A lot of things in this thread that I just can not agree with (and some that I can)
The number one thing I agree with is that EQ Next is SoE's redemption chance, not PS2.
And 1a is firing of Smedley would be the right move. There is way too much miscommunication with SoE, and I think a lot of it is because of internal reasons. *All* MMo companies go back on their promises, but I think sometimes at SoE one person doesnt know what the other person has planned.
Now some of the things that I see on other threads that I just can not agree with..
EQ1 didnt start to go downhill after Velious. In fact, if the AA system introduced in Luclin didnt come along the game wouldnt have had its longevity. Some design elements went away that should never have gone away, but the game didnt really start going downhill until its age fully caught up to it and it just had too much content trivialized. Somewhere around DoN/DoDH/TSS is where the quality clearly lessened. I would say GoD, but OoW was after it and very popular.
Also people forget a lot of the changes people didnt like that happened were customer requests, such as easier travel.
As for the whole cash shop thing, its industry standard now. Very few games dont have some sort of microtransactions. Saying you wont play any games with both subs and microtransactions I think leaves Rift as the only AAA option.
Finally, the whole expansion thing as an indicator that SoE is greedy. Huh? To make more content you need more staff and more monetary investment. yes, Im sure they make a profit off box sales, but it pales in comparison to monthly subs in the long run. Expansions are made primarily to keep people playing, not make a quick buck. I always feel cheated by Blizzard because they are so slow with new content and so high to recycle old content, yet they practically print money and could easily expand their staff and make additional content. After two years of Wotlk Cataclysm was just *tiny*. 5 moderately sized zones, 6 or 7 dungeons used as both leveling content AND max level content . Way smaller than TBC or Wotlk. Oh but they revamped 1-60. Fantastic, they should have not waited 6 years to add something different for anyone 1-60 as it is....*That* is what i call greedy, not what SoE does with expansions.
Sorry but I beg it differ. EQ 2 was quite different from EQ 1 apart from locale names and character class names. Nothing about it felt like "regurgitated" work from Brad Mcquaid. Using your same logic, I will take it a step further and say Dark Age of Camelot and World of Warcraft are also regurgitated/cannibalized from Brad's ideas. Such a notion is ridiculous.
Only in recent years has EQ 2 begun to more resemble EQ 1. This is because the player base was unhappy with the fact that it was not more like EQ 1.
If EQ 2 would have truly been regurgitated/cannibalized off of Brad's work, the game would have probably had a strong resemblence to Vanguard.
Again I'm not saying that EQ2 captured the features that made EQ a success. Mind you it isn't for their lack of trying as EQ2 is completely made up of elements created for the original EQ.
Sure some of the mechanics and systems are different, but the entire game tries to relive the glory years of EQ, but aimed towards what SOE thought casual gamers would want in EQ. The cities, the dungeons, the gods, the world zones, the items, races, etc. All of it is nothing more than taking something directly from the original game and chopping it up to fit into the EQ2 game engine. The "premier" quests in the game (legacy quests) do nothing more than focus on items from the original game that achieved renown on their own.
Hell, the expansion packs are either a direct 1 to 1 rip off of the original expansions or just a remake of a smaller portion of the original world like Plane of Sky.
If you ask an EQ player what made EQ great they could rattle on for hours about various things in the game that were memorable. I bet if you ask an EQ2 player the same question you would get answers that all trace back to things being great from EQ that were transplanted to EQ2.
Your comments about DAOC and WoW are a complete strawman attack and do not even resemble what I am saying.
Hell, the expansion packs are either a direct 1 to 1 rip off of the original expansions or just a remake of a smaller portion of the original world like Plane of Sky.
Well as a player of EQ 1 and EQ 2 for years again I am going to have to disagree with you on this one. Again only in recent years have they added expansions that resemble EQ 1 expansions. Looking at my bookshelf of EQ 1 expansions I can't really seem to find a "Desert of Flames" expansion or anything even remotely resembling it.
Obviously you have your own opinion and I respect that. So I am just going to agree to disagree with you.
Hell, the expansion packs are either a direct 1 to 1 rip off of the original expansions or just a remake of a smaller portion of the original world like Plane of Sky.
Well as a player of EQ 1 and EQ 2 for years again I am going to have to disagree with you on this one. Again only in recent years have they added expansions that resemble EQ 1 expansions. Looking at my bookshelf of EQ 1 expansions I can't really seem to find a "Desert of Flames" expansion or anything even remotely resembling it.
