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Where's the sandbox
Elesdee
Member UncommonPosts: 44
Specificaly where is UO 2? I just don't understand why some one hasn't capitalized on this yet. Just take UO pre trommel (or pre EQ release however you wanna call it) update the graphics and slap a monthly fee on it. UO was not gear dependant, it wasnt about the raiding, it wasnt even about the leveling. It was about signing on and doing whatever you wanted because you had fun doing it. Mining, pvp, exploration, housing it had it all. Hell some of my favorite times playing that game involved running around looking for sheep so I could get wool to make bandages. Todays mmo involves hitting max level so you can raid for better gear just so you can raid the same monster with better gear. Its not even a game its just an illusion that you are progressing. How is getting new raid gear progression if you use it to fight the same monsters again?
Factions, town politics, cool monsters that you fought because it was just pretty fun to do. Runnin around in death robes feeding horses apples so someone can kill you, loot all your items, kill your horse and NOT completely throw you into a rage because you didnt really lose anything. You had 20 other katanas in your house you had plenty of potions and bandages it wasnt a big deal. The worst part was buying another horse. The game wasnt about cool items or even looking cool. It was a big chat room that you could run around in, pvp if you want just so peole knew you were good, not so you could get better stuff. You could get a boat and go treasure hunting, visit dungeons, mark runes to cool locations and houses so you could share them with your friends. I dunno, im expecting alot of hate on this and whatever go for it, I just really dont see why someone hasnt capitalized on this and made a blatent rip off of old school UO under the same or different name who cares just do it. Look at all the free to play games out there, youre telling me with the beautiful art teams they have makign a game for free someone cant just make a free or paid sandbox with no end game, no low game, no mid game, just GAME?
kinda making me want to pursue a degree in game creation
Comments
Probably cause UO never had more than 250k subscribers?
In an age where a fairly polished good game gets 1M subs (Rift), don't see why you would make it.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
when UO was at its peak a majority of the gaming population was using 56k and mmorpgs had no hype behing them, not to mention the stigma of being a gamer wasn't being cool as it is today in the xbox generation. You can't compare the subscription rates of UO to Rift simply because of the time difference. Core mechanics is what im trying to get across, take the core mechanics of UO and put them in the rift world. I find it hard to believe it couldnt work when all i read on here and in games themselves people crying about the increase of WoW clones and the lack of IP
It's pretty ridiculous that this hasn't been done yet, I would agree with the OP. Especially now, in a time when the MMO market is literally made up of identical products, don't any investors anywhere think it would be a worthy risk to create something to cater to the rest of the audience that isn't happy playing themeparks? The numbers are there to make it work.
My only conclusions have been that developers and their employers are pretty lazy individuals, that it's easier to recreate something that's been done countless times before than have original ideas, and that suits or investors are completely, one hundred percent in control of everything. Even then, it's baffling to me. They can't all be this way.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
The big issue is that the 'sandbox' games (and its mechanics) don't have a large subscriber base.
EVE is the largest sandbox game and that only has 350k - 400k.
It has its niche and followers but it pales in sub numbers compared to themepark ones.
I am a numbers kind of guy and the numbers just do not add up.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
I'd die for a another UO with 3 d graphics.
as for numbers rather have 300.000 dedicated ones instead of 900.000 idiots.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
All of the devs got confused and thought it was just a place to pee.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Where's the sandbox?
Cancelled with closed servers or dead in the water. Because nobody plays them.
FFA full loot sucks, no direction sucks, grinding sucks, not a single one has been successful enough to grab any market share. "But... but... nobody's done it right, or had the budget!!" Yeah... don't you think there's a reason for that?
Rather have 300,000 dedicated subs than 900,000 idiots huh? This is why you'll never be a CEO. Do the math:
300,000 X $15 = $4,500,000 per month
900,000 X $15 = $13,500,000 per month
Which do you think companies that are concerned about pure profit care about?
I do agree that a UO2 with 3D graphics would be awsome if it were made like UO was, but as long as the casual gamers make up the majority of the gaming community, companies will not move in that direction. They are in business to make money and keep the stockholders happy. It seems the businessmen have forgotten that if they keep their customers happy, they'll keep their stockholders happy as well. All you can do is talk with your wallet... /shrug
As someone who invests in shares, hell no!
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
It is very strange isn't it.
Whilst regular games (offline RPG's etc) seem to be leaning more towards open world (Fallout, GTA, and the rest)... MMORPG's, which were first built FOR THIS REASON (persistant world thousands of players, freedom) are becoming more closed up and restricted.
It baffles me too!
So many people are longing for UO's open, unrestricted game mechanics on a modern client with good gameplay and graphics, but developers can't seem to get it right. There's Darkfall, which is a very good game, but it's more of a giant fantasy MMOFPS with RPG elements, than an RPG (I do love it though).
Someone needs to do it again, forget about server types (PvP server, PvE server... Fuck off) many types of players need to be living together in the same world. Their should be penalty for dying, and reward for the killer, but their needs to be GOOD enough consequences of killing people in certain parts of the game world.
