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Can a Aimed based combat MMORPG, have the same interesting skill/spell/ability design that Tab targe
MMOExposed
Member RarePosts: 7,400
Can a Aimed based combat MMORPG, have the same interesting skill/spell/ability design that Tab targeting combat systems have?
Here are some list of tab targeting skills/spells/abilities/whatever you call it in the game.
can you have these interesting abilities in a aim based MMORPG?
If so, which MMO has done it?
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Comments
The fallacy with this thought is that you assume that they're interesting.
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yeah the correct term should have been "more complex"
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
First thing that came to my mind was the system Mass Effect/ME2 used with the third person shooter combat mixed in with the powers like singularity, adrenaline rush, incinerate etc. So I assume it can be done in an MMO.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Metallica8589/videos?view=0
Short answer.. NO..
in the few games that have tried.. its turned out fairly rubbish.. and aim based wow... just.. no.. can't think of anything positive that might be obtained by it.... certainly i wouldnt even consider a game that tried to implement that kind of thing.. i wouldnt even call it 'adding complexity' instead if would be just make it 'unwieldy' it would be hard enough trying to find the icon for the spell you wanted to use, and.. keep a moving target aimed at.. recipe for frustration is about the only thing that could come of that..
in ME its not aim based, and the game is paused while you do it... not something i can see happening in an MMO..
Why not? Darkfall has spells and abilities like any other MMO that you have to aim. Granted there is no legitmate crowd control, but with the "phsysics" in the game you can make them yourself.
I would love to see a feature like this in an MMO. I'm so tired of click and wait. Not to mention how fun using a bow would be.
With spells though, yes, Mass Effect-life physics could work well, not really an auto target, but kind of like it's helping you with it. I think of Oblivion too, though, how horrible aiming target spells was, but that could be fixed. Also imagine 'burst' spells, like, close range aoe, or such. It could be doable, but would require thinking.
ME does not pause while you do it, you can bind your skills to certain buttons. I think the only reason it paused so you had the selection screen for skills is because in order to make the game work with a controller for the consoles, they couldn't make them all available at once. However, on a keyboard, you would have them all at the push of a button, no need to pause.
It's starting to go beyond Wanted into Needed to actually bring in something really new and groundbreaking to the MMORPG genre.
If done right we might get a game that will set a new benchmark game that'll become massive and everyone will copy off of, like what happened with WoW but it won't be WoW and it won't go stale until years from now when we have, hopefully, grown out of being in this forum.
Black prophecy has an interesting systems.
U use skills by a combination of movement arrows(wasd) and after the combination is completel you do complex loops/manuveres that are very effective at avoiding fire compared to manual loops/moving around.
Thats the only game that i have seen some interesting skill ideas in mmofps
Thank you. I also figured that you could take whatever system you like and mold it to fit into an MMO. Some of the aim assisting you get with powers could be tweaked however you like it. It also comes down to what the OP means by aim based combat. ME still clearly has you aiming your gun and using it as the prime means of combat, with powers being more or less focused depending on class. If he is talking more about like Oblivion/Morrowind type combat where everything is integrated, then it really comes down to taste. ME, to me, is just a good hybrid of the two systems.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Metallica8589/videos?view=0
Several "aim based" MMORPGs over the years have had "interesting" abilities.
I think Neocron might have been one of the first, if not THE first.
This is how Tera does it (which is aim based). I don't think you will ever see a crazy amount of skills in a freeaim game like you will see in a tab-target game.
Skills & glyphs of every class (Priest is highlighted, nav the tabs for other classes)
http://www.nightside.fr/en/guides.html?class=Priest
Crystals (not all of them are listed)
http://www.gamerriot.com/forum/threads/enhancement-crystals.767/
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
If that was the case then DFO would be hugely popular.. and its not.. its not a new idea.. and if it was wanted.. then i think it would be mainstream by now, as it is.. players will always dictate which mechanics are chosen.. by voting with their wallets/time etc.. the games that have it are already out there, their not mainstream, and their likely to remain that way.. what dev is going to design a game using a mechanic they know is not going to be all that popular.. its a no brainer really..
