Prefer Class Balance?

Menw · June 2005

Just wondering which of you D&D fans and non-fans alike prefer character class balance. Personally, I would love to see the game balanced out. It would definitely be something else if it is. What do you prefer?

Anofalye · June 2005

Class have their own balance in D&D. I hope they dont change it. ''Balance'' is evil. A wizard level 1 is the weakest character, but with luck, he can defeat a very strong opponent. A wizard 20 is incredible. A warrior is the strongest level 1 toon, but it never will be the strongest in the end, and it cant take on someone much stronger then him at level 1, unlike a wizard.

Sorontar · June 2005

D&D classes are not balanced individually as they are geared towards group play.

A low level fighter outshines the wizards but get to the middle levels and there is a shift that increases the wizards power.

Once you get to max levels the wizard far outstrips the fighter one on one.

Balancing one on one would make a new game and should not be attempted IMO.

Venger · June 2005

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The classes are balance to fill their role in a party. Your bard will never be able to compete with a paladin. If you can't handle that don't role a bard.

CactusmanX · June 2005

I for one am a fire believer that anyone can kill anybody, meaning regaurdless of class every character has the same potential to defeat any other character, around the same level mind you,

so yes a Bard could defeat a Paladin, or a high level mage could lose to a high level warrior, deeming such things as impossible is highly stereo typical, and extremly limiting to the player... heh but thats just me

Venger · June 2005

Well I wasn't actually speaking in absolute terms because just like real life there is no absolute guarantee just highly unlikely.

CactusmanX · June 2005

Oh sorry didn't mean you specifically but the people that make the DnD rule set

But from what I hear there is no PvP so really don't have to worry about anybody fighting anybody

Shurijo · June 2005

I think the balance points should be on the fun factor rather than the total offense = total defense factors between classes.

Also, like the other poster mentioned, a 1st lv wiz is much, much weaker than a 1st lv fighter. But... thats great! Because only the determined and strong wizards will become epic. Since the epic wizards are much, much, much more powerful than a fighter (the more powerful 1st lv class), it should be harder to reach (or at least more painful as in more deaths).

Venger · June 2005

Well even in a pve only world you will have for example bard players whining that they can rip thru mobs as fast as paladins.

Now don't get me wrong bards are fun to play I have played many different types in my pnp sessions but when it comes down to monster bashing they just don't stack up to the other classes. But where they excel is all around game play. They aren't the best at anything but they can hold their own in most things.

EliasThorne · June 2005

But the beauty of DDO should be that bards will actually be playable as they should have options to use thier skills and wont be penalised beacuse they didnt kill the mob, for exaple they could charm their way past the guard or nip over the wall rather than batter it with a pig sticker

wolfing · June 2005

I don't know why people say a lvl 1 wizard is much weaker than a lvl 1 fighter.

Fighter says 'ARGH! ME AM KILLIN YOU WEAKLIN IN ROBES!'

Wizard casts Charm person (lvl 1 spell) against the Fighter's low saving throw... Wizard wins

Wizard casts Sleep (lvl 1 spell) against the Fighter's low saving throw... Wizard wins

There really isn't a 'this class is more powerful than this other' in D&D, it's all about rolls.

Alalium · June 2005

I understand where you come from on that statment, though, I have to say it is not just the rolls....but the role as well....if you follow me on this one. Yes the rolls determine what the outcome is and there is a bit o' luck in them. Still, a 1st. lvl wizard is not stronger than a fighter, who is no more wiser than the cleric who is not near as sneaky as the rogue. Sure the rogue could sneak up and attack the wizard from behind and will most likely hit.....most likely.....hopefully the wizard is not harded with all kinds of *buffs* and then turns around to cast a fireball at him....which the rogue would most likely just roll his reflex save and only take half damage or none at all!

Of course then you would have that fighter there who could choke the life out of the wizard or the rogue and only the cleric can begin to *buff* up enough to take the fighter on and then heal himself afterwards if he survives the encounter....Of course this is all according to the rolls and....how well one plays the PC....but...that is just my 2 cents on the subject........

Keldros · June 2005

If every class is to have the same potential to defeat any other class, then why not just make one class available at all and be done with it! Balancing DDO classes in this way would be totally lame. It may have its place in other MMO's but not DnD. As has been said, the classes are balanced towards group play, and as this game is group oriented they should remain so.

Keldros · June 2005

If every class is to have the same potential to defeat any other class, then why not just make one class available at all and be done with it! Balancing DDO classes in this way would be totally lame. It may have its place in other MMO's but not DnD. As has been said, the classes are balanced towards group play, and as this game is group oriented they should remain so.

knightaudit · June 2005

If you were to take a lv 1 wizard and fight a lv 1 Figher. Based on max HP and Max damage. the wizard dies everytime.

The wizard (Just for fun) gets initiative and casts magic Missle, (1d4+1 Damage and no save) max damage to fighter is 5. Fighter has a D10 HD even with out a con bonus he has about 10 points.

So now the fighter goes up and attacks with his longsword (1D8 damage (I think)) If we still do max damage the wizard has now taked double is max HP (d4).

But at higher levels when the wizard can do things like time stop, wall of force and other nasty spells the fighter had better pray for not getting hit. Fighters are no good to any one if they can not get into melee where they belong.

The whole balance thing comes in when you all work together.

There is no I in team ....but you can get a me

spudboy926 · June 2005

As long as this game sticks as close to the P&P version of the game as possible, I'll be happy. ::::17::

Alalium · June 2005

That was my whole point to the posting of who is mightier than who.......balance of the TEAM is the key in D&D adventuring groups and I believe will be the key to DDO. Together as a team they are not..one stronger than the other.....but instead they become a deadly, well oiled machine when properly employed with someone/someones who can make some quick, tactical decisions under the stress of combat.

