Four players is great. Should make it easier to get a group together. Plus you can flesh out holes in the PVE group content with companions if you need to.
It doesn seem a rather odd choice. I feel for the people who only play dps with such a low number. However. like others said it is probably almsot all soloable anyways. I miss AC's groups they went up to 8 or maybe it was 9 not sure anymore, but u met lots of nice people that way.
4 man seems a bit small but it should be ok as long as the content is balanced around the 4 man party.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
too me 4 man is fine. for people that think 4 man isnt enough and its going to leave people out of groups, think of how much easier it will be to form a group. if u fill one group up it should be pretty easy to fill another. whereas if u need lotsa people to fill one group u may be able to get one going but the second may be missing out on a person or 2. u can slice it either way u want but imo its always easier to get a group going the fewer players req'd. anyone remember 40 man raids?
I think its possible to have meaningful "hardcore" content that doesn't require a "horde" of people to accomplish...
I just have little faith ToR can accomplish that... but I do wish they can so here's to hoping xD
I think he is talking about the lack of group content that it makes it look like.
I'm pretty ignorant on all the content there is available, but surely I hope there is something for bigger groups to do, even if it is just some chaotic light vs dark PvP (like the epic Star Wars battles).
Can't say my lone wolf side isn't happy though, as it seems PvE content will be pretty much small groups only.
[quote][i]Originally posted by artemisentr4[/i] [b]It will be intersting to see how this plays out for the entire game. Flashpoints is the place where the 4 will matter the most. Those are dungeon instances that can take hours and should require teamwork. And there are not that many yet. Only 5 per side for sure. The rest of the content is a combo of open world and short or small story instances. Not a lot of teamwork realy, except for the group story chains. From what we have seen so far. Questing in the open world requires you to go to an open area and kill x as a bonus quest. Then find the opening to your story area and enter solo or with your group. So if you have to, you could have two groups going to the same area, But each group would enter the final stage of the story quest in their own instance. Complete that part and then exit back out to the open world with everyone. It is not the same as larger groups. But it at least will allow you to play with your friends for most of the quest. Just not the story part. Also, there are heroic areas, but two groups in that area may cause problems with who gets credit for kills. Maybe they will allow raids to all get credit for heroic areas? With the many different types of quests, we will have to see it work before we can judge. There are the class quests, open world quests, open world group story quests, heroic areas and flashpoints. The group size of 4 will make it easier on many, but more difficult if you have a large group of firends. At least you will be on vent and can BS even if you aren't in the same area. [/b][/quote]
So can you create a raid group for the content I highlighted?
That is still to be determined. It anything, I would imagine that open world bonus quests and or heroic areas may allow for raids to get credit. But I have no clue.
It may end up that multiple groups will just have to kill different mobs in the same area to get credit. So you can quest in the same area, but not as a raid.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
Creating a group with four players is much easier I would imagine. I can understand why people may be concerned, but when you have a 4 player group from the start...it won't be something that affects anything. The game is designed around 4 players. I think this is just one of those things you will have to see to fully grasp.
I think its possible to have meaningful "hardcore" content that doesn't require a "horde" of people to accomplish...
I just have little faith ToR can accomplish that... but I do wish they can so here's to hoping xD
I think he is talking about the lack of group content that it makes it look like.
I'm pretty ignorant on all the content there is available, but surely I hope there is something for bigger groups to do, even if it is just some chaotic light vs dark PvP (like the epic Star Wars battles).
Can't say my lone wolf side isn't happy though, as it seems PvE content will be pretty much small groups only.
So far we know theres open area lakes (to be defined what are in them beyond that you simply can PvP) there are world bosses which are designed for groups bigger then 4, right now for bigger then 4 thats about all i think that is required, you can however do heroics, group quests with multigroups just expect them to be easier then if you did them with just one group. Really anything beyond the personal story and the flashpoints can be done with more then 1 group.