Obviously you have your own opinion and I respect that. So I am just going to agree to disagree with you.
I highlighted the second catagory of expansions that hit EQ2. Deserts of Flames was an expansion that took place in the Deserts of Ro from the original base Everquest game.
The point of all this was that EQ2 is SOEs biggest "success" since they formed as an entity to make online games and it does little more than reheat the original EQ game and try to serve it up casual style. EQ2 started out as a disappointment and everything since then has only gotten worse for SOE in rapid succession.
Can one game turn a company around, especially when they have been flying their true colors as recently as last week?
Hell, the expansion packs are either a direct 1 to 1 rip off of the original expansions or just a remake of a smaller portion of the original world like Plane of Sky.
Well as a player of EQ 1 and EQ 2 for years again I am going to have to disagree with you on this one. Again only in recent years have they added expansions that resemble EQ 1 expansions. Looking at my bookshelf of EQ 1 expansions I can't really seem to find a "Desert of Flames" expansion or anything even remotely resembling it.
Obviously you have your own opinion and I respect that. So I am just going to agree to disagree with you.
I highlighted the second catagory of expansions that hit EQ2. Deserts of Flames was an expansion that took place in the Deserts of Ro from the original base Everquest game.
The point of all this was that EQ2 is SOEs biggest "success" since they formed as an entity to make online games and it does little more than reheat the original EQ game and try to serve it up casual style. EQ2 started out as a disappointment and everything since then has only gotten worse for SOE in rapid succession.
Can one game turn a company around, especially when they have been flying their true colors as recently as last week?
Everquest 2 is a sequel to Everquest. Some sequels tend to have similar things such as land/cities/people/items in them. Could they have made Everquest 2 set in a completely different world with different lore? They could have. For me, however, Everquest is Norrath.
Not getting into the business aspect of SOE, just wanted to comment on the "canabalized" comment. Sorry if I misinterpreted ur comment, Daff.
I highlighted the second catagory of expansions that hit EQ2. Deserts of Flames was an expansion that took place in the Deserts of Ro from the original base Everquest game.
Everquest 2 is a sequel to Everquest. Some sequels tend to have similar things such as land/cities/people/items in them. Could they have made Everquest 2 set in a completely different world with different lore? They could have. For me, however, Everquest is Norrath.
Not getting into the business aspect of SOE, just wanted to comment on the "canabalized" comment. Sorry if I misinterpreted ur comment, Daff.
I agree. Everquest 2 is Norrath otherwise it would not be called Everquest. Which brings me back to your original comment Daffid011 - "EQ2 is at best a marginal decent game and it is entirely built on canabalizing the work of Brad McQuaid."
Again last I checked I did not see any expansion similar to Desert of Flames on the shelf that holds my EQ 1 expansions. Using a location from the world of Norrath is to be expected in a sequel. But to make the comment that EQ 2 was entirely built on canabalizing Brad Mcquaid's work is ridiculous.
I followed the development of EQ 2 closely pre launch and played both for years. EQ 2 felt a lot different to me then EQ 1 which is one of the things that I feel hurt it. Some things about the game was better. Like the faster paced combat for instance. But most of the player base was looking for more of a true succesor imho.
Ill give it a shot when it comes out. I can't hate on them for making mistakes even if it has been many lately lol. I know a lot of people that mess up constantly and I don't shun them
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand." - Lewis Thomas
I agree. Everquest 2 is Norrath otherwise it would not be called Everquest. Which brings me back to your original comment Daffid011 - "EQ2 is at best a marginal decent game and it is entirely built on canabalizing the work of Brad McQuaid."
Again last I checked I did not see any expansion similar to Desert of Flames on the shelf that holds my EQ 1 expansions. Using a location from the world of Norrath is to be expected in a sequel. But to make the comment that EQ 2 was entirely built on canabalizing Brad Mcquaid's work is ridiculous.
I followed the development of EQ 2 closely pre launch and played both for years. EQ 2 felt a lot different to me then EQ 1 which is one of the things that I feel hurt it. Some things about the game was better. Like the faster paced combat for instance. But most of the player base was looking for more of a true succesor imho.
I really don't think this point needs to be boiled down to a discussion of semantics. Did I mean every single aspect of EQ2 was a direct 1 for 1 rip off of EQ? No and I think it is clear enough already.
