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Next Gen MMORPG.. Combat only, do you play to relax or play for a challenge?
Eronakis
Member UncommonPosts: 2,249
A guild mate in EQ was recently giving me feedback on my combat/class design mechanics. He mentioned he plays mmos to relax, not to work. In my current next gen mmo design, my mechanics are more challenging. Players would have to think about what they are doing at a more frequent rate as opposed to the current titles that are out. I have designed gameplay to be more of a challenge than mindless button smashing, there is actual strategy in at least half of the stuff you encounter.
So my question is this. Do you play an mmo to relax (don't have to think or stratagize in combat as often) or do you play an mmo for a challenge, to strategy and outwit a player or AI? Would you like to see more challenging gameplay that complements combat/class mechanics to strategize more often?
Another question I wouldn't mind getting some feedback on, is essentially do you feel as if a more challenging combat system would be something that could target a good amount of subscriptions? I understand that it will depend on what those combat/class mechanics are. But I am only asking in principle. I understand that SWOTOR and GW2 combat systems are not as linear as the current model where strategy may come into affect more often. What's everyones thoughts?
Comments
I play for a challenge, which is fun for me. If I get a headache or frustrated I can "relax" by laying down, taking a nap, reading a book, watching TV, or in the most extreme case take a vacation. MMO combat is anything but relaxing to me, no matter if it's challenging or simple hotkey pressing.
I don't know, maybe people can find a zen like relaxation in grinding MOBs over and over again, but I'd prefer challenging combat over the standard stuff we have now. I've been playing Catherine lately, which is far from easy and one of the most challenging games to date and I've found mostly completely engrossed in the game even losing track of time (unfortunately, that caused a problem) when playing it. It's kind of like relaxing because it makes me not worry about for a moment issues in real life just like a vacation would.
Lol, playing them is more stressful than making them for me :P But then I am an overachiever.
I'd rather have a game where combat is not the only thing there is to do. Unfortunately, for pretty much every game out there, combat is the only thing to do and still progress.
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Yeah I understand completely. That is not the only avenue to progress in my current design. Because my forte is combat/class design this concerned me the most at the moment.
I like the challenge of pvp, but I don't take it too serious. I'm not an Arena type player. Give me RvR of DAOC or BG's to kill time.
I want challenge. If I want to relax, there are a lot of things you can do to make things relaxy. Like...Crafting, gathering, chilling in social hubs, taking a nap, reading fanfiction involving Legolas and Gimli, etc etc.
I play combat games for a challenge. For a rush. If games start fading with the rush of quick thinking then I usually focus on something else. I aaalways used slightly boring combat as something to watch while I chat n stuff. Relaxing combat is for things like..RTS games on easy mode. Yknoe. You just sit there watching as the enemies run to their deaths.
When I want combat, I want a rush and a good challenge. It doesnt have to be too hard but it has to feel like Im being an active participant and have to control my character.
Since I know you do want tactical combat then I say stick to that and make relaxing content as something other than combat such as crafting and gathering. It would be better to condition your players so that when its combat, its going to be exciting and will give them in the mood that you want in how YOU enjoy your combat. If you really cant decide then I have to say...Rapid prototype ftw!
Games are like other forms of art. You can make the players feel whimsical, happy, content, special, or even make their hearts sink. What do you want people to get out of your game? And do you even want to change your combat? It looked peeerfectly fine before. A lil complex maybe but people will get the hang of it easilly after a quick intro or tutorial that lasts 10 or so minutes? >.<
As long as the basics are easy to get (and they were easy to understand) then itll be fine. There really wasnt anything THAT complicated or challenging about the design you putted up before!
*me votes dont change it*
But keep in mind, a lot of people tend to want challenge in PVP and relaxing(arguably easy) in PVE.
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To have fun.. Sometimes I like it a bit on the easy side. Others i like to try to take on things perhaps i needed back up for. Ethier way if im having fun i will keep on going.
Challenge.
But don't get me wrong. It does not mean I like overscripted raids where everything is so "tight" that one step by one player can wipe whole raid.
What is currently wrong is that mobs especially in open world are way to weak. They hit you and you take very low damage while you kill them by hitting them few times by any skill. So ultimately fight in open world is boring becasue you can just go agroo a few mobs and start clicking , pressing any skill and kill them. That is NOT relaxing , that is just boring.
So imo:
1.give mobs , especially those in open world more health and make them hit harder.
2. Limit classes. Too often nowadays , classes can do everything with one class beign able to fill 3-4 roles.
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Both.
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I like to have fun with a challenge. If a challenge isn't fun then I'm not interested.
Kinda depends on what you mean by "more challenging".
If it's responding quickly to mechanics; pressing a dodge button to get out the way of a mechanic, parrying an incoming attack or responding to a proc in a very small window of time, then that's all good stuff. I'd prefer combat to be more responsive/dynamic and less rotation based. Reflex based challenge would definately be a plus for me.
