The primary issue I have with SWTOR is that it is so focused on telling a story that the game "ends" when the story does. WIthout decent sand-box mechanics, this is a theme park game that will just result in people making a few alts for the story arc, then moving on to the next MMO.
Plus, most everyone will know the stories of all the character arcs within the first month of live play. This game just seems to have a lot of box sales potential but not a lot of long-term gameplay potential.
Biggest whines that will emerge when game is launches on forums is how to skip all the story telling cutscenes, people will get bored fast and will be tired of all these story telling movies and cutscenes and rage quit becouse all downtime waiting for story beentold and loadscreens they wait for to all instanced they constantly enter:P
SWTOR= 80%cutscenes/movies and loadscreens+20%gameplay:D
The primary issue I have with SWTOR is that it is so focused on telling a story that the game "ends" when the story does. WIthout decent sand-box mechanics, this is a theme park game that will just result in people making a few alts for the story arc, then moving on to the next MMO.
Plus, most everyone will know the stories of all the character arcs within the first month of live play. This game just seems to have a lot of box sales potential but not a lot of long-term gameplay potential.
Biggest whines that will emerge when game is launches on forums is how to skip all the story telling cutscenes, people will get bored fast and will be tired of all these story telling movies and cutscenes and rage quit becouse all downtime waiting for story beentold and loadscreens they wait for to all instanced they constantly enter:P
SWTOR= 80%cutscenes/movies and loadscreens+20%gameplay:D
Bioware - develops - great - games. KoToR didn't bore me at all and I'm one who jumps through dialog fast. ToR is meant to give the "fans" the epic Star Wars experience (if you can forgive the cartoony animations). Bioware did a fascinating job with Kotor and I expect nothing less for ToR.
What is a MMO if not the world you are connecting to? Every single MMO is an artifical world that YOU the player are connecting to, and immersing yourself in through ROLE PLAYING. I dont understand the point of your statement in relation to what I posted.....I didnt say that the current format of Sandbox MMOs was the future....but that the freedom of Sandbox WITH IMPROVEMENTS was the future.
People seem to have this hardcoded belief of what a sandbox vs themepark is.....I dont understand why its so difficult for people to see that a sandbox world can have guided principles behind it, that help the player transition into the overall mechanics of the world they are connected to. Essentially providing "themepark" guiding principles into a sandbox where the player isnt FORCED through limitations of gameplay and freedom....whats so difficult to understand about that? You can have all your quests that guide you through the world, but why limit these quests to 1 direct path? why not open the questlines to limitless paths? why must end game be only about raiding? why cant there be multiple or endless facets of end game where the player can choose what they want? People are diverse no 2 people are the same in this world and no 2 people see eye to eye 100%....in a MMO you are the CHARACTER, the way you play the game is just as unique as you are, the way you wish to explore, progress, battle, craft, etc etc within an MMO world should encourage diversity, but also offer structure for those who need guidance.
In anything else you are just a rat in a maze, a maze that was created by the developer, there is 1 start point and 1 end point, so everyone eventually reaches the same exact conclusion....which is not what we are, we are not robots, we should not be dictated to play 1 way, to pvp 1 way, to progress 1 way, to craft 1 way, to raid 1 way....
I love this post because it really sums up how I feel about MMO's these days. However I think that a rat in a maze just doesn't do this subject justice. I would say it is more like a skinner box. Thats how I feel anyways.
Why is it so hard for some people to understand that a sandbox does not have to be this old fashion painful and boring experience? End game with out the sandbox becomes nothing but repetition. The never ending grind for better gear to kill harder mobs to get better gear..and on and on. The sandbox could offer so much more diversity and still offer the boring raid grind that so many people love. To be against the idea of a sandbox just does not make any sense to me at all.
Bioware - develops - great - games. KoToR didn't bore me at all and I'm one who jumps through dialog fast. ToR is meant to give the "fans" the epic Star Wars experience (if you can forgive the cartoony animations). Bioware did a fascinating job with Kotor and I expect nothing less for ToR.