Does EQ2 try to be its own game or does it primarily do nothing but reheat the features that made EQ great? EQ has had 17 expansions that have taken the game to an equally new number of locations. EQ2 has had 7 expansions that have done nothing but rehash existing areas of the original game, even if the expansion has a different name on the box cover.
Ever wonder why EQ2 is spending over 8 years rehashing the first two years of Everquests content and has not tried to recreate the content of Luclin? Why they have not tried to make an expansion based on areas that are brand new? Just ask players what the best ear of EQ was and I think it will answer those questions.
Again the point that seems lost in all of this is that EQ2 is the best success SOE has ever created as a company and that success is largely dependant to the nostalgia of the original game.
Honestly SOE has been existing for a long time on the work done when before SOE was even created. After acquiring Everquest, what has SOE done in the last ten years that is really worthy of pointing out as some example of a company that produces amazing products or great games?
The best example of what SOE has ever produced was a disappointment in several senses. That is really the result of their very best effort. I can't think of something SOE has been involved in that has not been a massive failure or suffered significant and often steady decline.
When the question is asked if SOE can redeem itself I have to ask, redeem itself to what? The question poised in the original article is "The company has to prove that they’ve still got the chops to create a solid MMO experience." and I really don't think SOE has ever been at that level.
If SOE delivered a solid mmo that was polished and well tested it would honestly be a first in their history. It just isn't something that SOE is known for.
I have to say that SOE's best game was Planetside overall. The total failure to promote it was also one of their biggest failures. It was original, fun, forward thinking. It was pure PVP but with 3 distinct sides with different weapons and something more than just capture the flag.
To be honest I can't believe Smedley is still with SOE as he is probably the worst manager of games I have ever seen. As I mentioned before, SOE is responsable for the decline of EQ starting with Planes of Power. That one expansion completely changed EQ and killed most of the server community and immersion. They then took away server GM's and put the GM's on a rotation. This increased resolution times from minutes to days and customer service went out the window. EQ for me just went down hill form there and I played over 5 years!
Lets move to SWG - I BETA tested it. Every BETA tester screamed it was not ready when they released it. They didn't listen. The game released and was a total F'ing joke. Not ready and had no content to speak of. I played a CH and think god I quit before the NGE. I feel so sorry for those that took 2 years to build their toons only to have them completely changed or removed from the game. Not to mention that came shortly after an Expansion that was not free. They knew what changes were comming and still rolled out the expansion to get that money. Sad truely Sad.
EQ2 - Again I BETA tested it. Once again we screamed it was not ready. I had the number 3 to 9 Coercer on the server until I quit at 45 due to no raid content in the game and the massive nerfs they did to my class. My guild entered raid zones with NO MOBS.....WTF!
Vanguard - Brads new gem. Promised to be what everyone wanted which was a new EQ that had everything that was great and fixed stuff that was not. Brad swore that SOE would never have anything to do with Vanguard. He sold us out once before and promised to not do it again! Next thing we know SOE is onboard and Brad once again said that SOE would NEVER have anything to do with the games design. Short time later SOE owns Vanguard totally, all the Vanguard designers are called to the parking lot and fired on the spot. Brad didn't even bother to show up for this. Brad started another company in 2010 to design social/casual games. I guess he thinks people have forgot how he sold out out not only his customers but his deveopers as well. What a POS.
In a nutshell SOE is worthless in my mind and always will be.
I have high hopes for Planetside2 and I will play it because I really liked PS. I just hope they don't screw it up and actually improved upon PS. However the history of SOE is to make things worse rather than better so the odds in Vegas will be that PS2 is a total failure. Time will tell and even if it is a success I will still hate Smedley and Brad for what they have done to the games I loved in the past.
Theres a line in the sand. One side are those who are forgiving to SoE for their misteps because they still got years of gaming enjoyment from a particular game or games.
Then there are people like me on the other side who played a SoE game and got sorely dissapointed at their experience. I LOVE DC comics. I played DCUO beta and played it live and had a TON of fun. Then came the hackers and exploiters. I came from WoW where that crap wasn't tolerated and cheaters were weeded out (even if it was discreetly) and the developers or whatever moderated the forums and addressed player concerns. SoE protected cheaters (I.E. they would delete threads where evidence of cheating was posted and since they had no in game petition its all we had.) and wouldn't speak to the player base about outragous issues with the game. I'm sure other people have stories similar in other games, but that was my beef.
To me, SoE didn't support their gaming community. They took our money and didn't give a damn once they got paid. Fool me once shame on me, but ur not fooling me twice. To all you Loyal SoE-Ists on the other side of the line more power to you if you find enjoyment in their games. Just know your a minority.
