that fast RvR or hot joining battlegrounds are what PvP is and should be, now these are fun, but in reality these end in being a numbers game or an un structured mess of what PvP should be, and can really be detrimental to a players intelligence and will definitely put certain players off PvP, even to the point of saying “I suck at PvP” where the case is that you haven’t really experienced balanced PvP.
To get good at PvP it takes time, effort & dedication (no different to PvE ), in well balanced games you not only need to learn the games combat mechanics and skills, you also need to consider the meta, other players tactics and types, the environments and tactics, once you have these, the highest level of competitive PvP will come down to how you can out think your enemy and adapt to changes in tactics during a game, and this is where it becomes real fun you're no longer playing against something static like the computer AI with set routines and procedures, everything becomes dynamic, nerves of steel, think fast, make decisions, and when you lose and you will lose, reflect on what you would do next time to win.
Of course there are cheats and exploits in games, and I shout HAXZOR a lot, but for the most part it’s just for fun.
Average 08/15 wannabe PvP random Guys of d00m. In what world are you guys living, cry for balance this; n' balance that; i'm so sick of that blasphemic behavior. There are 2 sorts of PvPers, the trash people and the r0xx0rs.
First of All, no game EVER has been "perfectly balanced" this is crapshit even in FP-MMORPG-PvP Focussed games like Darkfall you cant balance shit out alone for the reason that you cannot control the players Hardware, the Players ms response times nor the players fcking skills.
People that pwnz your mind hard, (those that you r flaming the whole time) r ppl that focus on being better then you instead of whining to get buffed/nerfed. You can play a rogue or ranger in nearly every game u'll be somewhat OP due to the mechanics, but on every game there are people who clearly dominate the meta, who dominate the field, this comes from nothing other then Skill. Maximizing your strengths and not equilizing your weaknesses, takeing every possible advantage with you, LoS Kiting and drawing out of view, knowing their survival tricks and what c/d's they have, blind-interupputing obvious skill reactions, and knowing when to back off. These are things 90% of the consumer cow base do not understand. You failz0rs ain't playing the games for the reasons we play it. It's a passion to max out everything, it's a competition against our own kind, everyone wants to be 1# not 2nd, we want OUR techniques and our builds to be fotm and to be taken out of the game from devs, as we also strive to show them Devs that they were complete idiots trying to sell "a fully balanced PvP Experience", we exploit every weakness in their minds, we think in ways that you cannot imaginate if you ain't one of that Kind.
And last thing: You do not learn PvP, or you got those Skills from the first time you touch it or you'll never get it.
Lol, funny guy, ive seen "r0xx0rs" trash people, so erm yeah, to itemise PvP'ers into 2 brackets could'nt be more wrong, PvP communities are diverse, you get all types of people and you can see it in there playstyles sometimes, and sometimes use it to your advantage. :P
Well that much is true, but you do get games with "good balance" that gets improved as games go on such as GW, thou you cant balance a numbers game which is all open world PvP, but thats not real PvP anyways, additionally it's down to players to control their hardware and game settings, end of story.
Errm yeah thats basically what i said, only one difference, you think that these are brandished under the term "Skill", now while this does hold true, its truth is only a tiny aspect, 10% of an overall players ability is something they have in their mind set and 10% is their natural physical ability.
Of course you learn PvP, especially for the physical and mental aspects and requirements of every new game, do you think someone plays a game for the first time and they are the best ? Just go and ask some pro's how much time they spend practicing the games they play, let alone team based games and the number of different opponents they play againts, additionally there are lots of tools out there that help gamers tone indvidual skills such as reflexes and targeting, its no different from someone learning to remember Pie to a gazzilion numbers, the mind is a powerfull thing.
You know, I actually don't mind losing every now and then in a match. It's those times where you are either completely caught off guard or are just out matched multiple times in a row when I have to step back and sigh. When I win though (depending on how I've been doing) I'll either cheer and pat myself on the back or just smile. I don't tend to blow up my ego balloon even when I'm on a winning streak.
Yes, yes, I'm good at making little green bars fill up, not making read ones go down.