Can I ask you one question and I am not asking to be an asshole or a troll but what do you plan on doing when the story part comes to an end? Thats the only problem I see with TOR. I believe the leveling will be awesome and will probably be the best of any MMO to date. However, when that is over and you are left with a WoW type raiding end game are you going to be ok with that?
With other Bioware games when the story ended so did the game. I really find it hard to compare KoToR or any other single player rpg with TOR.
I dislike this sort of sentement towards this game.
The whole, "Adding Story and full VO isn't revolutionizing anything, even though no MMO has had this on this scale" line of thinking is rather idiotic and is not help when these people go and praise, say, Guild Wars 2 about its combat but it does not have story anywhere near the scale of TOR( I suppose you really can't have much story in GW2 due to the DE replacing quest).
My question is, Is combat the only thing that you can change in an MMO to make it revolutionary?
Injecting a single play game experience isn't chaning anything on the MMO side. GW2's combat isn't the only thing that is chaning the MMOness, the dynamic events, the mist PvP, the PQs, the personal story lines, personal towns (not just housing), etc are what chaning the MMOness of GW2. TOR isn't chaning of the MMO standards in its game. Co-op story line isn't anything new, nor is the story telling (quest chains with different results)
What if the poeple who are playing WoW will switch to ToR! Sounds weird huh? But i hear all this WoW clone shit and it is true, but my question is so what? So many people still play WoW and what does that mean? It means that there is a huge amount of people that are willing to switch to ToR, its obvious bioware is trying to appeal players that play WoW because well.. its a "clone" right?
What if Bioware is trying to make a better and more in-depth version of WoW in order to appeal actual WoW players? I mean I'm kind of sick of all this revolutionary crap. Why does it need to change? And how the hell could it change? Guild wars 2 for example.. what is so revolutionary? Dynamic events.... a dodging system..... then what.... the game isnt revolved around gear... sweet so when I lvl to max i get my full tier 12 in 2 days that sounds great.
All I know is that I will switch from WoW to swtor not because im bored of WoW, but because it is god dam clone and its star wars. I dont know if bioware is intending to do this but if they are then it is sure working for some WoW players like me that don't like or need change in RPGs.
What if the poeple who are playing WoW will switch to ToR! Sounds weird huh? But i hear all this WoW clone shit and it is true, but my question is so what? So many people still play WoW and what does that mean? It means that there is a huge amount of people that are willing to switch to ToR, its obvious bioware is trying to appeal players that play WoW because well.. its a "clone" right?
What if Bioware is trying to make a better and more in-depth version of WoW in order to appeal actual WoW players? I mean I'm kind of sick of all this revolutionary crap. Why does it need to change? And how the hell could it change? Guild wars 2 for example.. what is so revolutionary? Dynamic events.... a dodging system..... then what.... the game isnt revolved around gear... sweet so when I lvl to max i get my full tier 12 in 2 days that sounds great.
All I know is that I will switch from WoW to swtor not because im bored of WoW, but because it is god dam clone and its star wars. I dont know if bioware is intending to do this but if they are then it is sure working for some WoW players like me that don't like or need change in RPGs.
But that's just the thing. People that are enjoying WoW have already put time and effort into their toons- why would they give that up in a game they aren't bored with? If they are bored of WoW why would they pay box + sub to do the same things all over again? This is a reason many players I know tried Rift and then went back to WoW- aside from the soul system there really wasn't anything else they couldn't already do and they already had leveled and geared toons ready to raid in that game.
People ask for change because right now a lot of the "choices" we have in MMORPGs are the same game with different graphics.
But that's just the thing. People that are enjoying WoW have already put time and effort into their toons- why would they give that up in a game they aren't bored with? If they are bored of WoW why would they pay box + sub to do the same things all over again? This is a reason many players I know tried Rift and then went back to WoW- aside from the soul system there really wasn't anything else they couldn't already do and they already had leveled and geared toons ready to raid in that game.