Yes, I know that one on one...there are a lot of things that could happen, like the example you gave above. Yet still, the balance is still there if played smartly. (who said the wizard even had to fight the fighter?

) LOL....Ok ok.....I will quit the Coup De Gras on this horse here. GAME ON!!!!!

corumanime · July 2005

Please dont try to balance the classes. That would ruin it all.

Also be aware that the usual way to balance them is to nerf the one that seems overpowered.

In SWG they nerfed the whole combat system and replaced it with one that feels like runny eggs to play.

In WoW, paladins were supposed to be the class that could out-last anything, and mages were supposed to be able to nuke anything at the cost of all their mana, then have to rest for a long time (like in any RPG). People whined that paladins were able to kill things, so paladins got nerfed. Then mages complained about the downtime between nuking things (?hello? try using all your spell points and waiting overnight to recover.. doh, 30 seconds downtime is nothing) and mages got buffed and dont even run out of mana now if they nuke.... but then... mages had to be nerfed because they had become too powerful... Just leave the classes DIFFERENT and leave them alone. A level 3 mage should kill a level 3 fighter if he has some range to start, but might then be low on spells and be killed by another level 1 fighter.. Thats normal. Leave it alone.

Tilden · July 2005

CLASS BALANCE is a MYTH. It doesn't exist, except in a one-class game. PERIOD.

Attempting to impose "class balance" is as stupid as believing item decay is a great idea.

Doomsayer · July 2005

I dont think the classes ability to slaughter mobs will be all that important in this game. Since, and I could be wrong, but I believe I read that ALL exp comes from finishing quests, not defeating individual mobs. There is no exp for individual encounters, only at the end of the quest. So how you finsih the quest won't matter.

So if you sneak by, or turn invis, or charm, or fight, or whatever your way to the end...doesnt matter. Just that you got to the end of the quest.

That being said, I don't see why class balance would be an issue.

Tilden · July 2005

Hell, I can't see why monsters are even an issue.

With no exp awards for monsters, why kill them? They're nothing more than graphic window-dressing.

As to balance, I'm sure the posters clamoring for balance are those that are more thinking of PvP. No matter what the game, you can find them demanding PvP and class balance. A game about superheroes fighting NPC evil? They want PvP. A game about non-violent farmers? They want PvP. A game about Lost in Space? They want PvP.

"My B-9 robot will pwn your Mrs Robinson..."

Frankly, I'm getting rather tired of the constant PvP, class balance, item decay and especially nerf crap that seems to ruin every game.

Machivelli · July 2005

I have to agree that "balance" is a myth. Choice is all that really matters, knowing that if I choose to role a mage, that I'll never be able to do certian things in a certian way. If you're comfortable with your choice then you shouldn't care what the other players are doing. If you're not comfortable with your choice, then role what ever class you think is better then you., the grass is greener on the other side right?

Anofalye · July 2005

Originally posted by wolfing

I don't know why people say a lvl 1 wizard is much weaker than a lvl 1 fighter.
Fighter says 'ARGH! ME AM KILLIN YOU WEAKLIN IN ROBES!'
Wizard casts Charm person (lvl 1 spell) against the Fighter's low saving throw... Wizard wins
Wizard casts Sleep (lvl 1 spell) against the Fighter's low saving throw... Wizard wins

There really isn't a 'this class is more powerful than this other' in D&D, it's all about rolls.

Well, you assume the wizard can cast(initiative roll, if the fighter win odd are the wizard is dead)...you also assume the warrior fail a saving throw...and you forget that the wizard after 2 spells is done for the day...especially that with sleep, odds are the wizard will fall asleep as well. Wizard is not in such a bad position, but having only 2 spells to complete a whole dungeon while the fighter always have his reach weapon with 20 of STR(so +7 damage)...yes a wizard level 1 may beat a strong opponent(charm for exemple) while a warrior is doubtfull to beat him...

You also assume the warrior is not a wood elf for the +2 str and dex...and great anti-sleep and charm bonus side aspects.

Yes a warrior level 1 is a LOT stronger then a wizard level 1...but at 20...it is reversed.

pizzaboy1332 · July 2005

whoah if u have class balance that means a wiz could take on a fighter at lvl 1 which all DnD players know that the wiz would get is but kicked

thats whats wonderfull bout DnD is that each class has its own advantages and disadvantages

pizzaboy1332 · July 2005

Originally posted by Anofalye

Originally posted by wolfing

I don't know why people say a lvl 1 wizard is much weaker than a lvl 1 fighter.
Fighter says 'ARGH! ME AM KILLIN YOU WEAKLIN IN ROBES!'
Wizard casts Charm person (lvl 1 spell) against the Fighter's low saving throw... Wizard wins
Wizard casts Sleep (lvl 1 spell) against the Fighter's low saving throw... Wizard wins

There really isn't a 'this class is more powerful than this other' in D&D, it's all about rolls.

Well, you assume the wizard can cast(initiative roll, if the fighter win odd are the wizard is dead)...you also assume the warrior fail a saving throw...and you forget that the wizard after 2 spells is done for the day...especially that with sleep, odds are the wizard will fall asleep as well. Wizard is not in such a bad position, but having only 2 spells to complete a whole dungeon while the fighter always have his reach weapon with 20 of STR(so +7 damage)...yes a wizard level 1 may beat a strong opponent(charm for exemple) while a warrior is doubtfull to beat him...

You also assume the warrior is not a wood elf for the +2 str and dex...and great anti-sleep and charm bonus side aspects.

Yes a warrior level 1 is a LOT stronger then a wizard level 1...but at 20...it is reversed.

that is soo true fighter gets better intiatives and just kill the wiz in one hit and cmon charm at lvl 1 wont stop a lvl 1 fighter lol

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