Greetings,
PvP is the heart of any game. I have played and excelled in ever genre in PC gaming, especially Starship Combat. Succeeding in PvP takes the determination to overcome obstacles whether they are external or internal.
Quite frankly the largest problems that I have found in training people to be successful in PvP are their own internal limitations, so of which have been mentioned in this thread, cheese, cheapness etc. Some people do not have the Warrior mindset to win and to be focused on winning. Musashi said in A Book of Five Rings
"According to this Ichi (One) school, you can win with a long weapon, and yet you can also win with a short weapon. In sum, the Way of the Ichi (One) school is the spirit of winning, whatever the weapon and whatever its aspect"
Because games are played by some for entertainment purposes it is sometimes difficult to get people into the mindset of Winning is the Supreme. This is the first separation of classes of players in online competition. There is further separation based on talent, time availability and intelligence, but the base of the pillar will always be a mind focused on Victory.
Now I hear a familiar cry of "But Star*Dagger, I play to have fun, if I lose and learn something that is fine with me!!". I would respectfully submit that this attitude is wrongheaded and will never defeat a Warrior who is focused on Victory. In sum my response is "Winning is Fun, everything else is Losing".
This does not, of course, preclude a deep training regime where the Student learns the intricacies of his particular weapon, ship, forces etc. Musashi also said "The Way (of the Warrior) is through Training". One must train with singular focus, that focus being the acquisition of skills to emerge Victorious on the battlefield. A well prepared and well trained Student of the Way will defeat his less prepared adversaries, there is no luck involved. "Luck is the result of preparation so thorough that the Gods themselves salute you"
Practically this means the Student should go through a number of phases when deciding to embark upon Mastery of a Game. These phases take the student from novice to Elite (and perhaps beyond, to true Mastery). There is very little time to “mess around” since all these phases will take at least a year (assuming a 20 hour+ playweek) some games, such as EVE Online take much longer.
In conclusion, I would invite the PvP community to take stock of their own gameplay attitudes, are you ready to fight against someone who studies the strategies and tactics to defeat you? While it is easy to yell at your adversary, your time would be better spent asking the questions, and simply saying “gg” and then “Could you help me, I do not know how you did that”. Very often the best players will provide some help, and who knows you might find someone like me who loves to teach students the Way of the Warrior, as long as you understand that it entails effort.
Yours in One School Two Swords Plasma,
Star*Dagger
P.S. Here is the link to A Book of Five Rings, read it and apply it to the game you have a passion for, it will pay dividends for decades.
http://samuraiconsulting.ca/5rings/
So much of MMORPG PvP comes down to how you've planned and built your character, and I never plan my builds except in the vaguest non-numbers based way. So I naturally suck in PvP environments. That said, I can often hold my own on the rare occasion that I've accidentally made a PvPable character.
The only PvP where actual skill counts more than build is in FPS type games, though.
My best PvP experiences were all in WW2OL with my old squad. Stalking enemy tanks with satchel charges in half-captured cities, last-ditch defences against impossible odds, glider assaults on enemy forward bases in preparation for big offensives, paradrops behind enemy lines, sneaking into enemy held towns to take down those AT guns that kept our armour held up. So much more fun than getting ganked by stealthers 20 levels higher than you. Even losing in WW2OL was fun as long as you made it expensive for the enemy.
Greetings,
Your post is indicative of a very popular, but essentially incorrect viewpoint. You admit that preparation is vital, but in the same sentence you discount it importance in practice.
If you believe something is important and then do not do it, and then lose because of it, you are, in fact, supporting my thesis, albeit in a negative way.
In the 2nd paragraph you say that skill only matters in FPS games. I, and other Fleet Commanders in EVE (and other MMOs) would strongly disagree with this point of view. The execution of a well prepared (and flexible) plan is as important, and maybe more so then the plan.
In the 3rd paragraph you seem to weld two very different regimes together, chaotic attacking and focused planning. It seems that you most fun moments come not from chaos but from the application of ancient precepts of warfare.
Additionally, losing is never fun, it is simply Losing. Ponder this deeply.
Yours in Planned Strategic Plasma,
Star*Dagger