SoulPlane 2: The Blackjacking is a American Movie Classic!
I still hold their IP, Planetside, above the rest of the crop, Dust 514, firefall, defiance, tribes universe, earthrise, world war 2 online, Mars war, Global Agenda, APB and the rest of the "So called" MMOFPS' that boil down to nothing more than a Cash shopped, Arena Base 16 v 16 lobby match product, which i dare say, SOME of the next so-called mmofps's will continue with their Cash shopped, Arena Base 16 v 16 lobby match product.
Try those games, and then try PS 1 to see a difference in formula and scale.
World War 2 Online really doesn't belong on that list. It still has the biggest seamless uninstanced world of any MMO of any sort, and the basic formula is more complex and involving than PS ever was.
I doubt that PS2 will be the make or break for SOE. Right now they are seen as an MMORPG company and they completely admit that PS2 is an MMOFPS.
What it can do is make them a major player in that industry and that can allow them to start growing as a force in the industry again.
The concerns about exploits will make or break PS2 depending on if some are found and how SOE deals with them. The PvP exploits in their RPG games justify the concerns.
What will make or break SOE will be EQIII. Their last two new MMORPGs were very disapointing.
Clone Wars Adventures is an interesting MMORPG and while it is deliberately targeting the adolescent crowed, it still falls short of keeping their attention for long.
DCUO is a fine game on the PS3 where it shines, but on the PC the attempt to maintain the same interface as the PS3 version makes it a very poor game experience. Then with the PvP exploits it is collapsing fast.
As long as John Smedly is @ SOE, then that company will be all about revenues... not player experiences.
People pay for player experiences, thus a nice revenue stream. John doesn't see it that way. He likes to overhype, sell boxes and fool players into subs until they figure it out.
John Smedley has been riding on Brad McQuaid's vision & expertese for 11 years. Who cares if Brad had a coke problem, at least he was a gamer and gave us gamers good games. All john does is please cry-babies and makes their games easier and more markable.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
Back in the day I never much got into shooters too much, and certainly didn't want one sticking its nose into my MMO's.
Since then I have played both Mass Effect games several times through and I am eagerly awaiting the third installment.
A Mass Effect MMO may be in the distant future.
I would now have more interest in this sort of game and may indeed give this PS2 a try out, if the cost of entry isnt too high.It may help scratch that itch I get when I think of a Mass Effect MMO.
Have a sense of humor, no need to get ALL MODDY ! A Simpson's quote shouldn't be worth a warning. You are lucky anyone is bothering to read this rag.
SOE is on life support. I will never, repeat NEVER, have faith in this company again.
Yes, I was one of those people burned from the NGE. MMOs are investments. I can't speak for everyone, but when I pay money into an MMO, I'm not paying for time I've already played... I'm paying for the time in the future. SOE screwed the pooch with the NGE.
After that, EQ2 was a total cluster-f*ck out the door. They had to overhaul that game a couple times, too. Yes, I agree it's underrated. It's an "OKAY" game, for what it is. But EQ2 has been watered down so often and to such a degree that it's really pointless playing it.
Free Realms was $50 Million down the tube. There were a lot of layoffs around that game's first anniversary.
The Agency was a burial procession. Thanks to mismanagement and a company full of tards who would rather goof off than do their work, SOE ends up laying off 200+ Full Time employees, and then another 200+ contract employees that they don't even mention in their public statements.
DCUO was all hype, no delivery. A beautifully rich IP which could have turned into a monumental success. Instead it was a watered down, weak, gpu-intensive City of Heroes clone with a horribly unintuitive UI.
Now, we have PS2 and EQNext on the table?
Planetside 2 will top 50k subscribers... if they're lucky. The people who want a decent FPS MMO experience will probably be smart and head to Dust 514.
EQ Next will bomb, plain and simple.
My prediction is: SOE releases amazing subscription/sales numbers within the first 2-3 months of these games being out.... Then, nothing.
John Smedley, Bruce Ferguson, Russell Shanks... They should all be fired and never allowed to work in the industry again.
No game could ever make or break SOE. For one, their problem has never really been about the games they produce. It's primarily been their shady business practices. I think the only way for people to really start trusting SOE again, would be for it to stop doing exceedingly shady things, and to start showing it actually views it's customers as anything other than cash cows.