People ask for change because right now a lot of the "choices" we have in MMORPGs are the same game with different graphics.
Wow some people really need to read the disclaimer at the top of the article and understand the meaning of the phrase "devil's advocate".
Why exactly would they have to do that?
"Disclaimer: The Devil's Advocate is a place where the MMO-Loving world can go to hear the unpopular opinion"
In order for "The Devil's Advocate" to fit its own definition... the article would have to be entirely rewritten. Or the target audience of The Old Republic (as opposed to the article) would have to say the opinion of this article was not their own.
If the latter was the case then this game would not meet the premise of the article. As its written the article doesn't meet the premise of its own introduction (no matter how you look at it).
The general consensus on this site (popular opinion if you will), from the most vocal group, is that TOR is the same old crap, same old biring tried and true MMO formula and will do next to nothing. it will not change the industry at all because TOR is just WOW with lightsabers.
The author is being the devil's advocate here because he is countering that sentiment; the sentiment of negativity and hatred towards a game that has not even launched yet from a developed known for awesome titles and great games.
That is not the premise of the article or its own disclaimer. The "mmo loving world" is not defined by this website.
Wow, really? Can you show me a single site that does represent the whole mmo audience?
With all the innovation and talent that Bioware and Lucas Arts have available I am really surpised at the design they went for with space on rails for an MMO, yes that will change the industry into that crazy train requiring less development time and less budgets to have to request. Woot woot.
Haha! It's the "lame space shooter ruining MMO industry as a whole" slippery slope. That's awesome.
A de-emphasis on crafting, lack of customizable player housing, and rich storytelling are hardly revolutionary. Also, try proofreading your opening paragraph.
I've noticed that, recently, most of the articles here have been very badly written, with spelling mistakes, lack of proof-reading and even glaring internet vices ("there" instead of "their" when referring to possession, excessive use or lack of necessary apostrophes, etc).
MMORPG.com really needs to up the quality of its editors. And of its writers.
Yes, Azeroth has soul. the endgame direction since about halfway through BC has been pretty crappy, but that doesnt change the foundation the game was based on. Name a game, besides Everquest 1, that has a more interesting game world?
And the people who say the game has zero community probably aren't very good at making friends. The city trade chat channels may be abysmal, but its not very difficult to make friends and find people to do stuff with outside of guild.
The point you missed is that there isn't any reason to. You aren't forced to make friends to do raids or PvP anymore because they autmoated the entire game instead of fostering the creation of a community.
see orange
The fact you list SWG NGE as having an interesting game world shows that you have completely missed the point. Almost every planet in that game was a vast expanse of nothing interesting. Tatooine is going to look drab no matter what you do with it and putting a sarlac roughly the size of a pothole isnt helping matters, but Naboo at least has some wonder to it in the films, the SWG version is just so damned boring. Some of the adventure planets fare slightly better, as do the expansion planets, but the game world was one of the things SWG did wrong.
And you obviously dont play WoW with the other statement. Yes, you arent 'forced' to make friends. No game does this. Every single game in the history of MMOs that had PvP, allowed solo PvP so your argument there is pointless. raids? They are still formed the same way as in other MMOs. So your argument is 100% wrong there. groups, which you didnt mention, is the one you would have the argument for. The cross server thing is a bit odd, however with the new feature along you to queue with cross server friends, will socializing with these people inr andoms became a little more meaningful. You could also argue that int heory making it easier to get groups (which is the whole point of the system) encourages more socialization.
Its not Blizzards fault people don't want to socialize. hate the player, not the game, is oddly appropriate there.
I dislike this sort of sentement towards this game.
The whole, "Adding Story and full VO isn't revolutionizing anything, even though no MMO has had this on this scale" line of thinking is rather idiotic and is not help when these people go and praise, say, Guild Wars 2 about its combat but it does not have story anywhere near the scale of TOR( I suppose you really can't have much story in GW2 due to the DE replacing quest).
My question is, Is combat the only thing that you can change in an MMO to make it revolutionary?