But if we're talking actual strategy .. such as having to lay down traps and prepare a battlefield prior to engaging an enemy then I would be far more "meh" about that. My ideal combat challenge is fast and furious. I'd rather be Conan than Sun Tzu.
Only if we dont have latency to deal with. I'm all up to this type of mechanic. Until then, chess-like combat for me. I like being tactical.
+1
You really should have a both option, and that is all the problem with mmos. They don't offer both, or you have some kiddy game with a wack a mole system, or you have hardcore system like raiding or simply hardcore game full of chore. Mmos should offer both in a smooth system. And ye don't put zillion hp and call it a challenge, they actually have to work the combat and ai right?
Nothing you do over and over in a video game should be "challenging" per se as common day-to-day activities become either too difficult and cause players to quit out of frustration or too time consuming and anoying also causing players to quit out of frustration. Seeing as you're in combat through 99.9% of your progression in an MMORPG, actually learning how to play your class should come relatively easily with minimal effort, but certain fights should be more challenging and require more coordination and skills than simply facerolling through one's rotation -- just not every fight.
The problem with that is I hate the current trend in MMORPGs where it's nearly impossible to simply walk into a dungeon or a raid and down a boss without having read a strategy or watched a youtube video so players know where to stand, when to spread, when to stack, when to interrupt, what to kite, etc.
Could you elaborate more on this? Using words like Relax and Challenge are very context-sensitive.
For example, playing an FPS can be challenging as you have to be aware of your surroundings in order to survive / not be caught in cross-fire. On the other hand, the control scheme for an FPS is incredibly relaxing (from a comfort perspective), more so if you're using a gamepad/controller.
With MMO's, those which require you to effectively manage your UI can be challenging in terms of micromanagement. However, if you find a certain combination of skills and create a routine, it's incredibly relaxing / easy as you aren't paying attention to the UI as much.
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In answer to your question though; the way you play the game (the controls) should be relaxing, but the gameplay/opposition challenging.
What if i play for a challenge and by being challenged i become relaxed?
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Both. Farming is low stress,easy combat, moderate reward. On my own level, dungeons should take effort and yield better reward / progression.
It's part of the inherent problems with class design and attempts to make your game solo-able from beginning to end.
In most games, healer-types don't put out a lot of DPS, and DPS-types are megabombs. In order to make everything soloable, it has to be designed for the most gimp damage output, the weakest combat-capable archetype.
It's pretty much impossible to design open world content that's equally soloable by the weaker toons without making it all-too-easy for the combat monster toons.
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Isn't this the root of the problem? Shouldn't an RPG involve a bit more than combat for progression? I'd say in an ideal MMORPG, combat should happen at most 20-30% of the time. Combat should be an option, not a necessity. Instead of having mindless grindy combat 99% of the time, they could have a fewer, more intense battles.
I was beginning to type a response when I read this, which is probably more eloquent than what I would have written. Give me fewer instances of combat occurrence, with an emphasis on challenge, and far more activities OTHER THAN kill shit for hours on end with minimal input or thought required. I would be pleased with this.
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I think I'm somewhere in the middle. Some days I like a challenge, other days I am too brain-dead to bother. What I do not like is artificially difficult combat; Combat that is difficult only for the sake of being difficult. I do not like having to memorize a boss strategy or jump through hoops to accomplish things. I like the organization to be difficult moreso than the mechanics. I do not like fights where if one person screws up, the entire thing is hopeless. Ideally I would prefer PvP over PvE for challenging mechanics. Overall, combat is a very small part of why I enjoy Online RPGs and I believe it is highly overrated at present.
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Challenge to me simply means that you have to out think a situation. A player has to become a tactician, doesn't matter on the class, each class will be tactiful in their own way. And how is this done? The combat mechanics are a separate entity of the class mechanics in which the class mechanics complement the combat mechanics. Why? Because I am trying to attempt to create a more brilliant AI system where a player and/or a mob will adapt to strategy. This does not mean it's twitched based combat, because players may have a faster reaction as opposed to other players.
Here's an example. If a player melee character fights a kolbold, more than likely based on thier intelligence, and militaristic training that creature would more than likely not adapt or detect a strategy of a player. If a melee character fights a orc general, then more than likely that character will be challenged immensenly because that orc general has a very high intelligent and militaristic modifiers in order to adapt and detect your strategy.
In your last comment, I do agree 100% with that. Controls should be fluid and not tedious. With the complex designs I have, I will provide multiple control styles for players. I will only allow a player to have up to one hot bar with 20 abilities on it. I feelas if limiting the hot bar would provide a more strategic challenge. A player can make hot bar sets in which can be loaded for situational purposes.
I hope that answers your question.
"this".
Players should have the chance to think and adapt.
Not just memorize encounters.
As for combat, I'm i the middle. Sometimes I want it to be challenging and sometimes I like to relax in the movements of the character.
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