That said, I have seen no indication that SOE has any plans of changing it's ways at any time in the near future. I'm probably going to be done with SOE products for a while, even though I do enjoy a lot of their games, and used to love the playstation (until the recent barrage of hacks, crappy updates, and cash grabs).
SOE is in a real catch 22 as far as their business practices go.
SOE is no longer in a position where it can run over its playerbase with annoying cash grabs and ignore their protests. They need every single subscriber they have and need to attract and retain new players. .
However SOE is not longer in a financial position to make those types of changes. SOE has been downsizing for the last 3 years with a massive downsize just a few months ago. All of their mmos are in rapid decline or in a terminal condition. They have over a dozen online games to support, 2-3 large projects in development and a drastically shrinking customer base. SOE is no longer in a position to stop trying to reach into players wallets with cash grabs, cash shop content and anything else they can come up with.
DCU was supposed to be a huge hit for SOE, but it has tanked horribly. There is nothing coming within the next year+ to revive SOE. The only way for SOE to make additional money and minimize their losses is to tax their existing playerbase.
Just watch how many times over the next year SOE tries to reach into their players wallets with payment up front offers, cash shop additions, special items and anything else they can manage to sell.
My prediction is: SOE releases amazing subscription/sales numbers within the first 2-3 months of these games being out.... Then, nothing.
The Irony is this could be said of every MMO that has come out since December 2004. Large box sales, good sub numbers and usually by month 12(or sooner)... server mergers. It happened prior to "november 2004" as well but it was not the industry "norm" back then. While I personally think it is the norm now.
I think it will continue to be the "norm" until we start to get some variety of design. Which is the only thing that might make PS2 successful is its not the common MMO... *big* success certainly is not what I would expect.
So I agree with you.. its just as I said.. I think your statement is pretty much true industry wide at the moment.
My prediction is: SOE releases amazing subscription/sales numbers within the first 2-3 months of these games being out.... Then, nothing.
The Irony is this could be said of every MMO that has come out since December 2004.
Actually there are only a few few exceptions to that and unsurprisingly those few games have been the few games that have been cited for solid gameplay and polish at release.
I agree with most of what you said aside from this small point. Overall I would say that the market has been flooded with incomplete rushed untested games since 2004 as companies sucumb to gold fever or fail to reign in their ambitions in game design.
Comments
A lot of things in this thread that I just can not agree with (and some that I can)
The number one thing I agree with is that EQ Next is SoE's redemption chance, not PS2.
And 1a is firing of Smedley would be the right move. There is way too much miscommunication with SoE, and I think a lot of it is because of internal reasons. *All* MMo companies go back on their promises, but I think sometimes at SoE one person doesnt know what the other person has planned.
Now some of the things that I see on other threads that I just can not agree with..
EQ1 didnt start to go downhill after Velious. In fact, if the AA system introduced in Luclin didnt come along the game wouldnt have had its longevity. Some design elements went away that should never have gone away, but the game didnt really start going downhill until its age fully caught up to it and it just had too much content trivialized. Somewhere around DoN/DoDH/TSS is where the quality clearly lessened. I would say GoD, but OoW was after it and very popular.
Also people forget a lot of the changes people didnt like that happened were customer requests, such as easier travel.
As for the whole cash shop thing, its industry standard now. Very few games dont have some sort of microtransactions. Saying you wont play any games with both subs and microtransactions I think leaves Rift as the only AAA option.
Finally, the whole expansion thing as an indicator that SoE is greedy. Huh? To make more content you need more staff and more monetary investment. yes, Im sure they make a profit off box sales, but it pales in comparison to monthly subs in the long run. Expansions are made primarily to keep people playing, not make a quick buck. I always feel cheated by Blizzard because they are so slow with new content and so high to recycle old content, yet they practically print money and could easily expand their staff and make additional content. After two years of Wotlk Cataclysm was just *tiny*. 5 moderately sized zones, 6 or 7 dungeons used as both leveling content AND max level content . Way smaller than TBC or Wotlk. Oh but they revamped 1-60. Fantastic, they should have not waited 6 years to add something different for anyone 1-60 as it is....*That* is what i call greedy, not what SoE does with expansions.
Again I'm not saying that EQ2 captured the features that made EQ a success. Mind you it isn't for their lack of trying as EQ2 is completely made up of elements created for the original EQ.