Injecting a single play game experience isn't chaning anything on the MMO side. GW2's combat isn't the only thing that is chaning the MMOness, the dynamic events, the mist PvP, the PQs, the personal story lines, personal towns (not just housing), etc are what chaning the MMOness of GW2. TOR isn't chaning of the MMO standards in its game. Co-op story line isn't anything new, nor is the story telling (quest chains with different results)
Mist like PvP (DAOC) Personal Storys(As ToR will be out before Guild Wars 2), and Towns(SWG unless its like a personal house only instead of a house you get your own town and even then I don't see how that is revolutionary) have all been done in different MMOs.
The only unquie aspect to GW2 is the combat and DE(And even they are just a replacement to quest and has been done before by RIFT.).
Combat is not the only way you revolutionize a game.
Really? With all the glorious hate material available from ToR that's all you could muster? Flippin hell the original garrison at Helms Deep could handle dat shit bro. No casualties fo realz.
I maintain the feeling this game will not take the throne(no game will) and i maintain the feeling that's a good thing. Think about it; no king no gold standard for all things. Still going o be demigods but no solid over lord.
It is best for the industry the MMO throne remains an dusty empty seat never to be filled.
I bought the collectors edition so I hope this game is good. But I will say something... I'm sick to death of this theme park crap. I want a world I can live in, not one I play on.
The Sims is the biggest game franchise in history. All you do is customize, build, and craft. It is a casual game. I'd say casual players who want the ability to customize far outnumber everyone else. Sorry if that bursts everyones bubble.
Just as long as your not grinding, killing womp rats to level up or something silly. Or grinding missions which magically reset for everyone. Hopefully it's not all about stuff (Ooooh look, I got a level 6 Ton Ton mount).
Just as long as your not grinding, killing womp rats to level up or something silly. Or grinding missions which magically reset for everyone. Hopefully it's not all about stuff (Ooooh look, I got a level 6 Ton Ton mount).
Why do you have to pick on level 6 tonton mounts they are epic!
I can feel your anger. This game is defenseless. Take your weapon. Strike this game down with all of your hatred, and your journey towards towards the Dark Side will be complete.
It wont change the industry ... its warcraft in space with light sabers. I see very little that is revolutionary or industry changing if anything.
What's hilarious about the article is you define people that want player housing as hardcore ... lol ... no really, LOL ... what if anything is hardcore about arranging furniture? You also claim, as if you know ... that players that want player housing are a small percentage. How do you know this? More importantly The Sims begs to differ with you. Player housing is one of those things that the industry completely fails to innovate on because they are afraid to take a chance. A chance that I believe would revolutionize the industry .. or catch it back up with what it should be. Players love to customize their characters. Players pay 100s of dollars in otherwise F2P games so they can have a top hat ... or a fancy costume. Doesn't take a genius to see how that translates. Take a look at Vanguard. In a game that was struggling with subscriptions they had to open new areas for player housing becase all the old ones were full. With server mergers and a completely dwindled population this is relevant anymore, but at one time it was.
Again .. Star Wars is just Warcraft with Lightsabers. Will be worth the box price and maybe a month or two, but I doubt I will play it much longer than that. The second I see badge gear grinds and cross server LFDs for some sort of "hard" dungeon .. or anything that resemles that .. i'll know im done with the game. Rift was fun for a couple of months .. SWTOR has the capacity to possibly hold my interest for twice that time ... but to call it industry changing is just asinine. It's the same rehashed crap.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Comments
Obviously the devil is hyped for the game, so God must hate it?
Biggest whines that will emerge when game is launches on forums is how to skip all the story telling cutscenes, people will get bored fast and will be tired of all these story telling movies and cutscenes and rage quit becouse all downtime waiting for story beentold and loadscreens they wait for to all instanced they constantly enter:P
SWTOR= 80%cutscenes/movies and loadscreens+20%gameplay:D
Bioware - develops - great - games. KoToR didn't bore me at all and I'm one who jumps through dialog fast. ToR is meant to give the "fans" the epic Star Wars experience (if you can forgive the cartoony animations). Bioware did a fascinating job with Kotor and I expect nothing less for ToR.