But for right now content that is designed for mutli groups are, raids, world bosses and Open world PvP (and no i don't mean the PvP server )
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Limiting the group size to four allows maximum flexibility and minimum hassle. The smaller the group, the less acute the dps/tank/healer population imbalance becomes and the easier it is for dps to find groups. Furthermore, in SWTOR you can bring your companion into a flashpoint with you. So if it's just you and a buddy, hypothetically you could still run the instance. That's a pretty powerful form of flexibility, because what it really means is that there is a sliding difficulty scale and a sliding party size: 2, 3 or 4 players. Furthermore, the 4-person group size combined with the 4-class paradigm means less contention over loot that drops in the instance.
All in all, from where I'm sitting, the combination of these systems plus the group size is a win.
Limiting the group size to four allows maximum flexibility and minimum hassle. The smaller the group, the less acute the dps/tank/healer population imbalance becomes and the easier it is for dps to find groups. Furthermore, in SWTOR you can bring your companion into a flashpoint with you. So if it's just you and a buddy, hypothetically you could still run the instance. That's a pretty powerful form of flexibility, because what it really means is that there is a sliding difficulty scale and a sliding party size: 2, 3 or 4 players. Furthermore, the 4-person group size combined with the 4-class paradigm means less contention over loot that drops in the instance.
All in all, from where I'm sitting, the combination of these systems plus the group size is a win.
If there is a shortage of tanks and healers, and not as many DPS get into the groups because of the smaller group-size, not forgetting companions taking up space, wouldn't that make it harder for DPS to find groups?
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Limiting the group size to four allows maximum flexibility and minimum hassle. The smaller the group, the less acute the dps/tank/healer population imbalance becomes and the easier it is for dps to find groups. Furthermore, in SWTOR you can bring your companion into a flashpoint with you. So if it's just you and a buddy, hypothetically you could still run the instance. That's a pretty powerful form of flexibility, because what it really means is that there is a sliding difficulty scale and a sliding party size: 2, 3 or 4 players. Furthermore, the 4-person group size combined with the 4-class paradigm means less contention over loot that drops in the instance.
All in all, from where I'm sitting, the combination of these systems plus the group size is a win.
If there is a shortage of tanks and healers, and not as many DPS get into the groups beause of the smaller group-size, not forgetting companions taking up space, wouldn't that make it harder for DPS to find groups?
yes it would make it harder. you'd still have one tank and one healer. everything else is dps, so now groups only have room for two dps instead of 3. not to mention he same issue of people not wanting to make tanks and healers, bad tanks and healers and tanks/healers only running with guilds/friends....it's going to be just as hard if not worse for dps to get a group in the game.
Group limits in MMORPG actually worry me regardless which game.
I can understand there has to be a minimum amount of players in a group you might need for certain flashpoints/content.
But shouldn't MMORPG's have their content scale to the amount of groupmembers?
I understand group limits in FPS or regular multiplayer games, but not sure why it is so accepted by many in this genre?
About SW:ToR as I do not know, is this common thru all the game? meaning are you able to group with more people outside of flashpoints? if so is the 4 limit set on that aswell?
Group limits in MMORPG actually worry me regardless which game.
I can understand there has to be a minimum amount of players in a group you might need for certain flashpoints/content.
But shouldn't MMORPG's have their content scale to the amount of groupmembers?
I understand group limits in FPS or regular multiplayer games, but not sure why it is so accepted by many in this genre?
About SW:ToR as I do not know, is this common thru all the game? meaning are you able to group with more people outside of flashpoints? if so is the 4 limit set on that aswell?
standard group size is 4 whether you are in a flashpoint or out in the open world. you could form a raid group in the open world but it is unknown how that would work with killing mobs or questing. only example for using a raid group in the open world has been in regards to world bosses.
I just feel bad for the 7/8ths of the population that refuse to do anything but DPS. Smaller groups = less tanks and healers for all of those people
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Its the same as any MMO, there will always be more DPS players than Tanks and Healers, but after the initial weeks, many DPS will be rolling another that is Tanks and Healers. There are also alot of Healers and Tanks that end up rolling Dps because they can't get parties, since there is only a need for one Tank and One healers, but everyone else can be dps.