Sure some of the mechanics and systems are different, but the entire game tries to relive the glory years of EQ, but aimed towards what SOE thought casual gamers would want in EQ. The cities, the dungeons, the gods, the world zones, the items, races, etc. All of it is nothing more than taking something directly from the original game and chopping it up to fit into the EQ2 game engine. The "premier" quests in the game (legacy quests) do nothing more than focus on items from the original game that achieved renown on their own.
Hell, the expansion packs are either a direct 1 to 1 rip off of the original expansions or just a remake of a smaller portion of the original world like Plane of Sky.
If you ask an EQ player what made EQ great they could rattle on for hours about various things in the game that were memorable. I bet if you ask an EQ2 player the same question you would get answers that all trace back to things being great from EQ that were transplanted to EQ2.
Your comments about DAOC and WoW are a complete strawman attack and do not even resemble what I am saying.
Well as a player of EQ 1 and EQ 2 for years again I am going to have to disagree with you on this one. Again only in recent years have they added expansions that resemble EQ 1 expansions. Looking at my bookshelf of EQ 1 expansions I can't really seem to find a "Desert of Flames" expansion or anything even remotely resembling it.
Obviously you have your own opinion and I respect that. So I am just going to agree to disagree with you.
I highlighted the second catagory of expansions that hit EQ2. Deserts of Flames was an expansion that took place in the Deserts of Ro from the original base Everquest game.
The point of all this was that EQ2 is SOEs biggest "success" since they formed as an entity to make online games and it does little more than reheat the original EQ game and try to serve it up casual style. EQ2 started out as a disappointment and everything since then has only gotten worse for SOE in rapid succession.
Can one game turn a company around, especially when they have been flying their true colors as recently as last week?
Everquest 2 is a sequel to Everquest. Some sequels tend to have similar things such as land/cities/people/items in them. Could they have made Everquest 2 set in a completely different world with different lore? They could have. For me, however, Everquest is Norrath.
Not getting into the business aspect of SOE, just wanted to comment on the "canabalized" comment. Sorry if I misinterpreted ur comment, Daff.
I agree. Everquest 2 is Norrath otherwise it would not be called Everquest. Which brings me back to your original comment Daffid011 - "EQ2 is at best a marginal decent game and it is entirely built on canabalizing the work of Brad McQuaid."
Again last I checked I did not see any expansion similar to Desert of Flames on the shelf that holds my EQ 1 expansions. Using a location from the world of Norrath is to be expected in a sequel. But to make the comment that EQ 2 was entirely built on canabalizing Brad Mcquaid's work is ridiculous.
I followed the development of EQ 2 closely pre launch and played both for years. EQ 2 felt a lot different to me then EQ 1 which is one of the things that I feel hurt it. Some things about the game was better. Like the faster paced combat for instance. But most of the player base was looking for more of a true succesor imho.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
I really don't think this point needs to be boiled down to a discussion of semantics. Did I mean every single aspect of EQ2 was a direct 1 for 1 rip off of EQ? No and I think it is clear enough already.
Does EQ2 try to be its own game or does it primarily do nothing but reheat the features that made EQ great? EQ has had 17 expansions that have taken the game to an equally new number of locations. EQ2 has had 7 expansions that have done nothing but rehash existing areas of the original game, even if the expansion has a different name on the box cover.
Ever wonder why EQ2 is spending over 8 years rehashing the first two years of Everquests content and has not tried to recreate the content of Luclin? Why they have not tried to make an expansion based on areas that are brand new? Just ask players what the best ear of EQ was and I think it will answer those questions.
Again the point that seems lost in all of this is that EQ2 is the best success SOE has ever created as a company and that success is largely dependant to the nostalgia of the original game.
Honestly SOE has been existing for a long time on the work done when before SOE was even created. After acquiring Everquest, what has SOE done in the last ten years that is really worthy of pointing out as some example of a company that produces amazing products or great games?
The best example of what SOE has ever produced was a disappointment in several senses. That is really the result of their very best effort. I can't think of something SOE has been involved in that has not been a massive failure or suffered significant and often steady decline.
When the question is asked if SOE can redeem itself I have to ask, redeem itself to what? The question poised in the original article is "The company has to prove that they’ve still got the chops to create a solid MMO experience." and I really don't think SOE has ever been at that level.
If SOE delivered a solid mmo that was polished and well tested it would honestly be a first in their history. It just isn't something that SOE is known for.
I have to say that SOE's best game was Planetside overall. The total failure to promote it was also one of their biggest failures. It was original, fun, forward thinking. It was pure PVP but with 3 distinct sides with different weapons and something more than just capture the flag.