I love this post because it really sums up how I feel about MMO's these days. However I think that a rat in a maze just doesn't do this subject justice. I would say it is more like a skinner box. Thats how I feel anyways.
Why is it so hard for some people to understand that a sandbox does not have to be this old fashion painful and boring experience? End game with out the sandbox becomes nothing but repetition. The never ending grind for better gear to kill harder mobs to get better gear..and on and on. The sandbox could offer so much more diversity and still offer the boring raid grind that so many people love. To be against the idea of a sandbox just does not make any sense to me at all.
Can I ask you one question and I am not asking to be an asshole or a troll but what do you plan on doing when the story part comes to an end? Thats the only problem I see with TOR. I believe the leveling will be awesome and will probably be the best of any MMO to date. However, when that is over and you are left with a WoW type raiding end game are you going to be ok with that?
With other Bioware games when the story ended so did the game. I really find it hard to compare KoToR or any other single player rpg with TOR.
Why he changed the title ?
"It has potential"
-Second most used phrase on existence
"It sucks"
-Most used phrase on existence
Injecting a single play game experience isn't chaning anything on the MMO side. GW2's combat isn't the only thing that is chaning the MMOness, the dynamic events, the mist PvP, the PQs, the personal story lines, personal towns (not just housing), etc are what chaning the MMOness of GW2. TOR isn't chaning of the MMO standards in its game. Co-op story line isn't anything new, nor is the story telling (quest chains with different results)
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
What if the poeple who are playing WoW will switch to ToR! Sounds weird huh? But i hear all this WoW clone shit and it is true, but my question is so what? So many people still play WoW and what does that mean? It means that there is a huge amount of people that are willing to switch to ToR, its obvious bioware is trying to appeal players that play WoW because well.. its a "clone" right?
What if Bioware is trying to make a better and more in-depth version of WoW in order to appeal actual WoW players? I mean I'm kind of sick of all this revolutionary crap. Why does it need to change? And how the hell could it change? Guild wars 2 for example.. what is so revolutionary? Dynamic events.... a dodging system..... then what.... the game isnt revolved around gear... sweet so when I lvl to max i get my full tier 12 in 2 days that sounds great.
All I know is that I will switch from WoW to swtor not because im bored of WoW, but because it is god dam clone and its star wars. I dont know if bioware is intending to do this but if they are then it is sure working for some WoW players like me that don't like or need change in RPGs.
But that's just the thing. People that are enjoying WoW have already put time and effort into their toons- why would they give that up in a game they aren't bored with? If they are bored of WoW why would they pay box + sub to do the same things all over again? This is a reason many players I know tried Rift and then went back to WoW- aside from the soul system there really wasn't anything else they couldn't already do and they already had leveled and geared toons ready to raid in that game.
People ask for change because right now a lot of the "choices" we have in MMORPGs are the same game with different graphics.
Yea thats true, I didn't think of that.
Haha! It's the "lame space shooter ruining MMO industry as a whole" slippery slope. That's awesome.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
It's been that way here forever.
The fact you list SWG NGE as having an interesting game world shows that you have completely missed the point. Almost every planet in that game was a vast expanse of nothing interesting. Tatooine is going to look drab no matter what you do with it and putting a sarlac roughly the size of a pothole isnt helping matters, but Naboo at least has some wonder to it in the films, the SWG version is just so damned boring. Some of the adventure planets fare slightly better, as do the expansion planets, but the game world was one of the things SWG did wrong.
And you obviously dont play WoW with the other statement. Yes, you arent 'forced' to make friends. No game does this. Every single game in the history of MMOs that had PvP, allowed solo PvP so your argument there is pointless. raids? They are still formed the same way as in other MMOs. So your argument is 100% wrong there. groups, which you didnt mention, is the one you would have the argument for. The cross server thing is a bit odd, however with the new feature along you to queue with cross server friends, will socializing with these people inr andoms became a little more meaningful. You could also argue that int heory making it easier to get groups (which is the whole point of the system) encourages more socialization.