So in any party configuration there will always be more Dps than tanks and healers. You might get two healers but then you might feel there is too much heals, you really can never have too many dps.
In regards to party sizes, 4 is not too small or too large, its perfect in what Bioware wants to do, they can't know if you only have 3 friends or 5 friends or 6 friends. You play with what was designed, don't try to change a game to suit just you.
They are trying to create a game that suits everyone.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
[quote][i]Originally posted by Lucioon[/i] [b]Its the same as any MMO, there will always be more DPS players than Tanks and Healers, but after the initial weeks, many DPS will be rolling another that is Tanks and Healers. There are also alot of Healers and Tanks that end up rolling Dps because they can't get parties, since there is only a need for one Tank and One healers, but everyone else can be dps. So in any party configuration there will always be more Dps than tanks and healers. You might get two healers but then you might feel there is too much heals, you really can never have too many dps. In regards to party sizes, 4 is not too small or too large, its perfect in what Bioware wants to do, they can't know if you only have 3 friends or 5 friends or 6 friends. You play with what was designed, don't try to change a game to suit just you. They are trying to create a game that suits everyone. [/b][/quote]
I don't even know how to respond to the section of your quote I highlighted.
So why can't they allow bigger groups then and call them sub-raids or something? Just allow 5-7 in same group using a different tool ( /invitesubraid Lucioon ).
Limiting the group size to four allows maximum flexibility and minimum hassle. The smaller the group, the less acute the dps/tank/healer population imbalance becomes and the easier it is for dps to find groups. Furthermore, in SWTOR you can bring your companion into a flashpoint with you. So if it's just you and a buddy, hypothetically you could still run the instance. That's a pretty powerful form of flexibility, because what it really means is that there is a sliding difficulty scale and a sliding party size: 2, 3 or 4 players. Furthermore, the 4-person group size combined with the 4-class paradigm means less contention over loot that drops in the instance.
All in all, from where I'm sitting, the combination of these systems plus the group size is a win.
If there is a shortage of tanks and healers, and not as many DPS get into the groups because of the smaller group-size, not forgetting companions taking up space, wouldn't that make it harder for DPS to find groups?
You can remove the companons from group. I am quite sure you can summon and un summon them whenever you want to make space in group.
I was a skeptic because I liked 5-6 man groups, but playing Taral V at PaxEast really changed my mind. With a slighly smaller group you have less speciality roles. In larger groups you find your gameplay limited, you spam the same skills over and over. Playing as a healer in Taral V, I wasnt just healing, I had to CC, I had to do a little DPS, and most all of the skills on my bar were used. I was definitely NOT a healbot.
Now granted the tank had to tank, no variety for him, but I wasnt a heal bot, the Consular had times he had to help heal, and the Jedi Knight had to do some off-tanking as well as DPS. I'm not saying that everyone is a hybrid, what I am saying is that if a skill is on your hot bar, odds are you are going to use it, and that made it a much more enjoyable, and complete feeling to playing my character. No idea if that is representative of the rest of the game, but it was a pretty damn good feeling.
Originally posted by Baikal 4 person groups work.I was a skeptic because I liked 5-6 man groups, but playing Taral V at PaxEast really changed my mind. With a slighly smaller group you have less speciality roles. In larger groups you find your gameplay limited, you spam the same skills over and over. Playing as a healer in Taral V, I wasnt just healing, I had to CC, I had to do a little DPS, and most all of the skills on my bar were used. I was definitely NOT a healbot.Now granted the tank had to tank, no variety for him, but I wasnt a heal bot, the Consular had times he had to help heal, and the Jedi Knight had to do some off-tanking as well as DPS. I'm not saying that everyone is a hybrid, what I am saying is that if a skill is on your hot bar, odds are you are going to use it, and that made it a much more enjoyable, and complete feeling to playing my character. No idea if that is representative of the rest of the game, but it was a pretty damn good feeling.