Well...if we're talking twitch based FPS type aiming, sure you could make a game with interesting mechanics to go along with that. However, just like FPS games, you are also going to see the advent of aimbotting, and then you create the problem of those with superior "aim" having a distinct advantage. You also run into an issue with folks with higher pings running into issues with aiming and lag.
Also, what happens in situations when you have quite a number of folks in the same area. Do you cut the graphics down in the game to deal with the issue, or do you artificially limit the amount of players in a single area?
I personally would love to see more mmos use FPS style aiming and whatnot, but it also opens up a can of worms that wholly different than the issues we see in tab targeting games.
Ah, but remember, this is still going to be an rpg. How many times can you say you've seen enough people in one spot on an mmorpg outside of a city/battleground/raid? Even then, most of the time, those can all be instanced, and it works out perfectly fine. You could even have a non-combat mode, for just walking around and what not.
Really, the game could up the standards and demands on your system, but so what? Games will always do that.
I do see the problem in network lag though. Hmm..
The twitch mechanics are about the last thing that stopped Darkfall from becoming hugely popular. What scared most people off was the FFA full loot PvP and a few other things. The combat style was actually what even got the game any sort of attention & hype to begin with, but lots of issues at and close to launch + the PvP hindered them.
Everyone ive been friends and/or guildmates with across a lot of games would definitely prefer the twitch & aim style combat over the same old boring EQ/WoW style of combat with tab targeting and pressing the same rotation of skills over and over again to get things done. Its been done enough, and we have the technology to improve the system rathe rthan sticking with the same old same old from 10 years ago. One of the main reasons so many games have flopped since then is because theyre basically the same game with the same combat system just wrapped in a different skin. But if a highly polished twitch style game with the right types of features came along you can bet it would see much more success than games like Darkfall.
Dragon nest
Tera
And yeh it works and yeh its fun more fun than tab target.
? Sorry, but isn't that what Blizzard's 'Titan' MMO is supposed to be, an MMO that uses aim based mechanics?
So, if Blizzard can make it work successful, in the case that Firefall, Dust 514, Planetside 2 and Defiance won't... then that should dismantle your whole argument of that it's not popular, right?
New trends or genre influential changes don't become popular because everyone keeps doing the same thing. They become popular because some people tried a different direction and were successful in it, so successful that it became the new mainstream and 'to-have' feature set or mechanics.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
there is absolutly nothing interesting nor complex in tab targetted combat, its just boring "stand still and press 1 2 3 4 while eating pizza"
SOE would totally agree with you, it was the entire premise behind the NGE... aim based, special attacks that you need to aim and fire off.. and it bombed... players complained until they re-enabled tab targetting and auto attacks.. so that the 'aimed' combat was an option, not a requirement.. like i said.. its not a new idea.. .. but its invariably a bad one in the cases where it has been tried.. its just one of those concepts that seems like a really good idea.. until you try and put it into practice.. .. the only game your going to find this in, is an MMOFPS.. like planetside, and hopefully ... planetside 2
I would rather have a GREAT FPS type MMO with less abilties than ANY tab target MMO with many abilities. I whole heartingly support FPS control sandbox games and my biggest hope is for a AAA developer team to take up the banner and create the greatest FPS MMO we've ever seen.
The followings games such as Darkfall and Mortal Online had were so strong that I have no doubt if someone were to get the game right and COMPLETE for launch it would suck up all sandbox gamers AND those tired of tab target bullshit.
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And Firefall, Defiance, and possibly Blizzard's Titan.
It'd be interesting to see what you're going to say when it happens that Blizzard really would be going for aim based combat in their new MMO, especially since some of their people already have shown an interest in bringing the shooter model more into the MMO genre.
Oh, and TERA is aim based targeting as well (and I think Vindictus too?)
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
PlanetSIde Next is shaping up to be pretty good...
More complex compared to what? In a tab-targetting game all I'm doing is hitting hotkeys in a certain order. That doesn't seem that complex to me. I think having to actively dodge and aim would make it more complex. Or are you talking particle effects? I think the vortex attack from Infamous 2 is a very complex attack in that regard AND I have to aim it.
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"Chemistry: 'We do stuff in lab that would be a felony in your garage.'"
The most awesomest after school special T-shirt:
Front: UNO Chemistry Club
Back: /\OH --> Bad Decisions