Its not Blizzards fault people don't want to socialize. hate the player, not the game, is oddly appropriate there.
Mist like PvP (DAOC) Personal Storys(As ToR will be out before Guild Wars 2), and Towns(SWG unless its like a personal house only instead of a house you get your own town and even then I don't see how that is revolutionary) have all been done in different MMOs.
The only unquie aspect to GW2 is the combat and DE(And even they are just a replacement to quest and has been done before by RIFT.).
Combat is not the only way you revolutionize a game.
if this article would of said: "how to troll SW:ToR, I wonder how many people would still give drew shit?
I mean it is calles the closes thing to troll....devils advocate...just call me dad :-)
To the caterpillar it is the end of the world, to the master, it is a butterfly.
Wheanwhile, in a galaxy so far:
This game is not a WoW clone, is a SW:TOR clone, damn n00b
Seriosly: this game can strike out EA frome gaming industry, or an be done it the damn leader.
My blog about (no more)MMORPG Addicted - a bog about videogames, cinema, politics and other things (in Italian)
Wheanwhile = Meanwhile
My blog about (no more)MMORPG Addicted - a bog about videogames, cinema, politics and other things (in Italian)
Really? With all the glorious hate material available from ToR that's all you could muster? Flippin hell the original garrison at Helms Deep could handle dat shit bro. No casualties fo realz.
I maintain the feeling this game will not take the throne(no game will) and i maintain the feeling that's a good thing. Think about it; no king no gold standard for all things. Still going o be demigods but no solid over lord.
It is best for the industry the MMO throne remains an dusty empty seat never to be filled.
Sorry ...I am just not seeing or feeling what the author is claiming thus far from the available information on this game.
Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
I bought the collectors edition so I hope this game is good. But I will say something... I'm sick to death of this theme park crap. I want a world I can live in, not one I play on.
The Sims is the biggest game franchise in history. All you do is customize, build, and craft. It is a casual game. I'd say casual players who want the ability to customize far outnumber everyone else. Sorry if that bursts everyones bubble.
Just as long as your not grinding, killing womp rats to level up or something silly. Or grinding missions which magically reset for everyone. Hopefully it's not all about stuff (Ooooh look, I got a level 6 Ton Ton mount).
Why do you have to pick on level 6 tonton mounts they are epic!
I can feel your anger. This game is defenseless. Take your weapon. Strike this game down with all of your hatred, and your journey towards towards the Dark Side will be complete.
It wont change the industry ... its warcraft in space with light sabers. I see very little that is revolutionary or industry changing if anything.
What's hilarious about the article is you define people that want player housing as hardcore ... lol ... no really, LOL ... what if anything is hardcore about arranging furniture? You also claim, as if you know ... that players that want player housing are a small percentage. How do you know this? More importantly The Sims begs to differ with you. Player housing is one of those things that the industry completely fails to innovate on because they are afraid to take a chance. A chance that I believe would revolutionize the industry .. or catch it back up with what it should be. Players love to customize their characters. Players pay 100s of dollars in otherwise F2P games so they can have a top hat ... or a fancy costume. Doesn't take a genius to see how that translates. Take a look at Vanguard. In a game that was struggling with subscriptions they had to open new areas for player housing becase all the old ones were full. With server mergers and a completely dwindled population this is relevant anymore, but at one time it was.
Again .. Star Wars is just Warcraft with Lightsabers. Will be worth the box price and maybe a month or two, but I doubt I will play it much longer than that. The second I see badge gear grinds and cross server LFDs for some sort of "hard" dungeon .. or anything that resemles that .. i'll know im done with the game. Rift was fun for a couple of months .. SWTOR has the capacity to possibly hold my interest for twice that time ... but to call it industry changing is just asinine. It's the same rehashed crap.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already