Not that it's bad, but it does sound like you make everyone except for the Tank out to be a hybrid. Anyway, I think the class mixes will be fine, and I think that the four man group is viable, star-warsy, and great.
I now think that people will quickly become used to filling 4-man groups.
But, I still want scaling & bigger groups (not multiple groups compounded in a raid). The reason why they didn't is probably because they could not fit more than 4 characters in the dialogue scenes, but it would be nice if it were more flexible.
Comments
Four players is great. Should make it easier to get a group together. Plus you can flesh out holes in the PVE group content with companions if you need to.
ehh.. thats a bit short sighted..
I think its possible to have meaningful "hardcore" content that doesn't require a "horde" of people to accomplish...
I just have little faith ToR can accomplish that... but I do wish they can so here's to hoping xD
It doesn seem a rather odd choice. I feel for the people who only play dps with such a low number. However. like others said it is probably almsot all soloable anyways. I miss AC's groups they went up to 8 or maybe it was 9 not sure anymore, but u met lots of nice people that way.
4 man seems a bit small but it should be ok as long as the content is balanced around the 4 man party.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
too me 4 man is fine. for people that think 4 man isnt enough and its going to leave people out of groups, think of how much easier it will be to form a group. if u fill one group up it should be pretty easy to fill another. whereas if u need lotsa people to fill one group u may be able to get one going but the second may be missing out on a person or 2. u can slice it either way u want but imo its always easier to get a group going the fewer players req'd. anyone remember 40 man raids?
I think he is talking about the lack of group content that it makes it look like.
I'm pretty ignorant on all the content there is available, but surely I hope there is something for bigger groups to do, even if it is just some chaotic light vs dark PvP (like the epic Star Wars battles).
Can't say my lone wolf side isn't happy though, as it seems PvE content will be pretty much small groups only.
Can't make everyone happy.
That is still to be determined. It anything, I would imagine that open world bonus quests and or heroic areas may allow for raids to get credit. But I have no clue.
It may end up that multiple groups will just have to kill different mobs in the same area to get credit. So you can quest in the same area, but not as a raid.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
Wow that's pretty small !! Anyone remember the groups in Dark age of Camelot 8 players man it was epic!! Long live the MMO community bahah
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Creating a group with four players is much easier I would imagine. I can understand why people may be concerned, but when you have a 4 player group from the start...it won't be something that affects anything. The game is designed around 4 players. I think this is just one of those things you will have to see to fully grasp.
You know what else is small?
If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. - Carl Sagan
So far we know theres open area lakes (to be defined what are in them beyond that you simply can PvP) there are world bosses which are designed for groups bigger then 4, right now for bigger then 4 thats about all i think that is required, you can however do heroics, group quests with multigroups just expect them to be easier then if you did them with just one group. Really anything beyond the personal story and the flashpoints can be done with more then 1 group.
But for right now content that is designed for mutli groups are, raids, world bosses and Open world PvP (and no i don't mean the PvP server
)
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Limiting the group size to four allows maximum flexibility and minimum hassle. The smaller the group, the less acute the dps/tank/healer population imbalance becomes and the easier it is for dps to find groups. Furthermore, in SWTOR you can bring your companion into a flashpoint with you. So if it's just you and a buddy, hypothetically you could still run the instance. That's a pretty powerful form of flexibility, because what it really means is that there is a sliding difficulty scale and a sliding party size: 2, 3 or 4 players. Furthermore, the 4-person group size combined with the 4-class paradigm means less contention over loot that drops in the instance.
All in all, from where I'm sitting, the combination of these systems plus the group size is a win.
Has you worried? C'mon man.
If anything, I love smaller groups. I think 4 fits the game well. Remember, raids and such won't be this small ,so why the fuss?
If there is a shortage of tanks and healers, and not as many DPS get into the groups because of the smaller group-size, not forgetting companions taking up space, wouldn't that make it harder for DPS to find groups?