To be honest I can't believe Smedley is still with SOE as he is probably the worst manager of games I have ever seen. As I mentioned before, SOE is responsable for the decline of EQ starting with Planes of Power. That one expansion completely changed EQ and killed most of the server community and immersion. They then took away server GM's and put the GM's on a rotation. This increased resolution times from minutes to days and customer service went out the window. EQ for me just went down hill form there and I played over 5 years!
Lets move to SWG - I BETA tested it. Every BETA tester screamed it was not ready when they released it. They didn't listen. The game released and was a total F'ing joke. Not ready and had no content to speak of. I played a CH and think god I quit before the NGE. I feel so sorry for those that took 2 years to build their toons only to have them completely changed or removed from the game. Not to mention that came shortly after an Expansion that was not free. They knew what changes were comming and still rolled out the expansion to get that money. Sad truely Sad.
EQ2 - Again I BETA tested it. Once again we screamed it was not ready. I had the number 3 to 9 Coercer on the server until I quit at 45 due to no raid content in the game and the massive nerfs they did to my class. My guild entered raid zones with NO MOBS.....WTF!
Vanguard - Brads new gem. Promised to be what everyone wanted which was a new EQ that had everything that was great and fixed stuff that was not. Brad swore that SOE would never have anything to do with Vanguard. He sold us out once before and promised to not do it again! Next thing we know SOE is onboard and Brad once again said that SOE would NEVER have anything to do with the games design. Short time later SOE owns Vanguard totally, all the Vanguard designers are called to the parking lot and fired on the spot. Brad didn't even bother to show up for this. Brad started another company in 2010 to design social/casual games. I guess he thinks people have forgot how he sold out out not only his customers but his deveopers as well. What a POS.
In a nutshell SOE is worthless in my mind and always will be.
I have high hopes for Planetside2 and I will play it because I really liked PS. I just hope they don't screw it up and actually improved upon PS. However the history of SOE is to make things worse rather than better so the odds in Vegas will be that PS2 is a total failure. Time will tell and even if it is a success I will still hate Smedley and Brad for what they have done to the games I loved in the past.
Theres a line in the sand. One side are those who are forgiving to SoE for their misteps because they still got years of gaming enjoyment from a particular game or games.
Then there are people like me on the other side who played a SoE game and got sorely dissapointed at their experience. I LOVE DC comics. I played DCUO beta and played it live and had a TON of fun. Then came the hackers and exploiters. I came from WoW where that crap wasn't tolerated and cheaters were weeded out (even if it was discreetly) and the developers or whatever moderated the forums and addressed player concerns. SoE protected cheaters (I.E. they would delete threads where evidence of cheating was posted and since they had no in game petition its all we had.) and wouldn't speak to the player base about outragous issues with the game. I'm sure other people have stories similar in other games, but that was my beef.
To me, SoE didn't support their gaming community. They took our money and didn't give a damn once they got paid. Fool me once shame on me, but ur not fooling me twice. To all you Loyal SoE-Ists on the other side of the line more power to you if you find enjoyment in their games. Just know your a minority.
SoulPlane 2: The Blackjacking is a American Movie Classic!
World War 2 Online really doesn't belong on that list. It still has the biggest seamless uninstanced world of any MMO of any sort, and the basic formula is more complex and involving than PS ever was.
I doubt that PS2 will be the make or break for SOE. Right now they are seen as an MMORPG company and they completely admit that PS2 is an MMOFPS.
What it can do is make them a major player in that industry and that can allow them to start growing as a force in the industry again.
The concerns about exploits will make or break PS2 depending on if some are found and how SOE deals with them. The PvP exploits in their RPG games justify the concerns.
What will make or break SOE will be EQIII. Their last two new MMORPGs were very disapointing.
Clone Wars Adventures is an interesting MMORPG and while it is deliberately targeting the adolescent crowed, it still falls short of keeping their attention for long.
DCUO is a fine game on the PS3 where it shines, but on the PC the attempt to maintain the same interface as the PS3 version makes it a very poor game experience. Then with the PvP exploits it is collapsing fast.
As long as John Smedly is @ SOE, then that company will be all about revenues... not player experiences.
People pay for player experiences, thus a nice revenue stream. John doesn't see it that way. He likes to overhype, sell boxes and fool players into subs until they figure it out.