I'm hoping (REALLY hoping!) that ArcheAge can pull this off, but I'm not holding my breath too much, because I've been dissapointed so many times.
_________
Currently playing: Black Desert Korea (Waiting for EU)
Always hating on instances in MMOs! Open worlds, open PvP, territory control and housing please. More persistence, more fun.
Alright people, being a Ultima Online shard owner myself, I have to say I Love this game, and always will.
The mechanics are perfect, you can use reagents to craft potions, use them in combat, be killed, and Fully looted (all 50 of your potions individualy)
This makes for Good PVP because its more realistic, and it gives a sence of Danger in the game. People that play EQ/WOW style games dont have any idea how hard their lives would be if they got fully looted. lol.
Players now-a-days have no concept of what a Real Dungeons and Dragons based world is truley like, and DDO is a SAD example.
Make MMORPGs More brutal, more like UO, more like Diablo, Better Graphics, Custom Housing, Full-Loot-PVP, and people Will play it. I garentee it.
I have been on UO for about 15 years, and I have to say its STILL the BEST MMORPG on the market. Period.
OH, and nothing beats running around an entire server finding out that EVERYONE hates you, and is trying to kill you! loll
The reputation, Criminal, Murderer System in UO is the BEST.
*rides off on a llama*
EVE is space. EVE is "you are a ship"... SCFI... classic fantasy sandbox would do much better.
Isn't Darkfall a fantasy sandbox game? Ryzom?
To say 'sandbox' games have more people willing to pay than themepark games is factually false at the moment.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Minecraft - 3,010,836 sold copies
Terraria - 630,000 in a relative short amount of time
Regardless if it's mainstream or the main market. Sandbox is definitely not niche anymore.
None of those are MMO's where you need to share the experience with large amounts of others.
If you add crowds of others your game has to change dramatically, that's even true for "themepark" MMO's.
Fact is that Jpnz is right in that that type of online game isn't popular. Even free-to-play linear games attract more people.
The question is what the reason for that is. I think we can start with the lack of quality and content those games usually release with and start thinking about how to make them better from there.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
We've had sandbox games before themeparks actually. I don't recall D&D being themepark but in the context of this thread, that's an irrevelant point.
In a strictly MMO world, the numbers don't add up. They are smaller in sub numbers than themeparks by a large margin.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
lol mincraft
I think the problem with the new sandbox games are, they are too big.. you start off in a empty city.. no life no nothing.. only some npc's. you have to play days before you see another player.. the good thing about UO was you started in he capital where there always was life..
Another thing I see as a problem is either there is no pvp or pvp where you get killed while using your bank box.. UO had it right.. cityies were safe.. (I remember pk hunting
lot of fun 
)
those who make sandbox games are trying too hard.. they should focus on the basic off the games instead of 10000000 different skills... its just stupid...
But the market only thinks of the 13 yearr old gamer and his 10000000000 other friends.. not us oldies..
Bla bla blabla
it's a different generation, numbers won't jive between the two,
i could just as easily say "UO had 97% of the MMO playerbase"
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins
it's called mincraft
Rift didn't get 1 million subs.
As soon as Designers realize the simple equation 'Sandbox' != 'FFA PVP' you'll see some very successfull sandbox games. This Idea that the vast majority of gamers want Themepark games is seriously flawed. The issue isn't one of Sandbox vs. Themepark it's more PVE vs. PVP. Most players are primarily PVE'ers that like to PVP on occaision. One thing they don't want is their PVE disrupted by spontaneous PVP.
I like FFA PVP so don't get me wrong but I also freely admit it's a very niche market. As long as Sandbox games insist on implementing FFA PVP they will always be niche. It's the PVP that holds them back and not the sandbox elements.
Edit: This is also why some of the most popular single player games are open world sandboxes. People want the sandbox elements minus the PVP. In a single player game you don't have PVP to worry about.
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
You can't just reject someone's opinion, and pass yours as a paradigm of how games are supposed to be designed.
Sandbox MMO's are clearly in the minority of gamer's interest, but that can be easily said because their potential hasn't been fully explored. Take World of Warcraft (which was a complete anomally by the way) out of the MMO scene, and you have a litter of themepark games that're in the same subscription numbers bracket as other Sandbox games. UO and Eve are pretty old games. That there's thousands upon thousands of players following both is incredibly impressive and shows that there's still room in the market for this type of game to expand.
Personally, I hate the current approach to themepark MMO's many developers have taken. "Me-too" games are far too common, and I'm plain tired of running into that extremely dated questing and progression system. The genre needs a themepark 2.0 game, as well as a sandbox 2.0 game to really push it forward.
It is all about demand. When there will be a market to sustain a AAA Sandbox MMO you will see games like UO2. However i hardly doubt you will ever get a good quality sandbox title. But there are very good chances of getting a sandbox / themepark hybrid.
the time of sandbox is over. we would be disappointed of a second UO as we are from the famous first summer-festival that we re-visit years later, seeing what commerzialisation has made of it. mmo gamers are the most backwards oriented beeings i know of. mmo's time is over.