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
yes it would make it harder. you'd still have one tank and one healer. everything else is dps, so now groups only have room for two dps instead of 3. not to mention he same issue of people not wanting to make tanks and healers, bad tanks and healers and tanks/healers only running with guilds/friends....it's going to be just as hard if not worse for dps to get a group in the game.
Group limits in MMORPG actually worry me regardless which game.
I can understand there has to be a minimum amount of players in a group you might need for certain flashpoints/content.
But shouldn't MMORPG's have their content scale to the amount of groupmembers?
I understand group limits in FPS or regular multiplayer games, but not sure why it is so accepted by many in this genre?
About SW:ToR as I do not know, is this common thru all the game? meaning are you able to group with more people outside of flashpoints? if so is the 4 limit set on that aswell?
standard group size is 4 whether you are in a flashpoint or out in the open world. you could form a raid group in the open world but it is unknown how that would work with killing mobs or questing. only example for using a raid group in the open world has been in regards to world bosses.
I just feel bad for the 7/8ths of the population that refuse to do anything but DPS. Smaller groups = less tanks and healers for all of those people
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Its the same as any MMO, there will always be more DPS players than Tanks and Healers, but after the initial weeks, many DPS will be rolling another that is Tanks and Healers. There are also alot of Healers and Tanks that end up rolling Dps because they can't get parties, since there is only a need for one Tank and One healers, but everyone else can be dps.
So in any party configuration there will always be more Dps than tanks and healers. You might get two healers but then you might feel there is too much heals, you really can never have too many dps.
In regards to party sizes, 4 is not too small or too large, its perfect in what Bioware wants to do, they can't know if you only have 3 friends or 5 friends or 6 friends. You play with what was designed, don't try to change a game to suit just you.
They are trying to create a game that suits everyone.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
[quote][i]Originally posted by Lucioon[/i] [b]Its the same as any MMO, there will always be more DPS players than Tanks and Healers, but after the initial weeks, many DPS will be rolling another that is Tanks and Healers. There are also alot of Healers and Tanks that end up rolling Dps because they can't get parties, since there is only a need for one Tank and One healers, but everyone else can be dps. So in any party configuration there will always be more Dps than tanks and healers. You might get two healers but then you might feel there is too much heals, you really can never have too many dps. In regards to party sizes, 4 is not too small or too large, its perfect in what Bioware wants to do, they can't know if you only have 3 friends or 5 friends or 6 friends. You play with what was designed, don't try to change a game to suit just you. They are trying to create a game that suits everyone. [/b][/quote]
I don't even know how to respond to the section of your quote I highlighted.
So why can't they allow bigger groups then and call them sub-raids or something? Just allow 5-7 in same group using a different tool ( /invitesubraid Lucioon ).
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
You can remove the companons from group. I am quite sure you can summon and un summon them whenever you want to make space in group.
Don't worry. Be happy!
4 person groups work.
I was a skeptic because I liked 5-6 man groups, but playing Taral V at PaxEast really changed my mind. With a slighly smaller group you have less speciality roles. In larger groups you find your gameplay limited, you spam the same skills over and over. Playing as a healer in Taral V, I wasnt just healing, I had to CC, I had to do a little DPS, and most all of the skills on my bar were used. I was definitely NOT a healbot.
Now granted the tank had to tank, no variety for him, but I wasnt a heal bot, the Consular had times he had to help heal, and the Jedi Knight had to do some off-tanking as well as DPS. I'm not saying that everyone is a hybrid, what I am saying is that if a skill is on your hot bar, odds are you are going to use it, and that made it a much more enjoyable, and complete feeling to playing my character. No idea if that is representative of the rest of the game, but it was a pretty damn good feeling.
Not that it's bad, but it does sound like you make everyone except for the Tank out to be a hybrid. Anyway, I think the class mixes will be fine, and I think that the four man group is viable, star-warsy, and great.
I now think that people will quickly become used to filling 4-man groups.
But, I still want scaling & bigger groups (not multiple groups compounded in a raid). The reason why they didn't is probably because they could not fit more than 4 characters in the dialogue scenes, but it would be nice if it were more flexible.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011