John Smedley has been riding on Brad McQuaid's vision & expertese for 11 years. Who cares if Brad had a coke problem, at least he was a gamer and gave us gamers good games. All john does is please cry-babies and makes their games easier and more markable.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
Back in the day I never much got into shooters too much, and certainly didn't want one sticking its nose into my MMO's.
Since then I have played both Mass Effect games several times through and I am eagerly awaiting the third installment.
A Mass Effect MMO may be in the distant future.
I would now have more interest in this sort of game and may indeed give this PS2 a try out, if the cost of entry isnt too high.It may help scratch that itch I get when I think of a Mass Effect MMO.
Have a sense of humor, no need to get ALL MODDY !
A Simpson's quote shouldn't be worth a warning. You are lucky anyone is bothering to read this rag.
SOE is on life support. I will never, repeat NEVER, have faith in this company again.
Yes, I was one of those people burned from the NGE. MMOs are investments. I can't speak for everyone, but when I pay money into an MMO, I'm not paying for time I've already played... I'm paying for the time in the future. SOE screwed the pooch with the NGE.
After that, EQ2 was a total cluster-f*ck out the door. They had to overhaul that game a couple times, too. Yes, I agree it's underrated. It's an "OKAY" game, for what it is. But EQ2 has been watered down so often and to such a degree that it's really pointless playing it.
Free Realms was $50 Million down the tube. There were a lot of layoffs around that game's first anniversary.
The Agency was a burial procession. Thanks to mismanagement and a company full of tards who would rather goof off than do their work, SOE ends up laying off 200+ Full Time employees, and then another 200+ contract employees that they don't even mention in their public statements.
DCUO was all hype, no delivery. A beautifully rich IP which could have turned into a monumental success. Instead it was a watered down, weak, gpu-intensive City of Heroes clone with a horribly unintuitive UI.
Now, we have PS2 and EQNext on the table?
Planetside 2 will top 50k subscribers... if they're lucky. The people who want a decent FPS MMO experience will probably be smart and head to Dust 514.
EQ Next will bomb, plain and simple.
My prediction is: SOE releases amazing subscription/sales numbers within the first 2-3 months of these games being out.... Then, nothing.
John Smedley, Bruce Ferguson, Russell Shanks... They should all be fired and never allowed to work in the industry again.
No game could ever make or break SOE. For one, their problem has never really been about the games they produce. It's primarily been their shady business practices. I think the only way for people to really start trusting SOE again, would be for it to stop doing exceedingly shady things, and to start showing it actually views it's customers as anything other than cash cows.
That said, I have seen no indication that SOE has any plans of changing it's ways at any time in the near future. I'm probably going to be done with SOE products for a while, even though I do enjoy a lot of their games, and used to love the playstation (until the recent barrage of hacks, crappy updates, and cash grabs).
SOE is in a real catch 22 as far as their business practices go.
SOE is no longer in a position where it can run over its playerbase with annoying cash grabs and ignore their protests. They need every single subscriber they have and need to attract and retain new players. .
However SOE is not longer in a financial position to make those types of changes. SOE has been downsizing for the last 3 years with a massive downsize just a few months ago. All of their mmos are in rapid decline or in a terminal condition. They have over a dozen online games to support, 2-3 large projects in development and a drastically shrinking customer base. SOE is no longer in a position to stop trying to reach into players wallets with cash grabs, cash shop content and anything else they can come up with.
DCU was supposed to be a huge hit for SOE, but it has tanked horribly. There is nothing coming within the next year+ to revive SOE. The only way for SOE to make additional money and minimize their losses is to tax their existing playerbase.
Just watch how many times over the next year SOE tries to reach into their players wallets with payment up front offers, cash shop additions, special items and anything else they can manage to sell.
The Irony is this could be said of every MMO that has come out since December 2004. Large box sales, good sub numbers and usually by month 12(or sooner)... server mergers. It happened prior to "november 2004" as well but it was not the industry "norm" back then. While I personally think it is the norm now.
I think it will continue to be the "norm" until we start to get some variety of design. Which is the only thing that might make PS2 successful is its not the common MMO... *big* success certainly is not what I would expect.
So I agree with you.. its just as I said.. I think your statement is pretty much true industry wide at the moment.
Actually there are only a few few exceptions to that and unsurprisingly those few games have been the few games that have been cited for solid gameplay and polish at release.
I agree with most of what you said aside from this small point. Overall I would say that the market has been flooded with incomplete rushed untested games since 2004 as companies sucumb to gold fever or fail to reign in their ambitions in game design.